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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: Turning the door invisible

SubjectAuthor
* Turning the door invisiblemike
+* Turning the door invisibleSpalls Hurgenson
|`- Turning the door invisibleJohn
`- Turning the door invisiblegbbgu

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Re: Turning the door invisible

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Subject: Re: Turning the door invisible
From: mross...@gmail.com (mike)
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 by: mike - Sat, 12 Aug 2023 04:00 UTC

It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion. You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be adjudicated consistently.

Re: Turning the door invisible

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Turning the door invisible
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:13:15 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:13 UTC

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT), mike <mrosskne@gmail.com>
wrote:

>It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion.
>You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means
>to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities
>to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be
>adjudicated consistently.

How fun to revive a twenty-two year old debate!
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.dnd/c/7QYF7v2NUlc if you
want to catch up ;-)

Anyway, it all depends on the edition you're playing. If we go by RAW
and look at the spell descriptions in the various Player Handbooks:

- OD&D (White Box) says "a person or thing"

- D&D Basic (Holmes, Moldvay, BECMI, Cyclopedia) had an effect on "one
creature or object" ("any person or object" in Holmes)

- AD&D 1st & 2nd Edition specify the area of effect is "1 creature".

- D&D 3rd Edition also targets the spell at a 'creature'

- 3.5 Edition specifies "1 creature or object"

- 4th Edition says "You or one creature".

- 5th Edition also specifies "creature" (the number is variable).

So if you are playing OD&D, D&D Basic, or 3.5th Edition, your spell
can affect the door. Otherwise, the spell is ineffective because it
only affects creatures.

Well, unless the door is alive, I suppose. And, strangely, when cast
on a creature it DOES affect anything they are wearing or carrying.
Still, most editions are fairly specific that the spell only works on
living things, and not inanimate objects.

But if you happen to be playing the appropriate edition and the spell
does work, you should be able to see through the door. Arguably there
are spells in the other editions that can make objects invisible, but
these are not the same thing as the 2nd level spell the players in
question were using.

Re: Turning the door invisible

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From: joh...@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net (John)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Turning the door invisible
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:55:06 +0000
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 by: John - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:55 UTC

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT), mike <mrosskne@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion.
>>You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means
>>to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities
>>to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be
>>adjudicated consistently.
>
> How fun to revive a twenty-two year old debate!
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.dnd/c/7QYF7v2NUlc if you
> want to catch up ;-)
>
>
> Anyway, it all depends on the edition you're playing. If we go by RAW
> and look at the spell descriptions in the various Player Handbooks:
>
> - OD&D (White Box) says "a person or thing"
>
> - D&D Basic (Holmes, Moldvay, BECMI, Cyclopedia) had an effect on "one
> creature or object" ("any person or object" in Holmes)
>
> - AD&D 1st & 2nd Edition specify the area of effect is "1 creature".
>
> - D&D 3rd Edition also targets the spell at a 'creature'
>
> - 3.5 Edition specifies "1 creature or object"
>
> - 4th Edition says "You or one creature".
>
> - 5th Edition also specifies "creature" (the number is variable).
>
> So if you are playing OD&D, D&D Basic, or 3.5th Edition, your spell
> can affect the door. Otherwise, the spell is ineffective because it
> only affects creatures.

It seems that for the other editions, the spell can be used as a mimic
detector in a pinch.

john

Re: Turning the door invisible

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Subject: Re: Turning the door invisible
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 by: gbbgu - Mon, 14 Aug 2023 04:52 UTC

On 12 Aug 2023, mike wrote:

> It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion. You can see through
> invisible objects. That's what it means to be invisible. Any other
> interpretation adds capabilities to the spell that don't exist in the rules,
> and can't be adjudicated consistently.

I wouldn't have a problem with my players doing this, I think it's pretty
creative.

I would rule the door becomes see-through and not create an illusion based on
the expectation of what was in the room, but don't forget that any monsters
inside the room can now see out through the (currently solid but weaker than
you hopped) door...

--
gbbgu


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: Turning the door invisible

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