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Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder

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Subject: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder
From: msar...@gmail.com (Matthew G. Saroff)
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by: Matthew G. Saroff - Tue, 6 Sep 2022 22:21 UTC

When I write about Democratic Party politics, I frequently express mention of the senior elements of the party as follows, "The Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment)," as a way of mocking folks who deny its existence.

Someone made the comment online, "The Democratic Party Establishment Delenda Est," an obvious reference to Cato's comments on Carthage.

I have been casting about for the proper translation of, "Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment) must be destroyed."

Google translate gives, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla constitutio factionis democraticae) delenda est," which appears to be a pretty awful translation.

After burying my nose in an online Latin dictionary, I got, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which seems better, but is probably very wrong.

One of the reader(s) of my blog (link below) offered the benefit of 1 year of Latin and suggested, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla est institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which appears to be the best translation yet.

In addition to realizing that I am basically recreating a scene in Life of Brian, I would like to get the translation correct.

https://40yrs.blogspot.com/2022/09/need-help-with-latin.html

Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 10:23:06 +0100
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by: Ed Cryer - Wed, 7 Sep 2022 09:23 UTC

Matthew G. Saroff wrote:
> When I write about Democratic Party politics, I frequently express mention of the senior elements of the party as follows, "The Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment)," as a way of mocking folks who deny its existence.
>
> Someone made the comment online, "The Democratic Party Establishment Delenda Est," an obvious reference to Cato's comments on Carthage.
>
> I have been casting about for the proper translation of, "Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment) must be destroyed."
>
> Google translate gives, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla constitutio factionis democraticae) delenda est," which appears to be a pretty awful translation.
>
> After burying my nose in an online Latin dictionary, I got, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which seems better, but is probably very wrong.
>
> One of the reader(s) of my blog (link below) offered the benefit of 1 year of Latin and suggested, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla est institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which appears to be the best translation yet.
>
> In addition to realizing that I am basically recreating a scene in Life of Brian, I would like to get the translation correct.
>
>
> https://40yrs.blogspot.com/2022/09/need-help-with-latin.html

"Establishment" seems to cover a whole ground of meaning; setting up,
infrastructure, existence. At all events, "instauratio" won't do; that
means "renewal" or "recreation".
I guess you need a general umbrella term, although it might be hard to
argue with a metaphysician that such doesn't exist.

Res Factionis Democraticae (nulla est RFD) delenda est.

I'm a simple soul. When the Romans got around to destroying Carthage
they enslaved the populace, took the city apart brick by brick and then
ploughed salt into the ground. Rather unwoke, but it happened. These
days Cato might have merely said "Factio Democratica delenda est";
without recourse to semantics or morality.

Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder

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Subject: Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder
From: msar...@gmail.com (Matthew G. Saroff)
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by: Matthew G. Saroff - Wed, 7 Sep 2022 14:06 UTC

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 5:24:27 AM UTC-4, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Matthew G. Saroff wrote:
> > When I write about Democratic Party politics, I frequently express mention of the senior elements of the party as follows, "The Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment)," as a way of mocking folks who deny its existence.
> >
> > Someone made the comment online, "The Democratic Party Establishment Delenda Est," an obvious reference to Cato's comments on Carthage.
> >
> > I have been casting about for the proper translation of, "Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment) must be destroyed."
> >
> > Google translate gives, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla constitutio factionis democraticae) delenda est," which appears to be a pretty awful translation.
> >
> > After burying my nose in an online Latin dictionary, I got, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which seems better, but is probably very wrong.
> >
> > One of the reader(s) of my blog (link below) offered the benefit of 1 year of Latin and suggested, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla est institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which appears to be the best translation yet.
> >
> > In addition to realizing that I am basically recreating a scene in Life of Brian, I would like to get the translation correct.
> >
> >
> > https://40yrs.blogspot.com/2022/09/need-help-with-latin.html
> "Establishment" seems to cover a whole ground of meaning; setting up,
> infrastructure, existence. At all events, "instauratio" won't do; that
> means "renewal" or "recreation".
> I guess you need a general umbrella term, although it might be hard to
> argue with a metaphysician that such doesn't exist.
>
> Res Factionis Democraticae (nulla est RFD) delenda est.
>
> I'm a simple soul. When the Romans got around to destroying Carthage
> they enslaved the populace, took the city apart brick by brick and then
> ploughed salt into the ground. Rather unwoke, but it happened. These
> days Cato might have merely said "Factio Democratica delenda est";
> without recourse to semantics or morality.
>
> Ed
Thanks.

Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder

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Subject: Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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by: henh...@gmail.com - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:26 UTC

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 2:24:27 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Matthew G. Saroff wrote:
> > When I write about Democratic Party politics, I frequently express mention of the senior elements of the party as follows, "The Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment)," as a way of mocking folks who deny its existence.
> >
> > Someone made the comment online, "The Democratic Party Establishment Delenda Est," an obvious reference to Cato's comments on Carthage.
> >
> > I have been casting about for the proper translation of, "Democratic Party establishment (There is no Democratic Party establishment) must be destroyed."
> >
> > Google translate gives, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla constitutio factionis democraticae) delenda est," which appears to be a pretty awful translation.
> >
> > After burying my nose in an online Latin dictionary, I got, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which seems better, but is probably very wrong.
> >
> > One of the reader(s) of my blog (link below) offered the benefit of 1 year of Latin and suggested, "Factio democratica instauratio (Nulla est institut factionis democratica) delenda est," which appears to be the best translation yet.
> >
> > In addition to realizing that I am basically recreating a scene in Life of Brian, I would like to get the translation correct.
> >
> >
> > https://40yrs.blogspot.com/2022/09/need-help-with-latin.html
> "Establishment" seems to cover a whole ground of meaning; setting up,
> infrastructure, existence. At all events, "instauratio" won't do; that
> means "renewal" or "recreation".
> I guess you need a general umbrella term, although it might be hard to
> argue with a metaphysician that such doesn't exist.
>
> Res Factionis Democraticae (nulla est RFD) delenda est.
>
> I'm a simple soul. When the Romans got around to destroying Carthage
> they enslaved the populace, took the city apart brick by brick and then
> ploughed salt into the ground. Rather unwoke, but it happened. These
> days Cato might have merely said "Factio Democratica delenda est";
> without recourse to semantics or morality.
>
> Ed

--- Rather unwoke, but it happened. <---------- that's so funny !!!

could you give an example (or two) of something that seems
akin to a [Political Correctness Debate] in the classical texts ?

Subject	Author
Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder	Matthew G. Saroff
Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder	Ed Cryer
Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder	Matthew G. Saroff
Re: Need a Translation Based on Cato the Elder	henh...@gmail.com