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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

SubjectAuthor
* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsdanny burstein
|+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
|  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|   `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsSam E
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
|| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDerby Dad
||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||     `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||| |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|||  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsThomas
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | |||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | ||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |||       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||        +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |||        `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | ||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|| | |  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |    +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |      |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |        `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |         `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |           `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |            +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |            |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |            | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
|| | |            `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |             `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
|| | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
|| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRandy Patzkowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsSteve Mills

Pages:12345
Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: deanh6...@gmail.com (Dean Hoffman)
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 by: Dean Hoffman - Mon, 2 May 2022 02:50 UTC

This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4nh5b$ied$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: dan...@panix.com (danny burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 02:54:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: danny burstein - Mon, 2 May 2022 02:54 UTC

In <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com> Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> writes:

>This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>apartments or condos.

So, well, do you have a point? Let's say the US demand
for gasoline drops, oh, five percent each year for
the next five years courtesy of EV switchover, leading
to a total switch of 25 percent.

Umm, don't ou think that would have a BIG impact
on pricing?

><https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<jiIbK.163030$Kdf.79905@fx96.iad>

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 03:33 UTC

On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>

There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.

Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
narrow streets you can't have them.

Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.

I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
add about 20 miles a minute.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 04:02 UTC

On 5/1/2022 10:54 PM, danny burstein wrote:
> In <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com> Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> apartments or condos.
>
> So, well, do you have a point? Let's say the US demand
> for gasoline drops, oh, five percent each year for
> the next five years courtesy of EV switchover, leading
> to a total switch of 25 percent.
>
> Umm, don't ou think that would have a BIG impact
> on pricing?
>

Shell Oil is installing a lot of chargers. They see the future.
https://shellenergy.com/products-and-services/energy-solutions/ev-charging-optimization/

Did you see what I posted this morning about shortages?
Out of Stock:Supply chain Crisis
Episode 3 was about fuel pricing.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<60ev6h95rj0kvpnbaqjp7pejdahudgu0lu@4ax.com>

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From: NONONOmi...@fmguy.com (micky)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: micky - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:56 UTC

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 19:50:34 -0700 (PDT), Dean
Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:

>This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
><https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>

That's why I've started my new business, importing extension cords to
the US. 100, 300, 500 foot cords, so even if you live on the 40th
story, you can put an extension cord out your window. These are from
Greece, the premier maker of extension cords.

But so far, I've only contracted for 3000 cords, totalling 90,000 feet.
I could do more -- I can easily sell 500,000 feet of cords -- if I had
investors. I accept Zelle and Paypal. We can sign the contracts
later.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<caev6h9n81rk03die6mfasoi1o2kpmak6g@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: micky - Mon, 2 May 2022 11:02 UTC

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>
>
>There are a couple of apartment complexes

BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
apartment?

> going up a couple of miles
>from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>
>Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>narrow streets you can't have them.
>
>Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>
>I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
>chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>add about 20 miles a minute.

I think in Baltimore there are a lot more. The first year I lived in
my townhouse, my car battery was dead. I'm in the corner and didn't
have a long enough cord, so I plugged into the guy in the next section,
who was closest to the car. He was not home, and he was annoyed when he
got home. What does it cost to charge a battery with a 5-amp charger.
Maybe 5 cents? Maybe he thought it was more. I don't think he ever
liked me after that.

That's why I'm importaing Super-good grade-A maximo Greek extension
cords, the very best kind.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<VuRbK.21410$sdfb.9852@fx41.iad>

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From: sco...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:01 UTC

Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> writes:
>This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
><https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>

And how many of those 1/3 don't have a car at all? Quite common in the larger
cities with good public transportation systems.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.

I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.

>
> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> narrow streets you can't have them.
>
> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.

Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
an issue.

Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".

And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
in charging lots.

Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
A parking spot in Manhattan.

>
> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> add about 20 miles a minute.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:16 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:01:33 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> writes:
> >This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> ><https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> And how many of those 1/3 don't have a car at all? Quite common in the larger
> cities with good public transportation systems.

Like NYC?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:15 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> > > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> > There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> > from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> > point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
> I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
> chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
> inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
> >
> > Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> > narrow streets you can't have them.
> >
> > Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> an issue.
>
> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
>
> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> in charging lots.
>
> Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
> What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
> A parking spot in Manhattan.
> >
> > I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> > chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> > add about 20 miles a minute.

New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
over there I'll take a closer look.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:42 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > > On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > > > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> > > > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> > > There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> > > from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> > > point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
> > I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
> > chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
> > inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
> > >
> > > Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> > > narrow streets you can't have them.
> > >
> > > Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> > an issue.
> >
> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> >
> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> > in charging lots.
> >
> > Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
> > What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
> > A parking spot in Manhattan.
> > >
> > > I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> > > chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> > > add about 20 miles a minute.
> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
> over there I'll take a closer look.

"Over there" - that's my whole point.

Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
charge at home.

As I said, I grew up in NYC. If I still lived there and my only option for charging
was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot, that would
certainly be an issue for me.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: non...@none.invalid (Jim Joyce)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: Jim Joyce - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:52 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 14:02:03 +0300, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>The first year I lived in
>my townhouse, my car battery was dead. I'm in the corner and didn't
>have a long enough cord, so I plugged into the guy in the next section,
>who was closest to the car. He was not home, and he was annoyed when he
>got home.

If it was me, the nice thing about catching you after the fact is that I
can charge you whatever I want. Say, $25 for electricity and $100 for
the theft. Or double that if I'm extra annoyed by the thievery. We can
skip all of that, if you like, and I can just file a police report.

>What does it cost to charge a battery with a 5-amp charger.
>Maybe 5 cents? Maybe he thought it was more.

If you're using your own power, I guess it costs whatever a suitable
extension cord costs, plus the actual electricity. If you decide to
steal someone else's power, I would think it costs much, much, more.

>I don't think he ever liked me after that.

You think? What else, of his, might you help yourself to, without asking
permission?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
 by: Randy Patzkowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:52 UTC

On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>

Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.

The electric grid can't handle the load. My electric company is constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they can cut me off on hot days.
The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in their cars.

This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:57 UTC

Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > > On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> > > > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>> > > > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>> > > There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
>> > > from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>> > > point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>> > I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
>> > chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
>> > inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
>> > >
>> > > Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>> > > narrow streets you can't have them.
>> > >
>> > > Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
>> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
>> > an issue.
>> >
>> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
>> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
>> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
>> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
>> >
>> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
>> > in charging lots.
>> >
>> > Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
>> > What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
>> > A parking spot in Manhattan.
>> > >
>> > > I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
>> > > chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>> > > add about 20 miles a minute.
>> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
>> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
>> over there I'll take a closer look.
>
>"Over there" - that's my whole point.
>
>Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
>centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
>in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
>charge at home.
>
>As I said, I grew up in NYC. If I still lived there and my only option for charging
>was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot, that would
>certainly be an issue for me.

Perhaps if you lived there, you wouldn't need to own a vehicle at
all; renting if you need to drive to jersey (or taking PATH and
renting in Newark).

In any case, if there is a need for EV charging in Manhatten, someone
will come up with a solution.

https://www.axios.com/a-roadway-will-charge-your-ev-while-youre-driving-f2f2ad5b-3735-4948-bc50-b486f076a255.html

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:24 UTC

On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:

>>
>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>
> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> an issue.

Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.

>
> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.

I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
within a block but still no place for chargers.

Now toss in trying to find
> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".

Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
different than buying gas.

>
> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> in charging lots.

How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.

There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
work.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:31 UTC

On 5/2/2022 11:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>> There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
>>>> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>>>> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>>> I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
>>> chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
>>> inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
>>>>
>>>> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>>>> narrow streets you can't have them.
>>>>
>>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
>>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
>>> an issue.
>>>
>>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
>>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
>>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
>>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
>>>
>>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
>>> in charging lots.
>>>
>>> Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
>>> What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
>>> A parking spot in Manhattan.
>>>>
>>>> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
>>>> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>>>> add about 20 miles a minute.
>> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
>> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
>> over there I'll take a closer look.
>
> "Over there" - that's my whole point.
>
> Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
> centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
> in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
> charge at home.

Right, those living on narrow streets have a tanker come and fill the
gas tank for them. Or they have a home gas pump.

True that an EV does take a bit longer but you can go to a charger just
like you go to a gas station. Figure 15 minutes or so.

Sure, some people CAN charge at home but the range is about the same as
an ICE so once a week or so you stop and charge. If you can do it while
shopping or dining, even better.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:36 UTC

On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> apartments or condos.
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>
>
>
> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>
> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
> can cut me off on hot days.
> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
> their cars.
>
> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.

Yes, I understand there are laws against ever upgrading the grid. Was
it in the Constitution?

Stupid people started buying cars before there were gas stations too but
that seemed to settle down in recent years.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Frank - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:37 UTC

On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> apartments or condos.
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>
>
>
> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>
> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
> can cut me off on hot days.
> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
> their cars.
>
> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.

I read it takes about 32 amps to charge an EV probably at 220 volts. It
can take up to ten hours to charge a Tesla at home. Guess that means a
ten to fifteen percent increase in current home service. One hell of a
strain on electric infrastructure.

I always have said I have nothing against EV's but highly object to it
being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and technology.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: micky - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:48 UTC

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 02 May 2022 16:57:30 GMT,
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

>Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> > > On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> > > > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>>> > > > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>> > > There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
>>> > > from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>>> > > point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>>> > I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
>>> > chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
>>> > inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
>>> > >
>>> > > Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>>> > > narrow streets you can't have them.
>>> > >
>>> > > Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>>> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
>>> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
>>> > an issue.
>>> >
>>> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
>>> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
>>> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>>> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>>> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
>>> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".

When I lived in Brooklyn, I had a simlar problem, of course. Sometimes
I'd drive around in the morning looking for a place without street
cleaning that day between 11 and 2. One time when I realized I was
going to be late to work, I could feel my stomach and intestines turning
into a knot. I found a space and got to work a little late, but 3 days
later, the knot was still there and I went to a doctor. He wanted to
prescribe a combination anti-spasmodic/tranquilizer, but I asked for
just the plain anti-spasmodic. I said I was tranquil enough (3 days
later.) It worked, at least I don't have the problem 40 years later.

BTW, at work in NY, they just assumed the train was slow and at least if
you weren't dealing with customers, ignored it if you came in late. I
always made up the time but they never checked. (They didn't keep track
that I was only 4 stops from work.)
>>> >
>>> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
>>> > in charging lots.
>>> >
>>> > Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
>>> > What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
>>> > A parking spot in Manhattan.
>>> > >
>>> > > I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
>>> > > chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>>> > > add about 20 miles a minute.
>>> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
>>> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
>>> over there I'll take a closer look.
>>
>>"Over there" - that's my whole point.
>>
>>Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
>>centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
>>in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
>>charge at home.
>>
>>As I said, I grew up in NYC. If I still lived there and my only option for charging
>>was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot, that would
>>certainly be an issue for me.
>
>Perhaps if you lived there, you wouldn't need to own a vehicle at
>all; renting if you need to drive to jersey (or taking PATH and
>renting in Newark).

That's what my mother told my brother, but way back in 1965, there were
a million cars registered in NYCity's 5 boros. He was in Brooklyn for
a year and then NYC for 3. I guess he paid for a garage, even though
residents only made $4000/4500, then 5000 a year then. We folks from
Indiana can't live without a car.

>In any case, if there is a need for EV charging in Manhatten, someone
>will come up with a solution.
>
>https://www.axios.com/a-roadway-will-charge-your-ev-while-youre-driving-f2f2ad5b-3735-4948-bc50-b486f076a255.html

That sounds like a perpetual motion machine!!

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Sam E - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:49 UTC

On 5/2/22 06:02, micky wrote:

[snip]

>> There are a couple of apartment complexes
>
> BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
> apartment?

An apartment isn't complex. The "complex" part is multiple buildings.

[snip]

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: micky - Mon, 2 May 2022 17:53 UTC

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 2 May 2022 13:36:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>> apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>
>> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
>> can cut me off on hot days.
>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>> their cars.
>>
>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>
>Yes, I understand there are laws against ever upgrading the grid. Was
>it in the Constitution?

The Constitution bars increases in wood and charcoal fires, but a
liberal Supreme Court in the 1880's allowed that to be extended to coal
and coke. Electricity has not been litigated yet.

>Stupid people started buying cars before there were gas stations too but
>that seemed to settle down in recent years.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:06 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >
> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> > an issue.
> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
> >
> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
> within a block but still no place for chargers.
> Now toss in trying to find
> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
> different than buying gas.

All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles worth of
gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less than that.
Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling up.

And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the pumps?
You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so small
you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2 pump
kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the building
and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?

IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
poke holes in it.

As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to deal with
facts.

> >
> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> > in charging lots.
> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.

See above.

> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
>
> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
> work.

I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting about how
it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not exactly the same
thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every existing station.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:17 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:31:57 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 11:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> >>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> >>>> There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> >>>> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> >>>> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
> >>> I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
> >>> chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
> >>> inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
> >>>>
> >>>> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> >>>> narrow streets you can't have them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> >>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> >>> an issue.
> >>>
> >>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> >>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> >>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> >>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> >>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
> >>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> >>>
> >>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> >>> in charging lots.
> >>>
> >>> Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
> >>> What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
> >>> A parking spot in Manhattan.
> >>>>
> >>>> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> >>>> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> >>>> add about 20 miles a minute.
> >> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
> >> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
> >> over there I'll take a closer look.
> >
> > "Over there" - that's my whole point.
> >
> > Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
> > centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
> > in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
> > charge at home.
> Right, those living on narrow streets have a tanker come and fill the
> gas tank for them. Or they have a home gas pump.

Sarcasm always raises the quality of a discussion. Thank you for that.

>
> True that an EV does take a bit longer but you can go to a charger just
> like you go to a gas station. Figure 15 minutes or so.

Addressed in my other response.

>
> Sure, some people CAN charge at home but the range is about the same as
> an ICE so once a week or so you stop and charge. If you can do it while
> shopping or dining, even better.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:30 UTC

On 5/2/2022 2:06 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>>>
>>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
>>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
>>> an issue.
>> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
>> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
>> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
>>>
>>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
>>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
>>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
>> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
>> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
>> within a block but still no place for chargers.
>> Now toss in trying to find
>>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
>> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
>> different than buying gas.
>
> All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles worth of
> gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less than that.
> Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling up.
>
> And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the pumps?
> You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so small
> you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2 pump
> kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the building
> and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?
>
> IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
> poke holes in it.
>
> As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to deal with
> facts.
>
>>>
>>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
>>> in charging lots.
>> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
>
> See above.
>
>> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
>> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
>>
>> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
>> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
>> work.
>
> I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting about how
> it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not exactly the same
> thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every existing station.
>
>
Why not?
Amazing how people can spot the negatives and never look at the solution.

Unlike a gas station that needs tanks, charging stations can be located
in other places. One of my favorite restaurants has one so I can have
lunch and come out to a full charged car. Trader mentioned Target. I
can shop and come out to a full charged car.

Yes, it does take longer that pumping gas. It would be good for
business at the coffee shop to have one for customer use too.

I lived in Philly for 35 years. Yes some stations are small, others are
just a spacious and anywhere in the world and could fit a charger or two.

If I said I have a pound of solid gold here and all you have to do is
pick it up, some would complain they have to pay a bridge toll to come
get it so would not bother.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:37 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 12:57:36 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:15:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:33:41 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > > On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >> > > > This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
> >> > > > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> >> > > There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> >> > > from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> >> > > point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
> >> > I know a few people that own Airbnb's. It's getting to be a trend to install
> >> > chargers so that you can add that to your list of amenities. Pre-booking
> >> > inquiries asking if EV charging is available are becoming more common.
> >> > >
> >> > > Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> >> > > narrow streets you can't have them.
> >> > >
> >> > > Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> >> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> >> > an issue.
> >> >
> >> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> >> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> >> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> >> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> >> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house. Now toss in trying to find
> >> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> >> >
> >> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> >> > in charging lots.
> >> >
> >> > Time for a not-so-funny riddle:
> >> > What's 8' wide, 10' long and costs $1000 per month?
> >> > A parking spot in Manhattan.
> >> > >
> >> > > I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> >> > > chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> >> > > add about 20 miles a minute.
> >> New Target is going in here. They have a section of charging spots, located
> >> farthest away from the entrance. Looks like it could be 15 or more, next time I'm
> >> over there I'll take a closer look.
> >
> >"Over there" - that's my whole point.
> >
> >Does Ed's "proliferation of Level 3 chargers" mean parking lots at shopping
> >centers? If so, I don't consider that as solving the issue for those that live
> >in row houses or on narrow streets - or more encompassing: those that can't
> >charge at home.
> >
> >As I said, I grew up in NYC. If I still lived there and my only option for charging
> >was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot, that would
> >certainly be an issue for me.
> Perhaps if you lived there, you wouldn't need to own a vehicle at
> all; renting if you need to drive to jersey (or taking PATH and
> renting in Newark).

Seriously? Like Jersey is the only place I might want to go? And renting
a car whenever I did need one? Not only expensive in terms of dollars but
also an extreme waste of time.

NYC isn't just Manhattan. I lived in Queens. My family always had cars -
multiple cars.

The subway (or even buses) aren't always just a few blocks away and
they surely don't always go where you want to go. From where I lived
getting to the PATH trains would be a 1/2 mile walk, a bus to the subway
and IIRC 2 - 3 subway transfers depending on the time of day. And time of
day when I would need 3 transfers is not the time of day I would want to
be spending extra time in subway stations.

Subways and busses don't go the scenic spots upstate or out on Long Island.
I can take a bus - on their schedule - and have access to the most crowded of
all the beaches at Jones Beach or I can take my car choose any of the beaches
in the 6 mile stretch, coming and going as I please.

I like to drive. That is the #1 reason I did not take a single interview for jobs near
NYC when I graduated from college. I had no idea where I would end up, but I
knew it wasn't going to be in a big city where I couldn't park or drive at or above
the speed limit. My degree was my ticket out.

>
> In any case, if there is a need for EV charging in Manhatten, someone
> will come up with a solution.
>
> https://www.axios.com/a-roadway-will-charge-your-ev-while-youre-driving-f2f2ad5b-3735-4948-bc50-b486f076a255.html

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