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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Modems?

SubjectAuthor
* Modems?Dean Hoffman
+* Modems?hubops
|`- Modems?Retired at Home
+* Modems?Ed Pawlowski
|+* Modems?Marilyn Manson
||+* Modems?Ed Pawlowski
|||+* Modems?Bob F
||||+- Modems?Snag
||||`- Modems?Jim Joyce
|||+- Modems?Marilyn Manson
|||`* Modems?Jim Joyce
||| +- Modems?trader_4
||| `- Modems?Bud Frede
||`- Modems?Bud Frede
|`* Modems?trader_4
| `- Modems?Ed Pawlowski
`- Modems?Frank

1
Modems?

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Subject: Modems?
From: deanh6...@gmail.com (Dean Hoffman)
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 by: Dean Hoffman - Sat, 14 May 2022 13:48 UTC

I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?

Re: Modems?

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Subject: Re: Modems?
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 by: hub...@ccanoemail.com - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:20 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 06:48:16 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
<deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:

>I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?

Dunno.
I'm still using the very first router that Ma Bell provided -
- when I tried high speed cellular internet over 15 years ago.
NetGear - it's served well through a couple different internet
providers since then.
John T.

Re: Modems?

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:27 UTC

On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?

The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
Make sense to me.

Re: Modems?

<t5oeeo$t12$1@dont-email.me>

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From: "fran...@frank.net (Frank)
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Subject: Re: Modems?
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:30:46 -0400
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 by: Frank - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:30 UTC

On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?

Never heard of rating a modem like that. I read that there are
different types of modems for cable, DSL, Fiber and dial-up. For cable
DOCSIS 3.1 is best. Think mine is a DOCSIS 3.0 supplied by Comcast with
modem, router and phone connection built in. I get good reception
throughout the house and even outside but fastest are Ethernet
connections. Modem and router placement are important. When I got a
smart TV for my den reception was crappy until I remove a metal filing
cabinet that was next to it.

Re: Modems?

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 by: Retired ...@nowhere - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:48 UTC

Modems are rated by furlongs per fortnight ;-)

WiFi enabled routers should be rated by circular feet (aka radius)

On 5/14/22 10:20 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 06:48:16 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
> <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>
> Dunno.
> I'm still using the very first router that Ma Bell provided -
> - when I tried high speed cellular internet over 15 years ago.
> NetGear - it's served well through a couple different internet
> providers since then.
> John T.

Re: Modems?

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Subject: Re: Modems?
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:56 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
> Make sense to me.

Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
in the space would make more sense.

A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
hallway, even if centered.

Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
dealing with.

Re: Modems?

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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:41 UTC

On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>> Make sense to me.
>
> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
> in the space would make more sense.
>
> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
> hallway, even if centered.
>
> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
> dealing with.

Even that is not always accurate. I can go in my back yard and be
connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
out. It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.

Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
a radius is.

Re: Modems?

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 by: trader_4 - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:06 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
> Make sense to me.

So if you have an area that 1 million sq ft that is 1million feet long by 1 ft wide, that works the same
as an area that's 1000 x 1000? I don't think so.

Re: Modems?

<t5rqsa$guu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
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Subject: Re: Modems?
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:21:13 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:21 UTC

On 5/15/2022 11:41 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by
>>>> square feet rather than linear feet?
>>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>>> Make sense to me.
>>
>> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
>> in the space would make more sense.
>>
>> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
>> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of
>> a 1' x 2500'
>> hallway, even if centered.
>>
>> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly
>> what I'm
>> dealing with.
>
> Even that is not always accurate.  I can go in my back yard and be
> connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
> out.  It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
>
> Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
>  Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
> a radius is.

I met a guy early in the days of wifi that used a USB wifi adapter
fastened to a Dish TV antenna bowl to get a wifi connection from more
distant neighbors. I am sure there are specialty directional antennas
available if your router has appropriate connectors for them.

Re: Modems?

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Subject: Re: Modems?
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:36 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
> >> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
> >> Make sense to me.
> >
> > Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
> > in the space would make more sense.
> >
> > A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
> > well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
> > hallway, even if centered.
> >
> > Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
> > dealing with.
> Even that is not always accurate. I can go in my back yard and be
> connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
> out. It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
>
> Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
> Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
> a radius is.

Most (if not all) routers (which is what we area actually talking about) already
address potential degradation based on placement, obstructions, etc. Assuming
that that would remain as a warning if the coverage spec was changed, a distance
measurement does tend to make more sense than square footage.

But I get it. The marketing folks want to make it easy.

"How big is your house? "OK, this router will cover that square footage." *

* caveat, caveat, caveat.

Re: Modems?

<rMegK.59986$qMI1.34287@fx96.iad>

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Subject: Re: Modems?
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
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 by: Snag - Sun, 15 May 2022 22:03 UTC

On 5/15/2022 4:21 PM, Bob F wrote:
> On 5/15/2022 11:41 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by
>>>>> square feet rather than linear feet?
>>>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>>>> Make sense to me.
>>>
>>> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
>>> in the space would make more sense.
>>>
>>> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
>>> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of
>>> a 1' x 2500'
>>> hallway, even if centered.
>>>
>>> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly
>>> what I'm
>>> dealing with.
>>
>> Even that is not always accurate.  I can go in my back yard and be
>> connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
>> out.  It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
>>
>> Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual
>> needs.   Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer
>> knows what a radius is.
>
> I met a guy early in the days of wifi that used a USB wifi adapter
> fastened to a Dish TV antenna bowl to get a wifi connection from more
> distant neighbors. I am sure there are specialty directional antennas
> available if your router has appropriate connectors for them.

There are directions on the internet to make a parabolic type
reflector to increase wifi range - and make it directional . Basically
foil glued to poster board .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fears begin .

Re: Modems?

<JEfgK.46519$JSxf.10014@fx11.iad>

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From: esp...@snet.xxx (Ed Pawlowski)
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 by: Ed Pawlowski - Sun, 15 May 2022 23:03 UTC

On 5/15/2022 5:06 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>> Make sense to me.
>
> So if you have an area that 1 million sq ft that is 1million feet long by 1 ft wide, that works the same
> as an area that's 1000 x 1000? I don't think so.

Poor composition on my part. The area makes sense, not linear.

Re: Modems?

<b9a38hdq20ftok61q5md27bo1op1fuev70@4ax.com>

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From: non...@none.invalid (Jim Joyce)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Modems?
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 by: Jim Joyce - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:36 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:21:13 -0700, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>I met a guy early in the days of wifi that used a USB wifi adapter
>fastened to a Dish TV antenna bowl to get a wifi connection from more
>distant neighbors.

I did that in 2005-2006. Those were the days of little or no encryption,
so I was able to access most of my neighbors' systems. Some people used
WEP encryption, not realizing that it could be bypassed in as little as
30 seconds.

>I am sure there are specialty directional antennas
>available if your router has appropriate connectors for them.

Agreed.

Re: Modems?

<ala38h5ojdiqvq7vq18p4btqg8qgq7ldaf@4ax.com>

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From: non...@none.invalid (Jim Joyce)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Modems?
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 by: Jim Joyce - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:40 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:41:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>>> Make sense to me.
>>
>> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
>> in the space would make more sense.
>>
>> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
>> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
>> hallway, even if centered.
>>
>> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
>> dealing with.
>
>Even that is not always accurate. I can go in my back yard and be
>connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
>out. It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
>
>Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
> Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
>a radius is.

Some of the newer WiFi routers have an antenna array, versus a single
antenna. With an array, the router can determine where the active
clients are, and it can 'beamform', where it sends its signal where it's
needed rather than transmitting equally in every direction.

Re: Modems?

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Subject: Re: Modems?
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:45 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:40:45 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:41:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
> >On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> >>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
> >>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
> >>> Make sense to me.
> >>
> >> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
> >> in the space would make more sense.
> >>
> >> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
> >> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
> >> hallway, even if centered.
> >>
> >> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
> >> dealing with.
> >
> >Even that is not always accurate. I can go in my back yard and be
> >connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
> >out. It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
> >
> >Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
> > Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
> >a radius is.
> Some of the newer WiFi routers have an antenna array, versus a single
> antenna. With an array, the router can determine where the active
> clients are, and it can 'beamform', where it sends its signal where it's
> needed rather than transmitting equally in every direction.

I'm impressed by the range of cell phone wifi, either to connect to a hotspot
or when used as a hotspot. It's just a small battery powered device.

Re: Modems?

<BbKiK.2074$CBlb.2040@fx42.iad>

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From: fre...@mouse-potato.com (Bud Frede)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Modems?
Organization: Wossamotta U.
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 by: Bud Frede - Mon, 23 May 2022 11:26 UTC

Marilyn Manson <comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> writes:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> > I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>> Make sense to me.
>
> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
> in the space would make more sense.
>
> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
> hallway, even if centered.
>
> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
> dealing with.

I've never seen a modem rated by length _or_ area. Perhaps you mean some
kind of all-in-one "cable modem/router/WiFi access point?"

Specs of coverage area for WiFi equipment are mostly marketing lol, just
as the rated speeds they advertise for WiFi are marketing lol.

In addition, they could claim that it covers 2500 sq ft, or that it will
be usable up to 50 feet from the access point, but the same device might
cover the whole area for me and only 1/4 of it for you. You won't really
know exactly what you're dealing with if you go just by what the
marketing dept. tells you.

You can do a bit better with the kind of specs that a company like
Ruckus or Cambium provides, but then you'll still need to do a site
survey and take some actual measurements, plus you'll need some
experience with deploying WiFi and network equipment.

For the consumer, it often comes down to making a guess and then you
suck it and see if it works.

Eero is a good mesh system. Plume is too, but they charge a yearly
fee. The rest of the "mesh" systems out there are pretty meh. Synology
makes a good router/access point, and Asus has some models that are
decent. I wouldn't recommend most other consumer network brands.

Re: Modems?

<CgKiK.2675$gjlb.2661@fx44.iad>

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Modems?
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 by: Bud Frede - Mon, 23 May 2022 11:31 UTC

Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid> writes:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:41:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>>On 5/15/2022 1:56 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/14/2022 9:48 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> I've been looking at modems this morning. Why are they rated by square feet rather than linear feet?
>>>> The signal radiates in all directions. Linear would be more of a beam.
>>>> Make sense to me.
>>>
>>> Seems like a linear value with the caveat that the modem be centered
>>> in the space would make more sense.
>>>
>>> A modem capable of providing service in an e.g. 2500 sq ft area may work
>>> well if centered in a 50' x 50' space, but might not reach the end of a 1' x 2500'
>>> hallway, even if centered.
>>>
>>> Tell me that it broadcasts 50' in all directions, than I know exactly what I'm
>>> dealing with.
>>
>>Even that is not always accurate. I can go in my back yard and be
>>connected but if I go next door it is a shorter distance but will drop
>>out. It has to go through a couple of walls in that direction.
>>
>>Would be great if you could shape the signal cone for individual needs.
>> Maybe an "up to" radius would help. That assumes the buyer knows what
>>a radius is.
>
> Some of the newer WiFi routers have an antenna array, versus a single
> antenna. With an array, the router can determine where the active
> clients are, and it can 'beamform', where it sends its signal where it's
> needed rather than transmitting equally in every direction.

Some pro gear does this and has it actually working. With most other
gear it's more marketing lol. In addition, AFAIK, MU-MIMO and
beamforming are not compatible, so if they're claiming the product has
both it is - again - marketing lol.

1
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