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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

SubjectAuthor
* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsdanny burstein
|+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
|  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|   `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsSam E
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
|| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDerby Dad
||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||     `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||| |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|||  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsThomas
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | |||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | ||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |||       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||        +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |||        `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | ||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|| | |  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |    +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |      |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |        `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |         `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |           `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |            +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |            |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |            | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
|| | |            `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |             `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
|| | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
|| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRandy Patzkowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsSteve Mills

Pages:12345
Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<sJVbK.183938$Kdf.42800@fx96.iad>

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From: sco...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:50 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>> apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>
>> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
>> can cut me off on hot days.
>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>> their cars.
>>
>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>
>I read it takes about 32 amps to charge an EV probably at 220 volts. It
>can take up to ten hours to charge a Tesla at home. Guess that means a
>ten to fifteen percent increase in current home service. One hell of a
>strain on electric infrastructure.

Actually, you should read up on the home chargers, which are quite intelligent,
and will cut back on draw when other appliances (e.g. an electric oven, dryer)
are operating.

Note also that most home services are at least 100A.

Note also that the average US home household consumes 30 KWh
per day, or slight over 1000 watts (call it 10 amps) average per hour.

Note also that in areas where rooftop solar is common (or mandated for
new construction) the solar production will offset any requirements
from the grid.

100A home service will be more than sufficient to support 220v EV charger.

>being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and technology.

Something you seem to have trouble with.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<MXVbK.882124$sb1.691736@fx11.ams1>

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 by: Karen - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:05 UTC

On 5/2/2022 4:52:42 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>
>
> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>
> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they can cut me off on hot days.
> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in their cars.
>
> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.

After the democrat's Great Reset, this is what the bottom 99% will drive...if they're lucky. If you dis the government, you'll get a bicycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZId54H32dc

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:25 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:30:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 2:06 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >>>
> >>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> >>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> >>> an issue.
> >> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
> >> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
> >> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
> >>>
> >>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> >>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> >>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> >>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> >>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
> >> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
> >> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
> >> within a block but still no place for chargers.
> >> Now toss in trying to find
> >>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> >> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
> >> different than buying gas.
> >
> > All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles worth of
> > gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less than that.
> > Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling up.
> >
> > And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the pumps?
> > You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so small
> > you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2 pump
> > kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the building
> > and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?
> >
> > IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
> > poke holes in it.
> >
> > As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to deal with
> > facts.
> >
> >>>
> >>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> >>> in charging lots.
> >> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
> >
> > See above.
> >
> >> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
> >> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
> >>
> >> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
> >> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
> >> work.
> >
> > I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting about how
> > it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not exactly the same
> > thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every existing station.
> >
> >
> Why not?
> Amazing how people can spot the negatives and never look at the solution.

Good grief. It's not "spotting negatives" when I point out an actual issue with
what you say. Down below you seem to agree with my point that chargers
won't be in "every gas station" and also that it will take longer to charge.

Do you expect me to simply jump on board and agree with everything
you say -"once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any different
than buying gas.", etc.? As I said before, exaggeration is not how anyone
is going to win over someone who truly believes that EV's will never work.
And as I've said before *That's not me*. I believe that they can be a viable
alternative for some people and a huge help with our growing environmental
issues. However, I'm not going to parrot your "happy, happy, everything will
fine, just you wait" exaggerations.

Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
people over to your side.

>
> Unlike a gas station that needs tanks, charging stations can be located
> in other places. One of my favorite restaurants has one so I can have
> lunch and come out to a full charged car. Trader mentioned Target. I
> can shop and come out to a full charged car.

I never argued with that. Great idea. More places should have them.
What I said was: "If I still lived there and my only option for charging
was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot,
that would certainly be an issue for me."

>
> Yes, it does take longer that pumping gas. It would be good for
> business at the coffee shop to have one for customer use too.
>
> I lived in Philly for 35 years. Yes some stations are small, others are
> just a spacious and anywhere in the world and could fit a charger or two.

So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.

>
> If I said I have a pound of solid gold here and all you have to do is
> pick it up, some would complain they have to pay a bridge toll to come
> get it so would not bother.

....and that would be a stupid decision. However, if you added that it would
cost me absolutely nothing to come and get it, I would point out that that
is not exactly true. However, I would pay the toll (and gas/charge) to retrieve
my bounty. Do you see the difference?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<PhWbK.121993$4c1.19494@fx13.ams1>

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 by: Karen - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:28 UTC

On 5/2/2022 1:36:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>
>>
>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>
>> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they can cut me off on hot days.
>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in their cars.
>>
>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>
> Yes, I understand there are laws against ever upgrading the grid.  Was it in the Constitution?

So why won't the power companies upgrade for AC? What's with the on demand metering?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:55 UTC

On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:

>
> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> people over to your side.
>

I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
shortcoming can be overcome.

>
> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>

We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/

I'd not say if if it was not happening.

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: canope...@gmail.com (Thomas)
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 by: Thomas - Mon, 2 May 2022 20:16 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>
> >
> > Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> > people over to your side.
> >
> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
> shortcoming can be overcome.
> >
> > So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> > just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
> > are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
> >
> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>
> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>
> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
That can happen.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Mon, 2 May 2022 20:29 UTC

On 5/2/2022 4:16 PM, Thomas wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
>>> people over to your side.
>>>
>> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
>> shortcoming can be overcome.
>>>
>>> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
>>> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
>>> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>>>
>> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
>> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
>> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>>
>> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>>
>> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
> That can happen.

It is happening but so far limited. Batteries will have to be
standardized.

Starts at 7 minutes to see the swap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw&ab_channel=FullyChargedShow

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 13:54:21 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Mon, 2 May 2022 20:54 UTC

On 5/2/2022 1:16 PM, Thomas wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
>>> people over to your side.
>>>
>> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
>> shortcoming can be overcome.
>>>
>>> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
>>> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
>>> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>>>
>> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
>> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
>> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>>
>> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>>
>> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
> That can happen.

Drive in with your brand new battery, and drive out with an unknown used
one. What a deal.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 2 May 2022 21:04 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>
> >
> > Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> > people over to your side.
> >
> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
> shortcoming can be overcome.

Hmm...that's called a "side". You've chosen the side that feels the existing
shortcomings can be overcome. You can't deny that there are those don't
think that will ever happen.

If you were in a room and somebody pointed while saying "EV proponents
over there, EV nay-sayers over there" which *side* of the room would you
end up on?

> >
> > So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> > just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
> > are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
> >
> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.

Shell isn't the only one. Yes, it's happening. But will we ever reach your *every*
gas station and 7-11 prediction? I lean heavily towards doubting that and
that is what I have been saying all along.

> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>
> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>
> I'd not say if if it was not happening.

Please don't snip and choose to defend your points. Let's see what
you said, in it's original form:

"once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any different than
buying gas." The word "every" applies to both gas stations and 7-11's.

Rough numbers, there are over 10K 7-11's in the US and CA. After
this rollout, they will have chargers at 250. it's a start.

> I'd not say if if it was not happening

What's not happening is a rollout to *every* 7-11 (at least not yet) and I
stand by my "doubts" that there will ever be a charger at *every* 7-11. I
guess we'll just have to wait and see.

In the meantime, I won't be using the "every" word when I talk up the
coming infrastructure. More readily available, conveniently located,
standardization, etc. No exaggerated concepts that immediately make
people stop listening or cause push back.

That's what I mean by "take it down a notch".

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 15:41:32 -0700
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 by: T - Mon, 2 May 2022 22:41 UTC

On 5/2/22 10:37, Frank wrote:
> I always have said I have nothing against EV's but highly object to it
> being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and technology.
>
1+

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: deanh6...@gmail.com (Dean Hoffman)
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 by: Dean Hoffman - Mon, 2 May 2022 22:44 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:54:40 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
> In <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126...@googlegroups.com> Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
> >apartments or condos.
> So, well, do you have a point? Let's say the US demand
> for gasoline drops, oh, five percent each year for
> the next five years courtesy of EV switchover, leading
> to a total switch of 25 percent.

I live in a rural area and had no idea so many people are houseless. Small towns
don't have apartments as a general rule. There aren't many people of working age
who don't have access to a personal vehicle. A farmer could have access to several.

>
> Umm, don't ou think that would have a BIG impact
> on pricing?
>
> ><https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> --
> _____________________________________________________
> Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
> dan...@panix.com
> [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 18:48:31 -0400
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 by: Frank - Mon, 2 May 2022 22:48 UTC

On 5/2/2022 2:50 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>>> apartments or condos.
>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>>
>>> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
>>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
>>> can cut me off on hot days.
>>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>>> their cars.
>>>
>>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>>
>> I read it takes about 32 amps to charge an EV probably at 220 volts. It
>> can take up to ten hours to charge a Tesla at home. Guess that means a
>> ten to fifteen percent increase in current home service. One hell of a
>> strain on electric infrastructure.
>
> Actually, you should read up on the home chargers, which are quite intelligent,
> and will cut back on draw when other appliances (e.g. an electric oven, dryer)
> are operating.
>
> Note also that most home services are at least 100A.
>
> Note also that the average US home household consumes 30 KWh
> per day, or slight over 1000 watts (call it 10 amps) average per hour.
>
> Note also that in areas where rooftop solar is common (or mandated for
> new construction) the solar production will offset any requirements
> from the grid.
>
> 100A home service will be more than sufficient to support 220v EV charger.
>
>
>> being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and technology.
>
> Something you seem to have trouble with.

Doesn't any rational person?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 09:21:39 +1000
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 by: Jock - Mon, 2 May 2022 23:21 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 13:33:35 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> apartments or condos.
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>
>
> There are a couple of apartment complexes going up a couple of miles
> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>
> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> narrow streets you can't have them.
>
> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.

Bullshit.

> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes

Nothing like what a gas station can do.

> and add about 20 miles a minute.

And fucks the very expensive battery.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 2 May 2022 23:31 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >
> > Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> > like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> > an issue.
> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
> >
> > Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> > so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> > in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> > problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> > find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
> within a block but still no place for chargers.
> Now toss in trying to find
> > a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
> different than buying gas.

It's still going to be very different. Gasoline has an extremely high energy
density. A gas station can store 30K gallons of gas and put it into
2000 cars in a day. No way they are going to charge anywhere near 2000
cars in a day.

> >
> > And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> > in charging lots.
> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.

Yes, but in 5 minutes you can fully charge a car with gas, not so with electric.
Some have proposed battery swaps, but go figure the storage needed to hold
the batteries for 2000 cars and what that facility would have to look like.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 2 May 2022 23:42 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:30:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 2:06 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >>>
> >>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
> >>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
> >>> an issue.
> >> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
> >> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
> >> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
> >>>
> >>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
> >>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
> >>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
> >>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
> >>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
> >> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
> >> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
> >> within a block but still no place for chargers.
> >> Now toss in trying to find
> >>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
> >> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
> >> different than buying gas.
> >
> > All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles worth of
> > gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less than that.
> > Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling up.
> >
> > And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the pumps?
> > You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so small
> > you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2 pump
> > kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the building
> > and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?
> >
> > IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
> > poke holes in it.
> >
> > As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to deal with
> > facts.
> >
> >>>
> >>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
> >>> in charging lots.
> >> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
> >
> > See above.
> >
> >> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
> >> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
> >>
> >> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
> >> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
> >> work.
> >
> > I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting about how
> > it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not exactly the same
> > thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every existing station.
> >
> >
> Why not?
> Amazing how people can spot the negatives and never look at the solution.
>
> Unlike a gas station that needs tanks, charging stations can be located
> in other places. One of my favorite restaurants has one so I can have
> lunch and come out to a full charged car. Trader mentioned Target. I
> can shop and come out to a full charged car.

If it's a Tesla supercharger you could. They can give you 200 miles in
15 minutes. I doubt the ones at Target are those though,
I'll check when I'm over there. But even if they are, this quickly leads to
another problem, those are in the 100KW range. That's twice the total
capacity of a typical new home. And the typical home never gets anywhere
near that. So you're going to need a grid that can support that kind of
power. Start charging dozens of those in a lot and it adds up quick.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 2 May 2022 23:46 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> > > people over to your side.
> > >
> > I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
> > shortcoming can be overcome.
> > >
> > > So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> > > just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
> > > are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
> > >
> > We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
> > see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
> > How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
> >
> > https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
> >
> > I'd not say if if it was not happening.
> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
> That can happen.

To have the equivalent energy refueling, it will have to be a hell of a lot
bigger than a typical gas station. And there you can put 30K gallons of
gas, enough for 2,000 cars, underground. Where are you going to put all
the batteries and what will that cost compared to a gas station?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: rbowman - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:37 UTC

On 05/02/2022 11:24 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
> within a block but still no place for chargers.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7236623,-73.6919494,3a,75y,111.58h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9VacPu6hqObdc5wsXYymcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Plenty of room for chargers but google must have done the street view
when everybody was at the beach.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:41 UTC

On 5/2/2022 7:42 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:30:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 2:06 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside chargers,
>>>>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue, sure, but still
>>>>> an issue.
>>>> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
>>>> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
>>>> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a driveway,
>>>>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row house
>>>>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>>>>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>>>>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
>>>> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in my
>>>> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
>>>> within a block but still no place for chargers.
>>>> Now toss in trying to find
>>>>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call an "issue".
>>>> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
>>>> different than buying gas.
>>>
>>> All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles worth of
>>> gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less than that.
>>> Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling up.
>>>
>>> And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the pumps?
>>> You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so small
>>> you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2 pump
>>> kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the building
>>> and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?
>>>
>>> IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
>>> poke holes in it.
>>>
>>> As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to deal with
>>> facts.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open space" to put
>>>>> in charging lots.
>>>> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
>>>
>>> See above.
>>>
>>>> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many years
>>>> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
>>>>
>>>> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
>>>> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
>>>> work.
>>>
>>> I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting about how
>>> it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not exactly the same
>>> thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every existing station.
>>>
>>>
>> Why not?
>> Amazing how people can spot the negatives and never look at the solution.
>>
>> Unlike a gas station that needs tanks, charging stations can be located
>> in other places. One of my favorite restaurants has one so I can have
>> lunch and come out to a full charged car. Trader mentioned Target. I
>> can shop and come out to a full charged car.
>
> If it's a Tesla supercharger you could. They can give you 200 miles in
> 15 minutes. I doubt the ones at Target are those though,
> I'll check when I'm over there. But even if they are, this quickly leads to
> another problem, those are in the 100KW range. That's twice the total
> capacity of a typical new home. And the typical home never gets anywhere
> near that. So you're going to need a grid that can support that kind of
> power. Start charging dozens of those in a lot and it adds up quick.
>
>
>
If you are going shopping you probably don't need a 15 minute fill so
Level 2 makes sense. 30 to 60 is probably good.

Yes, the grid does need updating but. . . We are building factories,
Amazon warehouses and the like so running wires for a few chargers is
not a big deal.

The grid and power companies are an interesting situation. In my area,
housing is increasing so we need more capacity, we want clean energy, we
want better reliability.

How do we pay for that? Oh, we don't want to pay more. Consumers
always fight rate increases even if it helps them.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<jdbft5F3co2U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 19:47:20 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:47 UTC

On 05/02/2022 11:36 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>> apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>
>> The electric grid can't handle the load. My electric company is
>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so
>> they can cut me off on hot days.
>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>> their cars.
>>
>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>
> Yes, I understand there are laws against ever upgrading the grid. Was
> it in the Constitution?
>
> Stupid people started buying cars before there were gas stations too but
> that seemed to settle down in recent years.

Upgrading the grid means more generation capacity, more transmission
lines, and so forth. No problem until the NIMBY folks come out of the
woodwork. The New England states have serious natural gas problems. The
Pennsylvania and West Virginia Marcellus fields have plenty of gas.
We'll just build a pipeline or two. Yeah, right.

New England also gets screwed by the Jones Act. Cargoes carried between
two US ports have to be on a US registered vessel. afaik there are no US
registered tankers.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 19:49:48 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:49 UTC

On 05/02/2022 01:05 PM, Karen wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 4:52:42 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>> apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>
>> The electric grid can't handle the load. My electric company is
>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so
>> they can cut me off on hot days.
>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>> their cars.
>>
>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>
>
> After the democrat's Great Reset, this is what the bottom 99% will
> drive...if they're lucky. If you dis the government, you'll get a bicycle.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZId54H32dc

Can I get an e-bike?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 19:54:31 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:54 UTC

On 05/02/2022 04:44 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> I live in a rural area and had no idea so many people are houseless. Small towns
> don't have apartments as a general rule. There aren't many people of working age
> who don't have access to a personal vehicle. A farmer could have access to several.

I grew up in a town of about 2000 people. Both my family and the
neighbors rented the upstairs flat and we certainly weren't the only
ones. They're there but they aren't obvious like an apartment complex.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:55 UTC

On 5/2/2022 7:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
>>>> people over to your side.
>>>>
>>> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
>>> shortcoming can be overcome.
>>>>
>>>> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
>>>> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
>>>> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>>>>
>>> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
>>> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
>>> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>>>
>>> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>>>
>>> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
>> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
>> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
>> That can happen.
>
> To have the equivalent energy refueling, it will have to be a hell of a lot
> bigger than a typical gas station. And there you can put 30K gallons of
> gas, enough for 2,000 cars, underground. Where are you going to put all
> the batteries and what will that cost compared to a gas station?

How many do you need? You don't have to store 2000 batteries. The grid
had enough power for millions of cars. A Google search says some
stations see 1100 cars a day.

Lets break this down. How many EV cars will it serve per day in 5
years, 10 years, 15 years? It is not happening overnight.

We can charge a battery in 30 minutes. How many customers per hour at
various times. One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
could have 8 at peak.

Will present gas stations ever serve EVs the number we see of ICE today?
Other options exist. Home chargers, Target stores, restaurants, rest
stops, etc. Compared to putting in a gas station, a charging station is
pretty simple.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: non...@none.invalid (Jim Joyce)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: Jim Joyce - Tue, 3 May 2022 02:10 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 14:30:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>If I said I have a pound of solid gold here and all you have to do is
>pick it up, some would complain they have to pay a bridge toll to come
>get it so would not bother.

Prove it. :-)

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 19:20:16 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Tue, 3 May 2022 02:20 UTC

On 5/2/2022 6:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 7:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
>>>>> people over to your side.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
>>>> shortcoming can be overcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction
>>>>> contains
>>>>> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time
>>>>> try "Once they
>>>>> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>>>>>
>>>> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
>>>> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on
>>>> it.
>>>> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>>>>
>>>> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
>>> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap
>>> for a charged one.
>>> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
>>> That can happen.
>>
>> To have the equivalent energy refueling, it will have to be a hell of
>> a lot
>> bigger than a typical gas station.  And there you can put 30K gallons of
>> gas, enough for 2,000 cars, underground.  Where are you going to put all
>> the batteries and what will that cost compared to a gas station?
>
> How many do you need?  You don't have to store 2000 batteries.  The grid
> had enough power for millions of cars.  A Google search says some
> stations see 1100 cars a day.
>
> Lets break this down.  How many EV cars will it serve per day in 5
> years, 10 years, 15 years?  It is not happening overnight.
>
> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes.  How many customers per hour at
> various times.  One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
> could have 8 at peak.

What is the expected life of a battery charged in 30 minutes? Most
batteries today have a significantly shorter life if frequently high
speed charged.

>
> Will present gas stations ever serve EVs the number we see of ICE today?
>  Other options exist.  Home chargers, Target stores, restaurants, rest
> stops, etc.  Compared to putting in a gas station, a charging station is
> pretty simple.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 23:03:28 -0400
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 03:03 UTC

On 5/2/2022 10:20 PM, Bob F wrote:

>> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes.  How many customers per hour at
>> various times.  One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
>> could have 8 at peak.
>
> What is the expected life of a battery charged in 30 minutes? Most
> batteries today have a significantly shorter life if frequently high
> speed charged.
>
No idea . I do know the battery of today will not be the battery of
tomorrow. There are a couple of better ones coming along. Lithium is a
problem and will be eliminated.

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