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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip

SubjectAuthor
* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
+* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidtrader_4
|`* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidFrank
| +* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidtrader_4
| |`* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidRalph Mowery
| | +* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidFrank
| | |`* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
| | | +* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidRalph Mowery
| | | |`* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
| | | | `- OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
| | | `- OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
| | `- OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
| `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
|  `- OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
`* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidTimR
 `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
  `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
   `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
    +* lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile GossipKlaus Schadenfreude
    |+- lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile GossipEd Pawlowski
    |`* lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile GossipT
    | `* lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossiprbowman
    |  `- lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile GossipFrank
    `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT
     `* OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidrbowman
      `- OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bidT

Pages:12
OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t3ne2i$644$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 15:45:37 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:45 UTC

Hi All,

It is now official:

Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
Finally!

https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/

And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.

Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:

US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg

I want one! Civilian version, of course.

My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
and millions of moving parts.

-T

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<60ef38d7-e41d-443c-934b-73636e6b3f6cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:31 UTC

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It is now official:
>
> Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
> Finally!
>
> https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/
>
> And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
> M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.
>
> Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:
>
> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
>
>
> I want one! Civilian version, of course.
>
> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
> and millions of moving parts.
>
> -T

Even the Army won't buy American.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t3p0nd$gql$2@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:10:05 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:10 UTC

On 4/20/2022 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> It is now official:
>>
>> Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
>> Finally!
>>
>> https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/
>>
>> And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
>> M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.
>>
>> Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:
>>
>> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
>>
>>
>> I want one! Civilian version, of course.
>>
>> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
>> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
>> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
>> and millions of moving parts.
>>
>> -T
>
> Even the Army won't buy American.
>
>
I am pretty sure that they would have to be manufactured in US. I think
Sigs are the current sidearm.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<31a17f38-c733-4912-aa78-4a1ce3fe50a4n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:56 UTC

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 9:10:11 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On 4/20/2022 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> It is now official:
> >>
> >> Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
> >> Finally!
> >>
> >> https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/
> >>
> >> And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
> >> M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.
> >>
> >> Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:
> >>
> >> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
> >>
> >>
> >> I want one! Civilian version, of course.
> >>
> >> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
> >> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
> >> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
> >> and millions of moving parts.
> >>
> >> -T
> >
> > Even the Army won't buy American.
> >
> >
> I am pretty sure that they would have to be manufactured in US. I think
> Sigs are the current sidearm.

I did some Goggling and while it was hard to find anything definitive as to
what they make and where, I finally found this:

"Tom Taylor, SIG Sauer’s chief marketing officer and executive vice president of commercial sales, succinctly summed this up: “SIG Sauer is an American company, and our firearms are 100 percent manufactured in the USA. Beyond that, and an even lesser known fact, is that SIG Sauer ammunition is made in Arkansas, while SIG Electro-Optics are made in Oregon.”

I had no idea they made any guns here at all. IMO, they are the best
pistols. Couple years ago I sold my S&W Model 59 9mm from the 70s
online, qyuite a bidding war going on, got $725 for it. I couldn't believe it.
Modern Sigs new were going for less. I don't get it. I never liked that S&W,
very heavy trigger, nothing
special that I see, other than walnut grips. The Sig is a great gun,
far more refined. It was the gun used by the Secret Service for a couple
decades, but I see they have now switched to the Glock. IMO Glocks
are OK, but just an average gun, while the Sig is more refined and better.
The trigger pull on the Sig is much nicer, I've never been a fan of the
split trigger design, with no real safety.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<jcandlFokooU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:33:10 -0600
Lines: 45
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 by: rbowman - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:33 UTC

On 04/20/2022 07:10 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 4/20/2022 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> It is now official:
>>>
>>> Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
>>> Finally!
>>>
>>> https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/
>>>
>>>
>>> And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
>>> M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.
>>>
>>> Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:
>>>
>>> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
>>>
>>>
>>> I want one! Civilian version, of course.
>>>
>>> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
>>> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
>>> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
>>> and millions of moving parts.
>>>
>>> -T
>>
>> Even the Army won't buy American.
>>
>>
> I am pretty sure that they would have to be manufactured in US. I think
> Sigs are the current sidearm.

https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/us-army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapons-system

SIG Sauer Inc. is in Newington NH. L&O Holding gmbH owns SIG Sauer gmbH
and SIG Sauer Inc but they are separate entities.

I believe they're located at the old Pease AFB property. The base was
closed in '91 and was a loss to the local economy.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<MPG.3cc9f41acd6e6101989c48@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: rmower...@charter.net (Ralph Mowery)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 11:43:10 -0400
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 by: Ralph Mowery - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:43 UTC

In article <31a17f38-c733-4912-aa78-4a1ce3fe50a4n@googlegroups.com>,
trader4@optonline.net says...
>
> I had no idea they made any guns here at all. IMO, they are the best
> pistols. Couple years ago I sold my S&W Model 59 9mm from the 70s
> online, qyuite a bidding war going on, got $725 for it. I couldn't believe it.
> Modern Sigs new were going for less. I don't get it. I never liked that S&W,
> very heavy trigger, nothing
> special that I see, other than walnut grips. The Sig is a great gun,
> far more refined. It was the gun used by the Secret Service for a couple
> decades, but I see they have now switched to the Glock. IMO Glocks
> are OK, but just an average gun, while the Sig is more refined and better.
> The trigger pull on the Sig is much nicer, I've never been a fan of the
> split trigger design, with no real safety.
>
>
>

In my opinion the Glocks are like the AK47. Not the best at anything,
but when you pull the trigger it will fire. That is why I carry the
glock.

Some just like to collect older things and often the bidding goes up
more than what a newer, better item will sell for.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t3pdcr$4c5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:46:18 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 16:46 UTC

On 4/20/2022 11:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <31a17f38-c733-4912-aa78-4a1ce3fe50a4n@googlegroups.com>,
> trader4@optonline.net says...
>>
>> I had no idea they made any guns here at all. IMO, they are the best
>> pistols. Couple years ago I sold my S&W Model 59 9mm from the 70s
>> online, qyuite a bidding war going on, got $725 for it. I couldn't believe it.
>> Modern Sigs new were going for less. I don't get it. I never liked that S&W,
>> very heavy trigger, nothing
>> special that I see, other than walnut grips. The Sig is a great gun,
>> far more refined. It was the gun used by the Secret Service for a couple
>> decades, but I see they have now switched to the Glock. IMO Glocks
>> are OK, but just an average gun, while the Sig is more refined and better.
>> The trigger pull on the Sig is much nicer, I've never been a fan of the
>> split trigger design, with no real safety.
>>
>>
>>
>
> In my opinion the Glocks are like the AK47. Not the best at anything,
> but when you pull the trigger it will fire. That is why I carry the
> glock.
>
> Some just like to collect older things and often the bidding goes up
> more than what a newer, better item will sell for.
>

I do not like the Glock trigger either and there are too many stories
like this one:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3760281/Arkansas-cop-sues-Glock-75-000-shooting-foot-accident-loaded.html

I do not consider a safety built into a trigger with about a four pound
pull a real safety.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<jcbdiaFsqojU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:51:08 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 21:51 UTC

On 04/20/2022 09:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In my opinion the Glocks are like the AK47. Not the best at anything,
> but when you pull the trigger it will fire. That is why I carry the
> glock.

As long as fire isn't ka-boom... Glock is an example of amazing
salesmanship. They targeted cops before the civilian market and were
responsible for moving most departments to semi-automatics, even the
ones who use other brands.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<jcbe1nFst99U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:59:21 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 21:59 UTC

On 04/20/2022 10:46 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 4/20/2022 11:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <31a17f38-c733-4912-aa78-4a1ce3fe50a4n@googlegroups.com>,
>> trader4@optonline.net says...
>>>
>>> I had no idea they made any guns here at all. IMO, they are the best
>>> pistols. Couple years ago I sold my S&W Model 59 9mm from the 70s
>>> online, qyuite a bidding war going on, got $725 for it. I couldn't
>>> believe it.
>>> Modern Sigs new were going for less. I don't get it. I never liked
>>> that S&W,
>>> very heavy trigger, nothing
>>> special that I see, other than walnut grips. The Sig is a great gun,
>>> far more refined. It was the gun used by the Secret Service for a
>>> couple
>>> decades, but I see they have now switched to the Glock. IMO Glocks
>>> are OK, but just an average gun, while the Sig is more refined and
>>> better.
>>> The trigger pull on the Sig is much nicer, I've never been a fan of the
>>> split trigger design, with no real safety.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In my opinion the Glocks are like the AK47. Not the best at anything,
>> but when you pull the trigger it will fire. That is why I carry the
>> glock.
>>
>> Some just like to collect older things and often the bidding goes up
>> more than what a newer, better item will sell for.
>>
>
> I do not like the Glock trigger either and there are too many stories
> like this one:
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3760281/Arkansas-cop-sues-Glock-75-000-shooting-foot-accident-loaded.html
>
>
> I do not consider a safety built into a trigger with about a four pound
> pull a real safety.

I prefer the Springfield Armory XDM series. They have both a trigger and
a grip safety.

That particular case sounds like operator error if he was trying to fit
a light on a loaded weapon but there are documented cases of the Glock
trigger snagging on jacket drawstrings and so forth when trying to
reholster.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<MPG.3cca5b0b9483743a989c4a@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: rmower...@charter.net (Ralph Mowery)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 19:02:20 -0400
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 by: Ralph Mowery - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 23:02 UTC

In article <jcbe1nFst99U1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
says...
>
> I prefer the Springfield Armory XDM series. They have both a trigger and
> a grip safety.
>
> That particular case sounds like operator error if he was trying to fit
> a light on a loaded weapon but there are documented cases of the Glock
> trigger snagging on jacket drawstrings and so forth when trying to
> reholster.
>
>

Operator error can hapen to any gun. Cop took his 1911 out and took the
safety off when he thought he may need to shoot. Forgot about that.
Later he had to take a crap. Hung the 1911 in the coat hook on the
door. Went to get it and managed to fire off 2 rounds.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 19:51:52 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 01:51 UTC

On 04/20/2022 05:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Operator error can hapen to any gun. Cop took his 1911 out and took the
> safety off when he thought he may need to shoot. Forgot about that.
> Later he had to take a crap. Hung the 1911 in the coat hook on the
> door. Went to get it and managed to fire off 2 rounds.

Hard to do that unless the grip safety was pinned. I shoot left handed
and for whatever reason sometimes didn't get it depressed even with the
speed bump. For matches I wrapped a rubber band around it. It wasn't
really designed for the high grip, thumb forward in vogue. My right mitt
is smaller and works fine.

That's part of the history. The original design didn't have but the
target audience was the cavalry and they insisted on the grip safety and
a lanyard ring. They probably didn't care if the trooper blew his foot
off but good horses are hard to come by. A cop pinning the safety is
just looking to get his ass hung out to dry.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t3qjah$ntu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 20:33:37 -0700
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 by: T - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:33 UTC

On 4/20/22 18:51, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/20/2022 05:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> Operator error can hapen to any gun.  Cop took his 1911 out and took the
>> safety off when he thought he may need to shoot.  Forgot about that.
>> Later he had to take a crap.  Hung the 1911 in the coat hook on the
>> door.  Went to get it and managed to fire off 2 rounds.
>
> Hard to do that unless the grip safety was pinned. I shoot left handed
> and for whatever reason sometimes didn't get it depressed even with the
> speed bump. For matches I wrapped a rubber band around it. It wasn't
> really designed for the high grip, thumb forward in vogue. My right mitt
> is smaller and works fine.
>
> That's part of the history. The original design didn't have but the
> target audience was the cavalry and they insisted on the grip safety and
> a lanyard ring. They probably didn't care if the trooper blew his foot
> off but good horses are hard to come by. A cop pinning the safety is
> just looking to get his ass hung out to dry.
>
>
I was wondering myself when I read that.
Also, unless you have a stiff elbow with a 1911,
the fired round stove pipes on eject. Fumbling
like that could only fire off one round.
Not sure the article cited what actually happened.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 20:34:19 -0700
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 by: T - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:34 UTC

On 4/20/22 08:33, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/20/2022 07:10 AM, Frank wrote:
>> On 4/20/2022 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> It is now official:
>>>>
>>>> Army selects Sig Sauer to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon and ammo
>>>> Finally!
>>>>
>>>> https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapon/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And it is a "short stroke piston * system, unlike the M16,
>>>> M4's * I-D-I-O-T-I-C * Direct Impingement system.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a short video (14.06) on the new weapon:
>>>>
>>>> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I want one! Civilian version, of course.
>>>>
>>>> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
>>>> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
>>>> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
>>>> and millions of moving parts.
>>>>
>>>> -T
>>>
>>> Even the Army won't buy American.
>>>
>>>
>> I am pretty sure that they would have to be manufactured in US.  I think
>> Sigs are the current sidearm.
>
> https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/us-army-selects-sig-sauer-next-generation-squad-weapons-system
>
>
> SIG Sauer Inc. is in Newington NH. L&O Holding gmbH owns SIG Sauer gmbH
> and SIG Sauer Inc but they are separate entities.
>
> I believe they're located at the old Pease AFB property. The base was
> closed in '91 and was a loss to the local economy.
FN has American facilities too. John Browning use
to work for them too.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
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 by: T - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:36 UTC

On 4/20/22 14:59, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/20/2022 10:46 AM, Frank wrote:
>> On 4/20/2022 11:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>> In article <31a17f38-c733-4912-aa78-4a1ce3fe50a4n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> trader4@optonline.net says...
>>>>
>>>> I had no idea they made any guns here at all.  IMO, they are the best
>>>> pistols.  Couple years ago I sold my S&W Model 59 9mm from the 70s
>>>> online, qyuite a bidding war going on, got $725 for it.  I couldn't
>>>> believe it.
>>>> Modern Sigs new were going for less.  I don't get it.  I never liked
>>>> that S&W,
>>>>   very heavy trigger, nothing
>>>> special that I see, other than walnut grips.   The Sig is a great gun,
>>>> far more refined.  It was the gun used by the Secret Service for a
>>>> couple
>>>> decades, but I see they have now switched to the Glock.  IMO Glocks
>>>> are OK, but just an average gun, while the Sig is more refined and
>>>> better.
>>>> The trigger pull on the Sig is much nicer, I've never been a fan of the
>>>> split trigger design, with no real safety.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> In my opinion the Glocks are like the AK47.  Not the best at anything,
>>> but when you pull the trigger it will fire.  That is why I  carry the
>>> glock.
>>>
>>> Some just like to collect older things and often  the bidding goes up
>>> more than what a newer, better item will sell for.
>>>
>>
>> I do not like the Glock trigger either and there are too many stories
>> like this one:
>>
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3760281/Arkansas-cop-sues-Glock-75-000-shooting-foot-accident-loaded.html
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not consider a safety built into a trigger with about a four pound
>> pull a real safety.
>
> I prefer the Springfield Armory XDM series. They have both a trigger and
> a grip safety.
>
> That particular case sounds like operator error if he was trying to fit
> a light on a loaded weapon but there are documented cases of the Glock
> trigger snagging on jacket drawstrings and so forth when trying to
> reholster.

I will stick with my 1911A1.
Never could get into plastic (polymer) guns.
I am a YUGE fan of John Browning

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
From: timothy4...@gmail.com (TimR)
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 by: TimR - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 17:18 UTC

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:

>
> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
> and millions of moving parts.
>
> -T

Caseless ammo would be a huge advantage, and it's just about ready for prime time, just like fusion energy. Oh wait............

I'm not a fan of the move to 6.8 but everybody has their own opinion.

Now that the standard sidearm is no longer Beretta M9, will tons of those hit the surplus market? Or is that no longer possible?

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:24:45 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:24 UTC

On 04/23/2022 11:18 AM, TimR wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>
>>
>> My opinion, LoneStar Future Weapons' entry, whilst having
>> a ton of innovative feature, was way to complicated.
>> It is not quite time for plastic ammo and bull pups
>> and millions of moving parts.
>>
>> -T
>
> Caseless ammo would be a huge advantage, and it's just about ready for prime time, just like fusion energy. Oh wait............

https://www.range365.com/failed-gun-ammunition-technology-history/

The first attempt, sort of, was in 1848. Daisy may have come closest
before the ATF reminded them they weren't in the firearms business.

In the '70s I got into a conversation in a motel bar with a person
pitching a product to a nearby defense contractor and the talk turned to
electronic ignitions. I must have been in fine form as I blew smoke. At
least I was good enough that he contacted me the next day with a job
offer. I declined since I didn't think I could replicate my brilliant
ideas sober.

It wasn't that rare for designs to be born on barroom napkins in that
ear. Maybe it still is but I've been out of that scene for a long time.

> I'm not a fan of the move to 6.8 but everybody has their own opinion.

Job security... An interesting metric would be how much more effective
the 6.8 is compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
bad guys in urban fighting.
>
> Now that the standard sidearm is no longer Beretta M9, will tons of those hit the surplus market? Or is that no longer possible?
>

The CMP finally got permission to distribute surplus 1911's in 2018,
with the exemption specifically listing the 1911. I wouldn't hold my
breath waiting for M9's.

More likely when they get sick of falling over crates of M9s they'll
gift them to some third world country that still uses them.

The above question applies to the M17 switch too. How many bad guys were
actually killed with a M9? Is the M17 going to be more effective? It's
still a 9mm. 'Better accuracy' is a moot point particularly in CQC. More
reliable? If the government buys replacement magazines from the cheapest
vendor that may not hold.

Presumably there is a whole entrenched bureaucracy dedicated to finding
the latest, greatest weapon systems. If their considered decision is
'The M9 is good enough' their jobs are redundant. In fact the whole
defense budget boondoggle would be in jeopardy.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 03:01:35 -0700
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 by: T - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:01 UTC

On 4/23/22 14:24, rbowman wrote:
> An interesting metric would be how much more effective the 6.8 is
> compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
> bad guys in urban fighting.
The new Sig has short barrel versions too for
just such a thing. And the recoil is pretty much
the same as the 5.56.
And the 5.56 is can not penetrate cheap body armor.
So, if you want to tickle them to death, go with the
5.56
The 6.8 sig has more knock down power than the 7.62
and weights less (ammo and gun). The 7.62 does penetrate.
The ammo does weight more than the 5.56, but
you don't have to carry around crates of q-tips
to constantly clean out the star chambers of on those
imbecilic direct impingement guns (M4).
Also, the 6.8 will allow to engage at a distance,
rather than having to run through 200 meters of
bullets before your can return fire with a 5.56.
A lot of the ammo problems can be solved by
abandoning the "pray and spray" method and returning
to the "line 'em up and cut them down" method.
These new optics will help a lot in that direction.
The one thing I do not understand is the
reciprocating barrel system on the sig. The sights
are set to the rail, not the barrel, so each re-seat
is a new barrel zero. How can they hit the broad
side of a barn? I know a howitzer can hit
a trash can at five miles (well, ours can) and
they use a reciprocating barrel, so I know
it can be done, I just do not know how.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:10:31 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:10 UTC

On 04/25/2022 04:01 AM, T wrote:
> On 4/23/22 14:24, rbowman wrote:
>> An interesting metric would be how much more effective the 6.8 is
>> compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
>> bad guys in urban fighting.
>
> The new Sig has short barrel versions too for
> just such a thing. And the recoil is pretty much
> the same as the 5.56.
>
> And the 5.56 is can not penetrate cheap body armor.
> So, if you want to tickle them to death, go with the
> 5.56
>
> The 6.8 sig has more knock down power than the 7.62
> and weights less (ammo and gun). The 7.62 does penetrate.

My bad. I was thinking the 6.8 SPC that can be used with the existing
AR15 platform not the 6.8x51. I'm getting a whiff of rodent that a
hotter round than the 7.62x51 will have recoil the same as a 5.56. I
shoot 7.62x54R. Heavier bullet, 400 fps slower, but the same muzzle
energy and there's nothing gentle about that one. The gas operation will
help a little.

I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?

Re: lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip

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 by: Klaus Schadenfreude - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:14 UTC

On 4/25/2022 11:33 AM, Peeler wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:10:31 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
> troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:
>
>
>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>
> You are getting not just "a little" senile, bigmouth! Remember that this is
> just more of your OFF TOPIC senile shit, senile Yankietard?
>

Hey ASSHOLE!! Yes you "Peeler". Can't you see everyone is IGNORING you,
as they should with all TROLLS. Get lost!!

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:49 UTC

On 4/25/2022 2:14 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 11:33 AM, Peeler wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:10:31 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly
>> driveling,
>> troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:
>>
>>
>>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>> You are getting not just "a little" senile, bigmouth! Remember that
>> this is
>> just more of your OFF TOPIC senile shit, senile Yankietard?
>>
>
> Hey ASSHOLE!! Yes you "Peeler". Can't you see everyone is IGNORING you,
> as they should with all TROLLS. Get lost!!

Evidently everyone but YOU

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t47hv7$8ub$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:30:14 -0700
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 by: T - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 01:30 UTC

On 4/25/22 07:10, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/25/2022 04:01 AM, T wrote:
>> On 4/23/22 14:24, rbowman wrote:
>>> An interesting metric would be how much more effective the 6.8 is
>>> compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
>>> bad guys in urban fighting.
>>
>> The new Sig has short barrel versions too for
>> just such a thing.  And the recoil is pretty much
>> the same as the 5.56.
>>
>> And the 5.56 is can not penetrate cheap body armor.
>> So, if you want to tickle them to death, go with the
>> 5.56
>>
>> The 6.8 sig has more knock down power than the 7.62
>> and weights less (ammo and gun).  The 7.62 does penetrate.
>
> My bad. I was thinking the 6.8 SPC that can be used with the existing
> AR15 platform not the 6.8x51. I'm getting a whiff of rodent that a
> hotter round than the 7.62x51 will have recoil the same as a 5.56.  I
> shoot 7.62x54R. Heavier bullet, 400 fps slower, but the same muzzle
> energy and there's nothing gentle about that one. The gas operation will
> help a little.
>
> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
What? Stocks that rot in the jungle? Pulls to the right when fired?
Impossible to handle on full auto? Kicks like
a mule? Heavy as hell? I know what you mean.
The Sig tackles these issues with polymers, reciprocating barrels,
springs, mussel brake/suppressor, shorter barrel,
high pressure ammo, etc..
Here is a video on it:
US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
The major difference here is that the grunts are
having a ton of input this time.
Do you remember the "self cleaning" M16? With a direct
impingement gas gun? STUPID!!! Guys families frantically
sending.22 gun cleaning kits to their kids? Guys lost
their lives over that one.
You will note that the Marine Corp's new M27 *IS NOT*
direct impingement.
I think this time we may have a winner. Time will tell.
I'd like the civilian version when it comes out, but
I doubt I could afford it.
Here is a long stroke 6.5 creedmoor:
https://www.primaryweapons.com/mk218-mod-1-m-rifle-6-5-creedmoor
Doubt I can afford that either.

Re: lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip

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 by: T - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 01:55 UTC

On 4/25/22 11:14, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 11:33 AM, Peeler wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:10:31 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly
>> driveling,
>> troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:
>>
>>
>>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>> You are getting not just "a little" senile, bigmouth! Remember that
>> this is
>> just more of your OFF TOPIC senile shit, senile Yankietard?
>>
>
> Hey ASSHOLE!! Yes you "Peeler". Can't you see everyone is IGNORING you,
> as they should with all TROLLS. Get lost!!

Well, not exactly everyone. Just killfile him,
like everyone else

Re: lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
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In-Reply-To: <t47jf1$gtd$1@dont-email.me>
 by: rbowman - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:14 UTC

On 04/25/2022 07:55 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/25/22 11:14, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>> On 4/25/2022 11:33 AM, Peeler wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:10:31 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly
>>> driveling,
>>> troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>>> You are getting not just "a little" senile, bigmouth! Remember that
>>> this is
>>> just more of your OFF TOPIC senile shit, senile Yankietard?
>>>
>>
>> Hey ASSHOLE!! Yes you "Peeler". Can't you see everyone is IGNORING
>> you, as they should with all TROLLS. Get lost!!
>
> Well, not exactly everyone. Just killfile him,
> like everyone else

I forgot about the asshole until I subscribed to sci.electronics.design.
I like Thunderbird but I haven't figured out how to copy a bozo filter
to another newsgroup, or create a global filter.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<jcp4ncFhrlnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=23830&group=alt.home.repair#23830

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 20:46:06 -0600
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In-Reply-To: <t47hv7$8ub$1@dont-email.me>
 by: rbowman - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:46 UTC

On 04/25/2022 07:30 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/25/22 07:10, rbowman wrote:
>> On 04/25/2022 04:01 AM, T wrote:
>>> On 4/23/22 14:24, rbowman wrote:
>>>> An interesting metric would be how much more effective the 6.8 is
>>>> compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
>>>> bad guys in urban fighting.
>>>
>>> The new Sig has short barrel versions too for
>>> just such a thing. And the recoil is pretty much
>>> the same as the 5.56.
>>>
>>> And the 5.56 is can not penetrate cheap body armor.
>>> So, if you want to tickle them to death, go with the
>>> 5.56
>>>
>>> The 6.8 sig has more knock down power than the 7.62
>>> and weights less (ammo and gun). The 7.62 does penetrate.
>>
>> My bad. I was thinking the 6.8 SPC that can be used with the existing
>> AR15 platform not the 6.8x51. I'm getting a whiff of rodent that a
>> hotter round than the 7.62x51 will have recoil the same as a 5.56. I
>> shoot 7.62x54R. Heavier bullet, 400 fps slower, but the same muzzle
>> energy and there's nothing gentle about that one. The gas operation
>> will help a little.
>>
>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>
> What? Stocks that rot in the jungle? Pulls to the right when fired?
> Impossible to handle on full auto? Kicks like
> a mule? Heavy as hell? I know what you mean.
>
> The Sig tackles these issues with polymers, reciprocating barrels,
> springs, mussel brake/suppressor, shorter barrel,
> high pressure ammo, etc..
>
> Here is a video on it:
> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuNzcRU1r7c

Looks like there may be a little more recoil than a M4...

Select fire was a bad idea. Polymer stocks were in the offing but the
switch to the M16 canceled that. The M14 was lighter than the M1 and the
NATO round was a little calmer than a .30-06. Guess the greatest
generation was a little more robust.

Direct impingement was another bad idea. They should have taken a lesson
from the AK-47 or I should say the Garand whose best features
Kalashnikov copied -- sans the dog leg operating rod.

I never thought about it but apparently a suppressed direct impingement
brings up another problem.

Maybe it will be a winner if the military can take time off from woke
training to train riflemen rather than the suppression through volume
doctrine.

Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid

<t47p8e$l46$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=23832&group=alt.home.repair#23832

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: It is official. Sig Sauer won the 6.8 mm bid
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 20:34:38 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 03:34 UTC

On 4/25/22 19:46, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/25/2022 07:30 PM, T wrote:
>> On 4/25/22 07:10, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 04/25/2022 04:01 AM, T wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/22 14:24, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> An interesting metric would be how much more effective the 6.8 is
>>>>> compared to the 5.56 in real world conditions; i.e killing
>>>>> bad guys in urban fighting.
>>>>
>>>> The new Sig has short barrel versions too for
>>>> just such a thing.  And the recoil is pretty much
>>>> the same as the 5.56.
>>>>
>>>> And the 5.56 is can not penetrate cheap body armor.
>>>> So, if you want to tickle them to death, go with the
>>>> 5.56
>>>>
>>>> The 6.8 sig has more knock down power than the 7.62
>>>> and weights less (ammo and gun).  The 7.62 does penetrate.
>>>
>>> My bad. I was thinking the 6.8 SPC that can be used with the existing
>>> AR15 platform not the 6.8x51. I'm getting a whiff of rodent that a
>>> hotter round than the 7.62x51 will have recoil the same as a 5.56.  I
>>> shoot 7.62x54R. Heavier bullet, 400 fps slower, but the same muzzle
>>> energy and there's nothing gentle about that one. The gas operation
>>> will help a little.
>>>
>>> I'm also getting a little deja vu. Remember the M14/M60?
>>
>> What?  Stocks that rot in the jungle?  Pulls to the right when fired?
>> Impossible to handle on full auto?  Kicks like
>> a mule?  Heavy as hell?  I know what you mean.
>>
>> The Sig tackles these issues with polymers, reciprocating barrels,
>> springs, mussel brake/suppressor, shorter barrel,
>> high pressure ammo, etc..
>>
>> Here is a video on it:
>> US Army M4 replacement Military NGSW Program Explained
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0XId4kftg
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuNzcRU1r7c
>
> Looks like there may be a little more recoil than a M4...
>
> Select fire was a bad idea. Polymer stocks were in the offing but the
> switch to the M16 canceled that. The M14 was lighter than the M1 and the
> NATO round was a little calmer than a .30-06. Guess the greatest
> generation was a little more robust.
>
> Direct impingement was another bad idea. They should have taken a lesson
> from the AK-47 or I should say the Garand whose best features
> Kalashnikov copied -- sans the dog leg operating rod.
>
> I never thought about it but apparently a suppressed direct impingement
> brings up another problem.
And submerged direct impediment exploded if you don't get all the water
out before firing.
>
> Maybe it will be a winner if the military can take time off from woke
> training to train riflemen rather than the suppression through volume
> doctrine.
You hit that on the head!

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