Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.

This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
during the second quarter of this year.

Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
overruns and financial losses due to delays.

https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
--
Frank Howell

Frank Howell wrote:
> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds
> of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be
> flammable.
>
> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
> during the second quarter of this year.
>
> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract,
> as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any
> cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e

So....look....at the end of the day going forward, does the calculus
of that indicate that Boeing will literally be.....like....self-held
accountable within a statistically significant passage of time?

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 7/27/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
> 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
> feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.
>
> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
> during the second quarter of this year.
>
> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
> part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
> overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e

Maybe they should hire Elon as a consultant.
--
NAGA Dimocrats are the diseased who are infecting the entire country
with insanity.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:06:18 -0700, Frank Howell
<fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:

>Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
>1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
>feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.
>
>This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>during the second quarter of this year.
>
>Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
>part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
>overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>
>https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>
"Nine years ago, when NASA down-selected to Boeing and SpaceX to
provide crew transportation services to the space station, Boeing was
considered the prohibitive favorite to deliver first for NASA.
However, SpaceX will launch its seventh operational mission and eighth
overall crew mission for NASA next month."

Asked whether Starliner might be able to launch this year, Stich,
NASA's Commercial Crew program manager, did not offer a concrete
timetable. "We're not really ready to talk about a launch opportunity
yet," he said. "We're going to work the technical issues first, and
then we'll sit down with the Boeing team when the time is right and
pick a launch target."

Having a "Cost +" attitude where delays and cost overruns are a good
thing doesn't fly (excuse the pun) with a "Fixed Price Contract". I
suspect that the Starliner's Tech will be verging on obsolete by the
time it flies.

The wrapping tape not tested until the wiring bundles are wrapped and
installed is definitely a "Cost +" attitude.

Go SpaceX!

On 7/27/2023 4:03 PM, jerry.osage@nospam.net wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:06:18 -0700, Frank Howell
> <fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
>> 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
>> feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.
>>
>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>
>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
>> part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
>> overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>
> "Nine years ago, when NASA down-selected to Boeing and SpaceX to
> provide crew transportation services to the space station, Boeing was
> considered the prohibitive favorite to deliver first for NASA.
> However, SpaceX will launch its seventh operational mission and eighth
> overall crew mission for NASA next month."
>
> Asked whether Starliner might be able to launch this year, Stich,
> NASA's Commercial Crew program manager, did not offer a concrete
> timetable. "We're not really ready to talk about a launch opportunity
> yet," he said. "We're going to work the technical issues first, and
> then we'll sit down with the Boeing team when the time is right and
> pick a launch target."
>
> Having a "Cost +" attitude where delays and cost overruns are a good
> thing doesn't fly (excuse the pun) with a "Fixed Price Contract". I
> suspect that the Starliner's Tech will be verging on obsolete by the
> time it flies.
>
> The wrapping tape not tested until the wiring bundles are wrapped and
> installed is definitely a "Cost +" attitude.
>
> Go SpaceX!

The old culture at Boeing definitely cost them in this instance. I don't
know why they agreed to a fixed cost deal when cost + had been a winner
for them. Maybe they felt they had to bite the bullet to compete with
Space X for the business.

You can't just change a decades old culture overnight. It's like trying
to do a U-turn with an aircraft carrier in a pond. Probably can be done
but it would take a lot of maneuvering.
--
NAGA Dimocrats are the diseased who are infecting the entire country
with insanity.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 21:42:18 -0500, "George.Anthony"
<ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:

>On 7/27/2023 4:03 PM, jerry.osage@nospam.net wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:06:18 -0700, Frank Howell
>> <fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
>>> 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>>> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>>> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
>>> feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.
>>>
>>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>>
>>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
>>> part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
>>> overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>>
>> "Nine years ago, when NASA down-selected to Boeing and SpaceX to
>> provide crew transportation services to the space station, Boeing was
>> considered the prohibitive favorite to deliver first for NASA.
>> However, SpaceX will launch its seventh operational mission and eighth
>> overall crew mission for NASA next month."
>>
>> Asked whether Starliner might be able to launch this year, Stich,
>> NASA's Commercial Crew program manager, did not offer a concrete
>> timetable. "We're not really ready to talk about a launch opportunity
>> yet," he said. "We're going to work the technical issues first, and
>> then we'll sit down with the Boeing team when the time is right and
>> pick a launch target."
>>
>> Having a "Cost +" attitude where delays and cost overruns are a good
>> thing doesn't fly (excuse the pun) with a "Fixed Price Contract". I
>> suspect that the Starliner's Tech will be verging on obsolete by the
>> time it flies.
>>
>> The wrapping tape not tested until the wiring bundles are wrapped and
>> installed is definitely a "Cost +" attitude.
>>
>> Go SpaceX!
>
>The old culture at Boeing definitely cost them in this instance. I don't
>know why they agreed to a fixed cost deal when cost + had been a winner
>for them. Maybe they felt they had to bite the bullet to compete with
>Space X for the business.
>
>You can't just change a decades old culture overnight. It's like trying
>to do a U-turn with an aircraft carrier in a pond. Probably can be done
>but it would take a lot of maneuvering.
>
OI suspect that they thought that SpaceX was going to fail and they
would have a head start when a new player was brought in. And, with
SpaceX failing it would prove just what a difficult task it was going
to be - and Boeing could renegotiate their contract.

Big, old companies are management heavy and are slow from start to
finish. SpaceX probably had a prototype nearing completion while
Boeing was still deciding who was going to manage what.

On 7/27/2023 11:09 PM, jerry.osage@nospam.net wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 21:42:18 -0500, "George.Anthony"
> <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
>
>> On 7/27/2023 4:03 PM, jerry.osage@nospam.net wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:06:18 -0700, Frank Howell
>>> <fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on June
>>>> 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>>>> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>>>> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds of
>>>> feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be flammable.
>>>>
>>>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>>>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>>>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>>>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>>>
>>>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract, as
>>>> part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any cost
>>>> overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>>>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>>>
>>> "Nine years ago, when NASA down-selected to Boeing and SpaceX to
>>> provide crew transportation services to the space station, Boeing was
>>> considered the prohibitive favorite to deliver first for NASA.
>>> However, SpaceX will launch its seventh operational mission and eighth
>>> overall crew mission for NASA next month."
>>>
>>> Asked whether Starliner might be able to launch this year, Stich,
>>> NASA's Commercial Crew program manager, did not offer a concrete
>>> timetable. "We're not really ready to talk about a launch opportunity
>>> yet," he said. "We're going to work the technical issues first, and
>>> then we'll sit down with the Boeing team when the time is right and
>>> pick a launch target."
>>>
>>> Having a "Cost +" attitude where delays and cost overruns are a good
>>> thing doesn't fly (excuse the pun) with a "Fixed Price Contract". I
>>> suspect that the Starliner's Tech will be verging on obsolete by the
>>> time it flies.
>>>
>>> The wrapping tape not tested until the wiring bundles are wrapped and
>>> installed is definitely a "Cost +" attitude.
>>>
>>> Go SpaceX!
>>
>> The old culture at Boeing definitely cost them in this instance. I don't
>> know why they agreed to a fixed cost deal when cost + had been a winner
>> for them. Maybe they felt they had to bite the bullet to compete with
>> Space X for the business.
>>
>> You can't just change a decades old culture overnight. It's like trying
>> to do a U-turn with an aircraft carrier in a pond. Probably can be done
>> but it would take a lot of maneuvering.
>>
> OI suspect that they thought that SpaceX was going to fail and they
> would have a head start when a new player was brought in. And, with
> SpaceX failing it would prove just what a difficult task it was going
> to be - and Boeing could renegotiate their contract.
>
> Big, old companies are management heavy and are slow from start to
> finish.

Kinda' like our government. Actually a lot like our government.

SpaceX probably had a prototype nearing completion while
> Boeing was still deciding who was going to manage what.

--
NAGA Dimocrats are the diseased who are infecting the entire country
with insanity.

bfh wrote:
> Frank Howell wrote:
>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
>> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds
>> of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be
>> flammable.
>>
>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>
>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract,
>> as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any
>> cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>
> So....look....at the end of the day going forward, does the calculus of
> that indicate that Boeing will literally be.....like....self-held
> accountable within a statistically significant passage of time?
>
Well if fixed contract means what it says, then yes.

--
Frank Howell

George.Anthony wrote:
> On 7/27/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
>> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of these
>> involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the Starliner
>> capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with hundreds
>> of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft found to be
>> flammable.
>>
>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>
>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract,
>> as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any
>> cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>
> Maybe they should hire Elon as a consultant.
What due to his Twitter prowess?

--
Frank Howell

Frank Howell wrote:
> George.Anthony wrote:
>> On 7/27/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
>>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
>>> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of
>>> these involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the
>>> Starliner capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came
>>> with hundreds of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the
>>> spacecraft found to be flammable.
>>>
>>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the
>>> Starliner program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of
>>> this, Boeing's Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss
>>> of $527 million during the second quarter of this year.
>>>
>>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price
>>> contract, as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is
>>> responsible for any cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>
>> Maybe they should hire Elon as a consultant.
> What due to  his Twitter prowess?
>
Since we're talking about rockets, we should probably talk about
rockets, and Elon has gotten many more rockets off the ground this
year than ULA. However comma if you insist on tweets as a metric, I'll
bet Elon has launched many more tweets this year than ULA, too.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 7/29/2023 5:30 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
> George.Anthony wrote:
>> On 7/27/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
>>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
>>> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of
>>> these involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the
>>> Starliner capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came with
>>> hundreds of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the spacecraft
>>> found to be flammable.
>>>
>>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the Starliner
>>> program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of this, Boeing's
>>> Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss of $527 million
>>> during the second quarter of this year.
>>>
>>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price contract,
>>> as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is responsible for any
>>> cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>
>> Maybe they should hire Elon as a consultant.
> What due to  his Twitter prowess?
>

Is that the best you can do?
--
NAGA Dimocrats are the diseased who are infecting the entire country
with insanity.

Frank Howell wrote:
> George.Anthony wrote:
>> On 7/27/2023 12:06 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
>>> Just weeks before this launch was due to occur, Boeing announced on
>>> June 1 that there were two serious issues with Starliner. One of
>>> these involved the "soft links" in the lines that connect the
>>> Starliner capsule to its parachutes, and the second problem came
>>> with hundreds of feet of P-213 glass cloth tape inside the
>>> spacecraft found to be flammable.
>>>
>>> This brings the company's total write-down of losses on the
>>> Starliner program to more than $1.1 billion. Partly because of
>>> this, Boeing's Defense, Space, & Security division reported a loss
>>> of $527 million during the second quarter of this year.
>>>
>>> Because Starliner was funded by NASA through a fixed-price
>>> contract, as part of the Commercial Crew program, Boeing is
>>> responsible for any cost overruns and financial losses due to delays.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/mr34pf6e
>>
>> Maybe they should hire Elon as a consultant.
> What due to  his Twitter prowess?
>
This is how Twitterman.....oops......I mean Xman does it:
https://youtu.be/HisrxVNaePY?t=4701

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.