Dear Latinists,

I've got a question about Psalm 130:5.

Speravit anima mea in Domino:
sustinuit anima mea in verbo ejus.

My soul has hoped in the Lord;
my soul has waited for his word.
Q: Is this English correct?

The Latin text doesn't seem to be accurately reflected in the myriad of English translations available. This may of course be because they're not based on Latin at all, but on older Hebrew sources.
https://biblehub.com/psalms/130-5.htm

As any rate, your clarifications are welcome. Thanks so much —

ChoirMan

Mueller Family Schola wrote:
> Dear Latinists,
>
> I've got a question about Psalm 130:5.
>
> Speravit anima mea in Domino:
> sustinuit anima mea in verbo ejus.
>
> My soul has hoped in the Lord;
> my soul has waited for his word.
> Q: Is this English correct?
>
> The Latin text doesn't seem to be accurately reflected in the myriad of English translations available. This may of course be because they're not based on Latin at all, but on older Hebrew sources.
> https://biblehub.com/psalms/130-5.htm
>
> As any rate, your clarifications are welcome. Thanks so much —
>
> ChoirMan
>
My finding tells me that this appears in Psalm 129. And I have a
different reading of an important Latin sentence.
Latin renderings of the Biblia Sacra are always somewhat suspicious; for
several reasons. Firstly, Hebrew and Aramaic; those were the mother
tongues, and the Greek & Latin are full of Hebrewisms; quite apart from
mistranslations and cultural differences.
I'll comment on the Latin here. But the scriptural exegesis is for experts.
Speravit anima mea in Domino:
(My soul has hoped in the Lord)
sustinuit anima mea in verbo ejus.
(My soul has persevered in his word)
However, I find;
sustinuit anima mea in verbUM eius
which gives a whole world of difference.
(My soul has persevered toward his word)
In one version I get the feeling that the Word is here and readily
available; in the second it sounds like persevering until it comes.
Ed

Dear Ed,

Thanks for this. I'm sure you know all about the differences in the numbering of the Psalms (Hebrew vs. Septuagint) — so this verse is from Psalm 129 in the Vulgate but Psalm 130 in most modern translations.

I checked my usual sources, and they agree on "verbo ejus," so I'll go with that here. Thanks for pointing out the textual inconsistency, and how it changes the verse's meaning.

Yours sincerely,
ChoirMan

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 3:24:26 PM UTC-7, Mueller Family Schola wrote:
> Dear Ed,
>
> Thanks for this. I'm sure you know all about the differences in the numbering of the Psalms (Hebrew vs. Septuagint) — so this verse is from Psalm 129 in the Vulgate but Psalm 130 in most modern translations.
>
> I checked my usual sources, and they agree on "verbo ejus," so I'll go with that here. Thanks for pointing out the textual inconsistency, and how it changes the verse's meaning.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> ChoirMan

Ed and Mueller Fam.

It might be useful to add the Nova Vulgata version here: ( according to modern exegesis of the Masoretic text rather than based on the Septuagint or Jerome). The text is squeaky clean Medieval Latin respelled to German philological 19th century practice. Apparently verse 6 does not contain any dittography but is some kind of chiasmus. (N. B. the order of speravit and sustinuit is reversed):

*130 (129)
1 Canticum ascensionum.
De profundis clamavi ad te, Domine;
2 Domine, exaudi vocem meam.
Fiant aures tuae intendentes
in vocem deprecationis meae.
3 Si iniquitates observaveris, Domine,
Domine, quis sustinebit?
4 Quia apud te propitiatio est,
ut timeamus te.
5 Sustinui te, Domine,
sustinuit anima mea in verbo eius;
speravit 6 anima mea in Domino
magis quam custodes auroram.
Magis quam custodes auroram
7 speret Israel in Domino,
quia apud Dominum misericordia,
et copiosa apud eum redemptio.
8 Et ipse redimet Israel
ex omnibus iniquitatibus eius.

Psalm numbering
Hebrew Greek numbering
numbering (Septuagint)
(Masoretic)

1–8 1–8
9–10 9
11–113 10–112
114–115 113
116 114–115
117–146 116–145
147 146–147
148–150 148–150

valete

Ed: I am still working on how to express the nature of my technical problems with T-Bird and Sympa and how to simplify the GLL's archive.
More later when I get my ducks in a row.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:09:22 PM UTC-7, Btraven wrote:
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 3:24:26 PM UTC-7, Mueller Family Schola wrote:
> > Dear Ed,
> >
> > Thanks for this. I'm sure you know all about the differences in the numbering of the Psalms (Hebrew vs. Septuagint) — so this verse is from Psalm 129 in the Vulgate but Psalm 130 in most modern translations.
> >
> > I checked my usual sources, and they agree on "verbo ejus," so I'll go with that here. Thanks for pointing out the textual inconsistency, and how it changes the verse's meaning.
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> > ChoirMan
> Ed and Mueller Fam.
>
> It might be useful to add the Nova Vulgata version here: ( according to modern exegesis of the Masoretic text rather than based on the Septuagint or Jerome). The text is squeaky clean Medieval Latin respelled to German philological 19th century practice. Apparently verse 6 does not contain any dittography but is some kind of chiasmus. (N. B. the order of speravit and sustinuit is reversed):
>
> *130 (129)
> 1 Canticum ascensionum.
> De profundis clamavi ad te, Domine;
> 2 Domine, exaudi vocem meam.
> Fiant aures tuae intendentes
> in vocem deprecationis meae.
> 3 Si iniquitates observaveris, Domine,
> Domine, quis sustinebit?
> 4 Quia apud te propitiatio est,
> ut timeamus te.
> 5 Sustinui te, Domine,
> sustinuit anima mea in verbo eius;
> speravit 6 anima mea in Domino
> magis quam custodes auroram.
> Magis quam custodes auroram
> 7 speret Israel in Domino,
> quia apud Dominum misericordia,
> et copiosa apud eum redemptio.
> 8 Et ipse redimet Israel
> ex omnibus iniquitatibus eius.
>
> Psalm numbering
> Hebrew Greek numbering
> numbering (Septuagint)
> (Masoretic)
>
> 1–8 1–8
> 9–10 9
> 11–113 10–112
> 114–115 113
> 116 114–115
> 117–146 116–145
> 147 146–147
> 148–150 148–150
>
> valete
>
> Ed: I am still working on how to express the nature of my technical problems with T-Bird and Sympa and how to simplify the GLL's archive.
> More later when I get my ducks in a row.

Google Groups messed up my psalm numbering table. The table is legible here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalms#Numbering