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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

SubjectAuthor
* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkDean Hoffman
+* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkEd Pawlowski
|`- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkDean Hoffman
`* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkMarilyn Manson
 +* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkEd Pawlowski
 |`* OT. No Battery Chevy Sparkhubops
 | `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkEd Pawlowski
 |  `- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkMarilyn Manson
 `* OT. No Battery Chevy Sparktrader_4
  +* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkMarilyn Manson
  |`* OT. No Battery Chevy Sparktrader_4
  | +* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | |+* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
  | ||`* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | || +- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
  | || +- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkClare Snyder
  | || +- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkCindy Hamilton
  | || `* OT. No Battery Chevy Sparktrader_4
  | ||  `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | ||   `- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
  | |+* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkMarilyn Manson
  | ||`- OT. No Battery Chevy Sparkhubops
  | |+- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkJock
  | |+- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkClare Snyder
  | |`* OT. No Battery Chevy Sparktrader_4
  | | `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | |  `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkEd Pawlowski
  | |   `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
  | |    +- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | |    `- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkScott Lurndal
  | `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkMarilyn Manson
  |  `- OT. No Battery Chevy Sparktrader_4
  `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkJock
   `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
    `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkJock
     `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
      `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkJock
       `* OT. No Battery Chevy SparkFrank
        `- OT. No Battery Chevy SparkJock

Pages:12
Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<t478dl$bhn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:47:15 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 22:47 UTC

On 4/25/2022 2:52 PM, Jock wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:30:39 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Jock wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 22:12:01 +1000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark.
>>>>> They were made from 2013 to
>>>>> 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
>>>>> I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any
>>>>> research, but
>>>>> I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
>>>>
>>>> I guess you're saying just junk the sucker, which given the high
>>>> cost of
>>>> replacements, is likely the realistic route. What do you suppose
>>>> that does
>>>> to the per mile cost that the green heads tout when they claim how
>>>> cheap
>>>> and cost effective these cars are?
>>>  Nothing useful given that the other EVs aren't seeing the same
>>> problem and that one was only produced in trivial numbers.
>>>
>>
>> It is normally not a good idea to buy a car model that has not been on
>> the road more than a year or two.  This gives the manufacturer time to
>> iron out the problems seen in large fleet testing not seen with the
>> small sample used in development.
>>
>> As most of us in this home repair group know, sometimes it is a good
>> idea to wait ten or twenty years before adapting something new for the
>> home, e.g. plumbing.
>
> Trouble is that by the time you wait that long to see if the tech is
> viable,
> you usually can't buy it anymore.

Yes, like polybutylene pipes.

I have a Trex deck that I like but it went through its growing pains and
had I bought it when it first came out would have had a problem.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<op.1k7omkgic5duzs@pvr2.lan>

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:45:46 +1000
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 by: Jock - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:45 UTC

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:47:15 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

> On 4/25/2022 2:52 PM, Jock wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:30:39 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 22:12:01 +1000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark.
>>>>>> They were made from 2013 to
>>>>>> 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
>>>>>> I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any
>>>>>> research, but
>>>>>> I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you're saying just junk the sucker, which given the high
>>>>> cost of
>>>>> replacements, is likely the realistic route. What do you suppose
>>>>> that does
>>>>> to the per mile cost that the green heads tout when they claim how
>>>>> cheap
>>>>> and cost effective these cars are?
>>>> Nothing useful given that the other EVs aren't seeing the same
>>>> problem and that one was only produced in trivial numbers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is normally not a good idea to buy a car model that has not been on
>>> the road more than a year or two. This gives the manufacturer time to
>>> iron out the problems seen in large fleet testing not seen with the
>>> small sample used in development.
>>>
>>> As most of us in this home repair group know, sometimes it is a good
>>> idea to wait ten or twenty years before adapting something new for the
>>> home, e.g. plumbing.
>> Trouble is that by the time you wait that long to see if the tech is
>> viable,
>> you usually can't buy it anymore.
>
> Yes, like polybutylene pipes.
>
> I have a Trex deck that I like but it went through its growing pains and
> had I bought it when it first came out would have had a problem.

But there is plenty of tech that never had a problem that you can't buy
anymore.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<t48p60$btj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:39:26 -0400
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 by: Frank - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:39 UTC

On 4/25/2022 10:45 PM, Jock wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:47:15 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/25/2022 2:52 PM, Jock wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:30:39 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 22:12:01 +1000, trader_4
>>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark.
>>>>>>> They were made from 2013 to
>>>>>>> 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
>>>>>>> I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any
>>>>>>> research, but
>>>>>>> I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess you're saying just junk the sucker, which given the high
>>>>>> cost of
>>>>>> replacements, is likely the realistic route. What do you suppose
>>>>>> that does
>>>>>> to the per mile cost that the green heads tout when they claim how
>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>> and cost effective these cars are?
>>>>>  Nothing useful given that the other EVs aren't seeing the same
>>>>> problem and that one was only produced in trivial numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is normally not a good idea to buy a car model that has not been
>>>> on the road more than a year or two.  This gives the manufacturer
>>>> time to iron out the problems seen in large fleet testing not seen
>>>> with the small sample used in development.
>>>>
>>>> As most of us in this home repair group know, sometimes it is a good
>>>> idea to wait ten or twenty years before adapting something new for
>>>> the home, e.g. plumbing.
>>>  Trouble is that by the time you wait that long to see if the tech is
>>> viable,
>>> you usually can't buy it anymore.
>>
>> Yes, like polybutylene pipes.
>>
>> I have a Trex deck that I like but it went through its growing pains
>> and had I bought it when it first came out would have had a problem.
>
> But there is plenty of tech that never had a problem that you can't buy
> anymore.

I guess economics could kill some things. I also know as a home owner
that some pesticides and paints that worked extremely well got killed by
the EPA.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<91249f76-85f6-4ede-8d0a-bc5b1ba737f8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:12 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> writes:
> >On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:50:13 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:12:04 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >> > > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark. They were made from 2013 to 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
> >> > > I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any research, but
> >> > > I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
> >> > I guess you're saying just junk the sucker,
> >> I guess you're reading *way* more into my question than was there.
> >>
> >> Get out of attack mode and read my other comments. Your speculation
> >> is so far off base it's laughable.
> >
> >My so sensitive, the guy who dishes it out, thinks some simple comments
> >are an attack. For an attack, go look at some of your posts here. What I posted
> >is factual, on target,which is that if you're battery dies at 110K
> >miles, it looks like your electric car is headed to the junk yard
> Given that there were less than 8000 Sparks made, I can understand
> Cheverolets reluctance to continue to support battery pack replacement.
>
> It's an opportunity for a third party to build a replacement battery pack
> if there really is a market for it.
>
> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
> >very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely. Even Tesla
> >only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only 70%
> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle for more
> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government mandated support
> requirements)?

The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a ten year old car,
you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to $3500. What does a
replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:13 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:56 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:59:40 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:50:13 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:12:04 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark. They were made from 2013 to 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
> > > > > I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any research, but
> > > > > I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
> > > > I guess you're saying just junk the sucker,
> > > I guess you're reading *way* more into my question than was there.
> > >
> > > Get out of attack mode and read my other comments. Your speculation
> > > is so far off base it's laughable.
> > My so sensitive, the guy who dishes it out, thinks some simple comments
> > are an attack. For an attack, go look at some of your posts here. What I posted
> > is factual, on target,which is that if you're battery dies at 110K
> > miles, it looks like your electric car is headed to the junk yard or for a
> > very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely. Even Tesla
> > only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only 70%
> > capacity at that point. And all that should be factored in to the "miracle"
> > $1.25 gas equivalent fuel cost.
> My so sensitive. Show me where I doubted or disputed the information that
> you posted.
>
> While your points are valid where I take issue is your opening line:
> "I guess you're saying just junk the sucker, "
> I never said or implied any such thing. I asked a simple question and
> you made an assumption as to what I saying. The article was weak
> on the size of the issue so I said I was "curious" as to how big of issue
> this really is. e.g. How many cars were sold, what is the lifetime of the
> battery, what percentage have been replaced under warranty, etc.
> You know, the part that you snipped from my original response.

Like you said, my, you're so sensitive.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:16 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
> >On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> writes:
>
> >>
> >> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
> >>
> >>> very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely. Even Tesla
> >>> only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only 70%
> >>
> >> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle for more
> >> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government mandated support
> >> requirements)?
> >
> >Google sez:
> >
> >"The average age of a car on U.S. roads rose to 12.1 years in 2021,
> >according to IHS Markit. The average age had been 11.9 years in 2020. In
> >2002, the average age was 9.6 years. There was a time when drivers
> >didn't expect to get more than 100,000 miles out of their cars at the most."
> Apples are not the same as Oranges. How many original owners kept their
> car for 12.1 years in 2021 (only 12 percent, as per google).
>
> "According to the car shopping website iSeeCars.com 12.9%
> of all new-car buyers hold onto their purchases for a decade or longer,..."

So, are you implying that statistic somehow means that used cars are worthless
at ten years, not sold or traded in for significant value? The used car market
is as hot as the real estate market right now.

> >Appears that in the future the electric cars will drive the average down.
> It would be ridiculous to extrapolate from the poorly selling Spark to
> all electric vehicles, based on the data you've gathered from this thread
> on a extremely-low-readership usenet newsgroup.

Yet you appear to be extrapolating from your statistic.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<OPS9K.131977$Kdf.93791@fx96.iad>

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
References: <77f47f68-08d6-425f-b838-b39cb82d79d7n@googlegroups.com> <e9fb94df-7b8f-428b-b056-00a76565a129n@googlegroups.com> <a626179a-d07b-4682-ad44-66797973df31n@googlegroups.com> <eab5f180-6076-426a-bab5-7e3be0049ddan@googlegroups.com> <efda9fa3-b196-4af4-8458-a7de2b90063an@googlegroups.com> <WCz9K.23853$x9Ea.5133@fx45.iad> <91249f76-85f6-4ede-8d0a-bc5b1ba737f8n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:53 UTC

trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
>> >very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely. Even Tesla
>> >only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only 70%
>> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle for more
>> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government mandated support
>> requirements)?
>
>The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a ten year old car,
>you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to $3500. What does a
>replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?

Today, around $14k. 10 years from now? Probably significantly less.

"While at the higher end, the Model S has a 375 mile range
according to the EPA, bringing the battery's lifetime mileage
up to 560,000 miles. In 2019, Elon Musk commented on the Model
3's battery longevity, saying that the Model 3 has a battery
that should last 300,000 to 500,000 miles."

The average mileage by US drivers is less than 15,000 miles per annum,
which means the battery pack is usable for 20 to 33 years before replacement.

And yes, there will be outliers on both ends.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<SRS9K.131978$Kdf.14401@fx96.iad>

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:56 UTC

trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> >On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >> trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> writes:
>>
>> >>
>> >> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
>> >>

>> >Google sez:
>> >
>> >"The average age of a car on U.S. roads rose to 12.1 years in 2021,
>> >according to IHS Markit. The average age had been 11.9 years in 2020. In
>> >2002, the average age was 9.6 years. There was a time when drivers
>> >didn't expect to get more than 100,000 miles out of their cars at the most."
>> Apples are not the same as Oranges. How many original owners kept their
>> car for 12.1 years in 2021 (only 12 percent, as per google).
>>
>> "According to the car shopping website iSeeCars.com 12.9%
>> of all new-car buyers hold onto their purchases for a decade or longer,..."
>
>So, are you implying that statistic somehow means that used cars are worthless
>at ten years, not sold or traded in for significant value? The used car market
>is as hot as the real estate market right now.

No, I simply noted that very few original owners (about 1 out of 8) keep
a vehicle for a decade or more. Frank changed the terms of the question
to include used vehicles, something I made no comment on whatsoever.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<y8T9K.131981$Kdf.101076@fx96.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:15 UTC

On 4/26/2022 9:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
>>>> very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely. Even Tesla
>>>> only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only 70%
>>> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle for more
>>> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government mandated support
>>> requirements)?
>>
>> The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a ten year old car,
>> you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to $3500. What does a
>> replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?
>
> Today, around $14k. 10 years from now? Probably significantly less.
>
> "While at the higher end, the Model S has a 375 mile range
> according to the EPA, bringing the battery's lifetime mileage
> up to 560,000 miles. In 2019, Elon Musk commented on the Model
> 3's battery longevity, saying that the Model 3 has a battery
> that should last 300,000 to 500,000 miles."
>
> The average mileage by US drivers is less than 15,000 miles per annum,
> which means the battery pack is usable for 20 to 33 years before replacement.
>
> And yes, there will be outliers on both ends.

One problem today, batteries are configured to the car, not universal.
That may change in a few years and be more modular. Battery swaps may
become common.

The new five to ten years will see a lot of change.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<t4907i$5ia$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:39:45 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:39 UTC

On 4/26/2022 9:56 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>>> On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> writes:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade, which is a shame.
>>>>>
>
>>>> Google sez:
>>>>
>>>> "The average age of a car on U.S. roads rose to 12.1 years in 2021,
>>>> according to IHS Markit. The average age had been 11.9 years in 2020. In
>>>> 2002, the average age was 9.6 years. There was a time when drivers
>>>> didn't expect to get more than 100,000 miles out of their cars at the most."
>>> Apples are not the same as Oranges. How many original owners kept their
>>> car for 12.1 years in 2021 (only 12 percent, as per google).
>>>
>>> "According to the car shopping website iSeeCars.com 12.9%
>>> of all new-car buyers hold onto their purchases for a decade or longer,..."
>>
>> So, are you implying that statistic somehow means that used cars are worthless
>> at ten years, not sold or traded in for significant value? The used car market
>> is as hot as the real estate market right now.
>
> No, I simply noted that very few original owners (about 1 out of 8) keep
> a vehicle for a decade or more. Frank changed the terms of the question
> to include used vehicles, something I made no comment on whatsoever.

All I posted was the average age of cars on the road. How is that
changing anything?

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<t490ab$5ia$2@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:41:13 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:41 UTC

On 4/26/2022 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/26/2022 9:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade,
>>>> which is a shame.
>>>>> very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely.
>>>>> Even Tesla
>>>>> only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only
>>>>> 70%
>>>> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle
>>>> for more
>>>> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government
>>>> mandated support
>>>> requirements)?
>>>
>>> The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a
>>> ten year old car,
>>> you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to
>>> $3500.  What does a
>>> replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?
>>
>> Today, around $14k.   10 years from now?  Probably significantly less.
>>
>>     "While at the higher end, the Model S has a 375 mile range
>>      according to the EPA, bringing the battery's lifetime mileage
>>      up to 560,000 miles. In 2019, Elon Musk commented on the Model
>>      3's battery longevity, saying that the Model 3 has a battery
>>      that should last 300,000 to 500,000 miles."
>>
>> The average mileage by US drivers is less than 15,000 miles per annum,
>> which means the battery pack is usable for 20 to 33 years before
>> replacement.
>>
>> And yes, there will be outliers on both ends.
>
> One problem today, batteries are configured to the car, not universal.
> That may change in a few years and be more modular.  Battery swaps may
> become common.
>
> The new five to ten years will see a lot of change.

Batteries can run down even when not used.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

<g_T9K.480222$SeK9.427337@fx97.iad>

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Reply-To: slp53@pacbell.net
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:13 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 4/26/2022 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/26/2022 9:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>>>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade,
>>>>> which is a shame.
>>>>>> very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely.
>>>>>> Even Tesla
>>>>>> only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only
>>>>>> 70%
>>>>> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle
>>>>> for more
>>>>> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government
>>>>> mandated support
>>>>> requirements)?
>>>>
>>>> The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a
>>>> ten year old car,
>>>> you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to
>>>> $3500.  What does a
>>>> replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?
>>>
>>> Today, around $14k.   10 years from now?  Probably significantly less.
>>>
>>>     "While at the higher end, the Model S has a 375 mile range
>>>      according to the EPA, bringing the battery's lifetime mileage
>>>      up to 560,000 miles. In 2019, Elon Musk commented on the Model
>>>      3's battery longevity, saying that the Model 3 has a battery
>>>      that should last 300,000 to 500,000 miles."
>>>
>>> The average mileage by US drivers is less than 15,000 miles per annum,
>>> which means the battery pack is usable for 20 to 33 years before
>>> replacement.
>>>
>>> And yes, there will be outliers on both ends.
>>
>> One problem today, batteries are configured to the car, not universal.
>> That may change in a few years and be more modular.  Battery swaps may
>> become common.
>>
>> The new five to ten years will see a lot of change.
>
>Batteries can run down even when not used.

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

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Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:14 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 4/26/2022 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/26/2022 9:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>>>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It is true that it is rare for anyone to keep a car for a decade,
>>>>> which is a shame.
>>>>>> very costly repair, which makes the junk it option more likely.
>>>>>> Even Tesla
>>>>>> only warrants their batteries to 100K miles or eight years and only
>>>>>> 70%
>>>>> And what other car manufacturer warrants _any part_ of their vehicle
>>>>> for more
>>>>> than three years (excepting emissions controls, which has government
>>>>> mandated support
>>>>> requirements)?
>>>>
>>>> The issue is if a major component like a tranny or engine goes in a
>>>> ten year old car,
>>>> you can typically get it replaced with a rebuilt one for $2500 to
>>>> $3500.  What does a
>>>> replacement battery cost for an electric vehicle?
>>>
>>> Today, around $14k.   10 years from now?  Probably significantly less.
>>>
>>>     "While at the higher end, the Model S has a 375 mile range
>>>      according to the EPA, bringing the battery's lifetime mileage
>>>      up to 560,000 miles. In 2019, Elon Musk commented on the Model
>>>      3's battery longevity, saying that the Model 3 has a battery
>>>      that should last 300,000 to 500,000 miles."
>>>
>>> The average mileage by US drivers is less than 15,000 miles per annum,
>>> which means the battery pack is usable for 20 to 33 years before
>>> replacement.
>>>
>>> And yes, there will be outliers on both ends.
>>
>> One problem today, batteries are configured to the car, not universal.
>> That may change in a few years and be more modular.  Battery swaps may
>> become common.
>>
>> The new five to ten years will see a lot of change.
>
>Batteries can run down even when not used.

So what does that have to do with anything?

"Li-ion rechargeable batteries have a self-discharge
rate typically stated by manufacturers to be 1.5 - 2% per month.

The rate increases with temperature and state of charge"

Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT. No Battery Chevy Spark
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 02:54:09 +1000
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 by: Jock - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:54 UTC

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 22:39:26 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

> On 4/25/2022 10:45 PM, Jock wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:47:15 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/25/2022 2:52 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 02:30:39 +1000, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/25/2022 12:03 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 22:12:01 +1000, trader_4
>>>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:42:47 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > GM won't is out of replacement batteries for the Chevy Spark.
>>>>>>>> They were made from 2013 to
>>>>>>>> 2016.<https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/24/23039665/gm-chevy-spark-ev-no-longer-provide-battery-replacements>
>>>>>>>> I don't have any skin in the game, so I'm not going to do any
>>>>>>>> research, but
>>>>>>>> I'm just a little curious: How much of an issue is this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess you're saying just junk the sucker, which given the high
>>>>>>> cost of
>>>>>>> replacements, is likely the realistic route. What do you suppose
>>>>>>> that does
>>>>>>> to the per mile cost that the green heads tout when they claim how
>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>> and cost effective these cars are?
>>>>>> Nothing useful given that the other EVs aren't seeing the same
>>>>>> problem and that one was only produced in trivial numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is normally not a good idea to buy a car model that has not been
>>>>> on the road more than a year or two. This gives the manufacturer
>>>>> time to iron out the problems seen in large fleet testing not seen
>>>>> with the small sample used in development.
>>>>>
>>>>> As most of us in this home repair group know, sometimes it is a good
>>>>> idea to wait ten or twenty years before adapting something new for
>>>>> the home, e.g. plumbing.
>>>> Trouble is that by the time you wait that long to see if the tech is
>>>> viable,
>>>> you usually can't buy it anymore.
>>>
>>> Yes, like polybutylene pipes.
>>>
>>> I have a Trex deck that I like but it went through its growing pains
>>> and had I bought it when it first came out would have had a problem.
>> But there is plenty of tech that never had a problem that you can't
>> buy anymore.

> I guess economics could kill some things.

That, and much better tech turning up are the main
reasons, most obviously with cellphones and cars.

> I also know as a home owner that some pesticides and paints that worked
> extremely well got killed by the EPA.

Yep and stuff like creosote and even some types of paint and what is used
for roofs.

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