Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
phone book.

Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
I would get them by USPS.
The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.

They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
"YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
>searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
>directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
>phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
>my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
>phone book.

>Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
>and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
>the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
>Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
>I would get them by USPS.
>The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
>take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.

>They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
>publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
>"YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.

Around here, the yellow pages and white pages business listings were
still being printed but residential white pages have been print on
demand for a decade.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
>>searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
>>directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
>>phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
>>my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
>>phone book.
>
>>Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
>>and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
>>the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
>>Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
>>I would get them by USPS.
>>The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
>>take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.
>
>>They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
>>publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
>>"YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.
>
> Around here, the yellow pages and white pages business listings were
> still being printed but residential white pages have been print on
> demand for a decade.

I have noted that the yellow pages I got today have been not listing
even in their white page sections businesses that I know for a fact
are still up and running...apparently some businesses have decided
they lose nothing worth losing by not being listed at all.
Sad.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
>>>searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
>>>directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
>>>phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
>>>my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
>>>phone book.

>>>Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
>>>and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
>>>the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
>>>Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
>>>I would get them by USPS.
>>>The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
>>>take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.

>>>They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
>>>publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
>>>"YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.

>>Around here, the yellow pages and white pages business listings were
>>still being printed but residential white pages have been print on
>>demand for a decade.

>I have noted that the yellow pages I got today have been not listing
>even in their white page sections businesses that I know for a fact
>are still up and running...apparently some businesses have decided
>they lose nothing worth losing by not being listed at all.
>Sad.

They don't list for businesses on VoIP services that no longer subscribe
to services of the incumbent telephone company. That's why the white
pages listings have gotten so thin.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
>>>>searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
>>>>directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
>>>>phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
>>>>my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
>>>>phone book.
>
>>>>Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
>>>>and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
>>>>the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
>>>>Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
>>>>I would get them by USPS.
>>>>The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
>>>>take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.
>
>>>>They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
>>>>publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
>>>>"YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.
>
>>>Around here, the yellow pages and white pages business listings were
>>>still being printed but residential white pages have been print on
>>>demand for a decade.
>
>>I have noted that the yellow pages I got today have been not listing
>>even in their white page sections businesses that I know for a fact
>>are still up and running...apparently some businesses have decided
>>they lose nothing worth losing by not being listed at all.
>>Sad.
>
> They don't list for businesses on VoIP services that no longer subscribe
> to services of the incumbent telephone company. That's why the white
> pages listings have gotten so thin.

For example,Suburban Propane (large provider) is missing while Putnam
Propane (small upstart competitor) is listed.
So Suburban Propane no longer uses Verizon?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On 3/5/2024 11:09 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Unlike the yahoos who somehow got into their heads that doing web
>>>>> searches was an adequate substitute for having an actual telephone
>>>>> directory to leaf through,I have been nothing but annoyed by the
>>>>> phone company no longer regularly delivering an annual local (and
>>>>> my choice of whatever nearby books I wanted,sometimes for a charge)
>>>>> phone book.
>>
>>>>> Six years after the most recent addition to my collection,I had enough
>>>>> and called the successor entity to the directory publisher...and today
>>>>> the "Real Yellow Pages" for Northern Westchester/Putnam/Greenwich and
>>>>> Dutchess were delivered by FedEx,two weeks before the order-taker said
>>>>> I would get them by USPS.
>>>>> The residential books are now print-on-demand and I was told it could
>>>>> take 6 weeks from the order date...we'll see.
>>
>>>>> They're thinner than in former days,but still there...I note the
>>>>> publishers hedge their bets by promoting yellowpages.com and the
>>>>> "YP app",but it's good to have one newer than the 2017.
>>
>>>> Around here, the yellow pages and white pages business listings were
>>>> still being printed but residential white pages have been print on
>>>> demand for a decade.
>>
>>> I have noted that the yellow pages I got today have been not listing
>>> even in their white page sections businesses that I know for a fact
>>> are still up and running...apparently some businesses have decided
>>> they lose nothing worth losing by not being listed at all.
>>> Sad.
>>
>> They don't list for businesses on VoIP services that no longer subscribe
>> to services of the incumbent telephone company. That's why the white
>> pages listings have gotten so thin.
>
> For example,Suburban Propane (large provider) is missing while Putnam
> Propane (small upstart competitor) is listed.
> So Suburban Propane no longer uses Verizon?

Unless the business model has changed in
recent years the Yellow Pages were always
an advertising medium, not a reference
directory; businesses had to pay to be
listed, with the majority also buying the
display ads which were the bulk of the
space of the book. It didn't matter which
phone service the company used (and of
course for most of the past that wasn't
even an issue). Still, by chance I have
just above my head a stack of Verizon
White Pages and Yellowbooks.com books from
8-10 years ago and already they had shrunk
from the two-inch-thick tabloid books we
grew up with to something more on the
order of trade paperbacks. The bigger
issue these days is that the actual phone
company directory databases are no longer
available online as they were (for free)
20 years ago. Now if one wants to look
up a phone number one gets a redaction
thereof and a demand to buy a full public
records report on the person in question
from a variety of data miners whose
listings are largely erroneous and who
refuse to make corrections to them even
if you can reach them.

In <aU-dnVqR4IZ9AnX4nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> writes:

>Unless the business model has changed in
>recent years the Yellow Pages were always
>an advertising medium, not a reference
>directory; businesses had to pay to be
>listed, with the majority also buying the
>display ads which were the bulk of the
>space of the book.

In NYC, at least (presumably most, if not all,
of the One System, It Works, Bell Telephone),
if you had a "business line", which was more
expensive than residential, you got the
basic one line listing in the Yellow Pages
included at no extra cost.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>Unless the business model has changed in
>recent years the Yellow Pages were always
>an advertising medium, not a reference
>directory; businesses had to pay to be
>listed, with the majority also buying the
>display ads which were the bulk of the
>space of the book.

Not correct. Every business subscriber of the incumbent phone company got
a free listing per main telephone number at each location. He could request
a classification or it would be assigned. The Yellow Pages were contracted
to specific phone companies and telephone geography. If a business wanted
to be listed not a subscriber to that telephone company and/or outside
the geographical area, it had to be set up in the list provided to the
Yellow Pages advertising bureau. Typically this required payment of
foreign listing fee and the business would also appear in the white pages.

The majority of business subscribers did not buy display ads as they
were hideously expensive. In-column ads were cheaper, but even minimal
advertising like use of bold print cost hundreds of dollars a year.

There were of course business with nationwide advertising accounts that
placed listings in telephone directories throughout the country.

>It didn't matter which phone service the company used (and of course
>for most of the past that wasn't even an issue).

Yes, it did. If the directory publisher wasn't contracted to display
listings of both white and yellow pages with a specific telephone
company, the desired listing could be accomodated only as a foreign
listing. In most states, there had been state laws imposed on incumbent
telephone companies and sometimes cable telephony requiring distribution
of phone directories. These laws did not apply to VoIP and these numbers
are generally not included for free.

When there were alternate directory publishers, the listings they
included were under their own rules and not subject to state law.

>. . .

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>Unless the business model has changed in
>>recent years the Yellow Pages were always
>>an advertising medium, not a reference
>>directory; businesses had to pay to be
>>listed, with the majority also buying the
>>display ads which were the bulk of the
>>space of the book.
>
> Not correct. Every business subscriber of the incumbent phone company got
> a free listing per main telephone number at each location. He could request
> a classification or it would be assigned. The Yellow Pages were contracted
> to specific phone companies and telephone geography. If a business wanted
> to be listed not a subscriber to that telephone company and/or outside
> the geographical area, it had to be set up in the list provided to the
> Yellow Pages advertising bureau. Typically this required payment of
> foreign listing fee and the business would also appear in the white pages.
>
> The majority of business subscribers did not buy display ads as they
> were hideously expensive. In-column ads were cheaper, but even minimal
> advertising like use of bold print cost hundreds of dollars a year.
>
> There were of course business with nationwide advertising accounts that
> placed listings in telephone directories throughout the country.
>
>>It didn't matter which phone service the company used (and of course
>>for most of the past that wasn't even an issue).
>
> Yes, it did. If the directory publisher wasn't contracted to display
> listings of both white and yellow pages with a specific telephone
> company, the desired listing could be accomodated only as a foreign
> listing. In most states, there had been state laws imposed on incumbent
> telephone companies and sometimes cable telephony requiring distribution
> of phone directories. These laws did not apply to VoIP and these numbers
> are generally not included for free.
>
> When there were alternate directory publishers, the listings they
> included were under their own rules and not subject to state law.
>

My new (2023 edition) Yellow Pages have a white-page section yet
existing businesses are not all in it.
I note that the yellow-page section has fewer display ads than in
days of yore...the white-page section continues to have some highlighted
entries (I used to pay for that for my ISP).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Hear, hear, Louis--you're far from the only one who misses telephone directories!

BUT: their well-on-its-way extinction raises this question:

Why oh why has no cyber guy looking for a huge start-up capitalization has yet took it upon himself to compile an online white-pages-style listing of CELL phone numbers?

(Yeah, I realize many people change their mobile phone numbers more often than they do their guitar strings, but it still seems to me that a fairly-current rostering could be effectuated with the proper coding, no?)

Anyone know why this billion-dollar idea hasn't been attempted?

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

bryan_styble <radioactiveseattle@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hear, hear, Louis--you're far from the only one who misses telephone directories!
>
> BUT: their well-on-its-way extinction raises this question:
>
> Why oh why has no cyber guy looking for a huge start-up capitalization has yet took it upon himself to compile an online white-pages-style listing of CELL phone numbers?
>
> (Yeah, I realize many people change their mobile phone numbers more often than they do their guitar strings, but it still seems to me that a fairly-current rostering could be effectuated with the proper coding, no?)
>
> Anyone know why this billion-dollar idea hasn't been attempted?

Are the cellphone service providers under any obligation to make directories of their users available?
> BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>. . .
>>
>>>Unless the business model has changed in
>>>recent years the Yellow Pages were always
>>>an advertising medium, not a reference
>>>directory; businesses had to pay to be
>>>listed, with the majority also buying the
>>>display ads which were the bulk of the
>>>space of the book.
>>
>> Not correct. Every business subscriber of the incumbent phone company got
>> a free listing per main telephone number at each location. He could request
>> a classification or it would be assigned. The Yellow Pages were contracted
>> to specific phone companies and telephone geography. If a business wanted
>> to be listed not a subscriber to that telephone company and/or outside
>> the geographical area, it had to be set up in the list provided to the
>> Yellow Pages advertising bureau. Typically this required payment of
>> foreign listing fee and the business would also appear in the white pages.
>>
>> The majority of business subscribers did not buy display ads as they
>> were hideously expensive. In-column ads were cheaper, but even minimal
>> advertising like use of bold print cost hundreds of dollars a year.
>>
>> There were of course business with nationwide advertising accounts that
>> placed listings in telephone directories throughout the country.
>>
>>>It didn't matter which phone service the company used (and of course
>>>for most of the past that wasn't even an issue).
>>
>> Yes, it did. If the directory publisher wasn't contracted to display
>> listings of both white and yellow pages with a specific telephone
>> company, the desired listing could be accomodated only as a foreign
>> listing. In most states, there had been state laws imposed on incumbent
>> telephone companies and sometimes cable telephony requiring distribution
>> of phone directories. These laws did not apply to VoIP and these numbers
>> are generally not included for free.
>>
>> When there were alternate directory publishers, the listings they
>> included were under their own rules and not subject to state law.
>>
>
> My new (2023 edition) Yellow Pages have a white-page section yet
> existing businesses are not all in it.
> I note that the yellow-page section has fewer display ads than in
> days of yore...the white-page section continues to have some highlighted
> entries (I used to pay for that for my ISP).

My White Pages arrived today.
The Westchester-Putnam + Greenwich book is TWO VOLUMES,with a
business listing section (significantly longer than the one in
the Yellow Pages but still not including Suburban Propane)
taking up most of the first volume,which begins with the
traditional phone-company-information section and ends with
residential listings up to Marc Fried,and the second volume
being residential listings from Marion Fried onwards.

> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>. . .
>>>
>>>>Unless the business model has changed in
>>>>recent years the Yellow Pages were always
>>>>an advertising medium, not a reference
>>>>directory; businesses had to pay to be
>>>>listed, with the majority also buying the
>>>>display ads which were the bulk of the
>>>>space of the book.
>>>
>>> Not correct. Every business subscriber of the incumbent phone company got
>>> a free listing per main telephone number at each location. He could request
>>> a classification or it would be assigned. The Yellow Pages were contracted
>>> to specific phone companies and telephone geography. If a business wanted
>>> to be listed not a subscriber to that telephone company and/or outside
>>> the geographical area, it had to be set up in the list provided to the
>>> Yellow Pages advertising bureau. Typically this required payment of
>>> foreign listing fee and the business would also appear in the white pages.
>>>
>>> The majority of business subscribers did not buy display ads as they
>>> were hideously expensive. In-column ads were cheaper, but even minimal
>>> advertising like use of bold print cost hundreds of dollars a year.
>>>
>>> There were of course business with nationwide advertising accounts that
>>> placed listings in telephone directories throughout the country.
>>>
>>>>It didn't matter which phone service the company used (and of course
>>>>for most of the past that wasn't even an issue).
>>>
>>> Yes, it did. If the directory publisher wasn't contracted to display
>>> listings of both white and yellow pages with a specific telephone
>>> company, the desired listing could be accomodated only as a foreign
>>> listing. In most states, there had been state laws imposed on incumbent
>>> telephone companies and sometimes cable telephony requiring distribution
>>> of phone directories. These laws did not apply to VoIP and these numbers
>>> are generally not included for free.
>>>
>>> When there were alternate directory publishers, the listings they
>>> included were under their own rules and not subject to state law.
>>>
>>
>> My new (2023 edition) Yellow Pages have a white-page section yet
>> existing businesses are not all in it.
>> I note that the yellow-page section has fewer display ads than in
>> days of yore...the white-page section continues to have some highlighted
>> entries (I used to pay for that for my ISP).
>
> My White Pages arrived today.
> The Westchester-Putnam + Greenwich book is TWO VOLUMES,with a
> business listing section (significantly longer than the one in
> the Yellow Pages but still not including Suburban Propane)
> taking up most of the first volume,which begins with the
> traditional phone-company-information section and ends with
> residential listings up to Marc Fried,and the second volume
> being residential listings from Marion Fried onwards.

Forgot to mention:
The third-generation phone number that has been billed to
me for years (and the book was mailed addressed to me) is
LISTED in the names of my late parents.

>> -=-=-
>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.