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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

SubjectAuthor
* The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
+- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
+* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameUbiquitous
|`* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
| `* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameUbiquitous
|  `- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
`* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameZaghadka
 +- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
 +* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameSpalls Hurgenson
 |+- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gamekyonshi
 |`- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameZaghadka
 `* Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameUbiquitous
  `- Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying gameZaghadka

1
The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:58:13 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 19 Jan 2024 16:58 UTC

We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
It was likely not someone coming up with the idea independently though,
a local gamer had played with Dave Arneson's group before and brought
the concept to Minneapolis. The author of DUNGEON Craig VanGrasstek
collected the variants into a ruleset and published them to share with
the wider world. But of course the existence of DnD brought all that to
an end.
I wonder if other variants were around at the time as well.

http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html

and here is a copy of the rules as pdf

http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html

Does anyone have some more information about that old Minneapolis scene?

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 19:29:12 +0100
Organization: Campaign Wiki
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 19 Jan 2024 18:29 UTC

On 1/19/2024 5:58 PM, kyonshi wrote:

>
> and here is a copy of the rules as pdf
>
> http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html

Of course only after posting it I realized that the link to the pdf in
the article doesn't work. Thank the Gods that Wayback Machine exists:
https://web.archive.org/web/20191222015731/http://www.unreason.com/files/RulesToTheGameOfDungeon.pdf

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: web...@polaris.net (Ubiquitous)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
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 by: Ubiquitous - Tue, 6 Feb 2024 09:30 UTC

gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:

>We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.

Was FANTASY ROLE PLAYING before or after D&D?

--
Let's go Brandon!

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2024 15:25:59 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Tue, 6 Feb 2024 14:25 UTC

On 2/6/2024 10:30 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>> information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>> gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>> the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>> without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>
> Was FANTASY ROLE PLAYING before or after D&D?
>
> --
> Let's go Brandon!
>

Doesn't tell me anything right now. Do you mean Fantasy Wargaming: The
Highest Level of All? (which despite it's name is an rpg and not a wargame)

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: web...@polaris.net (Ubiquitous)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
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 by: Ubiquitous - Tue, 6 Feb 2024 15:42 UTC

gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:
> On 2/6/2024 10:30 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:

>>> We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>>> information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>>> gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>>> the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>>> without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>>
>> Was FANTASY ROLE PLAYING before or after D&D?
>
>Doesn't tell me anything right now. Do you mean Fantasy Wargaming: The
>Highest Level of All? (which despite it's name is an rpg and not a wargame)

Yeah, that's the one! HORRIBLE game mechanics but very historically accurate.

--
Let's go Brandon!

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:34:13 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Wed, 7 Feb 2024 10:34 UTC

On 2/6/2024 4:42 PM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 2/6/2024 10:30 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> gmkeros@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>> We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>>>> information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>>>> gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>>>> the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>>>> without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>>>
>>> Was FANTASY ROLE PLAYING before or after D&D?
>>
>> Doesn't tell me anything right now. Do you mean Fantasy Wargaming: The
>> Highest Level of All? (which despite it's name is an rpg and not a wargame)
>
> Yeah, that's the one! HORRIBLE game mechanics but very historically accurate.
>
> --
> Let's go Brandon!
>
>

From what I know that one only came out in 1981.

I listened to a podcast episode about that one a while ago, I think
there was someone who did some academic work on this topic.

Vintage RPG Podcast Episode:
https://www.vintagerpg.com/2020/02/fantasy-wargaming/

There's also a free pdf of a book about it at Carnegie Mellon University
Press https://press.etc.cmu.edu/books/highest-level-all

In any case, this might have been more widespread because it was also
published in the Doubleday book club, so more people might have had
access to it that otherwise did not have contact with DnD. On the other
hand this book is DENSE. And one generally doesn't hear about many
people fondly remembering Fantasy Wargaming, so I guess it also wasn't
very successful as a system.

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 7 Feb 2024 16:36 UTC

On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:58:13 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>It was likely not someone coming up with the idea independently though,
>a local gamer had played with Dave Arneson's group before and brought
>the concept to Minneapolis. The author of DUNGEON Craig VanGrasstek
>collected the variants into a ruleset and published them to share with
>the wider world. But of course the existence of DnD brought all that to
>an end.
>I wonder if other variants were around at the time as well.
>
>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html
>
>and here is a copy of the rules as pdf
>
>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html
>
>Does anyone have some more information about that old Minneapolis scene?

And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."

Imagine my disappointment.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
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 by: kyonshi - Sun, 11 Feb 2024 18:43 UTC

On 2/7/2024 5:36 PM, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:58:13 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>> information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>> gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>> the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>> without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>> It was likely not someone coming up with the idea independently though,
>> a local gamer had played with Dave Arneson's group before and brought
>> the concept to Minneapolis. The author of DUNGEON Craig VanGrasstek
>> collected the variants into a ruleset and published them to share with
>> the wider world. But of course the existence of DnD brought all that to
>> an end.
>> I wonder if other variants were around at the time as well.
>>
>> http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html
>>
>> and here is a copy of the rules as pdf
>>
>> http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html
>>
>> Does anyone have some more information about that old Minneapolis scene?
>
> And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>
> Imagine my disappointment.
>

I think there's other groups for that.

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 11 Feb 2024 23:50 UTC

On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 10:36:30 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>Imagine my disappointment.

It could be both. If you pay enough, they'll do anything you want.

Well... almost. Even Minneapolis sex workers draw the line at playing
4th Edition. ;-)

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:39:27 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Mon, 12 Feb 2024 08:39 UTC

On 2/12/2024 12:50 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 10:36:30 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>> Imagine my disappointment.
>
> It could be both. If you pay enough, they'll do anything you want.
>
> Well... almost. Even Minneapolis sex workers draw the line at playing
> 4th Edition. ;-)
>
>

I put on my robe and wizard hat...

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:54:18 -0600
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 by: Zaghadka - Mon, 12 Feb 2024 15:54 UTC

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 18:50:33 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 10:36:30 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>>Imagine my disappointment.
>
>It could be both. If you pay enough, they'll do anything you want.
>
>Well... almost. Even Minneapolis sex workers draw the line at playing
>4th Edition. ;-)
>
+1

Truth. I've tried. ;^)

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: web...@polaris.net (Ubiquitous)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 04:30:47 -0500
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 by: Ubiquitous - Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:30 UTC

zaghadka@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:58:13 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>>We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>>information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>>gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>>the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>>without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>>It was likely not someone coming up with the idea independently though,
>>a local gamer had played with Dave Arneson's group before and brought
>>the concept to Minneapolis. The author of DUNGEON Craig VanGrasstek
>>collected the variants into a ruleset and published them to share with
>>the wider world. But of course the existence of DnD brought all that to
>>an end.
>>I wonder if other variants were around at the time as well.
>>
>>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html
>>
>>and here is a copy of the rules as pdf
>>
>>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html
>>
>>Does anyone have some more information about that old Minneapolis scene?
>
>And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>
>Imagine my disappointment.

I think Phil and Dixie covered that sufficiently.

--
Let's go Brandon!

Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 10:54:15 -0600
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 by: Zaghadka - Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:54 UTC

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 04:30:47 -0500, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
wrote:

>zaghadka@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:58:13 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>We were joking around on Mastodon about posting slightly wrong
>>>information to get people to interact, when I remembered this particular
>>>gem from Peterson's site: Rules for the Game of DUNGEON (1974) is likely
>>>the second roleplaying game ever published, and the author did so
>>>without knowing of the existence of Dungeons and Dragons.
>>>It was likely not someone coming up with the idea independently though,
>>>a local gamer had played with Dave Arneson's group before and brought
>>>the concept to Minneapolis. The author of DUNGEON Craig VanGrasstek
>>>collected the variants into a ruleset and published them to share with
>>>the wider world. But of course the existence of DnD brought all that to
>>>an end.
>>>I wonder if other variants were around at the time as well.
>>>
>>>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html
>>>
>>>and here is a copy of the rules as pdf
>>>
>>>http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2014/08/1974-dungeon-variant-now-for-download.html
>>>
>>>Does anyone have some more information about that old Minneapolis scene?
>>
>>And here I thought it had something to do with "prostitution."
>>
>>Imagine my disappointment.
>
>I think Phil and Dixie covered that sufficiently.

LOL. Point McEnroe!

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: The SECOND oldest roleplaying game

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