By tradition I had a leftover slice for lunch yesterday and wore my Cardhart overalls to trim the bushes.
Today I wore my Oscar de la Renta sweater to the doc's who told me Finito with Xarelto. Renta made in Jhina.

On 12/13/2022 5:55 PM, GM wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 4:42:19 PM UTC-6, Bering Sea Bar & Brig@MarthaStewart.GoodThing wrote:
>> By tradition I had a leftover slice for lunch yesterday and wore my Cardhart overalls to trim the bushes.
>> Today I wore my Oscar de la Renta sweater to the doc's who told me Finito with Xarelto. Renta made in Jhina.
>
>
> "When someone fucks with my Frankie, they fuck with ME..."
>
> - Dolly Sinatra, Frank Sinatra's mother
>
> "Dolly also ran an illegal abortion service that earned her the nickname "Hatpin Dolly". Her reputation as an abortion care provider led one area church to ban her son from singing there...
>
> ...On January 6, 1977, Dolly Sinatra had invited friend Mrs. Anthony Carboni to join her in a private flight, provided by son Frank Sinatra, to come to Vegas for a show and gambling, but shortly after take-off from Palm Springs Municipal Airport, the Gates Learjet 24 crashed into a 10,000-foot (3,048-meter) snowy mountaintop ridge, in the eastern portion of the San Gorgonio Wilderness, killing all aboard. Dolly Sinatra was 80 years old.."
>

He was an OK singer but I was never much of a fan. IRL, he was pretty
much a jerk.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 18:39:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 12/13/2022 5:55 PM, GM wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 4:42:19 PM UTC-6, Bering Sea Bar & Brig@MarthaStewart.GoodThing wrote:
>>> By tradition I had a leftover slice for lunch yesterday and wore my Cardhart overalls to trim the bushes.
>>> Today I wore my Oscar de la Renta sweater to the doc's who told me Finito with Xarelto. Renta made in Jhina.
>>
>>
>> "When someone fucks with my Frankie, they fuck with ME..."
>>
>> - Dolly Sinatra, Frank Sinatra's mother
>>
>> "Dolly also ran an illegal abortion service that earned her the nickname "Hatpin Dolly". Her reputation as an abortion care provider led one area church to ban her son from singing there...
>>
>> ...On January 6, 1977, Dolly Sinatra had invited friend Mrs. Anthony Carboni to join her in a private flight, provided by son Frank Sinatra, to come to Vegas for a show and gambling, but shortly after take-off from Palm Springs Municipal Airport, the Gates Learjet 24 crashed into a 10,000-foot (3,048-meter) snowy mountaintop ridge, in the eastern portion of the San Gorgonio Wilderness, killing all aboard. Dolly Sinatra was 80 years old.."
>>
>
>He was an OK singer but I was never much of a fan. IRL, he was pretty
>much a jerk.

He raped Natalie Wood (in the sense that she was 15) and many years
later he protected her murderer.

--
Bruce
<https://emalm.com/?v=SQqZJ>

GM wrote:

> ...On January 6, 1977, Dolly Sinatra had invited friend Mrs. Anthony Carboni to join her in a private flight, provided by son Frank Sinatra, to come to Vegas for a show and gambling, but shortly after take-off from Palm Springs Municipal Airport, the Gates Learjet 24 crashed into a 10,000-foot (3,048-meter) snowy mountaintop ridge, in the eastern portion of the San Gorgonio Wilderness, killing all aboard. Dolly Sinatra was 80 years old.."

Sad. If she were alive today she would be 125. She would be the oldest person alive.
Reporters the world over would be on hand to celebrate her birthday, asking the same
questions normally directed at longevity champions - "What did you do to stay alive this
long?" She says, "I can't say for sure - lots of different things I suppose. But mostly I just
felt good every day knowing that nobody was messing with my Frankie, may God rest his
soul." But she is not alive today and we are all the less for it.

I grieve for the family

Bruce wrote:

> He raped Natalie Wood (in the sense that she was 15) and many years
> later he protected her murderer.

Lots of facts floating around in this newsgroup and the world in general. Debating
facts, it's funny - like when there's a trial and the defense and prosecution bring in
their own experts to testify differently to the same questions. Number one, how do
you know he raped Natalie Wood? And number two, so what if he did? So she was
15, so what? I am not a huge fan of the pre 20 set - I like them young but not with
all the baby fat and the filthy feet poking out of equally filthy bellbottom pants
dragging the ground. There were tons of runaway girls in Hollywood. I was only
21, the difference in age was not so dramatic. How old was Frankie when he raped
Natalie? That counts for something. Rape scholars pretty much agree that 18 and
under is statutory rape. But advanced scholars on the subject say the victim's age
means nothing without taking into account the age of the rapist. Official DNA studies
show that the average man is a child till the age of 50 and over. So what I'm asking is,
was Frankie over 50 when he popped Nat'? If he was over 50 he is guilty for sure.
Under 50, he walks. Those are the facts. Scientifically proved.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 16:26:38 -0800 (PST), Thomas Joseph
<jazeev1234@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>
>> He raped Natalie Wood (in the sense that she was 15) and many years
>> later he protected her murderer.
>
>
>Lots of facts floating around in this newsgroup and the world in general. Debating
>facts, it's funny - like when there's a trial and the defense and prosecution bring in
>their own experts to testify differently to the same questions. Number one, how do
>you know he raped Natalie Wood?

I read her biography. And it wasn't a secret.

>And number two, so what if he did? So she was 15, so what?

If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer.

--
Bruce
<https://emalm.com/?v=SQqZJ>

On 12/13/2022 7:26 PM, Thomas Joseph wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>
>> He raped Natalie Wood (in the sense that she was 15) and many years
>> later he protected her murderer.
>
>
> Lots of facts floating around in this newsgroup and the world in general. Debating
> facts, it's funny - like when there's a trial and the defense and prosecution bring in
> their own experts to testify differently to the same questions. Number one, how do
> you know he raped Natalie Wood? And number two, so what if he did? So she was
> 15, so what? I am not a huge fan of the pre 20 set - I like them young but not with
> all the baby fat and the filthy feet poking out of equally filthy bellbottom pants
> dragging the ground. There were tons of runaway girls in Hollywood. I was only
> 21, the difference in age was not so dramatic. How old was Frankie when he raped
> Natalie? That counts for something. Rape scholars pretty much agree that 18 and
> under is statutory rape. But advanced scholars on the subject say the victim's age
> means nothing without taking into account the age of the rapist. Official DNA studies
> show that the average man is a child till the age of 50 and over. So what I'm asking is,
> was Frankie over 50 when he popped Nat'? If he was over 50 he is guilty for sure.
> Under 50, he walks. Those are the facts. Scientifically proved.
>

https://tinyurl.com/2t8tnhx3

“Mr. S truly cherished her, and whatever went on in private, he was also
a father to her more than her own father, very protective.” The
38-year-old Sinatra's “seduction” of 15-year-old Natalie, tragically,
would have been both child molestation and statutory rape

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 19:50:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 12/13/2022 7:26 PM, Thomas Joseph wrote:
>>
>> Lots of facts floating around in this newsgroup and the world in general. Debating
>> facts, it's funny - like when there's a trial and the defense and prosecution bring in
>> their own experts to testify differently to the same questions. Number one, how do
>> you know he raped Natalie Wood? And number two, so what if he did? So she was
>> 15, so what? I am not a huge fan of the pre 20 set - I like them young but not with
>> all the baby fat and the filthy feet poking out of equally filthy bellbottom pants
>> dragging the ground. There were tons of runaway girls in Hollywood. I was only
>> 21, the difference in age was not so dramatic. How old was Frankie when he raped
>> Natalie? That counts for something. Rape scholars pretty much agree that 18 and
>> under is statutory rape. But advanced scholars on the subject say the victim's age
>> means nothing without taking into account the age of the rapist. Official DNA studies
>> show that the average man is a child till the age of 50 and over. So what I'm asking is,
>> was Frankie over 50 when he popped Nat'? If he was over 50 he is guilty for sure.
>> Under 50, he walks. Those are the facts. Scientifically proved.
>>
>
>https://tinyurl.com/2t8tnhx3
>
>“Mr. S truly cherished her, and whatever went on in private, he was also
>a father to her more than her own father, very protective.” The
>38-year-old Sinatra's “seduction” of 15-year-old Natalie, tragically,
>would have been both child molestation and statutory rape

And then there's Kirk Douglas. He didn't only rape her but also beat
her up.

--
Bruce
<https://emalm.com/?v=SQqZJ>

Bruce wrote:
Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

> >“Mr. S truly cherished her, and whatever went on in private, he was also
> >a father to her more than her own father, very protective.” The
> >38-year-old Sinatra's “seduction” of 15-year-old Natalie, tragically,
> >would have been both child molestation and statutory rape.

> And then there's Kirk Douglas. He didn't only rape her but also beat
> her up.

I used to live in Hollywood. I am a Hollywood insider. I got all the scoops.
But every now and then something gets by me. I was not aware that Kirk
too, as well as Frank, molested the young and vulnerable Mz. Wood.

But as the saying goes, "Once, no shame no shame, twice, I know I'm to
blame", or something like that. So Natalie got nailed twice. Once and maybe
I'd consider her the victim. But twice? Two different guys? Not to mention
others she did not report? Sounds like she was the magnet in these cases.
Once again it's time for the victims and their stupid supporters to take some
responsibility for their actions. It could have been Natalie's fault. Not saying
it was, only that it could have been. And then on top of it she gets murdered?
What did she do to deserve such treatment? Notice I am only answering
questions, not claiming to know exactly what went on in all situations. And
besides that I don't like debates.

TMD - (too much debating)

Bruce wrote:

> I read her biography. And it wasn't a secret.

Was she grateful for being alive when she wrote that biography? She
should have been. Instead she dishes dirt on others actors.

Now as far as Kirk goes, he was a method actor. He really got deep
into his characters. So deep that colleagues of the chisel faced superstar
were concerned he might never come out of it.

Such was the case with the movie Spartacus where Kirk was crucified
at the end. He couldn't get it out of his mind. It was a form of PTSD. Kirk
had the disorder long before it even had a name. A true trailblazer. Anyway,
word on all the sets - and remember, I was there man - word all over Tinsel
Town at that time was that Kirk was still in Spartacus mode when he whipped
on Natalie. So please at least take that into account before jumping all over
the guy. He was a tormented actor. A genius of the method. For Natalie things
ended quickly. But for Kirk, much of his life as a genius actor was a living hell.
He had to lash out - at somebody - something - anything - to get the horrible PTSD
imagery out of his mind. If only Natalie had been more compassionate. Oh well.

Please don't forget that I was there - in Hollywood, when a lot of this shit went
down. I got into the scene as an actor but was blackballed by all SAG directors
for, in their words, "Going overboard" with the method. Yes, I was a method actor.
And I remain a fan to this day even after they blackballed me. But I was still
allowed on the sets, so I was privy to a lot of shit that went down in those days.

I knew both Frank and Bobby Wagner. They were not openly gay but reports
surfaced from time to time of them getting a bit too close physically in the
few films they made together. The most prevalent theory running through
Tinsel Town is that Frank and Bobbie wanted each other but Natalie got in
the way because she was seeing Bobby W at that time. "Get rid of her", Frank
told Bobby one night in the heat of a warm on-set embrace. "Get rid of her
and we can be together at last."

Now please understand - everyone in Hollywood knows this - when Frank
told Bobby to get rid of Natalie he did not mean "Kill her." He simply meant
for Bobby to tell her to get lost. But Bobby, who adored Frank, took his
suggestion literally, to get rid of her for good. When Frank found out about
Natalie dying by Bob's hand he went ballistic and had Bobby beat up only to
then intervene when he could stand the sight of his true love's blood spurting
all over the place. He had the beating halted immediately. But after that Bobby
and Frank did not speak for a long time even though they continued to lust
after each other in the stifling privacy of their super public lives. I feel for them.
All of them. Frank, Bobby, and Natalie, as well as their fans who surely grieved
when all this shit went down so many long years ago.

I was there man!

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:26:30 -0800 (PST), Thomas Joseph
<jazeev1234@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>
>> I read her biography. And it wasn't a secret.
>
>
>Was she grateful for being alive when she wrote that biography? She
>should have been.

It wasn't an autobiography. And it's a recent one, so she was already
dead.

>Instead she dishes dirt on others actors.

Saying that someone raped you or beat you up isn't dishing dirt on
someone. You just can't handle hearing anything bad about your heroes.

--
Bruce
<https://emalm.com/?v=SQqZJ>

Bruce wrote:
Thomas Joseph

> Was she grateful for being alive when she wrote that biography? She
> should have been.

> It wasn't an autobiography. And it's a recent one, so she was already
> dead.
> Saying that someone raped you or beat you up isn't dishing dirt on
> someone. You just can't handle hearing anything bad about your heroes.

As I have said over and over again, I do not like debating. Number two,
I have no heroes. I think all celebs are a barrel of laugh, mostly incompetent,
more so now than ever.

I assumed the bio was written after her death. At first I wondered what
kind of an egotist she must have been to write an autobiography at such
a young age. I assumed the bio was written after her death (may God rest
her soul). That makes it even more slanderous and less reliable in terms
of its truth. Also, as I said the other day, who cares? It's over. It's over man,
come on, buck up, let's move forward. (pats on the shoulder).........."Let's
forget the past brother man, let's move on." The whole thing is funny and
also stupid. I have no heroes. I enjoy putting super stars down, although
really good ones are hard to find. You enjoy putting people down in a less
direct way, presenting yourself as a caring compassionate supporter of
Mz. Wood only to give yourself a chance to denigrate Mr. Sinatra in a public
setting. You used Mz. Wood. You used Natalie. Just to get at Frankie. Oh
man, that is some evil shit.