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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

SubjectAuthor
* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsdanny burstein
|+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
|  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|   `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsCindy Hamilton
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsSam E
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
|| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDerby Dad
||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||     `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||| |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|||  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsThomas
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | |||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsBob F
|| | ||| ||`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| || `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | ||| |  `- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | ||| `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||   +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |||     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |||      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |||       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |||        +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |||        `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | ||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
|| | |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | | `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |  +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|| | |  `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |   `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |    +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |    `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |     `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |      |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |      `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
|| | |       `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |        `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |         `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |          +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |          |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |          `* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |           `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | |            +* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | |            |`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |            | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsDean Hoffman
|| | |            `* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|| | |             `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
|| | +* Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| | |`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
|| | +- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJim Joyce
|| | `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
|| +- Not Enough Outlets for EVstrader_4
|| `- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsJock
+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsMarilyn Manson
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsRandy Patzkowski
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsEd Pawlowski
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsmicky
||+- Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsrbowman
|+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsScott Lurndal
|||+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsFrank
||||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsRod Speed
||`- Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
|`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsKaren
+* Not Enough Outlets for EVsT
`* Not Enough Outlets for EVsSteve Mills

Pages:12345
Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<jdef88FkkcrU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:54:36 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Wed, 4 May 2022 04:54 UTC

On 05/03/2022 09:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.
> Dinner is usually about an hour.

Not with Jimmy John's Freaky Fast service...

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1lmn0utbc5duzs@pvr2.lan>

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 14:56:44 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 04:56 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:55:17 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

> On 5/3/2022 11:40 PM, Jock wrote:
>> Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> and a huge help with our growing environmental
>>> issues.

>> Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.

> New batteries will not have lithium.

We'll see...

> There are other technologies in the works.

They have been claiming that for decades now.

>> Can't see it myself. Yes, an EV can be viable when charged
>> overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
>> the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.

> You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.

Pity that fucks the very expensive battery.

> Dinner is usually about an hour.

But how many do that often enough to matter ?

You still need the home charging for the other trips.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4taii$v4e$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 00:38:58 -0700
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 by: T - Wed, 4 May 2022 07:38 UTC

On 5/2/22 15:48, Frank wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 2:50 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>> On 5/2/2022 4:52 PM, Randy Patzkowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/1/2022 10:50:34 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> This article says roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population lives in
>>>>> apartments or condos.
>>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-hybrids/extraordinarily-frustrated-renters-can-find-no-place-to-plug-in-electric-vehicles/ar-AAWLWzy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b7e62f4b5d8646a5b7131c4b06aca0ce>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yah and that's only the beginning of problems.
>>>>
>>>> The electric grid can't handle the load.  My electric company is
>>>> constantly nagging me to install demand metering on my AC units so they
>>>> can cut me off on hot days.
>>>> The problem will only get worse as all the libtards start plugging in
>>>> their cars.
>>>>
>>>> This will be yet another grand failure of the senile cabbage head and
>>>> transportation secretary Peter Buttplug.
>>>
>>> I read it takes about 32 amps to charge an EV probably at 220 volts.  It
>>> can take up to ten hours to charge a Tesla at home.  Guess that means a
>>> ten to fifteen percent increase in current home service.  One hell of a
>>> strain on electric infrastructure.
>>
>> Actually, you should read up on the home chargers, which are quite
>> intelligent,
>> and will cut back on draw when other appliances (e.g. an electric
>> oven, dryer)
>> are operating.
>>
>> Note also that most home services are at least 100A.
>>
>> Note also that the average  US home household consumes 30 KWh
>> per day, or slight over 1000 watts (call it 10 amps) average per hour.
>>
>> Note also that in areas where rooftop solar is common (or mandated for
>> new construction) the solar production will offset any requirements
>> from the grid.
>>
>> 100A home service will be more than sufficient to support 220v EV
>> charger.
>>
>>
>>> being mandated by politicians that do not understand science and
>>> technology.
>>
>> Something you seem to have trouble with.
>
> Doesn't any rational person?

You are butting up against Lysenkoism.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:04 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/3/2022 12:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:33:59 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
> >>> to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
> >>> transportation.
> >> There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
> >> and solar panels in space.
> >
> > Good luck with that, given the cost/benefit ratio.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
> >> energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.
> >
> > You left out the other part of that, which is that it takes the entire surface
> > of the earth to collect the above energy.
> >
> Huh???? You don't need it all. You need 1/8750 of it
> One hour of sun = 1 year of energy use.
>
> Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.

I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I just
pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would
require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of the earth
is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:09 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 12:56:55 AM UTC-4, Jock wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:55:17 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
> > On 5/3/2022 11:40 PM, Jock wrote:
> >> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> and a huge help with our growing environmental
> >>> issues.
>
> >> Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.
>
> > New batteries will not have lithium.
> We'll see...
> > There are other technologies in the works.
> They have been claiming that for decades now.
>
> >> Can't see it myself. Yes, an EV can be viable when charged
> >> overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
> >> the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.
>
> > You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.
> Pity that fucks the very expensive battery.

Tesla disagrees. They have super chargers deployed that add 200 miles
in just 15 mins. This isn't pie in the sky either, it's deployed now. Tesla
knows the technology and they warranty the batteries.

> > Dinner is usually about an hour.
> But how many do that often enough to matter ?

Ridiculous. Obviously people leave cars parked in all kinds of
places like that for an hour or more.

>
> You still need the home charging for the other trips.

No one here said otherwise.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4u2pl$mvi$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 10:32:20 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:32 UTC

On 5/4/2022 10:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/3/2022 12:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 10:33:59 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/3/2022 9:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Clearly the electrical grid needs to be augmented with new sources of generation
>>>>> to support the transition from fossil fueled transportation to electrical
>>>>> transportation.
>>>> There are ideas being considered to have huge islands of solar panels
>>>> and solar panels in space.
>>>
>>> Good luck with that, given the cost/benefit ratio.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The sun radiates enough energy to earth in one hour to meet all of our
>>>> energy needs for a year. We have to figure out how to harness it.
>>>
>>> You left out the other part of that, which is that it takes the entire surface
>>> of the earth to collect the above energy.
>>>
>> Huh???? You don't need it all. You need 1/8750 of it
>> One hour of sun = 1 year of energy use.
>>
>> Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.
>
> I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I just
> pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would
> require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of the earth
> is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.

Farmers complained about solar panels here:

https://baytobaynews.com/stories/kents-levy-court-opts-against-placing-a-moratorium-on-solar,61472

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<mnwcK.708531$LN2.20307@fx13.iad>

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:48 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 5/4/2022 10:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>> Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.
>>
>> I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I just
>> pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would
>> require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of the earth
>> is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.
>
>Farmers complained about solar panels here:
>
>https://baytobaynews.com/stories/kents-levy-court-opts-against-placing-a-moratorium-on-solar,61472

What farmer complained in the article you cite (other than the pictured
truck)? The article is just another example of planning board nimbyism, and
the board vote was only one vote from a draw.

Other farmers have embraced solar panels - they're great for growing
crops that require partial shade (grow the crops under and between the panels)
and they make the panels more efficient and use less water for the crops. Win-win.

https://www.wired.com/story/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-now-theres-a-bright-idea/
https://interestingengineering.com/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-could-substantially-boost-energy-production

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 01:29:28 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 15:29 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 00:09:20 +1000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 12:56:55 AM UTC-4, Jock wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:55:17 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> > On 5/3/2022 11:40 PM, Jock wrote:
>> >> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> and a huge help with our growing environmental
>> >>> issues.
>>
>> >> Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.
>>
>> > New batteries will not have lithium.
>> We'll see...
>> > There are other technologies in the works.
>> They have been claiming that for decades now.
>>
>> >> Can't see it myself. Yes, an EV can be viable when charged
>> >> overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
>> >> the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.
>>
>> > You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.
>> Pity that fucks the very expensive battery.
>
> Tesla disagrees. They have super chargers deployed that add 200 miles
> in just 15 mins.

But don't allow you to use that all the time or even most of the time.

> This isn't pie in the sky either, it's deployed now. Tesla
> knows the technology and they warranty the batteries.

See above.

>> > Dinner is usually about an hour.
>> But how many do that often enough to matter ?
>
> Ridiculous. Obviously people leave cars parked in all kinds of
> places like that for an hour or more.

Only really with gyms, doctors, hospitals, fancy restaurants etc.

But it is less clear how often most do with other than gyms.

>> You still need the home charging for the other trips.
>
> No one here said otherwise.

Plenty did with condos etc.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 01:32:25 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 15:32 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 00:48:50 +1000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:

> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/4/2022 10:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>>> Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.
>>>
>>> I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I
>>> just
>>> pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would
>>> require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of
>>> the earth
>>> is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.
>>
>> Farmers complained about solar panels here:
>>
>> https://baytobaynews.com/stories/kents-levy-court-opts-against-placing-a-moratorium-on-solar,61472
>
> What farmer complained in the article you cite (other than the pictured
> truck)? The article is just another example of planning board nimbyism,
> and
> the board vote was only one vote from a draw.
>
> Other farmers have embraced solar panels - they're great for growing
> crops that require partial shade

But fuck all crops do.

> (grow the crops under and between the panels)

Fucks up the harvesting unless its some unusual crop still done by hand.

> and they make the panels more efficient and use less water for the
> crops. Win-win.

Hardly ever.

> https://www.wired.com/story/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-now-theres-a-bright-idea/
> https://interestingengineering.com/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-could-substantially-boost-energy-production

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 11:37:48 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 4 May 2022 15:37 UTC

On 5/4/2022 10:48 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/4/2022 10:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>>> Of course with nukes and wind you don't need all of that either.
>>>
>>> I didn't say or imply that you need all of the energy you cited. I just
>>> pointed out that the impressive amount of sun energy you cited would
>>> require the entire surface of the earth to collect. The surface of the earth
>>> is 200 mil square miles and most of that is water.
>>
>> Farmers complained about solar panels here:
>>
>> https://baytobaynews.com/stories/kents-levy-court-opts-against-placing-a-moratorium-on-solar,61472
>
> What farmer complained in the article you cite (other than the pictured
> truck)? The article is just another example of planning board nimbyism, and
> the board vote was only one vote from a draw.
>
> Other farmers have embraced solar panels - they're great for growing
> crops that require partial shade (grow the crops under and between the panels)
> and they make the panels more efficient and use less water for the crops. Win-win.
>
> https://www.wired.com/story/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-now-theres-a-bright-idea/
> https://interestingengineering.com/growing-crops-under-solar-panels-could-substantially-boost-energy-production

I wanted to cite the local paper but it is only available to
subscribers. Up front it said: "While most farmers favor community
solar as an option for making extra income, most oppose the larger
utility-scale facilities, she said."

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4uaj7$r8q$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:45:25 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:45 UTC

On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 12:56:55 AM UTC-4, Jock wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:55:17 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/3/2022 11:40 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and a huge help with our growing environmental
>>>>> issues.
>>
>>>> Unlikely given the need for Lithium for them.
>>
>>> New batteries will not have lithium.
>> We'll see...
>>> There are other technologies in the works.
>> They have been claiming that for decades now.
>>
>>>> Can't see it myself. Yes, an EV can be viable when charged
>>>> overnight at home but you don't get enough miles added to
>>>> the range with the usual shopping or restaurant stop.
>>
>>> You must eat fast. Level 3 chargers will fill most in 30 minutes.
>> Pity that fucks the very expensive battery.
>
> Tesla disagrees. They have super chargers deployed that add 200 miles
> in just 15 mins. This isn't pie in the sky either, it's deployed now. Tesla
> knows the technology and they warranty the batteries.
>
>
>
>>> Dinner is usually about an hour.
>> But how many do that often enough to matter ?
>
> Ridiculous. Obviously people leave cars parked in all kinds of
> places like that for an hour or more.
>
>>
>> You still need the home charging for the other trips.
>
> No one here said otherwise.

Just saw this:

https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM

Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
attached garage let alone charge it there.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<sfycK.3443$tTq1.2821@fx34.iad>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
References: <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com> <acb51be6-8f40-4de8-9675-8120cbf798ean@googlegroups.com> <qtUbK.1375$r5xa.1177@fx37.iad> <ea2abbf4-60ea-4262-8695-428447ffa223n@googlegroups.com> <4rVbK.1048$uNl1.257@fx45.iad> <93600ccd-bdc6-4c50-a396-7728ba812f83n@googlegroups.com> <op.1lmkhjbyc5duzs@pvr2.lan> <GOmcK.695296$mF2.158293@fx11.iad> <op.1lmn0utbc5duzs@pvr2.lan> <b96faad4-4563-4cf6-8e5f-e1168b727e61n@googlegroups.com> <t4uaj7$r8q$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:56 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

>
>https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>
>Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
>car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
>attached garage let alone charge it there.

Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4udin$m5b$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 13:36:21 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:36 UTC

On 5/4/2022 12:56 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>
>> Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
>> car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>
> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.

Of course but gasoline needs oxygen and an ignition source.

In the battery all the energy is concentrated therein.

Much more potentially hazardous.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<op.1lnm7wmnc5duzs@pvr2.lan>

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 03:36:58 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:36 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:

> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>
>> Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
>> car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>
> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.

Far fewer which can burn your house down.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4udu8$niu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 13:42:32 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:42 UTC

On 5/4/2022 1:36 PM, Jock wrote:
> On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>>
>>>
>>> Little battery in watch can burn you.  Just imagine what happens with
>>> car battery malfunction.  I would not want to have one parked in
>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>>
>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
>
> Far fewer which can burn your house down.

Could have also mentioned this:

https://abc7chicago.com/chevy-bolt-fires-recall-ev-battery/10889104/

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/29/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-but-hard-to-fight-heres-why.html

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<F8zcK.493$6iMa.472@fx39.iad>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:57 UTC

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 5/4/2022 12:56 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>>
>>> Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
>>> car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>>
>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
>
>Of course but gasoline needs oxygen and an ignition source.
>
>In the battery all the energy is concentrated therein.
>
>Much more potentially hazardous.

But much less likely to actually _be_ hazardous. One swallow doesn't
make a summer.

"A total of 430 2020 Ford F-150 pickup trucks are being
recalled due to a fire hazard. The issue was caused during
manufacturing when the nut that fastens the positive battery
cable to the starter motor may have been improperly attached."

"Ford has announced it is recalling just over 874,000 F-Series
pickup trucks due to a risk of fire in models equipped with a
block heater. The recall affects models in the United States
and in Canada, and concerns 2015-to-2019 F-150 models as well
as 2017-to-2019 F-250, F-350, F-450 and F-550 models."

"Nov 13, 2020 - Ford recalls 28,000 SUVs and sedans for fire, rollaway risks."

You've provided no evidence that EV batteries are less safe in
a garage than gasoline vehicles.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<fezcK.1126$D0N.865@fx47.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Wed, 4 May 2022 18:03 UTC

On 5/4/2022 1:42 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 5/4/2022 1:36 PM, Jock wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal
>> <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Little battery in watch can burn you.  Just imagine what happens with
>>>> car battery malfunction.  I would not want to have one parked in
>>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>>>
>>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
>>
>> Far fewer which can burn your house down.
>
> Could have also mentioned this:
>
> https://abc7chicago.com/chevy-bolt-fires-recall-ev-battery/10889104/
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/29/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-but-hard-to-fight-heres-why.html
>

Good call. ICE cars are perfectly safe. Oh, wait, look at this

https://www.autosafety.org/bmw-recalls-1-million-vehicles-fire-risk/

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/gm-recall-risk-of-fire/61360/

https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/recall-alert-hyundai-kia-recall-485k-vehicles-due-fire-hazard/ZCUXCDDPBBFSVDF7AEZABT2TJI/

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4uilp$6bf$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 12:03:20 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Wed, 4 May 2022 19:03 UTC

On 5/4/22 11:03, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/4/2022 1:42 PM, Frank wrote:
>> On 5/4/2022 1:36 PM, Jock wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal
>>> <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Little battery in watch can burn you.  Just imagine what happens with
>>>>> car battery malfunction.  I would not want to have one parked in
>>>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
>>>
>>> Far fewer which can burn your house down.
>>
>> Could have also mentioned this:
>>
>> https://abc7chicago.com/chevy-bolt-fires-recall-ev-battery/10889104/
>>
>> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/29/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-but-hard-to-fight-heres-why.html
>>
>
>
> Good call.  ICE cars are perfectly safe.  Oh, wait, look at this
>
> https://www.autosafety.org/bmw-recalls-1-million-vehicles-fire-risk/
>
> https://www.auto123.com/en/news/gm-recall-risk-of-fire/61360/
>
>
> https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/recall-alert-hyundai-kia-recall-485k-vehicles-due-fire-hazard/ZCUXCDDPBBFSVDF7AEZABT2TJI/
>
Hi Ed,
Somewhere I read, but can not find it again, that
residential indoor charging of EV's in Germany
is illegal.
I do not think I would be comfortable charging a coal
powered car in my garage without a fire suppression
system.
I think the ultimate solution will be hydrogen, but
the cost of the fuel is still too high. And leave oil
to all the plastics and other products they make out
of it.
I think you have mentioned it before, but the
battery thing could wind up biting us all in the
ass with all the pollution problems associated with
its production and recycling issues. Not to mention
turning the world into a one YUGE open pit mine
trying to produce all the necessary lithium and all
the air pollution from all the oil fueled equipment
to move 500,000 lbs of dirt to produce one 1,000 lb
battery per car.
On the other hard, Elon does produce some awesome
cars, if you can afford them and can deal with
the charging issues.
I wonder if Subi will even produce a hydrogen car?
-T

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<pbAcK.696385$mF2.619983@fx11.iad>

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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References: <bb0f7e2a-5cfc-4126-84e5-a22c6a1a9af1n@googlegroups.com> <4rVbK.1048$uNl1.257@fx45.iad> <93600ccd-bdc6-4c50-a396-7728ba812f83n@googlegroups.com> <op.1lmkhjbyc5duzs@pvr2.lan> <GOmcK.695296$mF2.158293@fx11.iad> <op.1lmn0utbc5duzs@pvr2.lan> <b96faad4-4563-4cf6-8e5f-e1168b727e61n@googlegroups.com> <t4uaj7$r8q$1@dont-email.me> <sfycK.3443$tTq1.2821@fx34.iad> <op.1lnm7wmnc5duzs@pvr2.lan> <t4udu8$niu$1@dont-email.me> <fezcK.1126$D0N.865@fx47.iad> <t4uilp$6bf$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 4 May 2022 19:09 UTC

T <T@invalid.invalid> writes:
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Wow, T, "you heard indoor EV charging is banned in Germany". You really
gotta stop getting your information from infowars. And if you can't find
a cite that supports your assertion, don't make the assertion because it
makes you look (even more) like an ass.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<tdBcK.2065$lWNd.1956@fx99.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Wed, 4 May 2022 20:19 UTC

On 5/4/2022 3:03 PM, T wrote:

> Hi Ed,
>
> Somewhere I read, but can not find it again, that
> residential indoor charging of EV's in Germany
> is illegal.
>
> I do not think I would be comfortable charging a coal
> powered car in my garage without a fire suppression
> system.
I don't want coal in my garage either. I'd use electric from gas or solar.

Only thing I could find it seems to be encouraging solar chargers
https://www.pv-magazine.com/magazine-archive/overview-of-home-charging-stations-in-germany/

> I think the ultimate solution will be hydrogen, but
> the cost of the fuel is still too high.  And leave oil
> to all the plastics and other products they make out
> of it.

Hyundai was working on fuel cells but seems like slow going.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t4ustf$hro$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 14:58:05 -0700
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 by: T - Wed, 4 May 2022 21:58 UTC

On 5/4/22 13:19, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Only thing I could find it seems to be encouraging solar chargers
> https://www.pv-magazine.com/magazine-archive/overview-of-home-charging-stations-in-germany/
>
That has got to take up a ton of real estate! Or
a really big roof!

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Thu, 5 May 2022 13:50 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 3:03:27 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 5/4/22 11:03, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 5/4/2022 1:42 PM, Frank wrote:
> >> On 5/4/2022 1:36 PM, Jock wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal
> >>> <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
> >>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
> >>>>> car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
> >>>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
> >>>
> >>> Far fewer which can burn your house down.
> >>
> >> Could have also mentioned this:
> >>
> >> https://abc7chicago.com/chevy-bolt-fires-recall-ev-battery/10889104/
> >>
> >> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/29/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-but-hard-to-fight-heres-why.html
> >>
> >
> >
> > Good call. ICE cars are perfectly safe. Oh, wait, look at this
> >
> > https://www.autosafety.org/bmw-recalls-1-million-vehicles-fire-risk/
> >
> > https://www.auto123.com/en/news/gm-recall-risk-of-fire/61360/
> >
> >
> > https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/recall-alert-hyundai-kia-recall-485k-vehicles-due-fire-hazard/ZCUXCDDPBBFSVDF7AEZABT2TJI/
> >
> Hi Ed,
>
> Somewhere I read, but can not find it again, that
> residential indoor charging of EV's in Germany
> is illegal.
>
> I do not think I would be comfortable charging a coal
> powered car in my garage without a fire suppression
> system.
>
> I think the ultimate solution will be hydrogen, but
> the cost of the fuel is still too high. And leave oil
> to all the plastics and other products they make out
> of it.

And no similar issues there right? Like having a 10,000 PSI tank of
hydrogen gas in your car, in your garage. Or liquified hydrogen.
That's the real problem with hydrogen, storing it and generating it,
which would require either a tremendous amount of solar or
nuclear, etc.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 07:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:02 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 3:09:16 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> T <T...@invalid.invalid> writes:
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>
> Wow, T, "you heard indoor EV charging is banned in Germany". You really
> gotta stop getting your information from infowars. And if you can't find
> a cite that supports your assertion, don't make the assertion because it
> makes you look (even more) like an ass.

It's like I've said before. Mr. T only looks for whatever agrees with his already
formed conclusions. And then he eagerly accepts and spreads it, without regard
to the source or even if there is a source. We see this in everything, from stolen
election BS to anti-vax BS. Rudy or Mr. Pillowhead says the election was stolen,
that makes it so. Sixty court cases, all lost, laughed out of court or withdrawn,
because they had no evidence or no case or usually both, well, just ignore that.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<t50nlb$303$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=24385&group=alt.home.repair#24385

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 10:40:42 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Frank - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:40 UTC

On 5/5/2022 9:50 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 3:03:27 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 5/4/22 11:03, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/4/2022 1:42 PM, Frank wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/2022 1:36 PM, Jock wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:56:56 +1000, Scott Lurndal
>>>>> <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>>>>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/smartwatch/fitbit-recalls-ionic-smartwatches-due-to-burn-hazard-a1122765473/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_FB&fbclid=IwAR1eg7aSyfkLE04mPefIfjZIrM8KTjOVlzR0Zdx4eEDvLPRGj0Ntn0R1-KM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Little battery in watch can burn you. Just imagine what happens with
>>>>>>> car battery malfunction. I would not want to have one parked in
>>>>>>> attached garage let alone charge it there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Far fewer which can burn your house down.
>>>>
>>>> Could have also mentioned this:
>>>>
>>>> https://abc7chicago.com/chevy-bolt-fires-recall-ev-battery/10889104/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/29/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-but-hard-to-fight-heres-why.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good call. ICE cars are perfectly safe. Oh, wait, look at this
>>>
>>> https://www.autosafety.org/bmw-recalls-1-million-vehicles-fire-risk/
>>>
>>> https://www.auto123.com/en/news/gm-recall-risk-of-fire/61360/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/recall-alert-hyundai-kia-recall-485k-vehicles-due-fire-hazard/ZCUXCDDPBBFSVDF7AEZABT2TJI/
>>>
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> Somewhere I read, but can not find it again, that
>> residential indoor charging of EV's in Germany
>> is illegal.
>>
>> I do not think I would be comfortable charging a coal
>> powered car in my garage without a fire suppression
>> system.
>>
>> I think the ultimate solution will be hydrogen, but
>> the cost of the fuel is still too high. And leave oil
>> to all the plastics and other products they make out
>> of it.
>
> And no similar issues there right? Like having a 10,000 PSI tank of
> hydrogen gas in your car, in your garage. Or liquified hydrogen.
> That's the real problem with hydrogen, storing it and generating it,
> which would require either a tremendous amount of solar or
> nuclear, etc.
>
>
>

You cannot liquify hydrogen at the consumer level and high pressure
tanks required.

I previously mentioned Nobel Prize winning chemist, George Olah's,
suggestion that methanol be used in fuel cells.

You could use other liquifiable hydrocarbons. Greenies do not like this
as you still emit carbon dioxide. You can recycle carbon dioxide by
hydrogenation.

Here in DE we have carbon limits but our government has decreed natural
gas is exempt and supported (and public got hosed on) funding fuel cell
generated electricity from natural gas.

Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs

<RmScK.7671$gc62.7383@fx45.iad>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=24386&group=alt.home.repair#24386

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Subject: Re: Not Enough Outlets for EVs
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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Thu, 5 May 2022 15:50 UTC

On 5/5/2022 10:40 AM, Frank wrote:

>
> I previously mentioned Nobel Prize winning chemist, George Olah's,
> suggestion that methanol be used in fuel cells.
>
> You could use other liquifiable hydrocarbons.  Greenies do not like this
> as you still emit carbon dioxide.  You can recycle carbon dioxide by
> hydrogenation.
>
> Here in DE we have carbon limits but our government has decreed natural
> gas is exempt and supported (and public got hosed on) funding fuel cell
> generated electricity from natural gas.

Makes sense if the methanol can be made in the needed quantities without
harming something else. The use of ethanol in gas has conflicting
results.

Should at least be seriously investigated. We really do have to get off
of oil at some point.

Methanol can even be made from human waste. Maybe a potty seat in the
garage can fuel your car.

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