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interests / soc.history.medieval / Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Jordan River

SubjectAuthor
* OT - Ping Solomon Wa425couple
`* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSolomonW
 `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon Wa425couple
  `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSurreyman
   `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon Wa425couple
    +* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSolomonW
    |`- Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSurreyman
    `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSurreyman
     `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSolomonW
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      |  `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon Wa425couple
      |   `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSurreyman
      |    `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Morsi & el-Sisi -- bus safety.a425couple
      |     `- Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Morsi & el-Sisi -- bus safety.Surreyman
      `* Re: OT - Ping Solomon WThe Horny Goat
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        |`- Re: OT - Ping Solomon WSolomonW
        `- Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Jordan Rivera425couple

1
OT - Ping Solomon W

<9BM4K.185556$yi_7.131288@fx39.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 02:43 UTC

OT - Ping Solomon W

I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
would like me to have while I am there?

By the way, in case you ever read Science Fiction,
or Fantasy, you should try

Nightwings – January 1, 1979 by Robert Silverberg

https://www.amazon.com/Nightwings-Robert-Silverberg/dp/0380414678/ref=tmm_mmp_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

currently the combined story / mass market paperback

A good description is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/449261.Nightwings

"A tale of pilgrimage and hope, betrayal and transformation."

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:41:04 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Tue, 12 Apr 2022 01:41 UTC

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 19:43:32 -0700, a425couple wrote:

> OT - Ping Solomon W
>
> I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
> of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
> would like me to have while I am there?

Mmmmmm

Jerusalem is not so much a place as a dream, an ideal. There are
countries, a person needs a week to see, The city of Jerusalem needs a week
by itself as there are many ancient streets, monuments, religious sites,
etc. None particularly awe-inspiring, but together incredible. Unless you
are particularly religious-minded, I suggest you go on tours with pilgrims
to see the sites, not alone. Then you will see the people at the religious
sites and what the place means on their faces. The other point is that
without a guide, you will not know what is significant and almost
everything there has a story.

Try, if possible, to get a place inside Jerusalem to stay and try to live
in the area.

All people are generally friendly. However, knowledge of
English is sometimes lacking. Your Russian might be handy in some places
too.

The market in the Muslim Quarter is filled with items you will not see
anywhere else, so I suggest buying some stuff there as it makes excellent
souvenirs.

PS Also, if possible, take a look at Safed. I love that place.

>
> By the way, in case you ever read Science Fiction,
> or Fantasy, you should try
>
> Nightwings – January 1, 1979 by Robert Silverberg
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Nightwings-Robert-Silverberg/dp/0380414678/ref=tmm_mmp_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
>
> currently the combined story / mass market paperback
>
> A good description is here:
> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/449261.Nightwings
>
> "A tale of pilgrimage and hope, betrayal and transformation."

Thanks but I gave up on fictin years ago, its not that I do not like it,
its just that I have so much to read that is fact, I just do not have the
time.

PS I have basically moved over to reddit, I suggest that you give it a try
too.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

<oyE5K.91205$n41.81303@fx35.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:23 UTC

On 4/11/2022 6:41 PM, SolomonW wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 19:43:32 -0700, a425couple wrote:
>
>> OT - Ping Solomon W
>>
>> I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
>> of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
>> would like me to have while I am there?
>

> Mmmmmm
> Jerusalem is not so much a place as a dream, an ideal.

> There are
> countries, a person needs a week to see, The city of Jerusalem needs a week
> by itself as there are many ancient streets, monuments, religious sites,
> etc. None particularly awe-inspiring, but together incredible. Unless you
> are particularly religious-minded, I suggest you go on tours with pilgrims
> to see the sites, not alone. Then you will see the people at the religious
> sites and what the place means on their faces. The other point is that
> without a guide, you will not know what is significant and almost
> everything there has a story.

Yes. We are doing this big trip with a experienced
tour provider.

> Try, if possible, to get a place inside Jerusalem to stay and try to live
> in the area.
>

Yes, Thanks and we will try.

After Cairo, pyramids, Nile, Aswan, Sinai, Petra Jordan,
Amman, Netanya, Tiberias, Dead Sea, we will be
spending 4 nights at the Leonardo Hotel in Jerusalem.

A flight scheduling change just had us decide between
leaving early morning for our flight home, or
spending a little extra to have a day on our own
in Jerusalem. We picked the wander around an
extra day.

Rarely can things be done perfectly.
We will do what we can to learn and enjoy.

> All people are generally friendly. However, knowledge of
> English is sometimes lacking.
>
> The market in the Muslim Quarter is filled with items you will not see
> anywhere else, so I suggest buying some stuff there as it makes excellent
> souvenirs.
>
> PS Also, if possible, take a look at Safed. I love that place.
>

Thanks for the well selected words of advise.
Take care of yourself.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:40 UTC

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:23:20 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 4/11/2022 6:41 PM, SolomonW wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 19:43:32 -0700, a425couple wrote:
> >
> >> OT - Ping Solomon W
> >>
> >> I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
> >> of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
> >> would like me to have while I am there?
> >
>
> > Mmmmmm
> > Jerusalem is not so much a place as a dream, an ideal.
>
> > There are
> > countries, a person needs a week to see, The city of Jerusalem needs a week
> > by itself as there are many ancient streets, monuments, religious sites,
> > etc. None particularly awe-inspiring, but together incredible. Unless you
> > are particularly religious-minded, I suggest you go on tours with pilgrims
> > to see the sites, not alone. Then you will see the people at the religious
> > sites and what the place means on their faces. The other point is that
> > without a guide, you will not know what is significant and almost
> > everything there has a story.
> Yes. We are doing this big trip with a experienced
> tour provider.
> > Try, if possible, to get a place inside Jerusalem to stay and try to live
> > in the area.
> >
> Yes, Thanks and we will try.
>
> After Cairo, pyramids, Nile, Aswan, Sinai, Petra Jordan,
> Amman, Netanya, Tiberias, Dead Sea, we will be
> spending 4 nights at the Leonardo Hotel in Jerusalem.
>
> A flight scheduling change just had us decide between
> leaving early morning for our flight home, or
> spending a little extra to have a day on our own
> in Jerusalem. We picked the wander around an
> extra day.
>
> Rarely can things be done perfectly.
> We will do what we can to learn and enjoy.
> > All people are generally friendly. However, knowledge of
> > English is sometimes lacking.
> >
> > The market in the Muslim Quarter is filled with items you will not see
> > anywhere else, so I suggest buying some stuff there as it makes excellent
> > souvenirs.
> >
> > PS Also, if possible, take a look at Safed. I love that place.
> >
> Thanks for the well selected words of advise.
> Take care of yourself.

Wow - that's an itinerary we took over three successive years back in the '90s which then became one of our very favourite areas to which to return. Hope you can crowd it all in successfully! You truly have some wonders to come.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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 by: a425couple - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 22:30 UTC

On 4/13/2022 11:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:23:20 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
>> On 4/11/2022 6:41 PM, SolomonW wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 19:43:32 -0700, a425couple wrote:
>>>
>>>> OT - Ping Solomon W
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
>>>> of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
>>>> would like me to have while I am there?
>>>
>> BIG SNIP
--------------------
>>
>> Rarely can things be done perfectly.
>> We will do what we can to learn and enjoy.
>>> All people are generally friendly. However, knowledge of
>>> English is sometimes lacking.
>>>
>>> The market in the Muslim Quarter is filled with items you will not see
>>> anywhere else, so I suggest buying some stuff there as it makes excellent
>>> souvenirs.
>>>
>>> PS Also, if possible, take a look at Safed. I love that place.
>>>
>> Thanks for the well selected words of advise.
>> Take care of yourself.
>
> Wow - that's an itinerary we took over three successive years back in the '90s which then became one of our very favourite areas to which to return. Hope you can crowd it all in successfully! You truly have some wonders to come.

Thanks also for your good wishes.
!! "three successive years" !!
My hat is off to your good taste and endurance.

Oh man, in 2016 is was northern Europe.
Nice.
Then came 2 weeks in China (Long, long plane flight!)
then 2 weeks Thailand (again Long, long plane flight!)
And now this, by way of layover in Dubai, made
worse by avoiding straight line flight because
now we have to avoid Russia & Ukraine's airspace,
I really doubt, no matter how wonderful the places
are, that I will want to do this trip a year later.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:27:53 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Wed, 13 Apr 2022 23:27 UTC

> Netanya, Tiberias,

Skip one and see Safed.

> now we have to avoid Russia & Ukraine's airspace,
> I really doubt, no matter how wonderful the places
> are, that I will want to do this trip a year later.

I wanted to see Ukraine and the Stan countries of the South too. I have
little hope that I will take this year.

I wanted to go on a cruise trip
to the Galapagos Islands, Easter Island, etc. I have little hope that I
will do this too.

I am reviewing options.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 07:02 UTC

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 12:27:51 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
> > Netanya, Tiberias,
>
> Skip one and see Safed.
> > now we have to avoid Russia & Ukraine's airspace,
> > I really doubt, no matter how wonderful the places
> > are, that I will want to do this trip a year later.
> I wanted to see Ukraine and the Stan countries of the South too. I have
> little hope that I will take this year.
>
> I wanted to go on a cruise trip
> to the Galapagos Islands, Easter Island, etc. I have little hope that I
> will do this too.
>
> I am reviewing options.

Yep, we were also after the 'Stans - we've followed the "Silk Roads" up and through the east Turkey caravanserais and into Syria (in the '90s!) but always wanted to continue to see that fabulous Islamic architecture.
But sadly age is now starting to inhibit us.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 07:11 UTC

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 11:30:36 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 4/13/2022 11:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:23:20 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> >> On 4/11/2022 6:41 PM, SolomonW wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 19:43:32 -0700, a425couple wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> OT - Ping Solomon W
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm going to be in Jerusalem in a couple
> >>>> of weeks, are there any particular thoughts you
> >>>> would like me to have while I am there?
> >>>
> >> BIG SNIP
> --------------------
> >>
> >> Rarely can things be done perfectly.
> >> We will do what we can to learn and enjoy.
> >>> All people are generally friendly. However, knowledge of
> >>> English is sometimes lacking.
> >>>
> >>> The market in the Muslim Quarter is filled with items you will not see
> >>> anywhere else, so I suggest buying some stuff there as it makes excellent
> >>> souvenirs.
> >>>
> >>> PS Also, if possible, take a look at Safed. I love that place.
> >>>
> >> Thanks for the well selected words of advise.
> >> Take care of yourself.
> >
> > Wow - that's an itinerary we took over three successive years back in the '90s which then became one of our very favourite areas to which to return. Hope you can crowd it all in successfully! You truly have some wonders to come.
> Thanks also for your good wishes.
> !! "three successive years" !!
> My hat is off to your good taste and endurance.
>
> Oh man, in 2016 is was northern Europe.
> Nice.
> Then came 2 weeks in China (Long, long plane flight!)
> then 2 weeks Thailand (again Long, long plane flight!)
> And now this, by way of layover in Dubai, made
> worse by avoiding straight line flight because
> now we have to avoid Russia & Ukraine's airspace,
> I really doubt, no matter how wonderful the places
> are, that I will want to do this trip a year later.

The Sinai and Jordan came at the back end of many trips through North Africa that started over in Morocco in the '60s. There's just so much to experience that we tended to spend some weeks each year concentrating on one specific area each time, i.e. Aswan to the Sudan border, Tunisia south of El Djem, Aqaba to Petra etc.
After your coming "introduction" I'm sure you might return similarly.
Fascinating area.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:23:12 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
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 by: SolomonW - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:23 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:

> The Sinai

Did not impress me much.

> and Jordan

Its high on my todo list.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

<65a415ef-47fb-4eed-8ac3-1c0862bca971n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:40 UTC

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>
> > The Sinai
>
>
> Did not impress me much.
>
> > and Jordan
>
> Its high on my todo list.

The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Message-ID: <mobh5hp2vnpv4io8brglhr0j6okdbcjrcq@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 23:32 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:23:12 +1000, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>
>> The Sinai
>
>
>Did not impress me much.
>
>> and Jordan
>
>Its high on my todo list.

Is that the river or the country?

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:07:33 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 01:07 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:40:29 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:

> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>
>>> The Sinai
>>
>>
>> Did not impress me much.
>>
>>> and Jordan
>>
>> Its high on my todo list.
>
> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?

Its debated whether it was Mount Sinai but both those places were
interesting.

> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:09:49 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 01:09 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:32:51 -0700, The Horny Goat wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:23:12 +1000, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>
>>> The Sinai
>>
>>
>>Did not impress me much.
>>
>>> and Jordan
>>
>>Its high on my todo list.
>
> Is that the river or the country?

Ah, the river, if you have not seen it, it will be a terrible
disappointment when you do now. Most of the water is drained out now for
agriculture.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Message-ID: <kg8j5ht3fumare1vsasfelprhs441n21bk@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:50 UTC

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:09:49 +1000, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
wrote:

>>>> and Jordan
>>>
>>>Its high on my todo list.
>>
>> Is that the river or the country?
>
>Ah, the river, if you have not seen it, it will be a terrible
>disappointment when you do now. Most of the water is drained out now for
>agriculture.

I knew one priest who was there during a drought and claimed you
didn't have to be divine to 'walk on water' - is it that bad?

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:11:23 +1000
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 by: SolomonW - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 06:11 UTC

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:50:22 -0700, The Horny Goat wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:09:49 +1000, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>>> and Jordan
>>>>
>>>>Its high on my todo list.
>>>
>>> Is that the river or the country?
>>
>>Ah, the river, if you have not seen it, it will be a terrible
>>disappointment when you do now. Most of the water is drained out now for
>>agriculture.
>
> I knew one priest who was there during a drought and claimed you
> didn't have to be divine to 'walk on water' - is it that bad?

It is said in some places today it is a creek.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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 by: a425couple - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:23 UTC

On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>
>>> The Sinai
>>
>>
>> Did not impress me much.
>>
>>> and Jordan
>>
>> Its high on my todo list.
>
> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.

After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.

Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
because it would have been in late afternoon
and descend in the dark.
Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
had already depleted hydration and swollen
the feet.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Thu, 12 May 2022 07:33 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
> >>
> >>> The Sinai
> >>
> >>
> >> Did not impress me much.
> >>
> >>> and Jordan
> >>
> >> Its high on my todo list.
> >
> > The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
> > Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.
> After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
> Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
> Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.
>
> Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
> because it would have been in late afternoon
> and descend in the dark.
> Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
> had already depleted hydration and swollen
> the feet.

Yep, something else, ain't it!
I would have loved to have spent more time at the monastery on the several occasions we've passed through that area - but without those coach crowds!
Worse - I hear there's a xxxxxxxx air strip there now, built since our last visit - correct?
We always trekked the Sinai (camel, not foot!) - just always seemed far more appropriate and meaningful for some reason.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

<9edfK.27513$qMI1.23550@fx96.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Thu, 12 May 2022 19:29 UTC

On 5/12/2022 12:33 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
>> On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Sinai
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did not impress me much.
>>>>
>>>>> and Jordan
>>>>
>>>> Its high on my todo list.
>>>
>>> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
>>> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.
>> After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
>> Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
>> Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.
>>
>> Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
>> because it would have been in late afternoon
>> and descend in the dark.
>> Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
>> had already depleted hydration and swollen
>> the feet.
>
> Yep, something else, ain't it!
> I would have loved to have spent more time at the monastery on the several occasions we've passed through that area - but without those coach crowds!

Due to Covid, nobody was being allowed in.
We just saw it from the outside.

You can view it on Google Maps,
st. catherine's monastery sinai

> Worse - I hear there's a xxxxxxxx air strip there now, built since our last visit - correct?

No airstrip visible close by.
Go ahead and check it out for yourself on Google maps satellite view.

Oh,, well maybe -
St. Catherine International Airport (SKV)
Airport
but that is around 5 miles away.
Plenty of motel or residential building going on.

Try viewing this
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5493131,33.9519788,3a,75y,180h,105.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya328-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352!5m1!1e4

Plenty of road block security heavy check points.
I swear if it was not for all the terror threats,
Egyptian employment would drop 20 %.
The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
just got our tour guide livid.

> We always trekked the Sinai (camel, not foot!) - just always seemed far more appropriate and meaningful for some reason.

Sounds neat. Personally, I did not care for the
short rides I had.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Jordan River

<1RdfK.2637$tTK.1551@fx97.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Thu, 12 May 2022 20:10 UTC

On 4/14/2022 6:09 PM, SolomonW wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:32:51 -0700, The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:23:12 +1000, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Sinai
>>>
>>> Did not impress me much.
>>>
>>>> and Jordan
>>>
>>> Its high on my todo list.
>>
>> Is that the river or the country?
>
> Ah, the river, if you have not seen it, it will be a terrible
> disappointment when you do now. Most of the water is drained out now for
> agriculture.

It looks very lovely and like paradise when
it springs out of the Golan Heights.
The Tel Dan Nature Reserve seems wonderful.

Tel Dan Nature Reserve
Search Google Maps
34,627 photos
Tel Dan Nature Reserve

I think Syria seriously screwed their own pouch
when they used / abused the Israeli give back
of land and went to war too many times.
I served in the USMC. I would not be fond of
having to attack enemy dug in on that high ground.
Screw it, Syria, YOU LOST IT!!!

And when the River flows from the Sea of Galilee
it is still OK.

But down towards the Dead Sea, only occasionally
damp ground.
When we crossed at
King Hussein Bridge Border Crossing
3.1
93 reviews
Border crossing station
I did not really see any water.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W

<1326b83f-26dc-41be-bebb-60e1b9bd1cbcn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Fri, 13 May 2022 07:06 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 8:29:11 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 5/12/2022 12:33 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> >> On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Sinai
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Did not impress me much.
> >>>>
> >>>>> and Jordan
> >>>>
> >>>> Its high on my todo list.
> >>>
> >>> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St.. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
> >>> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.
> >> After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
> >> Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
> >> Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.
> >>
> >> Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
> >> because it would have been in late afternoon
> >> and descend in the dark.
> >> Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
> >> had already depleted hydration and swollen
> >> the feet.
> >
> > Yep, something else, ain't it!
> > I would have loved to have spent more time at the monastery on the several occasions we've passed through that area - but without those coach crowds!
> Due to Covid, nobody was being allowed in.
> We just saw it from the outside.
>
> You can view it on Google Maps,
> st. catherine's monastery sinai
> > Worse - I hear there's a xxxxxxxx air strip there now, built since our last visit - correct?
> No airstrip visible close by.
> Go ahead and check it out for yourself on Google maps satellite view.
>
> Oh,, well maybe -
> St. Catherine International Airport (SKV)
> Airport
> but that is around 5 miles away.
> Plenty of motel or residential building going on.
>
> Try viewing this
> https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5493131,33.9519788,3a,75y,180h,105.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya328-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352!5m1!1e4
>
> Plenty of road block security heavy check points.
> I swear if it was not for all the terror threats,
> Egyptian employment would drop 20 %.
> The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
> just got our tour guide livid.
> > We always trekked the Sinai (camel, not foot!) - just always seemed far more appropriate and meaningful for some reason.
> Sounds neat. Personally, I did not care for the
> short rides I had.

Thanks so much for your remarks.
Good God, it sounds like a world removed since we were last there - but that was the '90s!
We were always allowed in, but only tried once, and the heaving masses (literally) completely repelled us!
Motel and residential building? The whole area for some distance used to be pure desert apart from the (relatively new) tarmac road. Sounds horrible.
Re security, we loved the sign we saw somewhere in the Sinai saying "Please place found mines in box" !!!!!
We loved camel trekking. Our notable one was following Lawrence's (supposed!) route from Aqaba to Suez.
We always had in mind the mammoth (50-day) trek from Morocco to Timbuctu, but politics and age overtook us!
Sorry to carry on, but you've hit one of my buttons! :-))

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Morsi & el-Sisi -- bus safety.

<C4yfK.776$JXmb.277@fx03.iad>

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 by: a425couple - Fri, 13 May 2022 19:12 UTC

On 5/13/2022 12:06 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 8:29:11 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
>> On 5/12/2022 12:33 AM, Surreyman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
>>>> On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Sinai
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did not impress me much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and Jordan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its high on my todo list.
>>>>>
>>>>> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
>>>>> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.
>>>> After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
>>>> Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
>>>> Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.
>>>>
>>>> Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
>>>> because it would have been in late afternoon
>>>> and descend in the dark.
>>>> Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
>>>> had already depleted hydration and swollen
>>>> the feet.
>>>
>>> Yep, something else, ain't it!
>>> I would have loved to have spent more time at the monastery on the several occasions we've passed through that area - but without those coach crowds!
>> Due to Covid, nobody was being allowed in.
>> We just saw it from the outside.
>>
>> You can view it on Google Maps,
>> st. catherine's monastery sinai
>>> Worse - I hear there's a xxxxxxxx air strip there now, built since our last visit - correct?
>> No airstrip visible close by.
>> Go ahead and check it out for yourself on Google maps satellite view.
>>
>> Oh,, well maybe -
>> St. Catherine International Airport (SKV)
>> Airport
>> but that is around 5 miles away.
>> Plenty of motel or residential building going on.
>>
>> Try viewing this
>> https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5493131,33.9519788,3a,75y,180h,105.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya328-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352!5m1!1e4
>>
>> Plenty of road block security heavy check points.
>> I swear if it was not for all the terror threats,
>> Egyptian employment would drop 20 %.
>> The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
>> just got our tour guide livid.

>>> We always trekked the Sinai (camel, not foot!) - just always seemed far more appropriate and meaningful for some reason.
>> Sounds neat. Personally, I did not care for the
>> short rides I had.
>
> Thanks so much for your remarks.
> Good God, it sounds like a world removed since we were last there - but that was the '90s!
> We were always allowed in, but only tried once, and the heaving masses (literally) completely repelled us!
> Motel and residential building? The whole area for some distance used to be pure desert apart from the (relatively new) tarmac road. Sounds horrible.
> Re security, we loved the sign we saw somewhere in the Sinai saying "Please place found mines in box" !!!!!
> We loved camel trekking. Our notable one was following Lawrence's (supposed!) route from Aqaba to Suez.
> We always had in mind the mammoth (50-day) trek from Morocco to Timbuctu, but politics and age overtook us!

> Sorry to carry on, but you've hit one of my buttons! :-))
>

Go ahead and "carry on" all you want to my friend.
The newsgroups have gotten either very thin,
or very thick and gibberish.
We have a right to visit and reminisce if we wish to,
and have the energy and attention span.

Our tour guide was a Muslim who nearly had a PhD
in comparative religions. Quite open especially to Coptics.
Very pro Camp David

>> The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
>> just got our tour guide livid.

I had "Shifting Sands" in which one Egyptian author
bemoaned the fact the Egyptian military failed
at it's 'assigned' task, destroying Israel, and
'sadly' then turned to suppressing the populace
and prohibited democracy.

The guide's views were so strong, we did not get
to any discussion of military denying democracy.
He very strongly believed the military saved the
country by kicking out Morsi and keeping the
Muslim Brotherhood under firm observation.

I used to think 'democracy' was the best thing ever.
Now, I'm not convinced that we should fight to
spread it.
Afghanistain would tend to show,, not worth it.
Egypt's President Morsi (2012–2013) is also scary.
Who would win an election in Russia?
Who would win an election in Iran?
Who would win an election in Venezuela?

Egypt's President, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi may not
have been elected by a citizen majority,,
but at least so far seems to be striving for
peace and spreading progress for most citizens.

By the way, the first several days it was just
my wife, I, our guide, and a driver, with out
assigned security. After about 10 more had joined
and we used a real bus, we had an Egyptian plain
close officer in the bus, and always one or two
guard vehicles.
Almost always one 'guard' vehicle was a police
4 door pick-up with canopy over rear end.
Back 'tailgate' had an opening with always one
officer with an automatic weapon pointing out
the slit in the window. Always driver, passenger,
and two officers in rear.

Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Morsi & el-Sisi -- bus safety.

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Subject: Re: OT - Ping Solomon W - Morsi & el-Sisi -- bus safety.
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Sat, 14 May 2022 07:14 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:12:38 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> On 5/13/2022 12:06 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 8:29:11 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> >> On 5/12/2022 12:33 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+1, a425couple wrote:
> >>>> On 4/14/2022 3:40 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:23:15 AM UTC+1, SolomonW wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Sinai
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Did not impress me much.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and Jordan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Its high on my todo list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The south/central Sinai has glorious desert scenery inland if you're with people who know where to go - including around Mount Sinai itself & St. Catherine's Monastery which must themselves attract as well as for the scenery?
> >>>>> Agreed that the northern areas are relatively uninteresting.
> >>>> After an unexpected delay, we just got home.
> >>>> Yes we went to Mount Sinai.
> >>>> Just spectacular scenery and geologic formations.
> >>>>
> >>>> Both I and my wife chose not to climb it
> >>>> because it would have been in late afternoon
> >>>> and descend in the dark.
> >>>> Also, plenty earlier walking, and bus travel
> >>>> had already depleted hydration and swollen
> >>>> the feet.
> >>>
> >>> Yep, something else, ain't it!
> >>> I would have loved to have spent more time at the monastery on the several occasions we've passed through that area - but without those coach crowds!
> >> Due to Covid, nobody was being allowed in.
> >> We just saw it from the outside.
> >>
> >> You can view it on Google Maps,
> >> st. catherine's monastery sinai
> >>> Worse - I hear there's a xxxxxxxx air strip there now, built since our last visit - correct?
> >> No airstrip visible close by.
> >> Go ahead and check it out for yourself on Google maps satellite view.
> >>
> >> Oh,, well maybe -
> >> St. Catherine International Airport (SKV)
> >> Airport
> >> but that is around 5 miles away.
> >> Plenty of motel or residential building going on.
> >>
> >> Try viewing this
> >> https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5493131,33.9519788,3a,75y,180h,105.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0Jx8pCFwdHFo74gc0npGbi_MNOgBhDhUTIlJj%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya328-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352!5m1!1e4
> >>
> >> Plenty of road block security heavy check points.
> >> I swear if it was not for all the terror threats,
> >> Egyptian employment would drop 20 %.
> >> The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
> >> just got our tour guide livid.
>
> >>> We always trekked the Sinai (camel, not foot!) - just always seemed far more appropriate and meaningful for some reason.
> >> Sounds neat. Personally, I did not care for the
> >> short rides I had.
> >
> > Thanks so much for your remarks.
> > Good God, it sounds like a world removed since we were last there - but that was the '90s!
> > We were always allowed in, but only tried once, and the heaving masses (literally) completely repelled us!
> > Motel and residential building? The whole area for some distance used to be pure desert apart from the (relatively new) tarmac road. Sounds horrible.
> > Re security, we loved the sign we saw somewhere in the Sinai saying "Please place found mines in box" !!!!!
> > We loved camel trekking. Our notable one was following Lawrence's (supposed!) route from Aqaba to Suez.
> > We always had in mind the mammoth (50-day) trek from Morocco to Timbuctu, but politics and age overtook us!
>
> > Sorry to carry on, but you've hit one of my buttons! :-))
> >
> Go ahead and "carry on" all you want to my friend.
> The newsgroups have gotten either very thin,
> or very thick and gibberish.
> We have a right to visit and reminisce if we wish to,
> and have the energy and attention span.
>
> Our tour guide was a Muslim who nearly had a PhD
> in comparative religions. Quite open especially to Coptics.
> Very pro Camp David
> >> The idea of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
> >> just got our tour guide livid.
> I had "Shifting Sands" in which one Egyptian author
> bemoaned the fact the Egyptian military failed
> at it's 'assigned' task, destroying Israel, and
> 'sadly' then turned to suppressing the populace
> and prohibited democracy.
>
> The guide's views were so strong, we did not get
> to any discussion of military denying democracy.
> He very strongly believed the military saved the
> country by kicking out Morsi and keeping the
> Muslim Brotherhood under firm observation.
>
> I used to think 'democracy' was the best thing ever.
> Now, I'm not convinced that we should fight to
> spread it.
> Afghanistain would tend to show,, not worth it.
> Egypt's President Morsi (2012–2013) is also scary.
> Who would win an election in Russia?
> Who would win an election in Iran?
> Who would win an election in Venezuela?
>
> Egypt's President, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi may not
> have been elected by a citizen majority,,
> but at least so far seems to be striving for
> peace and spreading progress for most citizens.
>
>
> By the way, the first several days it was just
> my wife, I, our guide, and a driver, with out
> assigned security. After about 10 more had joined
> and we used a real bus, we had an Egyptian plain
> close officer in the bus, and always one or two
> guard vehicles.
> Almost always one 'guard' vehicle was a police
> 4 door pick-up with canopy over rear end.
> Back 'tailgate' had an opening with always one
> officer with an automatic weapon pointing out
> the slit in the window. Always driver, passenger,
> and two officers in rear.

Wow, could go on for pages but will try to be uncharacteristically brief.
Interesting to see that security still seems just as strong as in the '90s. For instance, we were not allowed to 'camel' from Luxor to Aswan, but had to go by car within a 'crocodile' of semi-military convoy.
However, on our longer treks we needed no security accompaniment. Probably because they were unpublicised private arrangements, and the khabir probably wanted the police along even less than we!
One year, just after a massacre of some 50 German(?) tourists in the Valley of the Kings, we were with a small party looking around stuff in the Dakhla Oasis, when rapid fire broke out. After the "Valley" incident we were understandably nervous, so we all dived into the sand! Turned out that there was a police practice range nearby! :-))
You were braver than we. We very rarely ever discussed any politics or religion with "locals" - far too potentially dangerous!
Fully agree with you re "democracy". It needs a totally different base to succeed. Desert society (still applies to their modern cities etc.) does not have this. The Arab Spring was the most disastrous and ill-conceived policy ever!
With all the ills of generalisation, in our many years of travelling within the desert swathe from Morocco to Jordan, we found some of the most gracious hospitality and examples of fine living, alongside the worst of closed minds and unthinking antagonism.
Nevertheless, the appeal remains absolute!

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