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interests / alt.home.repair / Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

SubjectAuthor
* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
`* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 +* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |`* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 | +* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 | |`* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 | | +- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 | | `- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairDean Hoffman
 | `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |  `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 |   `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |    `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 |     +* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 |     |`* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |     | `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 |     |  `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 |     |   +- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |     |   `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 |     |    `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 |     |     +* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 |     |     |`* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
 |     |     | +- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
 |     |     | `- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairHiram T Schwantz
 |     |     `- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |     `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4
 |      `- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairHiram T Schwantz
 `* Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairRonTheGuy
  +- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairMarilyn Manson
  `- Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repairtrader_4

Pages:12
Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

<1gyanx6c8ftus.dlg@news.solani.org>

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From: ron...@null.invalid (RonTheGuy)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 09:24:11 -0800
Organization: solani.org
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 by: RonTheGuy - Wed, 18 May 2022 17:24 UTC

Helping an old lady who has no money.

She has two problems, one is replacing the damaged wood under a rug (I
don't know what's in between the rug and wood) but first and foremost is
fixing the leaking drain pipe. See the photos below.

The leaking drain pipe comes from the washing machine in the garage.
It leaks only when water goes into the kitchen sink or out of the washer.

They "T" together ten feet from the leak and then travel on another fifty
to the bathrooms. The kitchen and washer are the high point ends of the
line (the bathrooms fifty feet away are the low point).

I suspect a long time clog backed up and rusted out the steel nipple.
But she says there was no long time clog (but the mold says otherwise).
(She doesn't know I see the mold in the crawlspace.)

I'm going to snake it out first but I need to borrow 50 to 75 feet.

I've done basic plumbing but never have I worked with drainage lines.
They're really fat. Maybe 3 inches? Maybe 2-1/2? Galvanized I guess.
Steel maybe. The nipples didn't seem to be galvanized.

My first question is do I stand a chance of twisting them off?
I can cut them with a sawzall but I still have to twist them off.

I think (but I'm not 100% sure) it rusted out at the threaded nipple.

Can I replace these big fat steel pipes with the black plastic (is that ABS
or PVC?) drain pipes? Or is steel better? House was built in the 60s I
think. I just want to know my options as I tend to try to remove
rather than patch.

The problem is I don't have space to turn anything but a straight pipe.
Do these fat drain pipes get the regular teflon pipe tape? Or the goop?

Have you any other ideas?

https://8upload.com/image/628527f0a5e68/file01.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f0eb3f5/file02.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f12cb53/file04.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f15c8e2/file05.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f190bdc/file06.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f1c707d/file07.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f20708a/file08.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f234faf/file09.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f2680c2/file10.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/628527f2961ea/file11.jpg

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

<a70c167a-a664-4ecd-bc82-d189aa94a680n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:46 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:23:52 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> Helping an old lady who has no money.
>
> She has two problems, one is replacing the damaged wood under a rug (I
> don't know what's in between the rug and wood) but first and foremost is
> fixing the leaking drain pipe. See the photos below.
>
> The leaking drain pipe comes from the washing machine in the garage.
> It leaks only when water goes into the kitchen sink or out of the washer.
>
> They "T" together ten feet from the leak and then travel on another fifty
> to the bathrooms. The kitchen and washer are the high point ends of the
> line (the bathrooms fifty feet away are the low point).
>
> I suspect a long time clog backed up and rusted out the steel nipple.
> But she says there was no long time clog (but the mold says otherwise).
> (She doesn't know I see the mold in the crawlspace.)
>
> I'm going to snake it out first but I need to borrow 50 to 75 feet.
>
> I've done basic plumbing but never have I worked with drainage lines.
> They're really fat. Maybe 3 inches? Maybe 2-1/2? Galvanized I guess.
> Steel maybe. The nipples didn't seem to be galvanized.
>
> My first question is do I stand a chance of twisting them off?
> I can cut them with a sawzall but I still have to twist them off.
>
> I think (but I'm not 100% sure) it rusted out at the threaded nipple.
>
> Can I replace these big fat steel pipes with the black plastic (is that ABS
> or PVC?) drain pipes? Or is steel better? House was built in the 60s I
> think. I just want to know my options as I tend to try to remove
> rather than patch.
>
> The problem is I don't have space to turn anything but a straight pipe.
> Do these fat drain pipes get the regular teflon pipe tape? Or the goop?
>
> Have you any other ideas?
>
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f0a5e68/file01.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f0eb3f5/file02.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f12cb53/file04.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f15c8e2/file05.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f190bdc/file06.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f1c707d/file07.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f20708a/file08.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f234faf/file09.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f2680c2/file10.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f2961ea/file11.jpg
>
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel.
Wear face protection and a GFCI.

Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe. All sorts of
connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any
home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing
supply house.

Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.

https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

<4a8ad91e-6d9f-4f4c-b778-f9f9d6355b05n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 14:29:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: trader_4 - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:29 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:46:13 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:23:52 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> > Helping an old lady who has no money.
> >
> > She has two problems, one is replacing the damaged wood under a rug (I
> > don't know what's in between the rug and wood) but first and foremost is
> > fixing the leaking drain pipe. See the photos below.
> >
> > The leaking drain pipe comes from the washing machine in the garage.
> > It leaks only when water goes into the kitchen sink or out of the washer.
> >
> > They "T" together ten feet from the leak and then travel on another fifty
> > to the bathrooms. The kitchen and washer are the high point ends of the
> > line (the bathrooms fifty feet away are the low point).
> >
> > I suspect a long time clog backed up and rusted out the steel nipple.
> > But she says there was no long time clog (but the mold says otherwise).
> > (She doesn't know I see the mold in the crawlspace.)
> >
> > I'm going to snake it out first but I need to borrow 50 to 75 feet.
> >
> > I've done basic plumbing but never have I worked with drainage lines.
> > They're really fat. Maybe 3 inches? Maybe 2-1/2? Galvanized I guess.
> > Steel maybe. The nipples didn't seem to be galvanized.
> >
> > My first question is do I stand a chance of twisting them off?
> > I can cut them with a sawzall but I still have to twist them off.
> >
> > I think (but I'm not 100% sure) it rusted out at the threaded nipple.
> >
> > Can I replace these big fat steel pipes with the black plastic (is that ABS
> > or PVC?) drain pipes? Or is steel better? House was built in the 60s I
> > think. I just want to know my options as I tend to try to remove
> > rather than patch.
> >
> > The problem is I don't have space to turn anything but a straight pipe.
> > Do these fat drain pipes get the regular teflon pipe tape? Or the goop?
> >
> > Have you any other ideas?
> >
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f0a5e68/file01.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f0eb3f5/file02.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f12cb53/file04.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f15c8e2/file05.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f190bdc/file06.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f1c707d/file07.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f20708a/file08.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f234faf/file09.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f2680c2/file10.jpg
> > https://8upload.com/image/628527f2961ea/file11.jpg
> >
> > Ron, the humblest guy in town.
> Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel.
> Wear face protection and a GFCI.
>
> Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe. All sorts of
> connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any
> home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing
> supply house.
>
> Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.
>
> https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings

Agree. First try to figure what pipe that is there is still sound. That can
be impossible because it rusts away from the inside out. Cut it wherever
it's most accessible, nothing wrong with taking out 5 extra feet and some
more fittings for example if it makes it easier. I would probably use ABS
for drain pipe, but either that or PVC is acceptable.

Once you get it cut and can inspect it better you can access how bad it
is. Long term problem is that usually once it starts to go, there will be
other problems coming from what's left there. Which is why they don't
use steel anymore.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

<dknz583fyvjr.dlg@news.solani.org>

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From: ron...@null.invalid (RonTheGuy)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 07:03:24 -0800
Organization: solani.org
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 by: RonTheGuy - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:03 UTC

On May 18, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
(in article<news:a70c167a-a664-4ecd-bc82-d189aa94a680n@googlegroups.com>):

> Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel.
> Wear face protection and a GFCI.

Thanks for all your advice as I've done "normal" plumbing before, but never
"waste" pipe plumbing (most of my work was copper or 3/4" & 1/2"
galvanized, or landscape white PVC).

Cutting them isn't any problem (the only problem is the crawl space is
narrow in terms of doing anything, especially anything long, such as
twisting a pipe would take with a long pipe wrench - and 20-foot steel
pipes would be unwieldy as they must way scores of pounds each).

> Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe.

Thanks for those keywords as I don't know any of the keywords yet.
I always thought they used ABS (the black stuff), don't they?

I found a few leaks while I was in the crawl space so I also will
be replacing a few 20-foot lengths of the drain pipe too.

I need to figure out what material to use first, I guess.

Looking up what is Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=What+is+Schedule+40+PVC+DWV+pipe
It seems to be for potable water applications & found in 20 foot lengths.
http://www.nationalpipe.com/document_files/1383847944_Plumbrite.pdf

If that's to code and if that's a good solution, that would have the
advantages of not needing to have exact pipe lengths threaded at Home Depot
as I could just put that Fernco on the end that meets a similarly sized
steel pipe.

However, it seems schedule 40 is slightly different from drain/waste/vent.
Same material, apparently, but the schedule 40 has thicker walls it seems.

ABS is a different material. Is that black ABS also possible to use?

> All sorts of
> connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any
> home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing
> supply house.
>
> Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.
>
> https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings

But can non-threaded PVC go into a typical cast iron Y shaped pipe which is
in the cement at the kitchen outside drain and at the garage outside drain
plus?

I wonder if those cast iron Y shaped cleanouts can be removed?
They seem cemented into the wall.

Do they typically come out with a sledgehammer?
If so, do you replace them with PVC/DWV/ABS (which seems much weaker)?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

<f83ea2c6-7855-4105-950d-5c8513bf8601n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:17 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:03:07 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 18, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:a70c167a-a664-4ecd...@googlegroups.com>):
> > Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel.
> > Wear face protection and a GFCI.
> Thanks for all your advice as I've done "normal" plumbing before, but never
> "waste" pipe plumbing (most of my work was copper or 3/4" & 1/2"
> galvanized, or landscape white PVC).
>
> Cutting them isn't any problem (the only problem is the crawl space is
> narrow in terms of doing anything, especially anything long, such as
> twisting a pipe would take with a long pipe wrench - and 20-foot steel
> pipes would be unwieldy as they must way scores of pounds each).
> > Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe.
> Thanks for those keywords as I don't know any of the keywords yet.
> I always thought they used ABS (the black stuff), don't they?
>
> I found a few leaks while I was in the crawl space so I also will
> be replacing a few 20-foot lengths of the drain pipe too.
>
> I need to figure out what material to use first, I guess.
>
> Looking up what is Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=What+is+Schedule+40+PVC+DWV+pipe
> It seems to be for potable water applications & found in 20 foot lengths.
> http://www.nationalpipe.com/document_files/1383847944_Plumbrite.pdf
>
> If that's to code and if that's a good solution, that would have the
> advantages of not needing to have exact pipe lengths threaded at Home Depot
> as I could just put that Fernco on the end that meets a similarly sized
> steel pipe.
>
> However, it seems schedule 40 is slightly different from drain/waste/vent.
> Same material, apparently, but the schedule 40 has thicker walls it seems.
>
> ABS is a different material. Is that black ABS also possible to use?

Feel free to use anything labeled as DWV - drain/waste/vent.

Just make sure you use the correct size in the correct locations. Bigger is not better.
Connect a 1.6 gal toilet to a 10" drain pipe. How far do you think the solids will travel?
Answer: They won't. They need to be suspended to flow and as the bottom of the pipe
approaches "flat" they will just sit there.

> > All sorts of
> > connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any
> > home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing
> > supply house.
> >
> > Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.
> >
> > https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings
> But can non-threaded PVC go into a typical cast iron Y shaped pipe which is
> in the cement at the kitchen outside drain and at the garage outside drain
> plus?

Not sure what a "typical cast iron Y" is. There are so many different styles.

In any case, two options come to mind, depending on how the pipe enters the Y.

Cut the pipe, leaving a stub sticking out of the Y and then use a Fernco no-hub
coupling to transition to PVC.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_20180627_174742_01-jpg.47321/

If it's a leaded connection, you could drill out the lead, clean up the inside of the Y, and use a
Fernco donut like these guys do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57hb7YE7Uuc

>
> I wonder if those cast iron Y shaped cleanouts can be removed?
> They seem cemented into the wall.
>
> Do they typically come out with a sledgehammer?

There's that "typically" word again.

Most things will come out with a sledge hammer if you work at it hard enough.
Not knowing what you have I'm not going to comment on using that specific tool
other than to say that I'll bet there's a better way to accomplish your goal.

> If so, do you replace them with PVC/DWV/ABS (which seems much weaker)?

Entire houses, commercial buildings, etc. are plumbed with all PVC. Why do you
think weaker/stronger is important here? What is the metal Y doing that requires
more "strength" than a PVC one would provide?

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:03:07 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 18, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:a70c167a-a664-4ecd...@googlegroups.com>):
> > Cut them with a reciprocating saw or a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a cut off wheel.
> > Wear face protection and a GFCI.
> Thanks for all your advice as I've done "normal" plumbing before, but never
> "waste" pipe plumbing (most of my work was copper or 3/4" & 1/2"
> galvanized, or landscape white PVC).
>
> Cutting them isn't any problem (the only problem is the crawl space is
> narrow in terms of doing anything, especially anything long, such as
> twisting a pipe would take with a long pipe wrench - and 20-foot steel
> pipes would be unwieldy as they must way scores of pounds each).
> > Use Fernco couplings to transition to Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe.
> Thanks for those keywords as I don't know any of the keywords yet.
> I always thought they used ABS (the black stuff), don't they?
>
> I found a few leaks while I was in the crawl space so I also will
> be replacing a few 20-foot lengths of the drain pipe too.
>
> I need to figure out what material to use first, I guess.
>
> Looking up what is Schedule 40 PVC DWV pipe
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=What+is+Schedule+40+PVC+DWV+pipe
> It seems to be for potable water applications & found in 20 foot lengths.
> http://www.nationalpipe.com/document_files/1383847944_Plumbrite.pdf
>
> If that's to code and if that's a good solution, that would have the
> advantages of not needing to have exact pipe lengths threaded at Home Depot
> as I could just put that Fernco on the end that meets a similarly sized
> steel pipe.
>
> However, it seems schedule 40 is slightly different from drain/waste/vent.
> Same material, apparently, but the schedule 40 has thicker walls it seems.
>
> ABS is a different material. Is that black ABS also possible to use?

It's what is most commonly used for waste pipe.

> > All sorts of
> > connector types shown below. The more common ones will be available at any
> > home center. If you need something special, you may need to contact a plumbing
> > supply house.
> >
> > Fernco couplings were basically invented for this type of situation.
> >
> > https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings
> But can non-threaded PVC go into a typical cast iron Y shaped pipe which is
> in the cement at the kitchen outside drain and at the garage outside drain
> plus?

Sounds like that's the very old cast iron where one inserted into the other and
was joined with hot lead. I'd try to avoid getting to that, if you can. But there
must be some modern solution to mate with it if you have to, IDK what that is
though.
>
> I wonder if those cast iron Y shaped cleanouts can be removed?
> They seem cemented into the wall.

IDK what exactly you have.

>
> Do they typically come out with a sledgehammer?
> If so, do you replace them with PVC/DWV/ABS (which seems much weaker)?
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

All the new work is using that, so yes. My house it's ABS all the way to the street.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 08:36:13 -0800
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 by: RonTheGuy - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:36 UTC

On May 19, 2022, trader_4 wrote
(in article<news:4a8ad91e-6d9f-4f4c-b778-f9f9d6355b05n@googlegroups.com>):

> Agree. First try to figure what pipe that is there is still sound.

I did that yesterday and I found out there are three leaks & a drain clog.
https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbb413b/file12.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbe492a/file13.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc22290/file14.jpg
https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc581ab/file15.jpg

> That can
> be impossible because it rusts away from the inside out. Cut it wherever
> it's most accessible, nothing wrong with taking out 5 extra feet and some
> more fittings for example if it makes it easier. I would probably use ABS
> for drain pipe, but either that or PVC is acceptable.

I'm going to replace every pipe that leaked at the very least.
Plus whatever has to be replaced in order to replace those pipes that
leaked.

At the most, it's going to be two twenty foot sections (each of which has a
pinhole leak), and the rusted out nipple at the "Y" shaped drain cleanout.

The problem is the drain cleanouts are apparently cemented in. Are they?
How do you replace them without destroying the concrete there?

> Once you get it cut and can inspect it better you can access how bad it
> is. Long term problem is that usually once it starts to go, there will be
> other problems coming from what's left there. Which is why they don't
> use steel anymore.

The pipe is easier than those two drain cleanouts, one of which is leaking
at a nipple but it might break or might be too corroded inside to reuse.

What seems to have happened is that there was a long term (years!) clog
that used to back up into the sink she told me but then stopped backing up.

That's because it rusted out the nipple and leaked there instead.
I cleaned out the clog with a 100 foot snake so that's gone for now.

The question is HOW to fix this at the least expense possible where
replacing all the damaged pipe is a given. It's only with what?
White Schedule 40 PVC?
White DWV PVC?
Black ABS?

Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for
strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.

The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow.
But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.

And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts
which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.

To be clear on my skills, I've done copper/galvanized/pvc plumbing repairs
before, but never drain pipes and never these cemented in drain cleanouts.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:10:22 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Marilyn Manson - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:10 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 19, 2022, trader_4 wrote
> (in article<news:4a8ad91e-6d9f-4f4c...@googlegroups.com>):
> > Agree. First try to figure what pipe that is there is still sound.
> I did that yesterday and I found out there are three leaks & a drain clog.
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbb413b/file12.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbe492a/file13.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc22290/file14.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc581ab/file15.jpg
> > That can
> > be impossible because it rusts away from the inside out. Cut it wherever
> > it's most accessible, nothing wrong with taking out 5 extra feet and some
> > more fittings for example if it makes it easier. I would probably use ABS
> > for drain pipe, but either that or PVC is acceptable.
> I'm going to replace every pipe that leaked at the very least.
> Plus whatever has to be replaced in order to replace those pipes that
> leaked.
>
> At the most, it's going to be two twenty foot sections (each of which has a
> pinhole leak), and the rusted out nipple at the "Y" shaped drain cleanout.
>
> The problem is the drain cleanouts are apparently cemented in. Are they?
> How do you replace them without destroying the concrete there?
> > Once you get it cut and can inspect it better you can access how bad it
> > is. Long term problem is that usually once it starts to go, there will be
> > other problems coming from what's left there. Which is why they don't
> > use steel anymore.
> The pipe is easier than those two drain cleanouts, one of which is leaking
> at a nipple but it might break or might be too corroded inside to reuse.
>
> What seems to have happened is that there was a long term (years!) clog
> that used to back up into the sink she told me but then stopped backing up.
>
> That's because it rusted out the nipple and leaked there instead.
> I cleaned out the clog with a 100 foot snake so that's gone for now.
>
> The question is HOW to fix this at the least expense possible where
> replacing all the damaged pipe is a given. It's only with what?
> White Schedule 40 PVC?
> White DWV PVC?
> Black ABS?
>
> Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for
> strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.

When discussing "DMV pipe" and Schedule 40 pipe, it's not really "one or the other".

Schedule 40 is a thickness specification.

DWV is an acronym for Drain Waste Vent.

Pipes that will be under pressure must use Sch 40 (or greater). "Basic" DWV
pipes are not rated for pressure (or heat). However, there is in fact Sch 40 PVC DWV
pipes. I suggested that in my first response.

Many people use Sch 40 DWV because it doesn't sag as much as basic DWV and,
being thicker, has slightly better sound deadening ability.

Where it gets even more confusing is when we introduce Sch 40 Foam Core DWV vs.
Sch 40 DWV into the discussion:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-4-in-x-2-ft-PVC-Schedule-40-DWV-Foam-Core-Pipe-PVC-04400-0200/202018044

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-3-in-x-2-ft-PVC-DWV-Sch-40-Pipe-PVC-07300-0200HA/100533056

>
> The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow.
> But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.
>
> And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts
> which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.

I addressed that in an earlier post.

>
> To be clear on my skills, I've done copper/galvanized/pvc plumbing repairs
> before, but never drain pipes and never these cemented in drain cleanouts.
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Fri, 20 May 2022 13:13 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 19, 2022, trader_4 wrote
> (in article<news:4a8ad91e-6d9f-4f4c...@googlegroups.com>):
> > Agree. First try to figure what pipe that is there is still sound.
> I did that yesterday and I found out there are three leaks & a drain clog.
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbb413b/file12.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdbe492a/file13.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc22290/file14.jpg
> https://8upload.com/image/62866fdc581ab/file15.jpg
> > That can
> > be impossible because it rusts away from the inside out. Cut it wherever
> > it's most accessible, nothing wrong with taking out 5 extra feet and some
> > more fittings for example if it makes it easier. I would probably use ABS
> > for drain pipe, but either that or PVC is acceptable.
> I'm going to replace every pipe that leaked at the very least.
> Plus whatever has to be replaced in order to replace those pipes that
> leaked.
>
> At the most, it's going to be two twenty foot sections (each of which has a
> pinhole leak), and the rusted out nipple at the "Y" shaped drain cleanout.
>
> The problem is the drain cleanouts are apparently cemented in. Are they?
> How do you replace them without destroying the concrete there?

I don't see any cleanouts in the 4 above pics.

> > Once you get it cut and can inspect it better you can access how bad it
> > is. Long term problem is that usually once it starts to go, there will be
> > other problems coming from what's left there. Which is why they don't
> > use steel anymore.
> The pipe is easier than those two drain cleanouts, one of which is leaking
> at a nipple but it might break or might be too corroded inside to reuse.

I think you have a bigger project here. One of those pics shows a section
of pipe where it is shot and leaking in the middle. So all that old galvanized
should be replaced.

>
> What seems to have happened is that there was a long term (years!) clog
> that used to back up into the sink she told me but then stopped backing up.
>
> That's because it rusted out the nipple and leaked there instead.
> I cleaned out the clog with a 100 foot snake so that's gone for now.
>
> The question is HOW to fix this at the least expense possible where
> replacing all the damaged pipe is a given. It's only with what?
> White Schedule 40 PVC?
> White DWV PVC?
> Black ABS?

I would use ABS, because it's black and traditionally it's been used for
waste and you already have some of that there in one pic. But you can
use either that or PVC.

>
> Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for
> strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.
>
> The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow.
> But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.

IDK anything about that part, but both ABS and PVC can be used. Price could
be a factor, especially in the current environment. ABS has been more widely
used in the past, IDK current practice, but you have some ABS there already,
why mix it up?

>
> And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts
> which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.

I still haven't seen those

>
> To be clear on my skills, I've done copper/galvanized/pvc plumbing repairs
> before, but never drain pipes and never these cemented in drain cleanouts.
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

This is just like PVC, except you have to connect at some point to whatever
steel or iron there is. If you don't want to be doing this again in another
section, I would do all of it or as much as accessible. At least do all of
this whole run to a logical point where it terminates. Then if another run
serving something else leaks you could to that whole run later. All the galvanized
should be treated as shot. If it eventually gets to a cast iron waste pipe,
probably where it exits the building, that should be OK, it's much thicker.

Hopefully this is just one story. If it's two then you have a much bigger
problem, because second story pipes are not accessible. Even one story
may require opening walls for access in some spots.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
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 by: RonTheGuy - Sat, 21 May 2022 21:46 UTC

On May 20, 2022, trader_4 wrote
(in article<news:47795c3b-85cc-4c4f-ad1d-674c0841abe5n@googlegroups.com>):

> I don't see any cleanouts in the 4 above pics.

This is the back side of the washing machine cleanout "Y" shaped pipe.
https://8upload.com/image/628527f20708a/file08.jpg

This is the front side of that same washing machine cleanout "Y" pipe.
https://8upload.com/display/628527f3a88c5/file11.jpg
> I think you have a bigger project here. One of those pics shows a section
> of pipe where it is shot and leaking in the middle. So all that old galvanized
> should be replaced.

Yep. I will be replacing at least two twenty-foot sections of the 2-inch
galvanized pipe with (probably) ABS plastic and Fernco connections.

I "might" do all the drain pipe while I'm at it though.
I have to decide how much I want to tackle at the same time.

The only part that may be difficult, I think, since I've never done it, is
the "Y" shaped metal cleanouts may be "cemented" into the wall for all I
know.

> I would use ABS, because it's black and traditionally it's been used for
> waste and you already have some of that there in one pic. But you can
> use either that or PVC.

I'll use whatever pipe is supposed to be used.

>> Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for
>> strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.
>>
>> The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow.
>> But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.
>
> IDK anything about that part, but both ABS and PVC can be used. Price could
> be a factor, especially in the current environment. ABS has been more widely
> used in the past, IDK current practice, but you have some ABS there already,
> why mix it up?

It's already mixed up, but my problem is only how to get the cleanouts done
since they "appear" to be cemented into the foundation (which is a bitch if
they are). They may simply be sitting on the foundation though. I can't
tell.
>> And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts
>> which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.
>
> I still haven't seen those

They're in all the pictures but you're looking at only the backside.
The front side is where you already saw the black ABS.

Look at the _bottom_ of that picture for the cleanout.
https://8upload.com/image/628527f2961ea/file11.jpg

I can't get that cleanout open because of the lack of room for leverage.
(There's a cabinet above and only one angle that is possible so even a long
pipe will never work.)

Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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From: ron...@null.invalid (RonTheGuy)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 13:47:58 -0800
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 by: RonTheGuy - Sat, 21 May 2022 21:47 UTC

On May 19, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
(in article<news:98001c75-239b-4257-b097-bb18ef949424n@googlegroups.com>):

> DWV is an acronym for Drain Waste Vent.

I'll use whatever pipe material is supposed to be used.

BTW, one of the two cleanouts I can't get off even with a three foot long
pipe wrench simply because there's no room to get any leverage on it.

Do they make a square socket for those cleanout plugs so that I can get
"away" from the wall and _then_ get some leverage?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Sat, 21 May 2022 23:36 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 5:47:50 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 19, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:98001c75-239b-4257...@googlegroups.com>):
> > DWV is an acronym for Drain Waste Vent.
> I'll use whatever pipe material is supposed to be used.
>
> BTW, one of the two cleanouts I can't get off even with a three foot long
> pipe wrench simply because there's no room to get any leverage on it.

Have you tried heat?

Cast iron? Grab a cold chisel and a hammer and bust it out. Cast iron is very brittle.
Then use a rubber expanding clean up cap.

>
> Do they make a square socket for those cleanout plugs so that I can get
> "away" from the wall and _then_ get some leverage?

They do make 4 point sockets for certain automotive applications. You just
need to figure out what size you need.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunex-2-Inch-16-Inch-Female-Socket/dp/B006L23G0W

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: deanh6...@gmail.com (Dean Hoffman)
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 by: Dean Hoffman - Sun, 22 May 2022 00:10 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 4:47:50 PM UTC-5, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 19, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:98001c75-239b-4257...@googlegroups.com>):
> > DWV is an acronym for Drain Waste Vent.
> I'll use whatever pipe material is supposed to be used.
>
> BTW, one of the two cleanouts I can't get off even with a three foot long
> pipe wrench simply because there's no room to get any leverage on it.
One old trick involves using two hammers. Hold a 3 pound hammer against
one side of the clean out. Use a smaller hammer to pound on the opposite
side of the coupler. The vibration this causes sometimes helps to loosen things.
It works better than using just one hammer.
>
> Do they make a square socket for those cleanout plugs so that I can get
> "away" from the wall and _then_ get some leverage?
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Sun, 22 May 2022 14:01 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 5:45:44 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 20, 2022, trader_4 wrote
> (in article<news:47795c3b-85cc-4c4f...@googlegroups.com>):
> > I don't see any cleanouts in the 4 above pics.
> This is the back side of the washing machine cleanout "Y" shaped pipe.
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f20708a/file08.jpg
>
> This is the front side of that same washing machine cleanout "Y" pipe.
> https://8upload.com/display/628527f3a88c5/file11.jpg

Only the first pic opens and I still see no clean outs.

> > I think you have a bigger project here. One of those pics shows a section
> > of pipe where it is shot and leaking in the middle. So all that old galvanized
> > should be replaced.
> Yep. I will be replacing at least two twenty-foot sections of the 2-inch
> galvanized pipe with (probably) ABS plastic and Fernco connections.
>
> I "might" do all the drain pipe while I'm at it though.
> I have to decide how much I want to tackle at the same time.
>
> The only part that may be difficult, I think, since I've never done it, is
> the "Y" shaped metal cleanouts may be "cemented" into the wall for all I
> know.
> > I would use ABS, because it's black and traditionally it's been used for
> > waste and you already have some of that there in one pic. But you can
> > use either that or PVC.
> I'll use whatever pipe is supposed to be used.
> >> Digging on the Internet I think DWV is better than Schedule 40 not for
> >> strength but for the fact that the connections are apparently different.
> >>
> >> The DWV connections have smaller bumps on the seams to let water flow.
> >> But I don't know anything about ABS yet so I have to explore that.
> >
> > IDK anything about that part, but both ABS and PVC can be used. Price could
> > be a factor, especially in the current environment. ABS has been more widely
> > used in the past, IDK current practice, but you have some ABS there already,
> > why mix it up?
> It's already mixed up, but my problem is only how to get the cleanouts done
> since they "appear" to be cemented into the foundation (which is a bitch if
> they are). They may simply be sitting on the foundation though. I can't
> tell.
> >> And the BIG PROBLEM is what to do with the two "Y" shaped cleanouts
> >> which are seemingly CEMENTED into the foundation. That's an issue.
> >
> > I still haven't seen those
> They're in all the pictures but you're looking at only the backside.
> The front side is where you already saw the black ABS.
>
> Look at the _bottom_ of that picture for the cleanout.
> https://8upload.com/image/628527f2961ea/file11.jpg

OK, now I see a cleanout. Once the pipes on the other side are free,
you can probably drive that out with a big hammer without too much
trouble. They probably made a hole then just filled it back up a bit with
cement, not likely it's holding all that much.

>
> I can't get that cleanout open because of the lack of room for leverage.
> (There's a cabinet above and only one angle that is possible so even a long
> pipe will never work.)
>
> Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

IDK, if there is one, I've never used it but why do you need to get it out?
It's going to be replaced, isn't it?

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 06:23:43 -0800
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 by: RonTheGuy - Sun, 22 May 2022 14:23 UTC

On May 22, 2022, trader_4 wrote
(in article<news:a3bd88eb-94f0-49e9-985c-fb0d17c531d5n@googlegroups.com>):

>> Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?
>
> IDK, if there is one, I've never used it but why do you need to get it out?
> It's going to be replaced, isn't it?

I'm "worried" about replacing the Y shaped drainouts only because I don't
know if they're cemented in or not since they _look_ like they're cemented.
https://8upload.com/display/628527f3a88c5/file11.jpg

I got a plumber to show up for a "free estimate" who gave the owner a quote
for $3800 to replace all the drain pipes in the crawlspace but the owner
told me he was there for five minutes and only listened to her explain it.

Is it normal for a plumber to not even look at the pipes under the floors?

Anyway, I can do it for her for whatever the price of the 2-inch pipes are,
which I will use whatever is the "right stuff" (I'm presuming ABS DWV but I
don't really care as long as it's whatever is the "right stuff" to use).

I'll go to Home Depot, probably tomorrow, and buy three sections of 20 foot
2-inch "the right stuff" pipe and a couple of those Y shaped drainouts just
in case I can replace them. There's no room to twist them. I can maybe
twist the pipe out that goes into them but they must be ~75 years old).

The problem I will have isn't going to be the straight drain pipes because
I can just cut them with a sawzall or angle grinder with a cutting blade
and Fernco them. The plumber said anchors must be every four feet by code.

The only problem I'll have is those Y shaped drainouts since I don't know
_how_ they put them into the wall. If they're cemented in, I'm not going to
be chipping away at her foundation just because I don't want to ruin it.

I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."

I might end up doing what the she said the plumber wanted to do which is
cut the pipes off at the bathrooms on one end of the house and just replace
everything.

The plumbing starts at the kitchen and washer dryer in the garage and then
goes downhill down the house (a one-story railroad type) to the two full
bathrooms at the other end where it goes 90 degrees to the street about 50
or 75 feet away.

Do they usually plumb new work forward the way water flows downhill to the
bathrooms or do they work uphill from the bathrooms to the kitchen, or
doesn't it matter? There are more connections in the bathroom area.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Sun, 22 May 2022 19:55 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:

>
> I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
> the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
> choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."

Perhaps it was me, and I'll say it again: You have choices. There is no
single "right stuff" - unless your local code specifies it. Anything labeled
DWV, whether it's ABS, Sch 40 PVC. Sch 30 PVC, etc is "the right stuff".

Here, take it from a professional:

https://benjaminfranklinplumbingneohio.com/abs-or-pvc-which-is-better-for-your-project/

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 23 May 2022 13:59 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 22, 2022, trader_4 wrote
> (in article<news:a3bd88eb-94f0-49e9...@googlegroups.com>):
> >> Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?
> >
> > IDK, if there is one, I've never used it but why do you need to get it out?
> > It's going to be replaced, isn't it?
> I'm "worried" about replacing the Y shaped drainouts only because I don't
> know if they're cemented in or not since they _look_ like they're cemented.
> https://8upload.com/display/628527f3a88c5/file11.jpg

Without being there only so much we can tell. If you have good access to
the cleanouts on both sides of the cement block wall, it should be relatively
easy to knock them out, which is what I would do. It's then a complete fix
and you don't have to deal with unscrewing old pipe from them, which is
likely worse, rusted in old plugs that you can't get out, etc. To do this they
had to make an opening in the block, then they just push some concrete
in around the pipe when done to close off the outside. Should come out
with some good whacks from a sledgehammer.

>
> I got a plumber to show up for a "free estimate" who gave the owner a quote
> for $3800 to replace all the drain pipes in the crawlspace but the owner
> told me he was there for five minutes and only listened to her explain it.
>
> Is it normal for a plumber to not even look at the pipes under the floors?

I would certainly think not, but at that price there is likely enough margin
that they can just wing it.

>
> Anyway, I can do it for her for whatever the price of the 2-inch pipes are,
> which I will use whatever is the "right stuff" (I'm presuming ABS DWV but I
> don't really care as long as it's whatever is the "right stuff" to use).
>
> I'll go to Home Depot, probably tomorrow, and buy three sections of 20 foot
> 2-inch "the right stuff" pipe and a couple of those Y shaped drainouts just
> in case I can replace them. There's no room to twist them. I can maybe
> twist the pipe out that goes into them but they must be ~75 years old).
>
> The problem I will have isn't going to be the straight drain pipes because
> I can just cut them with a sawzall or angle grinder with a cutting blade
> and Fernco them. The plumber said anchors must be every four feet by code.
>
> The only problem I'll have is those Y shaped drainouts since I don't know
> _how_ they put them into the wall. If they're cemented in, I'm not going to
> be chipping away at her foundation just because I don't want to ruin it.
>
> I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
> the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
> choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."
>
> I might end up doing what the she said the plumber wanted to do which is
> cut the pipes off at the bathrooms on one end of the house and just replace
> everything.
>
> The plumbing starts at the kitchen and washer dryer in the garage and then
> goes downhill down the house (a one-story railroad type) to the two full
> bathrooms at the other end where it goes 90 degrees to the street about 50
> or 75 feet away.
>
> Do they usually plumb new work forward the way water flows downhill to the
> bathrooms or do they work uphill from the bathrooms to the kitchen, or
> doesn't it matter? There are more connections in the bathroom area.
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

It's up to you, whichever way works best for you. With multiple things
coming together into one, I'd probably start at the downhill side and
work upwards. Say you have two pipes that go into a Y connection.
I'd rather have the Y secured first, then go work the two incoming runs.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Mon, 23 May 2022 14:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
>
> >
> > I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
> > the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
> > choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."
> Perhaps it was me, and I'll say it again: You have choices. There is no
> single "right stuff" - unless your local code specifies it. Anything labeled
> DWV, whether it's ABS, Sch 40 PVC. Sch 30 PVC, etc is "the right stuff".
>
> Here, take it from a professional:
>
> https://benjaminfranklinplumbingneohio.com/abs-or-pvc-which-is-better-for-your-project/

I'd forgotten that ABS doesn't need primer. That further cements the decision
for me. One less thing to buy and one less step at every joint.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Mon, 23 May 2022 16:52 UTC

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 PM UTC-4, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
> > > the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
> > > choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."
> > Perhaps it was me, and I'll say it again: You have choices. There is no
> > single "right stuff" - unless your local code specifies it. Anything labeled
> > DWV, whether it's ABS, Sch 40 PVC. Sch 30 PVC, etc is "the right stuff".
> >
> > Here, take it from a professional:
> >
> > https://benjaminfranklinplumbingneohio.com/abs-or-pvc-which-is-better-for-your-project/
> I'd forgotten that ABS doesn't need primer. That further cements the decision
> for me. One less thing to buy and one less step at every joint.

No argument about your purchases and installation comment, but it tosses the other
factors aside, specifically strength, noise and, if you care, BPA. (In a drain pipe? I'm
not sure why anyone would care. ;-) )

Per that site:

"PVC is thought to be better at muffling the sound of running water."

Maybe in a crawl space, sound doesn't matter, but it I was running a drain
above a dropped ceiling in an e.g. finished basement, I might take sound
deadening into account.

However, my main point was to respond to Ron's comment " I don't want
choices. I just want to use "the right stuff." "

In this case, he can choose between different types of the "right stuff".

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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From: ron...@null.invalid (RonTheGuy)
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 10:14:36 -0800
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 by: RonTheGuy - Mon, 23 May 2022 18:14 UTC

On May 23, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
(in article<news:2234e520-fac8-4e1f-8f5d-a2fe5b2ddf1cn@googlegroups.com>):

> In this case, he can choose between different types of the "right stuff".

I'm going to do it soon.
I read everything that was provided (and I watched every video provided).

As you know, I'll use whatever "the right stuff" is to the local town code
(which they owe me a call back on from the town to confirm).

If I have a choice I'll take the best "the right stuff" which may be
whatever Home Depot has in stock for all I know.

I don't really care if it's two part solvent/glue or one part though, as
that's a level of detail that doesn't matter. Nor the sound deadening.

What's important is the flow rate, but that's likely more a function
of the design (which I will just copy) and the slope (which seems to be
somewhere around 1/4 inch per foot or so.

I don't know if it's 2 inch or 3 inch pipe so I will bring a measuring tape
and measure the circumference when I go there later this week. It may be
anything from 4 inches at the bathrooms to 2 inches based on the videos.

I did learn the elbows for DWV are sloped and never at a 90 degree which is
important for water flow (the old steel ones seem to have a 90 degree T).

Since she has clogs yearly I'll see if I can slightly increase the slope
but I read somewhere that you don't want to increase it too much (for
reasons that make sense) so I'll match or slightly increase the slope at
best.

I'll also make sure there are hangers every four feet. I'm still debating
how much I will replace as I'd like to replace as little as possible given
steel is really nice stuff (it lasted 75 years) and I don't trust plastic.

But I haven't seen a video yet that uses steel as a replacement so it's
going to be the right stuff plastic for that reason alone, but also because
I'd have to measure perfectly to have Home Depot thread the steel.

If I cut anywhere the steel I'll Fernco it to the plastic. I think I'll try
to keep the two Y cleanouts just because they're cemented in (even if it's
just a patch which I don't know if it is yet). But I'll buy two of them
anyway just in case I have to replace them. Since one is outside, the black
plastic may have a problem with the sunlight that steel doesn't have a
problem with. If anything, since that's not the one leaking, I may leave
that one alone if I can.

Is there anything I should add (like a valve or cleanout or disconnect)?
Is Home Depot the best place to get the parts?
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3tZ1z1bd5r
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZbqpfZ1z1bd5r
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/2/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2la
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/3/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2l0

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

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 by: Hiram T Schwantz - Mon, 23 May 2022 20:22 UTC

On Mon, 23 May 2022 06:59:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:23:26 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> > On May 22, 2022, trader_4 wrote
> > (in article<news:a3bd88eb-94f0-49e9...@googlegroups.com>):
> > >> Do they make a square socket to get cleanouts open?
> > >
> > > IDK, if there is one, I've never used it but why do you need to get it out?
> > > It's going to be replaced, isn't it?
> > I'm "worried" about replacing the Y shaped drainouts only because I don't
> > know if they're cemented in or not since they _look_ like they're cemented.
> > https://8upload.com/display/628527f3a88c5/file11.jpg
>
> Without being there only so much we can tell. If you have good access to
> the cleanouts on both sides of the cement block wall, it should be relatively
> easy to knock them out, which is what I would do. It's then a complete fix
> and you don't have to deal with unscrewing old pipe from them, which is
> likely worse, rusted in old plugs that you can't get out, etc. To do this they
> had to make an opening in the block, then they just push some concrete
> in around the pipe when done to close off the outside. Should come out
> with some good whacks from a sledgehammer.
>
>
> >
> > I got a plumber to show up for a "free estimate" who gave the owner a quote
> > for $3800 to replace all the drain pipes in the crawlspace but the owner
> > told me he was there for five minutes and only listened to her explain it.
> >
> > Is it normal for a plumber to not even look at the pipes under the floors?
>
> I would certainly think not, but at that price there is likely enough margin
> that they can just wing it.
>
>
> >
> > Anyway, I can do it for her for whatever the price of the 2-inch pipes are,
> > which I will use whatever is the "right stuff" (I'm presuming ABS DWV but I
> > don't really care as long as it's whatever is the "right stuff" to use).
> >
> > I'll go to Home Depot, probably tomorrow, and buy three sections of 20 foot
> > 2-inch "the right stuff" pipe and a couple of those Y shaped drainouts just
> > in case I can replace them. There's no room to twist them. I can maybe
> > twist the pipe out that goes into them but they must be ~75 years old).
> >
> > The problem I will have isn't going to be the straight drain pipes because
> > I can just cut them with a sawzall or angle grinder with a cutting blade
> > and Fernco them. The plumber said anchors must be every four feet by code.
> >
> > The only problem I'll have is those Y shaped drainouts since I don't know
> > _how_ they put them into the wall. If they're cemented in, I'm not going to
> > be chipping away at her foundation just because I don't want to ruin it.
> >
> > I know how to do PVC but I'll need to google youtube to learn how to glue
> > the ABS DWV if that's "the right stuff". Someone else said I had lots of
> > choices but I don't want choices. I just want to use "the right stuff."
> >
> > I might end up doing what the she said the plumber wanted to do which is
> > cut the pipes off at the bathrooms on one end of the house and just replace
> > everything.
> >
> > The plumbing starts at the kitchen and washer dryer in the garage and then
> > goes downhill down the house (a one-story railroad type) to the two full
> > bathrooms at the other end where it goes 90 degrees to the street about 50
> > or 75 feet away.
> >
> > Do they usually plumb new work forward the way water flows downhill to the
> > bathrooms or do they work uphill from the bathrooms to the kitchen, or
> > doesn't it matter? There are more connections in the bathroom area.
> > Ron, the humblest guy in town.
>
> It's up to you, whichever way works best for you. With multiple things
> coming together into one, I'd probably start at the downhill side and
> work upwards. Say you have two pipes that go into a Y connection.
> I'd rather have the Y secured first, then go work the two incoming runs.

Ron = Arlen Holder - the ****** (fill in) guy in town.

--
Hiram

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: trad...@optonline.net (trader_4)
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 by: trader_4 - Tue, 24 May 2022 13:08 UTC

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 2:14:19 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 23, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:2234e520-fac8-4e1f...@googlegroups.com>):
> > In this case, he can choose between different types of the "right stuff".
> I'm going to do it soon.
> I read everything that was provided (and I watched every video provided).
>
> As you know, I'll use whatever "the right stuff" is to the local town code
> (which they owe me a call back on from the town to confirm).
>
> If I have a choice I'll take the best "the right stuff" which may be
> whatever Home Depot has in stock for all I know.
>
> I don't really care if it's two part solvent/glue or one part though, as
> that's a level of detail that doesn't matter. Nor the sound deadening.
>
> What's important is the flow rate, but that's likely more a function
> of the design (which I will just copy) and the slope (which seems to be
> somewhere around 1/4 inch per foot or so.
>
> I don't know if it's 2 inch or 3 inch pipe so I will bring a measuring tape
> and measure the circumference when I go there later this week. It may be
> anything from 4 inches at the bathrooms to 2 inches based on the videos.
>
> I did learn the elbows for DWV are sloped and never at a 90 degree which is
> important for water flow (the old steel ones seem to have a 90 degree T).
>
> Since she has clogs yearly I'll see if I can slightly increase the slope
> but I read somewhere that you don't want to increase it too much (for
> reasons that make sense) so I'll match or slightly increase the slope at
> best.

Since there is a fixed beginning and end, the average slope is fixed.
The most you can do is even it out if there are some sections with
too little pitch.

>
> I'll also make sure there are hangers every four feet. I'm still debating
> how much I will replace as I'd like to replace as little as possible given
> steel is really nice stuff (it lasted 75 years) and I don't trust plastic.

Good grief, it's exactly the opposite. Galvanized pipes were a disaster,
as you are seeing right now. I'm sure plastic won't last forever either,
but it's a hell of a lot better.

>
> But I haven't seen a video yet that uses steel as a replacement so it's
> going to be the right stuff plastic for that reason alone, but also because
> I'd have to measure perfectly to have Home Depot thread the steel.
>
> If I cut anywhere the steel I'll Fernco it to the plastic. I think I'll try
> to keep the two Y cleanouts just because they're cemented in (even if it's
> just a patch which I don't know if it is yet).

Good luck unscrewing the pipes. And if you don't and instead cut off
and leave some steel, then you just have another failure point coming
in the future, sooner or later.

But I'll buy two of them
> anyway just in case I have to replace them. Since one is outside, the black
> plastic may have a problem with the sunlight that steel doesn't have a
> problem with. If anything, since that's not the one leaking, I may leave
> that one alone if I can.

Put a cover over it if you're worried about that, I wouldn't. If it shows signs
of problems many years from now, someone can unscrew it and put in
another one for $2.

>
> Is there anything I should add (like a valve or cleanout or disconnect)?
> Is Home Depot the best place to get the parts?

IDK check the prices. I'd look at Lowes too.

> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3tZ1z1bd5r
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZbqpfZ1z1bd5r
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/2/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2la
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/3/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2l0
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
Injection-Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 16:32:31 +0000
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Tue, 24 May 2022 16:32 UTC

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 2:14:19 PM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On May 23, 2022, Marilyn Manson wrote
> (in article<news:2234e520-fac8-4e1f...@googlegroups.com>):
> > In this case, he can choose between different types of the "right stuff".
> I'm going to do it soon.
> I read everything that was provided (and I watched every video provided).
>
> As you know, I'll use whatever "the right stuff" is to the local town code
> (which they owe me a call back on from the town to confirm).
>
> If I have a choice I'll take the best "the right stuff" which may be
> whatever Home Depot has in stock for all I know.
>
> I don't really care if it's two part solvent/glue or one part though, as
> that's a level of detail that doesn't matter. Nor the sound deadening.
>
> What's important is the flow rate, but that's likely more a function
> of the design (which I will just copy) and the slope (which seems to be
> somewhere around 1/4 inch per foot or so.
>
> I don't know if it's 2 inch or 3 inch pipe so I will bring a measuring tape
> and measure the circumference when I go there later this week. It may be
> anything from 4 inches at the bathrooms to 2 inches based on the videos.
>
> I did learn the elbows for DWV are sloped and never at a 90 degree which is
> important for water flow (the old steel ones seem to have a 90 degree T).
>
> Since she has clogs yearly I'll see if I can slightly increase the slope
> but I read somewhere that you don't want to increase it too much (for
> reasons that make sense) so I'll match or slightly increase the slope at
> best.
>
> I'll also make sure there are hangers every four feet. I'm still debating
> how much I will replace as I'd like to replace as little as possible given
> steel is really nice stuff (it lasted 75 years) and I don't trust plastic..
>
> But I haven't seen a video yet that uses steel as a replacement so it's
> going to be the right stuff plastic for that reason alone, but also because
> I'd have to measure perfectly to have Home Depot thread the steel.
>
> If I cut anywhere the steel I'll Fernco it to the plastic. I think I'll try
> to keep the two Y cleanouts just because they're cemented in (even if it's
> just a patch which I don't know if it is yet). But I'll buy two of them
> anyway just in case I have to replace them. Since one is outside, the black
> plastic may have a problem with the sunlight that steel doesn't have a
> problem with. If anything, since that's not the one leaking, I may leave
> that one alone if I can.
>
> Is there anything I should add (like a valve or cleanout or disconnect)?
> Is Home Depot the best place to get the parts?
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3tZ1z1bd5r
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings/DWV/N-5yc1vZbqpfZ1z1bd5r
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/2/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2la
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Fittings-PVC-Fittings/3/N-5yc1vZ1z18i3xZ1z0u2l0

Consider a plumbing supply house, such as where contractors
shop. For the occasional fitting, I don’t mind shopping at a
home center or hardware store. For bigger jobs, both plumbing
and electrical, I prefer the supply houses. The main disadvantage
is that you need to know what you need as there isn’t any browsing.
Some places (or staff) are more open to helping out the DIY’ers
than others. Of course, the home center’s rarely have anyone who
knows what they are doing either, so you kind of need to know
what you need when shopping there too.

The supply houses have fittings and options that a home center
won’t, so explaining what you want to do may open possibilities
that you hadn’t considered.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 01:08:53 -0800
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 by: RonTheGuy - Wed, 25 May 2022 09:08 UTC

Marilyn Manson wrote:

> The supply houses have fittings and options that a home center
> won't, so explaining what you want to do may open possibilities
> that you hadn't considered.

I cut out most of the bad steel pipe today but had to stop because I didn't
know there was a long 1-1/2 inch steel vent pipe going up, presumably
through the roof (although it's not apparently attached to the roof vent).

The 1-1/2 inch steel vertical vent pipe weighs a ton. And it's something
like 20 feet long (or whatever).

How is a 20 foot long vertical 1-1.2 inch steel vent pipe removed?
https://8upload.com/image/628df14a830cd/file16.jpg

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair

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Subject: Re: Need ideas for my first washing machine drain pipe plumbing repair
From: comawhit...@gmail.com (Marilyn Manson)
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 by: Marilyn Manson - Wed, 25 May 2022 12:49 UTC

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 5:08:37 AM UTC-4, RonTheGuy wrote:
> Marilyn Manson wrote:
>
> > The supply houses have fittings and options that a home center
> > won't, so explaining what you want to do may open possibilities
> > that you hadn't considered.
> I cut out most of the bad steel pipe today but had to stop because I didn't
> know there was a long 1-1/2 inch steel vent pipe going up, presumably
> through the roof (although it's not apparently attached to the roof vent).
>
> The 1-1/2 inch steel vertical vent pipe weighs a ton. And it's something
> like 20 feet long (or whatever).
>
> How is a 20 foot long vertical 1-1.2 inch steel vent pipe removed?
> https://8upload.com/image/628df14a830cd/file16.jpg
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

"Presumably through the roof" and "although it's not apparently attached
to the roof vent"

IOW, you don't know where it goes and you don't know what it's for.

Keep in mind that we are not on site, nor do we know exactly what you have
done so far. Therefore my first question is this:

Did you cut the bottom of that pipe or did you find in it's present condition,
just hanging there with the bottom not attached to anything?

If it's not attached to anything and you don't know what it's for, why do you
feel that you need to remove it?

Second question: Have you looked on the roof to see if it comes out? There
could be more than one vent.

Another option is to call a plumber and have them scope the pipe to see where
it goes. (I've got videos of my main drain, down through the roof vent and all the
way out to the street.)

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