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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

SubjectAuthor
* OT: this is what causes inflationT
+* OT: this is what causes inflationDean Hoffman
|`* OT: this is what causes inflationT
| `* OT: this is what causes inflationRoger Blake
|  `* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|   `* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
|    +* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    |+* OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
|    ||`* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    || +* OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
|    || |`* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    || | `* OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|    || |  `* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
|    || |   +* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    || |   |`- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|    || |   +- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
|    || |   `- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|    || `- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|    |+* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
|    ||`* OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    || `* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
|    ||  +- OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    ||  `- OT: this is what causes inflationT
|    |`- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|    +- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
|    `- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
+* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
|+* OT: this is what causes inflationT
||+* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
|||`* OT: this is what causes inflationT
||| `* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
|||  `- OT: this is what causes inflationT
||`* OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
|| `* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||  `* OT: this is what causes inflationPthirus Pubis
||   `* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
||    +* OT: this is what causes inflationDean Hoffman
||    |+- OT: this is what causes inflationT
||    |`* OT: this is what causes inflationJim Joyce
||    | `- OT: this is what causes inflationScott Lurndal
||    +* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||    |+- OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
||    |+- OT: this is what causes inflationT
||    |`- OT: this is what causes inflationT
||    `* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||     `* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
||      +* OT: this is what causes inflationDean Hoffman
||      |`* OT: this is what causes inflationCindy Hamilton
||      | +- OT: this is what causes inflationPthirus Pubis
||      | `- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
||      +* OT: this is what causes inflationT
||      |`* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||      | `* OT: this is what causes inflationT
||      |  +* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||      |  |+- OT: this is what causes inflationT
||      |  |+- OT: this is what causes inflationBob F
||      |  |`* OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
||      |  | `* OT: this is what causes inflationT
||      |  |  +* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
||      |  |  |`- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
||      |  |  +- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
||      |  |  `- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
||      |  `- OT: this is what causes inflationtrader_4
||      +- OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
||      `- OT: this is what causes inflationScott Lurndal
|`- OT: this is what causes inflationrbowman
+- OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
+* OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
|`* OT: this is what causes inflationEd Pawlowski
| `- OT: this is what causes inflationFrank
`* OT: this is what causes inflationKaren
 `- OT: this is what causes inflationT

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Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<ph%aK.451157$iK66.433414@fx46.iad>

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:20 UTC

On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:

> Here is an idea.  how about a Flat Tax.  Or even
> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>
> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
> year on their W2.  "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"

Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
We all need certain necessities to live. Sure, we can pass on the candy
bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.

>
> People that do not pay taxes should not be stating what
> those that do should be paying.  But ...

Yes, good to have unequal say in the government. What is the minimum
wage to earn in order to have voting rights?
>
> Flat Tax is probably the most workable idea.  Politicians
> will kick and scream on that one too. Can't buy favor,
> etc..

Graduated flat tax, yes, get rid of all the deductions and loopholes.
Graduate the percentage on the first 100k or so.

All we have to do is get the tax accountant and tax lawyers to lobby
congress for it.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<Mk%aK.451159$iK66.45320@fx46.iad>

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24 UTC

On 4/29/2022 7:21 PM, T wrote:

>> Coming out of the pandemic we did not need a huge influx of money into
>> the economy.  The democrat cure to all problems is to spend more money.
>
> The stimulus checks during the pandemic were funny
> money, which outpaces economic growth.  Had we
> still had Trump in office, we would have had a
> YUGE economic recovery and that extra funny money
> would have been absorbed by economic growth.
> One of the consequences of a stolen election.

Who started the checks?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/27/trump-signs-covid-relief-bill-600-stimulus-checks-go-out-this-week-.html

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<Qn%aK.451161$iK66.246282@fx46.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:27 UTC

On 4/29/2022 7:36 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/29/22 15:58, Frank wrote:
>> On 4/29/2022 3:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2022 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Add to this the mandate of demanding something like 49 mpg in a few
>>>> years and pushing electric car production.  Lot of places here and
>>>> abroad will not allow ICE cars in the future.  So why should oil
>>>> companies increase production.
>>>
>>> You bring up some interesting points.
>>>
>>> What do you think the future will be like.  I'm talking 20, 30, 40
>>> years from now.  The easy to get oil will be gone, the hard to get
>>> oil will cost more to produce and eventually, there will be none.
>>>
>>> What would your plan be?  Should we be looking at better ways to
>>> capture solar?  There is more solar energy on the earth every day
>>> that we can possibly use.  Should we be fixing the grid?  Should we
>>> convert the auto fleet to EV so the fuel left can be used in aircraft?
>>>
>>> Should we have a plan or just grab as much cheap gas now as we can
>>> get? Is this just a fiscal situation or do we have a moral obligation
>>> to consider the future?
>>
>> We will never run out of oil but it will continue to be more
>> expensive.   You could make it from coal with processes know for over
>> a 100 years.
>> Carbon dioxide can be sequestered and probably disposed of underground.
>>
>> Nuclear is also a good way to go.
>>
>> Of course conservation is important as is continuous improvement.
>> Solar cells keep getting more efficient.
>>
>> My new Chevelle decades ago got 16 mpg on all highway driving but my
>> new Crosstrek today registers 33.5 mpg in all round driving.
>>
>> There are inventions to be made, for example, room temperature
>> superconductivity would save a bundle of energy.
>
>
> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
> strangely find more.
>

Everything in the earth is finite. Prove otherwise.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<t4i26e$g0k$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:08:29 -0700
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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:08 UTC

On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>
>> Here is an idea.  how about a Flat Tax.  Or even
>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>
>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>> year on their W2.  "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>
> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier. We
> all need certain necessities to live.  Sure, we can pass on the candy
> bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
Question. How will paying the same percentage tax the
poor at a higher rate than the rich? Are you presuming
that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
to those who are wealthier?
Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax. And
it works. The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.
That is the nice thing about Federalism. The various
states can test things before it is forced down
everyone's throats.
>
>
>>
>> People that do not pay taxes should not be stating what
>> those that do should be paying.  But ...
>
> Yes, good to have unequal say in the government.  What is the minimum
> wage to earn in order to have voting rights?
Did you miss the "But.." part. Even though I don't
like it, I still support it.
>>
>> Flat Tax is probably the most workable idea.  Politicians
>> will kick and scream on that one too. Can't buy favor,
>> etc..
>
> Graduated flat tax, yes, get rid of all the deductions and loopholes.
> Graduate the percentage on the first 100k or so.
Get rid of all the manipulations. No graduated anything.
You start manipulating and palms get waxed and some how
those capable of waxing palms get out of paying anything.
Bozos for example.

>
> All we have to do is get the tax accountant and tax lawyers to lobby
> congress for it.
No fooling.
You notice that Accountants hardly know anything about
the tax code anymore? They just pay for software
to figure it out for them.
My wife, who does our business taxes by hand, bought
Turbo Tax to see how they did things. She is
furious with it as it makes so many mistakes.
Oh and no section 179 either and lets deduct
my full depreciated car too. Oh and lets round
off by 1000 too. I do not see how anyone using
turbo tax for business does not get their asses
audited every year.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<t4i2rt$ji4$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:19 UTC

On 4/29/22 17:24, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 7:21 PM, T wrote:
>
>>> Coming out of the pandemic we did not need a huge influx of money
>>> into the economy.  The democrat cure to all problems is to spend more
>>> money.
>>
>> The stimulus checks during the pandemic were funny
>> money, which outpaces economic growth.  Had we
>> still had Trump in office, we would have had a
>> YUGE economic recovery and that extra funny money
>> would have been absorbed by economic growth.
>> One of the consequences of a stolen election.
>
> Who started the checks?
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/27/trump-signs-covid-relief-bill-600-stimulus-checks-go-out-this-week-.html
>
>
What a silly response. It was clear from my
original statement that it started with Trump's
covid relief spending. What you purposefully
missing is that his fraudlancy's administration
and the democratically controlled congress printed
money like crazy. On to of that is anti
business policies, causing the economy not to
grow and absorb the Trump's printing and Non
compos mentis crazy spending.
Inflation is a way to tax the shit out of the poor
and act like you have clean hands.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<jd3hc8Fhu6pU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: rbowman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:23 UTC

On 04/29/2022 06:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Yes, good to have unequal say in the government. What is the minimum
> wage to earn in order to have voting rights?

You do know how the country started off, don't you?

https://www.fairvote.org/evolution-of-voting-rights-from-1789-to-today-must-continue

Governance hasn't been improved by letting every Tom, Dick, and Jamaal
vote.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<t4i34m$l55$1@dont-email.me>

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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:24 UTC

On 4/29/22 17:27, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 7:36 PM, T wrote:
>> On 4/29/22 15:58, Frank wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2022 3:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 4/29/2022 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Add to this the mandate of demanding something like 49 mpg in a few
>>>>> years and pushing electric car production.  Lot of places here and
>>>>> abroad will not allow ICE cars in the future.  So why should oil
>>>>> companies increase production.
>>>>
>>>> You bring up some interesting points.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think the future will be like.  I'm talking 20, 30, 40
>>>> years from now.  The easy to get oil will be gone, the hard to get
>>>> oil will cost more to produce and eventually, there will be none.
>>>>
>>>> What would your plan be?  Should we be looking at better ways to
>>>> capture solar?  There is more solar energy on the earth every day
>>>> that we can possibly use.  Should we be fixing the grid?  Should we
>>>> convert the auto fleet to EV so the fuel left can be used in aircraft?
>>>>
>>>> Should we have a plan or just grab as much cheap gas now as we can
>>>> get? Is this just a fiscal situation or do we have a moral
>>>> obligation to consider the future?
>>>
>>> We will never run out of oil but it will continue to be more
>>> expensive.   You could make it from coal with processes know for over
>>> a 100 years.
>>> Carbon dioxide can be sequestered and probably disposed of underground.
>>>
>>> Nuclear is also a good way to go.
>>>
>>> Of course conservation is important as is continuous improvement.
>>> Solar cells keep getting more efficient.
>>>
>>> My new Chevelle decades ago got 16 mpg on all highway driving but my
>>> new Crosstrek today registers 33.5 mpg in all round driving.
>>>
>>> There are inventions to be made, for example, room temperature
>>> superconductivity would save a bundle of energy.
>>
>>
>> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
>> strangely find more.
>>
>
> Everything in the earth is finite.  Prove otherwise.
>
Ask yourself. Where did the oil come from to start
with? Hmmm. Do you realize it is a renewable
resource? Did not know that, did you. But we
will probably get to some point were we use up
the current resources and can not create it fast
enough. But that will be a long time in the
future. Hopefully, you libs will let us use
nuclear power and hydrogen by then. Wind and
solar can match our needs.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:32:33 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:32 UTC

On 04/29/2022 07:08 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an idea. how about a Flat Tax. Or even
>>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>>
>>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>>> year on their W2. "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>>
>> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
>> We all need certain necessities to live. Sure, we can pass on the
>> candy bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
>
> Question. How will paying the same percentage tax the
> poor at a higher rate than the rich? Are you presuming
> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
> to those who are wealthier?
>
> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax. And
> it works. The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.
> That is the nice thing about Federalism. The various
> states can test things before it is forced down
> everyone's throats.

Joe Sixpack, who makes $25,000 a year buys a six pack of Moose Drool for
$10, and pays a 10% sales tax or $1.

https://holidaywinecellar.com/big-sky-moose-drool-brown-ale-6-pack-can/

Elon Musk buys the same six pack for the same $10 and pays the same $1
sales tax.

What percent of Joe's annual income does that $1 represent versus Elon's?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/regressivetax.asp

If you don't understand what a regressive tax is you probably should
stay out of the discussion.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:43:36 -0700
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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 01:43 UTC

On 4/29/22 18:32, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/29/2022 07:08 PM, T wrote:
>> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is an idea.  how about a Flat Tax.  Or even
>>>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>>>
>>>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>>>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>>>> year on their W2.  "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>>>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>>>
>>> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
>>> We all need certain necessities to live.  Sure, we can pass on the
>>> candy bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
>>
>> Question.  How will paying the same percentage tax the
>> poor at a higher rate than the rich?  Are you presuming
>> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
>> to those who are wealthier?
>>
>> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax.  And
>> it works.  The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.
>> That is the nice thing about Federalism.  The various
>> states can test things before it is forced down
>> everyone's throats.
>
> Joe Sixpack, who makes $25,000 a year buys a six pack of Moose Drool for
> $10, and pays a 10% sales tax or $1.
>
> https://holidaywinecellar.com/big-sky-moose-drool-brown-ale-6-pack-can/
>
> Elon Musk buys the same six pack for the same $10 and pays the same $1
> sales tax.
>
> What percent of Joe's annual income does that $1 represent versus Elon's?
>
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/regressivetax.asp
>
> If you don't understand what a regressive tax is you probably should
> stay out of the discussion.

You left out all the other things that Elon purchases that Joe six pack
can never dream of purchasing: Twitter
(YIPPEE!), houses, cars, fancy food, cloths, etc..
A progressive tax punished success and keeps folks from
economic activity. They pan again the tax code, instead of
the public good. We need rich people. They create our
jobs.
Here is an idea: limited government, so the tax burden
is low.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 02:18 UTC

On 4/29/2022 9:08 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an idea.  how about a Flat Tax.  Or even
>>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>>
>>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>>> year on their W2.  "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>>
>> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
>> We all need certain necessities to live.  Sure, we can pass on the
>> candy bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
>
> Question.  How will paying the same percentage tax the
> poor at a higher rate than the rich?  Are you presuming
> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
> to those who are wealthier?

I already explained it. Everyone, rich or poor, has to buy some things
like toilet paper. Let's say it is a dollar a roll. If I make $10 an
hour it is 10% of an hour's wage. If I make $100 an hour it is only 1%
of my wage.

Sure, the rich will pay more if they buy the 96" TV but that is
optional. Soap, not so much.

>
> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax.  And
> it works.  The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.

But they are singled out as you ignore.

>>
>>>
>>> People that do not pay taxes should not be stating what
>>> those that do should be paying.  But ...
>>
>> Yes, good to have unequal say in the government.  What is the minimum
>> wage to earn in order to have voting rights?
>
> Did you miss the "But.." part.  Even though I don't
> like it, I still support it.

If you have morals and ethics you would not bring it up.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 02:23 UTC

On 4/29/2022 9:24 PM, T wrote:

>>> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
>>> strangely find more.
>>>
>>
>> Everything in the earth is finite.  Prove otherwise.
>>
>
> Ask yourself.  Where did the oil come from to start
> with?  Hmmm.  Do you realize it is a renewable
> resource?  Did not know that, did you.  But we
> will probably get to some point were we use up
> the current resources and can not create it fast
> enough.

Perhaps you should invest in oil futures for the new production. Think
how wealthy you will be when they start pumping it

How long did it take for oil to be made?
With an estimated average sedimentation of 50 meters every million
years, it takes 60 million years for dead animals to become liquid
hydrocarbons. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that oil is classified
as a non-renewable energy.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:42:33 -0700
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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 02:42 UTC

On 4/29/22 19:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 9:08 PM, T wrote:
>> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is an idea.  how about a Flat Tax.  Or even
>>>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>>>
>>>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>>>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>>>> year on their W2.  "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>>>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>>>
>>> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
>>> We all need certain necessities to live.  Sure, we can pass on the
>>> candy bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
>>
>> Question.  How will paying the same percentage tax the
>> poor at a higher rate than the rich?  Are you presuming
>> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
>> to those who are wealthier?
>
> I already explained it.  Everyone, rich or poor, has to buy some things
> like toilet paper.  Let's say it is a dollar a roll.  If I make $10 an
> hour it is 10% of an hour's wage.  If I make $100 an hour it is only 1%
> of my wage.
>
> Sure, the rich will pay more if they buy the 96" TV but that is
> optional.  Soap, not so much.
I have a lot of rich customers. They buy a TON more things than I can
buy or ever hope to buy.
So you still have not explained it. Your argument is that
both the rich and the poor buy exactly the same things.
It is clearly not the case.
>> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax.  And
>> it works.  The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.
>
> But they are singled out as you ignore.
They still buy far, far fewer things than the rich.
Not the same things as you purport.
And it would sure beet the system we have now where
the rich pay few taxes than their secretaries.
The middle class is were the money is. And the
middle class can't afford to wax the palms of
politicians to get out of paying taxes.
And when you too spineless to raise taxes on the middle
class and still want their money, you inflate the currency.
This is theft on a grand scale.
>>>> People that do not pay taxes should not be stating what
>>>> those that do should be paying.  But ...
>>>
>>> Yes, good to have unequal say in the government.  What is the minimum
>>> wage to earn in order to have voting rights?
>>
>> Did you miss the "But.." part.  Even though I don't
>> like it, I still support it.
>
> If you have morals and ethics you would not bring it up.
oh brother. Folks with no skin (pay no or little taxes)
in the game should be keenly aware of voting their
own self interest against those with skin in the game
(those that do pay taxes) do eventually screw themselves
and everyone one else. So it does bear mentioning.
You, being a good socialist, are looking at this like
redistribution of wealth is a good thing. I see is
it as a catastrophe. It always winds up screwing
the poor.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

<t4i824$lgt$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 02:48 UTC

On 4/29/22 19:23, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 9:24 PM, T wrote:
>
>>>> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
>>>> strangely find more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everything in the earth is finite.  Prove otherwise.
>>>
>>
>> Ask yourself.  Where did the oil come from to start
>> with?  Hmmm.  Do you realize it is a renewable
>> resource?  Did not know that, did you.  But we
>> will probably get to some point were we use up
>> the current resources and can not create it fast
>> enough.
>
> Perhaps you should invest in oil futures for the new production.  Think
> how wealthy you will be when they start pumping it
>
> How long did it take for oil to be made?
> With an estimated average sedimentation of 50 meters every million
> years, it takes 60 million years for dead animals to become liquid
> hydrocarbons. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that oil is classified
> as a non-renewable energy.
It is amazing how many folks do not realize the relationship
marine snow has to oil.
And you are correct, there is not enough time or marine
snow to keep up with demand. And don't forget the
necessary plate tectonics. Still we keep finding it.
By the time we run out, hopefully we wil be converted
to a hydrogen economy. We have tons of sear water
available, but that to is a finite resource. Though I
doubt humanity will ever run out of it, And burning
hydrogen creates water, which will replenish it.
We only have to get past all the cold war propaganda
against anything nuclear and start making hydrogen
with nuclear power.
These new small reactors that won't melt down are
awesome technologies.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:14 UTC

On 4/29/2022 10:42 PM, T wrote:

> You, being a good socialist,

Not going to wast my time with an explanation. You are a bitter person.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: Bob F - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:59 UTC

On 4/29/2022 7:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 9:24 PM, T wrote:
>
>>>> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
>>>> strangely find more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everything in the earth is finite.  Prove otherwise.
>>>
>>
>> Ask yourself.  Where did the oil come from to start
>> with?  Hmmm.  Do you realize it is a renewable
>> resource?  Did not know that, did you.  But we
>> will probably get to some point were we use up
>> the current resources and can not create it fast
>> enough.
>
> Perhaps you should invest in oil futures for the new production.  Think
> how wealthy you will be when they start pumping it
>
> How long did it take for oil to be made?
> With an estimated average sedimentation of 50 meters every million
> years, it takes 60 million years for dead animals to become liquid
> hydrocarbons. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that oil is classified
> as a non-renewable energy.

And making that oil and other fossil fuels is what gave us our past mild
climate. Repubs want really strongly to get us back to a much hotter
climate where everyone near the equator will be heading north and south.
Better plan for visitors.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:52 UTC

On 4/29/22 20:14, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 10:42 PM, T wrote:
>
>> You, being a good socialist,
>
> Not going to wast my time with an explanation.  You are a bitter person.
At least you are avoiding vulgarities this time.
Socialism only works on paper. In reality, it is a
disaster. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: T - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:16 UTC

On 4/29/22 20:14, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> You are a bitter person.
Not bitter, by the way. Disgusted, would
be a lot more accurate.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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From: hamil...@devnull.com (Cindy Hamilton)
Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: Cindy Hamilton - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:35 UTC

On 2022-04-29, Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Oil production is going down lately if this is right.
><https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/29/united-states-crude-oil-production-joe-biden/>

Drilling permits are up, though. It would appear the oil companies
prefer high oil prices. I am amazed.

<https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/biden-9000-unused-oil-drill-permits/>

--
Cindy Hamilton

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: Pthirus Pubis - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:36 UTC

On 4/30/2022 5:35:26 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2022-04-29, Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oil production is going down lately if this is right.
>> <https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/29/united-states-crude-oil-production-joe-biden/>
>
> Drilling permits are up, though. It would appear the oil companies
> prefer high oil prices. I am amazed.
>
> <https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/biden-9000-unused-oil-drill-permits/>
>

Yet Trump gas was $1.89 with a free side of brutally honest tweets that the snowflakes couldn't handle.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: rbowman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:30 UTC

On 04/29/2022 08:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 9:24 PM, T wrote:
>
>>>> Every time it is declared that oil will run out, we
>>>> strangely find more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everything in the earth is finite. Prove otherwise.
>>>
>>
>> Ask yourself. Where did the oil come from to start
>> with? Hmmm. Do you realize it is a renewable
>> resource? Did not know that, did you. But we
>> will probably get to some point were we use up
>> the current resources and can not create it fast
>> enough.
>
> Perhaps you should invest in oil futures for the new production. Think
> how wealthy you will be when they start pumping it
>
> How long did it take for oil to be made?
> With an estimated average sedimentation of 50 meters every million
> years, it takes 60 million years for dead animals to become liquid
> hydrocarbons. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that oil is classified
> as a non-renewable energy.

https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/news/protein-made-using-co2-and-electricity/

If you can make one hydrocarbon, you can make another. In fact

https://newatlas.com/bioengineers-rebuilding-bacteria-to-produce-crude-oil/7723/

Or you can skip a few steps:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-Coal-To-Gasoline-Plant-Will-Be-The-Largest-In-The-World.html

That isn't a new idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergius_process

"During World War II the United States conducted secret research in
converting coal to gasoline at a facility in Louisiana, Missouri. The
Louisiana operation began about 1946 using captured German technology.
Located along the Mississippi river, this plant was producing gasoline
in commercial quantities by 1948. The Louisiana process method produced
automobile gasoline at a price slightly higher than, but comparable to,
petroleum-based gasoline[7] but of a higher quality.[citation needed]
The facility was shut down in 1953 by the Eisenhower administration,
allegedly after intense lobbying by the oil industry."

Say it ain't so, Joe.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1956/2/15/eisenhower-and-natural-gas-pwhen-the/

Well, maybe...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373864949322

Those guys look happy. fwiw Truman vetoed a similar bill but Ike was all in.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: rbowman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:02 UTC

On 04/29/2022 07:43 PM, T wrote:
> On 4/29/22 18:32, rbowman wrote:
>> On 04/29/2022 07:08 PM, T wrote:
>>> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is an idea. how about a Flat Tax. Or even
>>>>> better yet, a Sale Tax.
>>>>>
>>>>> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
>>>>> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
>>>>> year on their W2. "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
>>>>> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
>>>>
>>>> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
>>>> We all need certain necessities to live. Sure, we can pass on the
>>>> candy bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
>>>
>>> Question. How will paying the same percentage tax the
>>> poor at a higher rate than the rich? Are you presuming
>>> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
>>> to those who are wealthier?
>>>
>>> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax. And
>>> it works. The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.
>>> That is the nice thing about Federalism. The various
>>> states can test things before it is forced down
>>> everyone's throats.
>>
>> Joe Sixpack, who makes $25,000 a year buys a six pack of Moose Drool
>> for $10, and pays a 10% sales tax or $1.
>>
>> https://holidaywinecellar.com/big-sky-moose-drool-brown-ale-6-pack-can/
>>
>> Elon Musk buys the same six pack for the same $10 and pays the same $1
>> sales tax.
>>
>> What percent of Joe's annual income does that $1 represent versus Elon's?
>>
>> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/regressivetax.asp
>>
>> If you don't understand what a regressive tax is you probably should
>> stay out of the discussion.
>
>
> You left out all the other things that Elon purchases that Joe six pack
> can never dream of purchasing: Twitter
> (YIPPEE!), houses, cars, fancy food, cloths, etc..

There is another problem. Unless they're Jay Leno wealthy people don't
buy an unlimited number of cars. Sure, the sales tax on a Mercedes S
Class would buy a Nissan, but how many cars does a person need? Unless
they are Imelda Marcos, how many pair of shoes? Even without discussing
sales tax, it is a problem that the wealthy don't hold their end up for
buying stuff, particularly when conspicuous consumption has become declasse.

btw Musk is not the best choice. While he is a gearhead and has a few
cars he's fresh out of mansions:

https://www.menshealth.com/trending-news/a39806827/elon-musk-couch-surfing/

> A progressive tax punished success and keeps folks from
> economic activity. They pan again the tax code, instead of
> the public good. We need rich people. They create our
> jobs.

In China... You're using the 8th grade Civics class model. Musk, Bezos,
and others create jobs. How much 'wealth' is paper wealth from the stock
market? Arguably Sam Walton was an innovator who created jobs. What have
his spawn done for the world lately?

> Here is an idea: limited government, so the tax burden
> is low.

We can agree on that but no government would be even better. The purpose
of any government is, and has been, to protect the interests of the
powerful, including its own minions.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:38 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 4/29/2022 3:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/29/2022 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Add to this the mandate of demanding something like 49 mpg in a few
>>> years and pushing electric car production.  Lot of places here and
>>> abroad will not allow ICE cars in the future.  So why should oil
>>> companies increase production.
>>
>> You bring up some interesting points.
>>
>> What do you think the future will be like.  I'm talking 20, 30, 40 years
>> from now.  The easy to get oil will be gone, the hard to get oil will
>> cost more to produce and eventually, there will be none.
>>
>> What would your plan be?  Should we be looking at better ways to capture
>> solar?  There is more solar energy on the earth every day that we can
>> possibly use.  Should we be fixing the grid?  Should we convert the auto
>> fleet to EV so the fuel left can be used in aircraft?
>>
>> Should we have a plan or just grab as much cheap gas now as we can get?
>> Is this just a fiscal situation or do we have a moral obligation to
>> consider the future?
>
>We will never run out of oil but it will continue to be more expensive.

Nonsense. There will be a point in the near future where
mineral oil will not be worth the cost to extract it. Synthetics,
will fill the need (particulary for aviation). There is a big
push for synthetics in the aviation industry today (viz. SAF).

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/

'But our reaction to a diminishing flow of fossil fuel
energy in the short-term will determine whether we transition
to a sustainable but technological existence or allow ourselves
to collapse'

> You could make it from coal with processes know for over a 100 years.

Not viable, but there other more viable processes, for example:

https://www.bp.com/en/global/air-bp/news-and-views/views/what-is-sustainable-aviation-fuel-saf-and-why-is-it-important.html

>Carbon dioxide can be sequestered and probably disposed of underground.

On what basis do you use the word "probably"?

Why bother when renewables are less expensive?

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:39:53 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:39 UTC

On 04/30/2022 03:35 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2022-04-29, Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oil production is going down lately if this is right.
>> <https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/29/united-states-crude-oil-production-joe-biden/>
>
> Drilling permits are up, though. It would appear the oil companies
> prefer high oil prices. I am amazed.
>
> <https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/biden-9000-unused-oil-drill-permits/>
>

I'm not an apologist for the oil industry but in a boom or bust industry
rushing in often isn't a good idea.

We're coming up on an anniversary, May 2, 1982. They call it Black
Sunday in western Colorado. Oil prices started collapsing in 1981.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s_oil_glut

On that day Exxon shuttered their Colonial shale oil project putting
2000 people out of work overnight and destroying the local economy.

The Bakken play was similar. With falling oil prices they shut down
wells but they're trying to bring them back online but finding workers
is hard after everyone left. The neighbor's kids did very well during
the good years but when the wells shutdown they moved on. I think
they're in Texas now.

That's one play. I don't know how many wells will be coming online
throughout the country. Given the current situation I'd be reluctant to
start a new exploration program too.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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Subject: Re: OT: this is what causes inflation
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 by: trader_4 - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:09 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 8:20:43 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
>
> > Here is an idea. how about a Flat Tax. Or even
> > better yet, a Sale Tax.
> >
> > A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
> > they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
> > year on their W2. "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
> > this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
> Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier.
> We all need certain necessities to live. Sure, we can pass on the candy
> bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.

Agree. If you're going to have a flat tax, then it needs to start above
some threshold level, otherwise it's very regressive and unfair. And if
you instead have a graduated tax, you could have lower income people
pay something, at a lower rate, so that even they pay something, have
some skin in the game and don't think the next govt giveaway has no
costs associated with it.

> >
> > People that do not pay taxes should not be stating what
> > those that do should be paying. But ...
> Yes, good to have unequal say in the government. What is the minimum
> wage to earn in order to have voting rights?
> >
> > Flat Tax is probably the most workable idea. Politicians
> > will kick and scream on that one too. Can't buy favor,
> > etc..
> Graduated flat tax, yes, get rid of all the deductions and loopholes.
> Graduate the percentage on the first 100k or so.
>
> All we have to do is get the tax accountant and tax lawyers to lobby
> congress for it.

Something along those lines would be reasonable, but I don't see it
happening anytime soon. It looks to me like we're headed for a US
govt financial disaster, where creditors start to view the US like
the third world countries that have been unable to meet their debt
obligations. What happens then, no one can predict.

Re: OT: this is what causes inflation

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 by: trader_4 - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:17 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 9:08:39 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 4/29/22 17:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 4/29/2022 7:09 PM, T wrote:
> >
> >> Here is an idea. how about a Flat Tax. Or even
> >> better yet, a Sale Tax.
> >>
> >> A sales tax would also keep i people's mind what
> >> they are paying, rather than only seeing it once a
> >> year on their W2. "I am paying HOW MUCH EXTRA for
> >> this candy bar FOR WHAT !?!?!"
> >
> > Sales tax will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the wealthier. We
> > all need certain necessities to live. Sure, we can pass on the candy
> > bar but we all use toilet paper, laundry products, etc.
> Question. How will paying the same percentage tax the
> poor at a higher rate than the rich? Are you presuming
> that there will be some ID scheme that will give a break
> to those who are wealthier?

It's not that it taxes the poor at a higher rate, it's that the poor have
to spend just about everything they earn, they don't have the same
ability to pay that rich people do. If we had a flat 20% tax, the poor
family earning $30K would pay $6K, that's a big hit when you have to
cover the essentials of living. The rich guy earning $1 mil, would pay
$150K, that's not going to impact that families lives, their existence,
like the $6K hit to the poor family would.

>
> Oh, by the way, our state only has a sales tax. And
> it works. The "poor" and not singled out as you suppose.

Actually they are affected more, per the above reasoning.
The rich family making $1 mil a year can go buy a vacation house
and I bet your state doesn't tax it. Or they can put $500K into
stocks or investments and it's not taxed. But the poor family
earning $30K winds up spending almost all of it and getting
taxed for spending it. That's why many states exempt food,
clothing, rent from sales tax.

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