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interests / rec.gardens / Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

SubjectAuthor
* Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage rootsJohn Robertson
`* Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not toDavid E. Ross
 +- Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage rootsJohn Robertson
 `* Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage rootsLeont
  `- Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not toDavid E. Ross

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Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

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From: spa...@flippers.com (John Robertson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:14:31 -0600
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 by: John Robertson - Thu, 1 Apr 2021 02:14 UTC

I am a homeowner without botany experience or knowledge.
I try to use logical "common sense" when/if/where I can be sensible.

I want to grow more elderberries (I have one adult elderberry bush only).

Googling how to propagate elderberry bushes I find this quote:
"Do not fertilize for the first year so as not to damage roots."
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/transplant-elderberry-45396.html

If fertilizing is good for plants how can fertilizing in the
first year be damaging to the plants?

They didn't say "too much" fertilizer.
They said not to fertilize transplanted plants (in the first year).
And yet they said to put compost into the hole (isn't that fertilizer?).

Does that specific fertilizer advice from that site make any sense to you?
If so, can you explain the logic to me?
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)

Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

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From: not...@not_there.invalid (David E. Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to
damage roots
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:04:51 -0700
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 by: David E. Ross - Thu, 1 Apr 2021 03:04 UTC

On 3/31/2021 7:14 PM, John Robertson wrote:
> I am a homeowner without botany experience or knowledge.
> I try to use logical "common sense" when/if/where I can be sensible.
>
> I want to grow more elderberries (I have one adult elderberry bush only).
>
> Googling how to propagate elderberry bushes I find this quote:
> "Do not fertilize for the first year so as not to damage roots."
> https://homeguides.sfgate.com/transplant-elderberry-45396.html
>
> If fertilizing is good for plants how can fertilizing in the
> first year be damaging to the plants?
>
> They didn't say "too much" fertilizer.
> They said not to fertilize transplanted plants (in the first year).
> And yet they said to put compost into the hole (isn't that fertilizer?).
>
> Does that specific fertilizer advice from that site make any sense to you?
> If so, can you explain the logic to me?
>

I do not fertilize a newly planted rose bush the first year it is in the
ground. Fertilizer will generally promote the growth of foliage.
However, the roots have been disturbed and might not recover
sufficiently to support (e.g., provide sufficient moisture) to support
abundant foliage during warm weather. Fertilizer might also promote
flowering, which stresses the plant while it is still trying to become
established. All this might also be applicable to elderberry.

I make an exception to this only if the rose bush has flowers despite
not being fed. Only then I give it a very light feeding.

For most woody plants, withholding fertilizer in the first year tends to
be a good practice. However, I do put bone meal or superphosphate in
the planting hole and then a small amount of soil to separate the new
roots from the phosphorus. Phosphorus does not readily dissolve and
thus needs to be placed where the roots will find it.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com>

While a "vaccination passport" to prove someone has been
vaccinated against COVID-19 seems to be a good idea, most
concepts involve smart phones. What about those of us
who have been vaccinated but do not have a smart phone?

Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

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From: spa...@flippers.com (John Robertson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:39:19 -0600
Organization: Mixmin
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 by: John Robertson - Thu, 1 Apr 2021 03:39 UTC

On 2021/03/31 9:4 pm, David E. Ross wrote:

> I do not fertilize a newly planted rose bush the first year it is in the
> ground. Fertilizer will generally promote the growth of foliage.
> However, the roots have been disturbed and might not recover
> sufficiently to support (e.g., provide sufficient moisture) to support
> abundant foliage during warm weather. Fertilizer might also promote
> flowering, which stresses the plant while it is still trying to become
> established. All this might also be applicable to elderberry.
>
> I make an exception to this only if the rose bush has flowers despite
> not being fed. Only then I give it a very light feeding.
>
> For most woody plants, withholding fertilizer in the first year tends to
> be a good practice. However, I do put bone meal or superphosphate in
> the planting hole and then a small amount of soil to separate the new
> roots from the phosphorus. Phosphorus does not readily dissolve and
> thus needs to be placed where the roots will find it.

Thanks for all that good advice.
You sound like you have experience.

I did find this which contradicts what I first found.
So it looks like it is a bit more technical than I at first knew it to be.

https://gardenerspath.com/plants/fruit/grow-elderberries/
"The Horticulture Department at Cornell also recommends that you apply 1/8
pound of ammonium nitrate (or 0.5 lbs. 10-10-10) for each year of the
plant's age, up to one pound per plant (or up to 4 lbs. 10-10-10). This
should be done in the spring every year after its initial planting.

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)

Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

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 by: Leont - Fri, 12 Aug 2022 15:32 UTC

> What are your thoughts? You can share without an account
I do same with fertilizers. Some time ago I used it with a newly planted and it was not effective at all

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/garden/do-not-fertilize-elderberry-for-the-first-year-so-as-not-to-3108717-.htm

Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to damage roots

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From: nob...@notme.invalid (David E. Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do not fertilize elderberry for the first year so as not to
damage roots
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:44:08 -0700
Organization: I am @ David at rossde dot com.
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 by: David E. Ross - Fri, 12 Aug 2022 17:44 UTC

On 8/12/2022 8:32 AM, Leont wrote:
>> What are your thoughts? You can share without an account
> I do same with fertilizers. Some time ago I used it with a newly planted and it was not effective at all
>

For many plants in my climate, October is the prime month for planting.
Exceptions include subtropicals and plants that are obtained bare-root,
which are planted in the spring.

When planting, I put some bone meal or superphosphate in the bottom of
the planting hole and cover it with a little soil. I do that because
phosphorus does not readily dissolve and thus must be placed where roots
will find it. Phosphorus promotes flowering, fruiting, and root growth.

On the other hand, I do not use a nitrogen-containing fertilizer until
late spring after an autumn planting. For plantings at other times of
the year, I generally do not feed for a year. Nitrogen promotes
foliage, which places a demand for moisture from disturbed roots. The
plants need to develop a good root structure before using a fertilizer
that creates a stress on those roots. Yes, the result might be a plant
that "sulks" for a year; but it will be more healthy in the long term.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html>
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

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