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interests / alt.politics / Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

SubjectAuthor
* The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyNoBody
+* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyDavid Hartung
|+- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyRudy Canoza
|+* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energySiri Cruise
||`- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyNoBody
|`* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyMitchell Holman
| `* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyDavid Hartung
|  +* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyMitchell Holman
|  |+- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBlue Lives Matter
|  |`* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyDavid Hartung
|  | `- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyRudy Canoza
|  `* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energySiri Cruise
|   +* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBlue Lives Matter
|   |`* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyDavid Hartung
|   | +* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energySiri Cruise
|   | |`- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBlue Lives Matter
|   | +- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBlue Lives Matter
|   | `- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBeamMeUpScotty
|   `* Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyDavid Hartung
|    +- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energySiri Cruise
|    `- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyBeamMeUpScotty
`- Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energyNoBody

1
The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<5muq6h5eob46thdkhv95kmphkc1vqme64a@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18427&group=alt.politics#18427

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From: NoB...@nowhere.com (NoBody)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:08:31 -0400
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 by: NoBody - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:08 UTC

So what do we do now libs?

"During the research it was noted that previous studies have
significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
power grid.

The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
today.

The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "

https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-manufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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 by: David Hartung - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:48 UTC

On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
> So what do we do now libs?
>
> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
> power grid.
>
> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
> today.
>
> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>
> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-manufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/

I was afraid that this might be the case:

[...]
During the research it was noted that previous studies have
significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
power grid.

The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build even
one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and stationary
power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is today.

The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time the
future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in capacity
than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is a
consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy Returned on
Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel systems using oil,
gas, or coal as a feedstock.
[...]

So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<3PfbK.5965$Awz.2761@fx03.iad>

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 by: Rudy Canoza - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:08 UTC

On 4/30/2022 11:48 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>> So what do we do now libs?
>>
>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>> power grid.
>>
>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>> today.
>>
>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>
>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-manufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>
>
> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>
> [...]
> During the research it was noted that previous studies have significantly
> underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and supported with
> alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in turn produces a lower
> estimate of the size of the required electrical power grid.
>
> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV) including
> different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not enough minerals in the
> currently reported global reserves to build even one generation of batteries for
> all electric vehicles and stationary power storage, in the global industrial
> ecosystem as it is today.
>
> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will require more
> energy than ever consumed before while at the same time the future non-fossil
> fuel energy system may well be smaller in capacity than the current fossil fuel
> supported energy system. This is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having
> a lower Energy Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
> [...]
>
> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?

They already are.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<chine.bleu-868451.12441630042022@reader.eternal-september.org>

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From: chine.b...@yahoo.com (Siri Cruise)
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Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
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 by: Siri Cruise - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:44 UTC

In article <26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build even
> one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and stationary
> power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is today.

Too bad there aren't alternatives like fuel cells. It's
heartenning to see that Dixie can't-do attitude.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<XnsAE89D50C89CEAnoemailcomcastnet@216.166.97.131>

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Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
From: noem...@verizon.net (Mitchell Holman)
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 by: Mitchell Holman - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:03 UTC

David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:

> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>> So what do we do now libs?
>>
>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which
>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>> electrical power grid.
>>
>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>> today.
>>
>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>
>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-
>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-man
>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>
> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>
> [...]
> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
> power grid.
>
> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
> today.
>
> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
> [...]
>
> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>

And continued subserviance to our
Saudi overlords is?

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>

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 by: David Hartung - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:29 UTC

On 4/30/22 21:03, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>>> So what do we do now libs?
>>>
>>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which
>>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>>> electrical power grid.
>>>
>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>>> today.
>>>
>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>>
>>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-
>>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-man
>>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>
>> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>>
>> [...]
>> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>> power grid.
>>
>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>> today.
>>
>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
>> [...]
>>
>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>
>
>
> And continued subserviance to our
> Saudi overlords is?

Only because the Democrats make it so.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<XnsAE89DA856C5ABnoemailcomcastnet@216.166.97.131>

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Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
From: noem...@verizon.net (Mitchell Holman)
References: <5muq6h5eob46thdkhv95kmphkc1vqme64a@4ax.com> <26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <XnsAE89D50C89CEAnoemailcomcastnet@216.166.97.131> <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>
Organization: TDSOTF
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 by: Mitchell Holman - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:35 UTC

David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-
LednZ2d@giganews.com:

> On 4/30/22 21:03, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>>>> So what do we do now libs?
>>>>
>>>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>>>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles
which
>>>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>>>> electrical power grid.
>>>>
>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it
is
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>>>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>>>
>>>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-
global-
>>>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-
man
>>>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>>
>>> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
and
>>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>>> power grid.
>>>
>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>>> today.
>>>
>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
is
>>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>
>>
>>
>> And continued subserviance to our
>> Saudi overlords is?
>
> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>

Democrats want to make America
more dependent on Saudi oil?

Come again?

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<chine.bleu-BF998A.19492130042022@reader.eternal-september.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18437&group=alt.politics#18437

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From: chine.b...@yahoo.com (Siri Cruise)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:49:21 -0700
Organization: Pseudochaotic.
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X-Patriot: Owe Canukistan!
X-Plain: Mayonnaise on white bread.
X-Politico: Vote early! Vote often!
 by: Siri Cruise - Sun, 1 May 2022 02:49 UTC

In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
> >>
> >
> >
> > And continued subserviance to our
> > Saudi overlords is?
>
> Only because the Democrats make it so.

Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.

And you're still an idiot.

Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
to water and electricity. No battery needed.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<mchs6h9eciovaga34ejt5m5m2llb0a16t8@4ax.com>

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From: Iron_Wh...@Systemic_Patriotism.KMA (Blue Lives Matter)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 04:33:33 -0400
Organization: Laughing at liberals wearing masks
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 by: Blue Lives Matter - Sun, 1 May 2022 08:33 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:35:56 -0500, Mitchell Holman
<noemail@verizon.net> wrote:

>David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-
>LednZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 4/30/22 21:03, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>>>>> So what do we do now libs?
>>>>>
>>>>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>>>>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles
>which
>>>>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>>>>> electrical power grid.
>>>>>
>>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it
>is
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>>>>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-
>global-
>>>>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-
>man
>>>>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>>>
>>>> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>and
>>>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>>>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>>>> power grid.
>>>>
>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>is
>>>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And continued subserviance to our
>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>
>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>
>
>
> Democrats want to make America
>more dependent on Saudi oil?
>
> Come again?
>

Biden called the Saudis to ask for more oil and they wouldn't answer
the phone.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<quhs6h1c4b5h0k267c8616cvli8nks67cn@4ax.com>

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From: Iron_Wh...@Systemic_Patriotism.KMA (Blue Lives Matter)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 04:42:37 -0400
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 by: Blue Lives Matter - Sun, 1 May 2022 08:42 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:49:21 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > And continued subserviance to our
>> > Saudi overlords is?
>>
>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>
>Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>
>And you're still an idiot.
>
>Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>to water and electricity. No battery needed.

Bomb on wheels...

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<gKadndYKmONryvP_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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 by: David Hartung - Sun, 1 May 2022 09:50 UTC

On 4/30/22 21:35, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-
> LednZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 4/30/22 21:03, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>>>>> So what do we do now libs?
>>>>>
>>>>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>>>>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles
> which
>>>>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>>>>> electrical power grid.
>>>>>
>>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it
> is
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>>>>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-
> global-
>>>>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-
> man
>>>>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>>>
>>>> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
> and
>>>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>>>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>>>> power grid.
>>>>
>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
> is
>>>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And continued subserviance to our
>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>
>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>
>
>
> Democrats want to make America
> more dependent on Saudi oil?

The current Democratic administration seems determined to destroy the US
fossil fuel industry for reasons of ideology, however for now the USA is
still the world's largest petroleum producer. We produce more oil and
gas than we use, which means that the Saudis are not our "overlords".

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

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 by: David Hartung - Sun, 1 May 2022 10:26 UTC

On 4/30/22 21:49, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And continued subserviance to our
>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>
>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>
> Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>
> And you're still an idiot.
>
> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
> to water and electricity. No battery needed.

As with battery electric vehicles (BEV), it is entirely possible that
fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) will become the way of the future,
but they have their own challenges:

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles use platinum in the fuel cell, and like
lithium, platinum is a relatively rare metal, although not as rare as
lithium. the issue with lithium batteries fall short of what would be
needed to convert our automotive industry to pure BEV production.

An FCEV still requires a battery, although smaller than that of a BEV.

The cost of an FCEV is even higher than that of a BEV. This of course
may change as they become more common.

Infrastructure to support an FCEV is even more sparse than that of BEVs.
Again, as the fleet of FCEVs grows, this will be a self correcting problem.

To me the most interesting thing about FCEVs is that their exhaust is
water vapor, which is a greenhouse gas. In fact water vapor is the most
common of the greenhouse gases. Of course as a greenhouse gas water
vapor is apparently self-correcting.

In other words, FCEVs are even less ready for prime time than are BEVs.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

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 by: David Hartung - Sun, 1 May 2022 10:29 UTC

On 5/1/22 03:42, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:49:21 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And continued subserviance to our
>>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>>
>>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>
>> Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>>
>> And you're still an idiot.
>>
>> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
>
> Bomb on wheels...

You may want to do some checking on that.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<chine.bleu-BB4A29.04113201052022@reader.eternal-september.org>

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From: chine.b...@yahoo.com (Siri Cruise)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 04:11:32 -0700
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X-Cell: Defenders of Anarchy.
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X-Patriot: Owe Canukistan!
X-Plain: Mayonnaise on white bread.
X-Politico: Vote early! Vote often!
 by: Siri Cruise - Sun, 1 May 2022 11:11 UTC

In article <YL-dnSpaPJac_PP_nZ2dnUU7-b2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
> >> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
> >
> > Bomb on wheels...
>
> You may want to do some checking on that.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/christian-tae/hydrogen-safety-lets-cl
ear-air

Green hydrogen is safer than conventional fuels

To evaluate hydrogen’s safety, it must be compared to that of
other conventional fuels like gasoline, propane, and diesel.
While no fuel is 100 percent safe, green hydrogen has been shown
to be safer than conventional fuels in a multitude of aspects.

Hydrogen is not toxic, unlike conventional fuels. On the
other hand, many conventional fuels are toxic or contain toxic
substances, including powerful carcinogens. Moreover, when it
comes to vehicles that run on hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen
produces only water, while vehicle combustion of conventional
fuels generates harmful air pollution. A hydrogen leak or spill
will not contaminate the environment or threaten the health of
humans or wildlife, but fossil fuels can pose significant health
and ecological threats when leaked, spilled, or combusted.
Hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air and 57 times lighter
than gasoline vapor. This means that when released, hydrogen will
typically rise and disperse rapidly, greatly reducing the risk of
ignition at ground level. However, propane and gasoline vapor are
heavier than air, making it more likely that they will remain at
ground level, increasing the risk of fires harming people and
buildings.
Hydrogen has a lower radiant heat than conventional gasoline,
meaning the air around the flame of hydrogen is not as hot as
around a gasoline flame. Therefore, the risk of hydrogen
secondary fires is lower.
Hydrogen has a higher oxygen requirement for explosion than
fossil fuels. Hydrogen can be explosive with oxygen
concentrations between 18 and 59 percent while gasoline can be
explosive at oxygen concentrations between 1 and 3 percent. This
means that gasoline has greater risk for explosion than hydrogen
for any given environment with oxygen.

Hydrogen safety standards have come a long way

Although there has been a lot of recent hype around hydrogen, it
is not a new technology. Industry has been using hydrogen in
rocket fuel, oil refineries, and fertilizer production for the
past 40 years—more than enough time for scientists and engineers
to develop and adopt robust safety protocols. Today, the Hydrogen
Industry Panel on Codes, International Code Council, and National
Fire Protection Association work together to develop stringent
standards for hydrogen systems and fuel cells. Years of R&D and
experience have made it possible to develop the appropriate
engineering controls and guidelines to mitigate the risks of
hydrogen’s high flammability and low ignition energy (the energy
required to ignite something).

For example, because hydrogen is colorless and odorless, sensors
are a requirement for hydrogen fueling stations, equipment, and
facilities. Today’s technology enables remote hydrogen sensing to
ensure robust detection of any hydrogen leak. Hydrogen storage
tanks in fuel cell cars are also subject to rigid testing
standards, such as exposure to extreme temperatures and
pressures, before they can be deployed. These are just a few
examples of the standards and codes that have supported a safe
hydrogen industry for the last four decades.

However, and importantly, hydrogen safety continues to be a key
priority for R&D. At the federal level, the Department of Energy
funds hydrogen safety R&D projects within its Hydrogen and Fuel
Cell Technologies Office, contributing to a future where hydrogen
can continue to be a safe fuel that can help decarbonize our
future energy needs.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<chine.bleu-8189EE.04245301052022@reader.eternal-september.org>

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Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
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X-Cell: Defenders of Anarchy.
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X-Patriot: Owe Canukistan!
X-Plain: Mayonnaise on white bread.
X-Politico: Vote early! Vote often!
 by: Siri Cruise - Sun, 1 May 2022 11:25 UTC

In article <YL-dnStaPJb6_fP_nZ2dnUU7-b3NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> An FCEV still requires a battery, although smaller than that of a BEV.

Too bad lead-acid batteries use rare materials.

> Infrastructure to support an FCEV is even more sparse than that of BEVs.
> Again, as the fleet of FCEVs grows, this will be a self correcting problem.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/programs-and-topics/programs/clean-trans
portation-program/clean-transportation-funding-areas-1

Hydrogen Vehicles & Refueling Infrastructure

The California Energy Commission is supporting the adoption of
zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell electric cars by expanding
California’s network of hydrogen refueling stations throughout
the state. The Energy Commission is investing in an initial
network of 100 public hydrogen stations across California.

Hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles are critical to the state’s
goal of getting 1.5 million zero-emission vehicles on California
roads by 2025. They are also a vital part of the state’s work to
achieve its climate change goals, improve air quality, and reduce
reliance on fossil fuels.

Fuel cell electric vehicles use hydrogen as a fuel source and
have no tailpipe emissions except for water vapor. They are
available in a wide variety of vehicle types: cars, SUVs, and
buses.

> To me the most interesting thing about FCEVs is that their exhaust is
> water vapor, which is a greenhouse gas. In fact water vapor is the most

That is incredible stupid. A plentiful source of hydrogen is
water. Water's contribution to global warming is limitted;
depending pressure and temperature it has a saturation point
above which it percipitates out of the atmosphere. Carbon gasses
do not saturate and have to be removed chemically.

> In other words, FCEVs are even less ready for prime time than are BEVs.

Yes, you want to remain hostage to the political shennigans of
foreign and texan oil suppliers. Have fun whining about gasoline
prices. California is liberating itself.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<q0ts6hp1bd9lls5cefjbmabupthl51ueik@4ax.com>

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From: Iron_Wh...@Systemic_Patriotism.KMA (Blue Lives Matter)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 07:50:57 -0400
Organization: Laughing at liberals wearing masks
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 by: Blue Lives Matter - Sun, 1 May 2022 11:50 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 05:29:21 -0500, David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 5/1/22 03:42, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:49:21 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And continued subserviance to our
>>>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>>>
>>>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>>
>>> Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>>>
>>> And you're still an idiot.
>>>
>>> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>>> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
>>
>> Bomb on wheels...
>
>You may want to do some checking on that.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-california-explosion/

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<75ts6hh6fj45bf2nlvl67em100b4rulp51@4ax.com>

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From: Iron_Wh...@Systemic_Patriotism.KMA (Blue Lives Matter)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 07:53:18 -0400
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 by: Blue Lives Matter - Sun, 1 May 2022 11:53 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 04:11:32 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <YL-dnSpaPJac_PP_nZ2dnUU7-b2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>> >> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
>> >
>> > Bomb on wheels...
>>
>> You may want to do some checking on that.
>
>https://www.nrdc.org/experts/christian-tae/hydrogen-safety-lets-cl
>ear-air
>
>Green hydrogen is safer than conventional fuels
>
>To evaluate hydrogen’s safety, it must be compared to that of
>other conventional fuels like gasoline, propane, and diesel.
>While no fuel is 100 percent safe, green hydrogen has been shown
>to be safer than conventional fuels in a multitude of aspects.
>
> Hydrogen is not toxic, unlike conventional fuels. On the
>other hand, many conventional fuels are toxic or contain toxic
>substances, including powerful carcinogens. Moreover, when it
>comes to vehicles that run on hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen
>produces only water, while vehicle combustion of conventional
>fuels generates harmful air pollution. A hydrogen leak or spill
>will not contaminate the environment or threaten the health of
>humans or wildlife, but fossil fuels can pose significant health
>and ecological threats when leaked, spilled, or combusted.
> Hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air and 57 times lighter
>than gasoline vapor. This means that when released, hydrogen will
>typically rise and disperse rapidly, greatly reducing the risk of
>ignition at ground level. However, propane and gasoline vapor are
>heavier than air, making it more likely that they will remain at
>ground level, increasing the risk of fires harming people and
>buildings.
> Hydrogen has a lower radiant heat than conventional gasoline,
>meaning the air around the flame of hydrogen is not as hot as
>around a gasoline flame. Therefore, the risk of hydrogen
>secondary fires is lower.
> Hydrogen has a higher oxygen requirement for explosion than
>fossil fuels. Hydrogen can be explosive with oxygen
>concentrations between 18 and 59 percent while gasoline can be
>explosive at oxygen concentrations between 1 and 3 percent. This
>means that gasoline has greater risk for explosion than hydrogen
>for any given environment with oxygen.
>
>Hydrogen safety standards have come a long way
>
>Although there has been a lot of recent hype around hydrogen, it
>is not a new technology. Industry has been using hydrogen in
>rocket fuel, oil refineries, and fertilizer production for the
>past 40 years—more than enough time for scientists and engineers
>to develop and adopt robust safety protocols. Today, the Hydrogen
>Industry Panel on Codes, International Code Council, and National
>Fire Protection Association work together to develop stringent
>standards for hydrogen systems and fuel cells. Years of R&D and
>experience have made it possible to develop the appropriate
>engineering controls and guidelines to mitigate the risks of
>hydrogen’s high flammability and low ignition energy (the energy
>required to ignite something).
>
>For example, because hydrogen is colorless and odorless, sensors
>are a requirement for hydrogen fueling stations, equipment, and
>facilities. Today’s technology enables remote hydrogen sensing to
>ensure robust detection of any hydrogen leak. Hydrogen storage
>tanks in fuel cell cars are also subject to rigid testing
>standards, such as exposure to extreme temperatures and
>pressures, before they can be deployed. These are just a few
>examples of the standards and codes that have supported a safe
>hydrogen industry for the last four decades.
>
>However, and importantly, hydrogen safety continues to be a key
>priority for R&D. At the federal level, the Department of Energy
>funds hydrogen safety R&D projects within its Hydrogen and Fuel
>Cell Technologies Office, contributing to a future where hydrogen
>can continue to be a safe fuel that can help decarbonize our
>future energy needs.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-california-explosion/

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<r64t6htl8p3khttoosl0mrbor1k42o1alk@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics
Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
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 by: NoBody - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:54 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:44:16 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build even
>> one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and stationary
>> power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is today.
>
>Too bad there aren't alternatives like fuel cells. It's
>heartenning to see that Dixie can't-do attitude.

Are auto manufactures producing such vehicles now? They're putting
all their eggs in one basket that we ALREADY know is not possible.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<3j4t6hh3mqstrndnf8igjc4oae6n5kekfd@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy
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 by: NoBody - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:01 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:08:31 -0400, NoBody <NoBody@nowhere.com> wrote:

>So what do we do now libs?
>
>"During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced and
>supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>power grid.
>
>The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>today.
>
>The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This is
>a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>
>https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-global-mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-manufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/

It's interesting to note that this produced very active replies but
not one of them acknowledging the problem and the impossibility of the
path we've chosen.

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<ZZxbK.161586$Kdf.74461@fx96.iad>

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From: NOT-S...@idiocracy.gov (BeamMeUpScotty)
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 by: BeamMeUpScotty - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:49 UTC

On 5/1/22 6:26 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 4/30/22 21:49, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>   David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       And continued subserviance to our
>>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>>
>>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>
>> Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>>
>> And you're still an idiot.
>>
>> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
>
> As with battery electric vehicles (BEV), it is entirely possible that
> fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) will become the way of the future,
> but they have their own challenges:
>
> Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles use platinum in the fuel cell, and like
> lithium, platinum is a relatively rare metal, although not as rare as
> lithium. the issue with lithium batteries fall short of what would be
> needed to convert our automotive industry to pure BEV production.
>
> An FCEV still requires a battery, although smaller than that of a BEV.
>
> The cost of an FCEV is even higher than that of a BEV. This of course
> may change as they become more common.
>
> Infrastructure to support an FCEV is even more sparse than that of BEVs.
> Again, as the fleet of FCEVs grows, this will be a self correcting problem.
>
> To me the most interesting thing about FCEVs is that their exhaust is
> water vapor, which is a greenhouse gas. In fact water vapor is the most
> common of the greenhouse gases. Of course as a greenhouse gas water
> vapor is apparently self-correcting.
>
> In other words, FCEVs are even less ready for prime time than are BEVs.

Why wouldn't you diversify and make different types of Fuel Cells in
those hybrids with battery and optional powered cars...

They make the most sense, because a pure battery vehicle is useless when
there's no electric near by.

The idea isn't to limit the ability of the driver to use the car, but to
expand it. Making the cars have multiple fuels and or get more distance
by combining the fuels like storing the electric made going down a hill
and then using it to improve mileage of a portable fuel on flats or up
hills.

--
Here are the six GOP senators who broke with a majority in their caucus
to confirm Mayorkas:

Sen. Shelley Capito, R-W.Va.

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska

Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska

Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio

Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
-That's karma-

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<raybK.688872$LN2.226805@fx13.iad>

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 by: BeamMeUpScotty - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:02 UTC

On 5/1/22 6:29 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/1/22 03:42, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:49:21 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       And continued subserviance to our
>>>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>>>
>>>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>>
>>> Democrats force you to not buy EVs. And to buy gasoline.
>>>
>>> And you're still an idiot.
>>>
>>> Hydrogen can be stored in vehicle fuel tanks and then converted
>>> to water and electricity. No battery needed.
>>
>> Bomb on wheels...
>
> You may want to do some checking on that.

The Kinetic energy storage could be as simple as compressed air... where
you use a 4000lb pressure that can run the generator on, and the car can
compress more air each time you press the brakes while in motion
(essentially a jake brake), because it uses the compressor to slow you
down and electric to speed-up your batteries are drained slower and as
long as you have a filled air cylinder you can drive for a while and
generate more than you use to charge the car until you get to a
compressed air station and/or a place to plug in the batteries for a
charge. You could fill both the batteries and the air tank at the same
time.

--
Here are the six GOP senators who broke with a majority in their caucus
to confirm Mayorkas:

Sen. Shelley Capito, R-W.Va.

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska

Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska

Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio

Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
-That's karma-

Re: The impossiblility of replacing fossil fuel with "green" energy

<psybK.14234$h6X.11413@fx04.iad>

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 by: Rudy Canoza - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:21 UTC

On 5/1/2022 2:50 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 4/30/22 21:35, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:hfudnWT006kAbfD_nZ2dnUU7-
>> LednZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> On 4/30/22 21:03, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>> David Hartung <david@Hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:26mdnVBXju4XGfD_nZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/30/22 13:08, NoBody wrote:
>>>>>> So what do we do now libs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>>>>>> and supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles
>> which
>>>>>> in turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required
>>>>>> electrical power grid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it
>> is
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>>>>>> is a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.gtk.fi/en/current/gtk-research-the-currently-known-
>> global-
>>>>>> mineral-reserves-will-not-be-sufficient-to-supply-enough-metals-to-
>> man
>>>>>> ufacture-the-planned-non-fossil-fuel-industrial-systems/
>>>>>
>>>>> I was afraid that this might be the case:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> During the research it was noted that previous studies have
>>>>> significantly underestimated the number of vehicles to be replaced
>> and
>>>>> supported with alternative solutions like electric vehicles which in
>>>>> turn produces a lower estimate of the size of the required electrical
>>>>> power grid.
>>>>>
>>>>> The new estimation of the required number of electric vehicles (EV)
>>>>> including different vehicle class makes it clear that there are not
>>>>> enough minerals in the currently reported global reserves to build
>>>>> even one generation of batteries for all electric vehicles and
>>>>> stationary power storage, in the global industrial ecosystem as it is
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> The research also shows that the planned non-fossil solution will
>>>>> require more energy than ever consumed before while at the same time
>>>>> the future non-fossil fuel energy system may well be smaller in
>>>>> capacity than the current fossil fuel supported energy system. This
>> is
>>>>> a consequence of non-fossil fuel systems having a lower Energy
>>>>> Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) ratio compared to fossil fuel
>>>>> systems using oil, gas, or coal as a feedstock.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> So perhaps EVs are not the future of the automotive industry?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       And continued subserviance to our
>>>> Saudi overlords is?
>>>
>>> Only because the Democrats make it so.
>>>
>>
>>
>>         Democrats want to make America
>> more dependent on Saudi oil?
>
> The current Democratic administration seems determined to destroy the US fossil
> fuel industry for reasons of ideology,[Hartung comma]

Bullshit.

The comma is wrong.

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