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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

SubjectAuthor
* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsdanny burstein
|+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
|  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|   `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsSam E
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
|| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDerby Dad
||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||     `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||| |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|||  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsThomas
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | |||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | ||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |||       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||        +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |||        `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | ||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|| | |  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |    +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |      |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |        `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |         `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |           `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |            +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |            |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |            | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
|| | |            `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |             `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
|| | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
|| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRandy Patzkowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsSteve Mills

Pages:12345
Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<80817hdgi77c5808uf382ga2cfp4ns8rr6@4ax.com>

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From: NONONOmi...@fmguy.com (micky)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Message-ID: <80817hdgi77c5808uf382ga2cfp4ns8rr6@4ax.com>
References: <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com> <jiIbK.163030$Kdf.79905@fx96.iad> <acb51be6-8f40-4de8-9675-8120cbf798ean@googlegroups.com> <8712c2fb-56fe-4af1-9599-c337e630d056n@googlegroups.com> <f0fa44f4-b3c1-4e3e-8022-5bcb09728a57n@googlegroups.com> <_3UbK.671415$mF2.563610@fx11.iad> <tt507hlltjp7vujje8okjl9edbkrhlhp52@4ax.com>
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 by: micky - Tue, 3 May 2022 03:27 UTC

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 02 May 2022 20:48:22 +0300, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>
>>In any case, if there is a need for EV charging in Manhatten, someone
>>will come up with a solution.
>>
>>https://www.axios.com/a-roadway-will-charge-your-ev-while-youre-driving-f2f2ad5b-3735-4948-bc50-b486f076a255.html
>
>That sounds like a perpetual motion machine!!

Oh, not quite I see. Just wireless power transmission.

I predicted that when I was in the 8th grade, in 1960. I had in mind
within the home, for cordless, batteryless appliances, that got their
power from something in the walls. I thought 30 years would be enough.
I had just about concluded that I was wrong.

When cordless charging of cell phones came out, I didn't count that as a
fulfillment, because they are so small, use so little current, have to
be so close to the charger. This otoh, though it's outside, would if
implemented be a fulfillment of my prediction, 62 years later.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<gu1cK.184240$Kdf.8495@fx96.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 03:39 UTC

On 5/2/2022 11:27 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 02 May 2022 20:48:22 +0300, micky
> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> In any case, if there is a need for EV charging in Manhatten, someone
>>> will come up with a solution.
>>>
>>> https://www.axios.com/a-roadway-will-charge-your-ev-while-youre-driving-f2f2ad5b-3735-4948-bc50-b486f076a255.html
>>
>> That sounds like a perpetual motion machine!!
>
> Oh, not quite I see. Just wireless power transmission.
>

A road is being built in Sweden to do the charging. Many benefits if it
becomes practical.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<RN5cK.184255$Kdf.128968@fx96.iad>

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
From: hamil...@devnull.com (Cindy Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
References: <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Cindy Hamilton - Tue, 3 May 2022 08:33 UTC

On 2022-05-02, Dean Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I live in a rural area and had no idea so many people are houseless.

80% of the population lives in urban areas.

> Small towns don't have apartments as a general rule. There aren't
> many people of working age who don't have access to a personal vehicle.
> A farmer could have access to several.

Ann Arbor, MI, is aiming for carbon-neutral by 2030. That will involve a
lot of people relying on public transit, and switching from gas heat to
electric. And, of course, to electric vehicles.

One idea is to have everybody in town live within a 20-minute walk of
some sort of restaurants and shopping.

Ah, he we go. The "plan":

<https://www.a2gov.org/departments/sustainability/Carbon-Neutrality/Pages/Current-Activities.aspx>

It's not a huge metropolis. But 54% of its residents live in rentals
(some of which are converted houses in the student ghetto).

I live just outside the city. Housing prices are too high inside the
city limits.

--
Cindy Hamilton

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<b9b5bf6a-9e77-40c6-b6f2-04230a26917fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:11 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 7:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> >>>> people over to your side.
> >>>>
> >>> I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
> >>> shortcoming can be overcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> >>>> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
> >>>> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
> >>>>
> >>> We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
> >>> see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
> >>> How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
> >>>
> >>> https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
> >>>
> >>> I'd not say if if it was not happening.
> >> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
> >> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
> >> That can happen.
> >
> > To have the equivalent energy refueling, it will have to be a hell of a lot
> > bigger than a typical gas station. And there you can put 30K gallons of
> > gas, enough for 2,000 cars, underground. Where are you going to put all
> > the batteries and what will that cost compared to a gas station?
> How many do you need? You don't have to store 2000 batteries. The grid
> had enough power for millions of cars. A Google search says some
> stations see 1100 cars a day.

OK, use that number then instead of 2000. Figure out the space it's going
to take to hold them at each battery swap location. These aren't D cells,
they are big and heavy.

>
> Lets break this down. How many EV cars will it serve per day in 5
> years, 10 years, 15 years? It is not happening overnight.

Tell that to the EV proponents and most libs, they say it has to and will.

>
> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes. How many customers per hour at
> various times. One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
> could have 8 at peak.

Versus how many cars fully recharged with gas in the same time?
And to rapidly charge these batteries takes enormous power, far more
power than any gas station service has. Tesla super charging is 100KW.
With 8 cars or batteries charging at once, that's 800KW. Your battery swap
facility, how much power is that going to need? It's going to take
major upgrades to the grid and power sources to support that.

>
> Will present gas stations ever serve EVs the number we see of ICE today?
> Other options exist. Home chargers, Target stores, restaurants, rest
> stops, etc. Compared to putting in a gas station, a charging station is
> pretty simple.

I would argue exactly the opposite is true. A gas station is simple and can
be put almost anywhere, it's a self-contained issue. A battery swap facility
or any charging facility that is either going to charge a lot of cars quickly
or charge a much smaller number more slowly, is going to need huge power
and we don't have the infrastructure to support it. If you're going to do this
charging at night or when the sun isn't shining or the wind blowing, that
infrastructure extends from the
charge facility all the way to the new generation sources that we don't have and
that govt and people won't allow to be built, eg nuclear or natural gas. Tesla
super charging, just ten cars is a megawatt. The old nuclear plant that was
closed here a few years back was 600MW. New ones that we aren't building,
I think are more like 1GW, their entire output would support charging 10,000 cars.
There are 275 mil cars in the US. And US nuclear capacity peaked a decade ago.
Nothing like that with a gas station.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:16 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:03:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 10:20 PM, Bob F wrote:
>
> >> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes. How many customers per hour at
> >> various times. One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
> >> could have 8 at peak.
> >
> > What is the expected life of a battery charged in 30 minutes? Most
> > batteries today have a significantly shorter life if frequently high
> > speed charged.
> >
> No idea . I do know the battery of today will not be the battery of
> tomorrow. There are a couple of better ones coming along. Lithium is a
> problem and will be eliminated.

Apparently that isn't a problem, Tesla has super chargers that give
a 200 mile charge in just 15 minutes and are being deployed. As long
as that works, it goes a long way to solving the long trip problem.
It sounds like you could be near empty and get near fully charged in
about 30 mins. Bu there is likely more to the story, eg that it's probably
not linear and the next 100 or 200 mile charge takes much longer.
Or it could be that 200 miles of charge is all that you can do at one
time because of heat generation. But still, being able to get 200 miles
in 15 minutes is a big step forward.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:24 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 4:33:59 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2022-05-02, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I live in a rural area and had no idea so many people are houseless.
> 80% of the population lives in urban areas.
> > Small towns don't have apartments as a general rule. There aren't
> > many people of working age who don't have access to a personal vehicle.
> > A farmer could have access to several.
> Ann Arbor, MI, is aiming for carbon-neutral by 2030. That will involve a
> lot of people relying on public transit, and switching from gas heat to
> electric.

How does the town expect that to happen? I sure don't see it happening by
existing market forces. Especially switching versus just being used for new installs.
You're talking about just seven and a half years. I suspect Ann Arbor is run
by moon beam libs.

And, of course, to electric vehicles.
>
> One idea is to have everybody in town live within a 20-minute walk of
> some sort of restaurants and shopping.

>
> Ah, he we go. The "plan":
>
> <https://www.a2gov.org/departments/sustainability/Carbon-Neutrality/Pages/Current-Activities.aspx>

It's just the usual generic stuff, nothing really big or concrete.

>
> It's not a huge metropolis. But 54% of its residents live in rentals
> (some of which are converted houses in the student ghetto).
>
> I live just outside the city. Housing prices are too high inside the
> city limits.

I suspect they are going to go much higher if they actually try to achieve
their goal.

>
> --
> Cindy Hamilton

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: rbowman - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:47 UTC

On 05/03/2022 02:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> I live just outside the city. Housing prices are too high inside the
> city limits.

Location, location. Last week I was looking for a photo of an old gas
house in Troy NY. There was a Zillow link on the page that I clicked out
of curiosity. You'd have to see them in person but there were some
pretty good looking houses in the $100,000 range. That money around here
would get you a fixer-upper garage.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 3 May 2022 13:51 UTC

trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> writes:
>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > On 5/2/2022 3:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
>> > > people over to your side.
>> > >
>> > I don't have a side. I just see EV is coming in the future and the
>> > shortcoming can be overcome.
>> > >
>> > > So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
>> > > just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try "Once they
>> > > are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>> > >
>> > We'll see what happens. Shell ig putting them in some stations. They
>> > see there is a market for the juice to be sold and want to get in on it.
>> > How is the 7=11 prediction fluff?
>> >
>> > https://www.motortrend.com/news/7-eleven-ev-charging/
>> >
>> > I'd not say if if it was not happening.
>> Standardize the batteries and simply pull up to a station and swap for a charged one.
>> Not possible? What about your gas grill tank? Choice to swap or refill.
>> That can happen.
>
>To have the equivalent energy refueling, it will have to be a hell of a lot
>bigger than a typical gas station. And there you can put 30K gallons of
>gas, enough for 2,000 cars, underground.

1) 2000 cars a day is hardly a "typical gas station". A costco with 20
pumps, perhaps. But not the corner mobil station with two pumps. And
it is apples compared to oranges, as one can charge at home, but one
cannot fillup their gas tank at home.

2) Battery swaps are unlikely in the near future for a number of reasons
including the fact that they are built into the chassis on current EV
vehicles. Chassis swaps (pick up the body and drop it on a new chassis)
may be a more viable option in the future, but:

3) Then there is recharging while driving - such as the experimental roadway
being built in Detroit right now that charges vehicles wirelessly while they are
driving. Expand that to curbside parking spots, parking garage floors, etc.
et alia.

4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
transportation.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: hamil...@devnull.com (Cindy Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: Cindy Hamilton - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:05 UTC

On 2022-05-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On 05/03/2022 02:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> I live just outside the city. Housing prices are too high inside the
>> city limits.
>
> Location, location. Last week I was looking for a photo of an old gas
> house in Troy NY. There was a Zillow link on the page that I clicked out
> of curiosity. You'd have to see them in person but there were some
> pretty good looking houses in the $100,000 range. That money around here
> would get you a fixer-upper garage.

Indeed. Right now the cheapest listing in Ann Arbor appears to be a
2-bed, 1 bath, 661-square-foot house on a crawl (highly undesirable
here in Michigan) for $189,000.

<https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2936-Saint-Aubin-Ave_Ann-Arbor_MI_48108_M34320-22029?ex=2938241372>

Oh, hey. There's a downtown condo for about $1.7 million. 3 bed, 3
bath, 2552 square feet.
--
Cindy Hamilton

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:26 UTC

On 5/3/2022 9:11 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> OK, use that number then instead of 2000. Figure out the space it's going
> to take to hold them at each battery swap location. These aren't D cells,
> they are big and heavy.
>
>
>>
>> Lets break this down. How many EV cars will it serve per day in 5
>> years, 10 years, 15 years? It is not happening overnight.
>
> Tell that to the EV proponents and most libs, they say it has to and will.
>
>>
>> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes. How many customers per hour at
>> various times. One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
>> could have 8 at peak.
>
> Versus how many cars fully recharged with gas in the same time?
> And to rapidly charge these batteries takes enormous power, far more
> power than any gas station service has. Tesla super charging is 100KW.
> With 8 cars or batteries charging at once, that's 800KW. Your battery swap
> facility, how much power is that going to need? It's going to take
> major upgrades to the grid and power sources to support that.

Of course it will. Just like we build refineries and gas stations to
meet demand. It CAN be done. Actually, it must be done as oil becomes
harder to find and more expensive. Todd has some oil working in his
back yard but it won't be ready for another couple of million years.
>
>
>>
>> Will present gas stations ever serve EVs the number we see of ICE today?
>> Other options exist. Home chargers, Target stores, restaurants, rest
>> stops, etc. Compared to putting in a gas station, a charging station is
>> pretty simple.
>
> I would argue exactly the opposite is true. A gas station is simple and can
> be put almost anywhere, it's a self-contained issue. A battery swap facility
> or any charging facility that is either going to charge a lot of cars quickly
> or charge a much smaller number more slowly, is going to need huge power
> and we don't have the infrastructure to support it.

So it looks like the world as we know it is maxed out. We can't build
any more factories, we can't build any more Amazon warehouses, we can't
even build new houses. The grid is maxed out and that's the end.
Sarcasm added for MM

https://energynews.us/2021/03/10/commentary-yes-our-electricity-grid-can-support-an-electric-vehicle-future/

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 14:33 UTC

On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>
> 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
> to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
> transportation.

There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
and solar panels in space.

The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:49 UTC

Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
>On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>
>> 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
>> to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
>> transportation.
>
>There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
>and solar panels in space.

It is going to take a wide range of technologies including generation
and storage. Including nuclear.

>
>The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
>energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.

Actually, it would be quite bad to "harness" all of it. Consider
the TSI (Total Solar Insolation), which is approximately 1367 watts
per square meter. Some significant fraction of that is reflected
back into space (by clouds, for example). The balance between them
keeps the planet habitable.

Were we to use all of it, the planet would get pretty warm, pretty quickly.

Note the role of CO2 with respect to TSI - some of that 1367 watts
per square meter is absorbed by the earth and re-emitted as infrared
radiation back into space. When an IR photon strikes a CO2 molecule
it is reflected, some of it back to the earth. Doubling the fraction
of CO2 in the atmosphere doubles the amount of IR that gets reflected
back to the planet, which leads to global warming.

Taking it to absurdity:

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:26 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 9:11 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >
> > OK, use that number then instead of 2000. Figure out the space it's going
> > to take to hold them at each battery swap location. These aren't D cells,
> > they are big and heavy.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Lets break this down. How many EV cars will it serve per day in 5
> >> years, 10 years, 15 years? It is not happening overnight.
> >
> > Tell that to the EV proponents and most libs, they say it has to and will.
> >
> >>
> >> We can charge a battery in 30 minutes. How many customers per hour at
> >> various times. One station I use often has 0 cars late at night but
> >> could have 8 at peak.
> >
> > Versus how many cars fully recharged with gas in the same time?
> > And to rapidly charge these batteries takes enormous power, far more
> > power than any gas station service has. Tesla super charging is 100KW.
> > With 8 cars or batteries charging at once, that's 800KW. Your battery swap
> > facility, how much power is that going to need? It's going to take
> > major upgrades to the grid and power sources to support that.
> Of course it will. Just like we build refineries and gas stations to
> meet demand. It CAN be done. Actually, it must be done as oil becomes
> harder to find and more expensive. Todd has some oil working in his
> back yard but it won't be ready for another couple of million years.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Will present gas stations ever serve EVs the number we see of ICE today?
> >> Other options exist. Home chargers, Target stores, restaurants, rest
> >> stops, etc. Compared to putting in a gas station, a charging station is
> >> pretty simple.
> >
> > I would argue exactly the opposite is true. A gas station is simple and can
> > be put almost anywhere, it's a self-contained issue. A battery swap facility
> > or any charging facility that is either going to charge a lot of cars quickly
> > or charge a much smaller number more slowly, is going to need huge power
> > and we don't have the infrastructure to support it.
> So it looks like the world as we know it is maxed out. We can't build
> any more factories, we can't build any more Amazon warehouses, we can't
> even build new houses. The grid is maxed out and that's the end.
> Sarcasm added for MM
>
> https://energynews.us/2021/03/10/commentary-yes-our-electricity-grid-can-support-an-electric-vehicle-future/

That's just a fluff piece, but even it says:

"Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found that the national, western grid, and Washington state regions can handle ​electric vehicle fleet sizes of up to 24 million, 9 million, and 1 million, respectively, without requiring any additional power plants. "

If that's true, it's still only 9% of the cars in the USA. That we have excess capacity
in that range isn't surprising or reassuring.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:28 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:33:59 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> >
> > 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
> > to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
> > transportation.
> There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
> and solar panels in space.

Good luck with that, given the cost/benefit ratio.

>
> The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
> energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.

You left out the other part of that, which is that it takes the entire surface
of the earth to collect the above energy.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1llqxkkibyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 03:01:58 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 3 May 2022 17:01 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>> apartments or condos.
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>
>>
>> There are a couple of apartment complexes
>
> BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
> apartment?

That is just one meaning of the word complex.

>> going up a couple of miles
>> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>>
>> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>> narrow streets you can't have them.
>>
>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
>>
>> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
>> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>> add about 20 miles a minute.
>
> I think in Baltimore there are a lot more. The first year I lived in
> my townhouse, my car battery was dead. I'm in the corner and didn't
> have a long enough cord, so I plugged into the guy in the next section,
> who was closest to the car. He was not home, and he was annoyed when he
> got home. What does it cost to charge a battery with a 5-amp charger.
> Maybe 5 cents? Maybe he thought it was more. I don't think he ever
> liked me after that.
>
> That's why I'm importaing Super-good grade-A maximo Greek extension
> cords, the very best kind.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<76584c5d-29ea-4c4e-b05f-203bc20f9aeen@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Tue, 3 May 2022 17:19 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> > <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
> >>> apartments or condos.
> >>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are a couple of apartment complexes
> >
> > BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
> > apartment?
>
> That is just one meaning of the word complex.

Hook, line and sinker...

>
> >> going up a couple of miles
> >> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
> >> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
> >>
> >> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
> >> narrow streets you can't have them.
> >>
> >> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an issue.
> >>
> >> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of 17
> >> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
> >> add about 20 miles a minute.
> >
> > I think in Baltimore there are a lot more. The first year I lived in
> > my townhouse, my car battery was dead. I'm in the corner and didn't
> > have a long enough cord, so I plugged into the guy in the next section,
> > who was closest to the car. He was not home, and he was annoyed when he
> > got home. What does it cost to charge a battery with a 5-amp charger.
> > Maybe 5 cents? Maybe he thought it was more. I don't think he ever
> > liked me after that.
> >
> > That's why I'm importaing Super-good grade-A maximo Greek extension
> > cords, the very best kind.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1llssfh2byq249@pvr2.lan>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 03:42:05 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 3 May 2022 17:42 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 03:19:37 +1000, Marilyn Manson
<comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
>> > <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> >>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> >>> apartments or condos.
>> >>>
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There are a couple of apartment complexes
>> >
>> > BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
>> > apartment?
>>
>> That is just one meaning of the word complex.
>
> Hook, line and sinker...

Yep, you are so fucking stupid that you wouldn't even
notice a dead whale dragged past your stupid snout.

>> >> going up a couple of miles
>> >> from me. I'd think having chargers available would be a good selling
>> >> point. IMO, stupid for a builder not to put in a few.
>> >>
>> >> Living in a lot of big cities they have similar problems. Row houses,
>> >> narrow streets you can't have them.
>> >>
>> >> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an
>> issue.
>> >>
>> >> I just looked and around me there are three locations and a total of
>> 17
>> >> chargers in 7 miles. A level 3 can fill from empty in 30 minutes and
>> >> add about 20 miles a minute.
>> >
>> > I think in Baltimore there are a lot more. The first year I lived in
>> > my townhouse, my car battery was dead. I'm in the corner and didn't
>> > have a long enough cord, so I plugged into the guy in the next
>> section,
>> > who was closest to the car. He was not home, and he was annoyed when
>> he
>> > got home. What does it cost to charge a battery with a 5-amp charger.
>> > Maybe 5 cents? Maybe he thought it was more. I don't think he ever
>> > liked me after that.
>> >
>> > That's why I'm importaing Super-good grade-A maximo Greek extension
>> > cords, the very best kind.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<UyecK.704208$LN2.198044@fx13.iad>

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Tue, 3 May 2022 18:32 UTC

On 5/3/2022 12:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:33:59 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
>>> to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
>>> transportation.
>> There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
>> and solar panels in space.
>
> Good luck with that, given the cost/benefit ratio.
>
>
>>
>> The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
>> energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.
>
> You left out the other part of that, which is that it takes the entire surface
> of the earth to collect the above energy.
>
Huh???? You don't need it all. You need 1/8750 of it
One hour of sun = 1 year of energy use.

Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: derbyda...@gmail.com (Derby Dad)
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 by: Derby Dad - Tue, 3 May 2022 19:16 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:15 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed dribbled
all over himself when he posted a few meaningless words that were
automatically flushed.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Tue, 3 May 2022 19:50 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:15 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 03:19:37 +1000, Marilyn Manson
> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> >> > <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >> >>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
> >> >>> apartments or condos.
> >> >>>
> >> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> There are a couple of apartment complexes
> >> >
> >> > BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about an
> >> > apartment?
> >>
> >> That is just one meaning of the word complex.
> >
> > Hook, line and sinker...
> Yep, you are so fucking stupid that you wouldn't even
> notice a dead whale dragged past your stupid snout.

Sure I would. I just took pictures of a dead whale a few weeks ago in CA.

What was coming out of its mid-section reminds me of what comes out of
your mouth. A bunch of sloppy goo, making a mess wherever it flows. I have
to say, it smelled much better than you do.

https://i.imgur.com/uBGZlYu.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3RkOk7v.jpg

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1ll44lyebyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 08:08:35 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 3 May 2022 22:08 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 05:50:26 +1000, Marilyn Manson
<comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:15 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 03:19:37 +1000, Marilyn Manson
>> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
>> >> > <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> >> >>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>> >> >>> apartments or condos.
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There are a couple of apartment complexes
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about
>> an
>> >> > apartment?
>> >>
>> >> That is just one meaning of the word complex.
>> >
>> > Hook, line and sinker...
>> Yep, you are so fucking stupid that you wouldn't even
>> notice a dead whale dragged past your stupid snout.

> Sure I would.

Nope, you never noticed that one.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Tue, 3 May 2022 23:31 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 6:08:44 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 05:50:26 +1000, Marilyn Manson
> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:42:15 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> On Wed, 04 May 2022 03:19:37 +1000, Marilyn Manson
> >> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:03 +1000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 1 May 2022 23:33:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> >> >> > <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On 5/1/2022 10:50 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >> >> >>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
> >> >> >>> apartments or condos.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> There are a couple of apartment complexes
> >> >> >
> >> >> > BTW, why does everyone say this this way? What is so complex about
> >> an
> >> >> > apartment?
> >> >>
> >> >> That is just one meaning of the word complex.
> >> >
> >> > Hook, line and sinker...
> >> Yep, you are so fucking stupid that you wouldn't even
> >> notice a dead whale dragged past your stupid snout.
>
> > Sure I would.
> Nope, you never noticed that one.

Sure I did. Prove me wrong.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 13:31:46 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 4 May 2022 03:31 UTC

On Tue, 03 May 2022 04:50:00 +1000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:

> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>>> apartments or condos.
>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>>
>>> The electric grid can't handle the load. My electric company is
>>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
>>> can cut me off on hot days.
>>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>>> their cars.
>>>
>>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>>
>> I read it takes about 32 amps to charge an EV probably at 220 volts. It
>> can take up to ten hours to charge a Tesla at home. Guess that means a
>> ten to fifteen percent increase in current home service. One hell of a
>> strain on electric infrastructure.
>
> Actually, you should read up on the home chargers, which are quite
> intelligent,
> and will cut back on draw when other appliances (e.g. an electric oven,
> dryer)
> are operating.

Few home chargers can do that.

> Note also that most home services are at least 100A.
>
> Note also that the average US home household consumes 30 KWh
> per day, or slight over 1000 watts (call it 10 amps) average per hour.

> Note also that in areas where rooftop solar is common (or mandated for
> new construction)

Very few places where that is mandated for new construction.

> the solar production will offset any requirements
> from the grid.
>
> 100A home service will be more than sufficient to support 220v EV
> charger.
>
>
>> being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and
>> technology.
>
> Something you seem to have trouble with.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1lmkhjbyc5duzs@pvr2.lan>

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 13:40:21 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 03:40 UTC

Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:30:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/2/2022 2:06 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> On 5/2/2022 10:16 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Once there is a proliferation of Level 3 chargers, it won't be an
>> issue.
>> >>>
>> >>> Define "proliferation". Unless there are multitudes of curbside
>> chargers,
>> >>> like parking meters, it'll still be an issue. A smaller issue,
>> sure, but still
>> >>> an issue.
>> >> Let's say getting close to gas pumps. You don't have to charge every
>> >> night but it will take longer than a tank of gas. That is why I said
>> >> level 3. Ten minutes can give you 200 miles.
>> >>>
>> >>> Don't take that as me being against EV's. I live in a house with a
>> driveway,
>> >>> so I wouldn't have much of a problem. However, I grew up in a row
>> house
>> >>> in NYC, across the street from a major college. Parking was always a
>> >>> problem. Sometimes we had to drive around for 30+ minutes trying to
>> >>> find a spot within 3 or 4 blocks of our house.
>> >> I lived in Philadelphia. At my last house no problem but I lived in
>> my
>> >> grandmother's house for a few years. Most nights I could find a spot
>> >> within a block but still no place for chargers.
>> >> Now toss in trying to find
>> >>> a *charging* spot, while running low on power. That's what I call
>> an "issue".
>> >> Today, yes. once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
>> >> different than buying gas.
>> >
>> > All else being equal, it doesn't take me 10 minutes to get 200 miles
>> worth of
>> > gas once the fuel is flowing into my vehicle. I can get 400+ in less
>> than that.
>> > Longer "charge times" mean longer "wait times" that just keep piling
>> up.
>> >
>> > And how will they be in "every gas station"? Will they replace the
>> pumps?
>> > You live in Philly, so you must be familiar with stations that are so
>> small
>> > you can't get in or out until somebody else is done. You know, the 2
>> pump
>> > kind with barely room to fit the cars between the pumps and the
>> building
>> > and the pumps and the sidewalk. Where will the charging stations go?
>> >
>> > IOW...don't exaggerate. It makes the argument weaker when it's easy to
>> > poke holes in it.
>> >
>> > As I've said, I'm not against EV's but I also know that we need to
>> deal with
>> > facts.
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> And in places like NYC (just as an example) there is no "open
>> space" to put
>> >>> in charging lots.
>> >> How do they fill up with gas? Chargers will be in the same places.
>> >
>> > See above.
>> >
>> >> Certainly won't be solved overnight but it is in the works. Many
>> years
>> >> ago it was quite the adventure to take a long trip in a gas car too.
>> >>
>> >> There are about 110,000 charging ports in the US. Back in the 1920s
>> >> there were 15,000 gas stations. Now over 150,000 Supply and demand at
>> >> work.
>> >
>> > I know. I remind people of that all the time when they start ranting
>> about how
>> > it will never work. Still, charging an EV and getting gas are not
>> exactly the same
>> > thing. You can't just bolt on the charging infrastructure to every
>> existing station.
>> >
>> >
>> Why not?
>> Amazing how people can spot the negatives and never look at the
>> solution.
>
> Good grief. It's not "spotting negatives" when I point out an actual
> issue with
> what you say. Down below you seem to agree with my point that chargers
> won't be in "every gas station" and also that it will take longer to
> charge.
>
> Do you expect me to simply jump on board and agree with everything
> you say -"once they are in every gas station, 7-11, it won't be any
> different
> than buying gas.", etc.? As I said before, exaggeration is not how anyone
> is going to win over someone who truly believes that EV's will never
> work.
> And as I've said before *That's not me*. I believe that they can be a
> viable
> alternative for some people

Yes.

> and a huge help with our growing environmental
> issues.

Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.

Might be viable with nuke power generation and a massive
grid upgrade but unlikely for the longer distance trips.

> However, I'm not going to parrot your "happy, happy, everything will
> fine, just you wait" exaggerations.
>
> Bring it down a notch and you'll have a much better chance of bringing
> people over to your side.

Hardly anyone ever changes their mind after a usenet discussion.

>> Unlike a gas station that needs tanks, charging stations can be located
>> in other places. One of my favorite restaurants has one so I can have
>> lunch and come out to a full charged car. Trader mentioned Target. I
>> can shop and come out to a full charged car.
>
> I never argued with that. Great idea. More places should have them.

Can't see it myself. Yes, and EV can be viable when charged
overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.

> What I said was: "If I still lived there and my only option for charging
> was going to a shopping plaza hoping to find an open charging spot,
> that would certainly be an issue for me."

Yeah, fuck that. Home charging would be viable but
even if all condos had that at all parking spots that
would need a massive upgrade to the grid connection
at the condo.

>> Yes, it does take longer that pumping gas. It would be good for
>> business at the coffee shop to have one for customer use too.
>>
>> I lived in Philly for 35 years. Yes some stations are small, others are
>> just a spacious and anywhere in the world and could fit a charger or
>> two.
>
> So do you agree that your "every gas station, 7-11" prediction contains
> just a bit of fluff? That was, and still is, my point. Next time try
> "Once they
> are more readily available" and you won't hear a peep out of me.
>
>>
>> If I said I have a pound of solid gold here and all you have to do is
>> pick it up, some would complain they have to pay a bridge toll to come
>> get it so would not bother.
>
> ...and that would be a stupid decision. However, if you added that it
> would
> cost me absolutely nothing to come and get it, I would point out that
> that
> is not exactly true. However, I would pay the toll (and gas/charge) to
> retrieve
> my bounty. Do you see the difference?

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Wed, 4 May 2022 03:55 UTC

On 5/3/2022 11:40 PM, Jock wrote:
> Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> and a huge help with our growing environmental
>> issues.
>
> Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.

New batteries will not have lithium. There are other technologies in
the works.

>
> Can't see it myself. Yes, and EV can be viable when charged
> overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
> the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.

You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.
Dinner is usually about an hour.

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