from
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528

Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery

A gold coin discovered in Newfoundland could “rewrite the history
books.” Directly challenging the mainstream narrative of the discovery
of North America, this coin suggests Europeans were in Newfoundland
earlier than currently believed.

Exciting Discovery of Medieval Coin in Canada
This week the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador published a press
release saying the controversial gold coin was found this summer by
Edward Hynes, a local amateur historian. Heralded as the oldest English
coin ever discovered in Canada, this quarter noble was minted in London
sometime between 1422 AD and 1427 AD, at which time it was valued at one
shilling and eight pence, around $81 today.

Silver Coin from Henry VII’s Reign is Oldest English Coin Found in Canada
The Beothuck Key: Finding a Lost Chinese-Norse Civilization in Canada
Because this medieval coin was discontinued around 1470 AD, its
discovery on a Canadian beach is presenting archaeologists with “a
historical puzzle.” Is this coin the smoking gun proving European
occupation in North America earlier than currently thought?

A Henry VI quarter noble, a medieval coin unearthed in Canada which was
originally minted in London between 1422 and 1427. (Government of
Newfoundland & Labrador)

The Big North American Discovery Question

Medieval Icelandic sagas said Leif Erikson rediscovered North America in
1001 AD, but archaeologists always disregarded these accounts as being
mythological. However, that all changed in 1978 when archaeologists
discovered an 11th century Norse settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows in Canada.

According to accepted history, the next European explorer in
Newfoundland arrived in 1497 AD. This was John Cabot , the Italian
navigator credited with the rediscovery of Newfoundland. However, the
newly discovered medieval gold coin found in Canada predates John
Cabot's voyage by 70 years.

Jamie Brake, a Canadian Provincial archaeologist told CBC News that
according to the accepted historical narrative, at the time this coin
was minted “people in England were not yet aware of Newfoundland or
North America,” and that is why the discovery is “so exciting.”

The researcher added that evidence of a pre-16th century occupation of
the New World would be “pretty amazing and highly significant in this
part of the world.” This was a humble statement, for, in reality, such a
discovery would demand a rewriting of the history, defaming John Cabot,
and telling an entirely new origins story.

The Oldest English Medieval Coin Uncovered in Canada
This quarter noble gold coin dates back to the reign of King Henry VI in
the 1420s AD. Thus, it is older than the “half groat” coin that was
unearthed last year on the beach at the Cupids Cove Plantation
provincial historic site, which dates to the 1490s.

The Henry VII “half groat,” or two-penny piece, minted in Canterbury,
England sometime between 1493 and 1499 and discovered at the Cupids Cove
Plantation Provincial Historic Site in Canada’s Newfoundland in 2021.
(Government of Newfoundland and Labrador)

The Henry VII “half groat,” or two-penny piece, minted in Canterbury,
England sometime between 1493 and 1499 and discovered at the Cupids Cove
Plantation Provincial Historic Site in Canada’s Newfoundland in 2021. (
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador )

Because this is the oldest coin ever discovered in Canada, the location
where it was discovered has not been disclosed for security reasons.
Brake told CBC News that everyone concerned is being “really vague about
the location.” However, he did disclose that it was “found on a beach
near a registered archaeological site that dates to the 1700s .”

According to Paul Berry, the former curator of the Bank of Canada's
Currency Museum, the mystery of how the medieval coin came to be where
it was discovered “is likely to remain for some time.” Berry said that
while the coin was probably no longer in circulation when it was lost
“that doesn't help provide answers as to how it got there.”

While Paul Berry suggests it was dropped “after” it was out of
circulation, archaeologist Brake suggests it might have been dropped by
someone “before” Italian explorer Cabot got here in 1479 AD. Who then
might have dropped the gold coin before Cabot’s official discovery of
North America 1497 AD?

Statue of John Cabot gazing across Bonavista Bay from Cape Bonavista,
the place where, according to tradition, he first sighted land on the
northeast coast of the island of Newfoundland. (Evan T. Jones / CC BY-SA
4.0)

Who Rediscovered North America? Elite Explorers, or Fishermen?

According to Newfoundland Heritage , in 1481 AD English merchant John
Day sailed one of two Bristol ships, the George and the Trinity, in
search of the mythical island known as Brasile. Suspiciously loaded with
salt, it is suspected the two boats had possibly discovered the
cod-filled Grand Banks of Newfoundland, one of the world's richest
fishing grounds.

Vikings Didn’t Just Pop into Canada for a Visit, They Stayed for Centuries
4,000-Year-Old Butchered Bones Found in Canada Change Known History of
North America

In a letter written by John Day to the anonymous “Lord Grand Admiral,”
who many believe was Christopher Columbus , the merchant said the land
John Cabot discovered was “the mainland that the Bristol men found” in
1481. And so far as to why Day didn’t announce his discovery is
concerned, it is thought that he might have tried to keep the
whereabouts of the bountiful fishing grounds a secret for as long as
possible.

Might one of the hundreds of Bristol merchants and navigators who sailed
in the western sea before John Cabot have landed in Newfoundland? If so,
did they perhaps acquire something from an indigenous trader and leave a
gold coin behind? The questions are many, but for now, there stands a
chance this medieval coin is the smoking gun providing evidence of
pre-Cabot Europeans in North America .

Top image: Both sides of the medieval coin found in Canada, a Henry VI
quarter noble minted in London between 1422 and 1427. Source: Government
of Newfoundland & Labrador

By Ashley Cowie

rian, author, and documentary filmmaker presenting original perspectives
on historical problems in accessible and exciting ways.

He was raised in Wick, a small fishing village in the county of
Caithness on the north east coast of... Read More

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> from
> https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
>
> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
>

I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were working on the
grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in some
landings on Newfoundland.

Why anyone would carry a coin worth a month's wages on such a voyage is something
I don't understand.

William Hyde

On 11/19/22 14:18, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
>> from
>>
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
>>
>> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
>>
>
> I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were
working on the
> grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in
some
> landings on Newfoundland.
>

Yes, most of us readers would think this fishing would have resulted
in landings much before 1492. But,, yet,,, they never claim to have.

On September 7 2022, I posted on this newsgroup, about this interesting
book I'd read:
Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name
by Rodney Broome
from
https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Incognita-True-Story-America/dp/0944638228

And this very interesting book gives one very possible & likely
reason. If they had brought in fish from another country (i.e. Iceland
or Portugal) they would have had to pay the crown a special duty.
So, is was much cheaper, and profitable for them to have just gone
out on the open ocean and caught these fish!!
Strange how government taxes alter the historical record!

> Why anyone would carry a coin worth a month's wages on such a voyage
is something
> I don't understand.
> William Hyde

Except, if they were doing major trade transactions!

So, the prior written records / (fictions!) was that a merchant would
send his ship from Bristol England, loaded with spoiled wine (vinigar)
and salt to sea, where they met up with a fishing fleet, and traded
their cargo for dried / keged / salted / compressed fish, and did
the trade, and returned.
Sure sounds like they might have landed on soil and had a trade house!

What do you think William?

On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> On 11/19/22 14:18, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> >> from
> >>
> https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
> >>
> >> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
> >>
> >
> > I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were
> working on the
> > grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in
> some
> > landings on Newfoundland.
> >
> Yes, most of us readers would think this fishing would have resulted
> in landings much before 1492. But,, yet,,, they never claim to have.

As I understand it the idea is that they wanted to keep the fishing grounds as
little known as possible. With only a few fishermen there would be no
question of claiming lands and meeting native resistance. As long as
the interlopers did not claim large amounts of land for farming relations
might well have stayed quite peaceful.

>
> On September 7 2022, I posted on this newsgroup, about this interesting
> book I'd read:
> Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name
> by Rodney Broome
> from
> https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Incognita-True-Story-America/dp/0944638228
>
> And this very interesting book gives one very possible & likely
> reason. If they had brought in fish from another country (i.e. Iceland
> or Portugal) they would have had to pay the crown a special duty.
> So, is was much cheaper, and profitable for them to have just gone
> out on the open ocean and caught these fish!!
> Strange how government taxes alter the historical record!

Much of the English trade with Greenland went unrecorded for the same reasons.

> > Why anyone would carry a coin worth a month's wages on such a voyage
> is something
> > I don't understand.
> > William Hyde
> Except, if they were doing major trade transactions!
>
> So, the prior written records / (fictions!) was that a merchant would
> send his ship from Bristol England, loaded with spoiled wine (vinigar)
> and salt to sea, where they met up with a fishing fleet, and traded
> their cargo for dried / keged / salted / compressed fish, and did
> the trade, and returned.

I would think the other way around would be more plausible. The English
exported fish, and imported wine (and possibly vinegar). Their other big
export item was wool, of which Iberia itself had plenty, so I am not sure
what the English would trade. Possibly they fished, but also bought
some wine (hence the coins) and the wine was smuggled in.

> Sure sounds like they might have landed on soil and had a trade house!
>
> What do you think William?

It sounds plausible. Avoiding customs duties and various regulations was
standard practice. In one case Irish customs duties went from 6000 pounds
to near zero in a couple of decades, though the trade was still doing well.
This was circa 1400, when six thousand pounds was a significant sum.

William Hyde

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 11:48:37 PM UTC, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> > On 11/19/22 14:18, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> > >> from
> > >>
> > https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
> > >>
> > >> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
> > >>
> > >
> > > I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were
> > working on the
> > > grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in
> > some
> > > landings on Newfoundland.
> > >
> > Yes, most of us readers would think this fishing would have resulted
> > in landings much before 1492. But,, yet,,, they never claim to have.
> As I understand it the idea is that they wanted to keep the fishing grounds as
> little known as possible. With only a few fishermen there would be no
> question of claiming lands and meeting native resistance. As long as
> the interlopers did not claim large amounts of land for farming relations
> might well have stayed quite peaceful.
> >
> > On September 7 2022, I posted on this newsgroup, about this interesting
> > book I'd read:
> > Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name
> > by Rodney Broome
> > from
> > https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Incognita-True-Story-America/dp/0944638228
> >
> > And this very interesting book gives one very possible & likely
> > reason. If they had brought in fish from another country (i.e. Iceland
> > or Portugal) they would have had to pay the crown a special duty.
> > So, is was much cheaper, and profitable for them to have just gone
> > out on the open ocean and caught these fish!!
> > Strange how government taxes alter the historical record!
> Much of the English trade with Greenland went unrecorded for the same reasons.
> > > Why anyone would carry a coin worth a month's wages on such a voyage
> > is something
> > > I don't understand.
> > > William Hyde
> > Except, if they were doing major trade transactions!
> >
> > So, the prior written records / (fictions!) was that a merchant would
> > send his ship from Bristol England, loaded with spoiled wine (vinigar)
> > and salt to sea, where they met up with a fishing fleet, and traded
> > their cargo for dried / keged / salted / compressed fish, and did
> > the trade, and returned.
> I would think the other way around would be more plausible. The English
> exported fish, and imported wine (and possibly vinegar). Their other big
> export item was wool, of which Iberia itself had plenty, so I am not sure
> what the English would trade. Possibly they fished, but also bought
> some wine (hence the coins) and the wine was smuggled in.
> > Sure sounds like they might have landed on soil and had a trade house!
> >
> > What do you think William?
> It sounds plausible. Avoiding customs duties and various regulations was
> standard practice. In one case Irish customs duties went from 6000 pounds
> to near zero in a couple of decades, though the trade was still doing well.
> This was circa 1400, when six thousand pounds was a significant sum.
>
> William Hyde

Indeed - over £4 million!

On 11/28/22 01:10, Surreyman wrote:
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 11:48:37 PM UTC, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
>>> On 11/19/22 14:18, William Hyde wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple
wrote:
>>>>> from
>>>>>
>>>
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
>>>>>
>>>>> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were
>>> working on the
>>>> grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in
>>> some
>>>> landings on Newfoundland.
>>>>
>>> Yes, most of us readers would think this fishing would have resulted
>>> in landings much before 1492. But,, yet,,, they never claim to have.
>> As I understand it the idea is that they wanted to keep the fishing
grounds as
>> little known as possible. -----
>>>
>>> On September 7 2022, I posted on this newsgroup, about this interesting
>>> book I'd read:
>>> Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name
>>> by Rodney Broome
>>> from
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Incognita-True-Story-America/dp/0944638228
>>>
---------------
>>> So, the prior written records / (fictions!) was that a merchant would
>>> send his ship from Bristol England, loaded with spoiled wine (vinigar)
>>> and salt to sea, where they met up with a fishing fleet, and traded
>>> their cargo for dried / keged / salted / compressed fish, and did
>>> the trade, and returned.

>> I would think the other way around would be more plausible. The English
>> exported fish, and imported wine (and possibly vinegar). Their other
big

Yes,,, the manifests I was recalling showed the Bristol ships had gotten
cargos of 'spoiled wine' from Portugal, then stopped back at Bristol,
then on to the fishing areas.

The book has quite a few specifics of what goods were hauled and
traded to

>> export item was wool, of which Iberia itself had plenty, so I am not
sure
>> what the English would trade. Possibly they fished, but also bought
>> some wine (hence the coins) and the wine was smuggled in.
>>> Sure sounds like they might have landed on soil and had a trade house!
>>>
>>> What do you think William?
>> It sounds plausible. Avoiding customs duties and various regulations was
>> standard practice. In one case Irish customs duties went from 6000
pounds
>> to near zero in a couple of decades, though the trade was still
doing well.
>> This was circa 1400, when six thousand pounds was a significant sum.
>> William Hyde
>
> Indeed - over £4 million!

It is good to hear from you Surreyman.
Do you ever visit Bristol?
The above book has a number of interesting comments about
trading ships and Bristol 1450-1550. Sail up the estuary,
wait for row boats to pull them with the tide, up river
to tie up to the dock in Bristol, then settle on the river
bottom as the tide goes out.

Interesting to me anyway.
Also interesting is that my current satellite pictures
on Google maps of Bristol, show the River Avon at this
described low tide. And show the need of the later
built Cumberland Basin, protected by locks.

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 6:42:59 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
> On 11/28/22 01:10, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 11:48:37 PM UTC, William Hyde wrote:
> >> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> >>> On 11/19/22 14:18, William Hyde wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:58:48 AM UTC-5, a425couple
> wrote:
> >>>>> from
> >>>>>
> >>>
> https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-coin-canada-0017528
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Medieval Coin in Canada Challenges Story of North American Discovery
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought it was generally accepted that European fishermen were
> >>> working on the
> >>>> grand banks long before 1492 and that this would inevitably result in
> >>> some
> >>>> landings on Newfoundland.
> >>>>
> >>> Yes, most of us readers would think this fishing would have resulted
> >>> in landings much before 1492. But,, yet,,, they never claim to have.
> >> As I understand it the idea is that they wanted to keep the fishing
> grounds as
> >> little known as possible. -----
> >>>
> >>> On September 7 2022, I posted on this newsgroup, about this interesting
> >>> book I'd read:
> >>> Terra Incognita: The True Story of How America Got Its Name
> >>> by Rodney Broome
> >>> from
> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Incognita-True-Story-America/dp/0944638228
> >>>
> ---------------
> >>> So, the prior written records / (fictions!) was that a merchant would
> >>> send his ship from Bristol England, loaded with spoiled wine (vinigar)
> >>> and salt to sea, where they met up with a fishing fleet, and traded
> >>> their cargo for dried / keged / salted / compressed fish, and did
> >>> the trade, and returned.
>
> >> I would think the other way around would be more plausible. The English
> >> exported fish, and imported wine (and possibly vinegar). Their other
> big
> Yes,,, the manifests I was recalling showed the Bristol ships had gotten
> cargos of 'spoiled wine' from Portugal, then stopped back at Bristol,
> then on to the fishing areas.
>
> The book has quite a few specifics of what goods were hauled and
> traded to
> >> export item was wool, of which Iberia itself had plenty, so I am not
> sure
> >> what the English would trade. Possibly they fished, but also bought
> >> some wine (hence the coins) and the wine was smuggled in.
> >>> Sure sounds like they might have landed on soil and had a trade house!
> >>>
> >>> What do you think William?
> >> It sounds plausible. Avoiding customs duties and various regulations was
> >> standard practice. In one case Irish customs duties went from 6000
> pounds
> >> to near zero in a couple of decades, though the trade was still
> doing well.
> >> This was circa 1400, when six thousand pounds was a significant sum.
> >> William Hyde
> >
> > Indeed - over £4 million!
> It is good to hear from you Surreyman.
> Do you ever visit Bristol?
> The above book has a number of interesting comments about
> trading ships and Bristol 1450-1550. Sail up the estuary,
> wait for row boats to pull them with the tide, up river
> to tie up to the dock in Bristol, then settle on the river
> bottom as the tide goes out.
>
> Interesting to me anyway.
> Also interesting is that my current satellite pictures
> on Google maps of Bristol, show the River Avon at this
> described low tide. And show the need of the later
> built Cumberland Basin, protected by locks.

The nearest I usually get is when crossing the Severn Bridge when commuting between Surrey and Caerphilly.
But all the mud flats across the massive Severn at low tide are indicative enough of the problems Bristol must have!