Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"Not only is God dead, but just try to find a plumber on weekends." -- Woody Allen


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / [Des Moines Register] Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

SubjectAuthor
* [Des Moines Register] Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his kyonshi
`* Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa ?game master? sues Texas company over control of Spalls Hurgenson
 `* Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over control of hikyonshi
  `- Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over control of hiSpalls Hurgenson

1
[Des Moines Register] Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

<us9a59$3vue7$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=257&group=rec.games.frp.dnd#257

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc rec.games.frp.dnd
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!campaignwiki.org!.POSTED.staticline-31-183-178-178.toya.net.pl!not-for-mail
From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: [Des_Moines_Register]_Iowa_‘game_master
’_sues_Texas_company_over_control_of_his_role-playing_gam
e
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:40:23 +0100
Organization: Campaign Wiki
Message-ID: <us9a59$3vue7$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 08:40:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: sibirocobombus.campaignwiki; posting-host="staticline-31-183-178-178.toya.net.pl:31.183.178.178";
logging-data="4192711"; mail-complaints-to="alex@alexschroeder.ch"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:XfvXR1ggZ26kEDk5MGCfLPoqzxA= sha256:9t90Q6bULYuMhexrFqv3rKpMGJtLtyAQB/KtF46rvyI=
sha1:L4hLch9ZrNY29mws2AQujqrQsYc= sha256:o2ENks/axg/CxC6wXKL8GzLNLrFi35Ag6k2uuoOEszk=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: kyonshi - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 08:40 UTC

Source:
https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2024/03/02/ankeny-man-files-suit-over-control-of-his-role-playing-game/72796356007/

Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game
Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch

A “certified therapeutic game master” from Iowa is suing a Texas company
for libel, slander and copyright infringement over a planned Dungeons &
Dragons spinoff.

Shawn Thomas and his Ankeny company Tabletop Adventure are suing Geek
Therapeutics and its founder, Dr. Anthony Bean, a licensed psychologist,
in U.S. District Court for Southern District of Iowa.

The lawsuit revolves around Thomas’ development of a role-playing
tabletop game called Realms of Kymoria. The lawsuit claims that players
of the game inhabit a fictional world that provides an inclusive and
welcoming environment for all types of individuals.

Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch

A “certified therapeutic game master” from Iowa is suing a Texas company
for libel, slander and copyright infringement over a planned Dungeons &
Dragons spinoff.

Shawn Thomas and his Ankeny company Tabletop Adventure are suing Geek
Therapeutics and its founder, Dr. Anthony Bean, a licensed psychologist,
in U.S. District Court for Southern District of Iowa.

The lawsuit revolves around Thomas’ development of a role-playing
tabletop game called Realms of Kymoria. The lawsuit claims that players
of the game inhabit a fictional world that provides an inclusive and
welcoming environment for all types of individuals.

More: How Dungeons & Dragons helped me come out

Thomas alleges that in creating Realms of Kymoria, he produced graphical
maps, stories in the form of written prose, and graphic depictions of
various characters within those stories. In 2021, he created a limited
liability company, Tabletop Adventure, to hold the copyrights,
trademarks, and other rights associated with the game.

That same year, the lawsuit alleges, Thomas acquired his “therapeutic
game master certification” from Geek Therapeutics, signaling his ability
to host role-playing games in therapeutic environments. Soon thereafter,
Thomas and Bean allegedly began discussing a potential licensing
agreement whereby Geek Therapeutics would manufacture, market, and
distribute Realms of Kymoria.
Clash over Dungeons & Dragons change leads to lawsuit

Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch

A “certified therapeutic game master” from Iowa is suing a Texas company
for libel, slander and copyright infringement over a planned Dungeons &
Dragons spinoff.

Shawn Thomas and his Ankeny company Tabletop Adventure are suing Geek
Therapeutics and its founder, Dr. Anthony Bean, a licensed psychologist,
in U.S. District Court for Southern District of Iowa.

The lawsuit revolves around Thomas’ development of a role-playing
tabletop game called Realms of Kymoria. The lawsuit claims that players
of the game inhabit a fictional world that provides an inclusive and
welcoming environment for all types of individuals.

More: How Dungeons & Dragons helped me come out

Thomas alleges that in creating Realms of Kymoria, he produced graphical
maps, stories in the form of written prose, and graphic depictions of
various characters within those stories. In 2021, he created a limited
liability company, Tabletop Adventure, to hold the copyrights,
trademarks, and other rights associated with the game.

That same year, the lawsuit alleges, Thomas acquired his “therapeutic
game master certification” from Geek Therapeutics, signaling his ability
to host role-playing games in therapeutic environments. Soon thereafter,
Thomas and Bean allegedly began discussing a potential licensing
agreement whereby Geek Therapeutics would manufacture, market, and
distribute Realms of Kymoria.
Clash over Dungeons & Dragons change leads to lawsuit

The lawsuit alleges Thomas was concerned about losing control of the
intellectual property rights associated with the game and that Bean
agreed all such rights would remain with Thomas.

Negotiations continued through December 2022, when it was learned that a
California company called Wizards of the Coast was planning major
changes in its licensing agreements that allow third parties to create
games using rules that are compatible with its popular Dungeons &
Dragons role-playing game.

Among the planned changes was one that would grant to Wizards of the
Coast a perpetual royalty-free license to use the officially licensed
third-party games for any purpose. The lawsuit claims this plan
triggered “an uproar in the tabletop gaming community” because many game
developers had created business models centered on their compatibility
with Dungeons & Dragons rules.
Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch

A “certified therapeutic game master” from Iowa is suing a Texas company
for libel, slander and copyright infringement over a planned Dungeons &
Dragons spinoff.

Shawn Thomas and his Ankeny company Tabletop Adventure are suing Geek
Therapeutics and its founder, Dr. Anthony Bean, a licensed psychologist,
in U.S. District Court for Southern District of Iowa.

The lawsuit revolves around Thomas’ development of a role-playing
tabletop game called Realms of Kymoria. The lawsuit claims that players
of the game inhabit a fictional world that provides an inclusive and
welcoming environment for all types of individuals.

More: How Dungeons & Dragons helped me come out

Thomas alleges that in creating Realms of Kymoria, he produced graphical
maps, stories in the form of written prose, and graphic depictions of
various characters within those stories. In 2021, he created a limited
liability company, Tabletop Adventure, to hold the copyrights,
trademarks, and other rights associated with the game.

That same year, the lawsuit alleges, Thomas acquired his “therapeutic
game master certification” from Geek Therapeutics, signaling his ability
to host role-playing games in therapeutic environments. Soon thereafter,
Thomas and Bean allegedly began discussing a potential licensing
agreement whereby Geek Therapeutics would manufacture, market, and
distribute Realms of Kymoria.
Clash over Dungeons & Dragons change leads to lawsuit

The lawsuit alleges Thomas was concerned about losing control of the
intellectual property rights associated with the game and that Bean
agreed all such rights would remain with Thomas.

Negotiations continued through December 2022, when it was learned that a
California company called Wizards of the Coast was planning major
changes in its licensing agreements that allow third parties to create
games using rules that are compatible with its popular Dungeons &
Dragons role-playing game.

Among the planned changes was one that would grant to Wizards of the
Coast a perpetual royalty-free license to use the officially licensed
third-party games for any purpose. The lawsuit claims this plan
triggered “an uproar in the tabletop gaming community” because many game
developers had created business models centered on their compatibility
with Dungeons & Dragons rules.

More: Toymakers tap into growing older adult market for
brain-challenging games

Thomas was among the concerned developers because he had intended to
make Realms of Kymoria compatible with Dungeons & Dragons, but was
opposed to the Wizards of the Coast licensing arrangement, according to
the lawsuit.

Geek Therapeutics, however, opted to pursue compatibility and it moved
forward with its marketing plans for Realms of Kymoria. Despite the
alleged lack of a finalized licensing agreement between Thomas and the
Texas company, Geek Therapeutics launched a Kickstarter crowd-funding
campaign to get Realms of Kymoria to market. In April 2023, Thomas
allegedly demanded that Geek Therapeutics immediately cease all efforts
to reproduce and distribute his game.

According to the lawsuit, Geek Therapeutics announced, earlier this
month, plans to distribute and sell the game through its Kickstarter
campaign. “Hundreds of people have pre-registered” to provide support
for the game, the lawsuit claims, and various websites and merchandise
have been created to promote and sell the game.

In addition to an injunction, Thomas’ lawsuit seeks damages for
copyright infringement as well as libel and slander, with Thomas
alleging the defendants sent its Kickstart backers a supportive email
that falsely claimed to be from him.

The defendants have yet to file a response to the lawsuit.

Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa ?game master? sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

<ga3hui1uns039ep6782n53armkcd4g4562@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=258&group=rec.games.frp.dnd#258

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2024 15:53:20 +0000
From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa ???game master??? sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2024 10:53:20 -0500
Message-ID: <ga3hui1uns039ep6782n53armkcd4g4562@4ax.com>
References: <us9a59$3vue7$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 44
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-km1/qD2jzMIOz2rus9uMT/Ap0Gulg15Y+zpXaZ//1N3un/q8yRKVluJq/6jDhFPsYD7145T/o2aqdx6!E2kzyg/+LbXsMd6Bz3PvUtZTum8BdaUh9BaBDuBflGFUSBVeFDmgT9T45bQxxr2mWSqq42k=
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Received-Bytes: 2737
 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 15:53 UTC

On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:40:23 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>Source:
>https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2024/03/02/ankeny-man-files-suit-over-control-of-his-role-playing-game/72796356007/
>
>Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game
>Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch

TIL that you can get a 'therapeutic game master certification'. To
think, all these years I've been doing as an amateur what I could have
been doing professionally.

Then again, I'm not sure my campaigns would count as 'therapeutic'.
Sure, your characters will (probably) survive, but if they play in my
campaigns, they're gonna go through the wringer. ;-)

As for the story itself, who knows? Thomas partnered with Geek
Therapeutics to sell his game (prompted by fears of WOTC's proposed -
and later backtracked - licensing changes). Geek Therapeutics started
a kickstarter to promote and sell the game. Now Thomas says they
aren't allowed to do that.

Presumably there's a contract somewhere and the outcome will hinge on
what that contract says. If there's not, both sides are idiots.

Though, honestly, I'd have given a lot of thought before going into
any business that sells 'game master certifications', therapeutic or
otherwise. I'm not saying that they're scammers, but it sure looks
skeevy.

That said, for only a $250 USD enrollment fee (and $1000 per lesson) I
am now offering to make you a Licensed RPG Dice Roller, complete with
certificate. Email me for details!*

* please don't.

Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

<usa593$3krf$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=259&group=rec.games.frp.dnd#259

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!campaignwiki.org!.POSTED.staticline-31-183-178-178.toya.net.pl!not-for-mail
From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over
control of his role-playing game
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 17:23:12 +0100
Organization: Campaign Wiki
Message-ID: <usa593$3krf$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>
References: <us9a59$3vue7$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>
<ga3hui1uns039ep6782n53armkcd4g4562@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 16:23:00 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: sibirocobombus.campaignwiki; posting-host="staticline-31-183-178-178.toya.net.pl:31.183.178.178";
logging-data="119663"; mail-complaints-to="alex@alexschroeder.ch"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:kxh17nRi++sV35KbyVc6zZPRwj4= sha256:ezcMAe5X1YXqI+tpK9wiJfSQdfsOFKcoWizU2gpt0cw=
sha1:R79QbwYxQACdixV7Xsqe2xet+7M= sha256:BmskkTzgsIpzKCFZ8L3QHE3j0RjoJ6ugW0XMjhBh7ZI=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <ga3hui1uns039ep6782n53armkcd4g4562@4ax.com>
 by: kyonshi - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 16:23 UTC

On 3/6/2024 4:53 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:40:23 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Source:
>> https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2024/03/02/ankeny-man-files-suit-over-control-of-his-role-playing-game/72796356007/
>>
>> Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game
>> Clark Kauffman | Iowa Capital Dispatch
>
>
> TIL that you can get a 'therapeutic game master certification'. To
> think, all these years I've been doing as an amateur what I could have
> been doing professionally.
>
> Then again, I'm not sure my campaigns would count as 'therapeutic'.
> Sure, your characters will (probably) survive, but if they play in my
> campaigns, they're gonna go through the wringer. ;-)
>
> As for the story itself, who knows? Thomas partnered with Geek
> Therapeutics to sell his game (prompted by fears of WOTC's proposed -
> and later backtracked - licensing changes). Geek Therapeutics started
> a kickstarter to promote and sell the game. Now Thomas says they
> aren't allowed to do that.
>
> Presumably there's a contract somewhere and the outcome will hinge on
> what that contract says. If there's not, both sides are idiots.

The problem is I think in general that according to one side the
contract says something different than what the other side believes.
Wouldn't surprise me if the contract just isn't saying much about the
issue because when they made it they never thought it would come up.
And, to be fair, it's also hinging on what WotC was trying to do during
the OGL fiasco. After all lots of people had their rug pulled out from
under them during that debacle.

>
> Though, honestly, I'd have given a lot of thought before going into
> any business that sells 'game master certifications', therapeutic or
> otherwise. I'm not saying that they're scammers, but it sure looks
> skeevy.
>
> That said, for only a $250 USD enrollment fee (and $1000 per lesson) I
> am now offering to make you a Licensed RPG Dice Roller, complete with
> certificate. Email me for details!*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * please don't.
>
>

Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

<2rhjui1e5sc4pa23o1iea4kha03q9v2gc7@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=260&group=rec.games.frp.dnd#260

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.22.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2024 14:34:41 +0000
From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Des Moines Register] Iowa game master sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2024 09:34:40 -0500
Message-ID: <2rhjui1e5sc4pa23o1iea4kha03q9v2gc7@4ax.com>
References: <us9a59$3vue7$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki> <ga3hui1uns039ep6782n53armkcd4g4562@4ax.com> <usa593$3krf$1@sibirocobombus.campaignwiki>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 53
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-TXHuGpnA/Uj4nCC7wgUrzwFCWd8oW7ihi+tCgivGcFcHuXyl08gQTiSK4nvz7TFlEZOSe55g9ifh/Pe!P1DzUK6YJ7gwITKMFvSiGGDmaQcCuD+GtRy8g37np0IQ/2+oN63j2gS473EtOBnc4zBwipw=
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 7 Mar 2024 14:34 UTC

On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 17:23:12 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/6/2024 4:53 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:40:23 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Source:
>>> https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2024/03/02/ankeny-man-files-suit-over-control-of-his-role-playing-game/72796356007/

>
>The problem is I think in general that according to one side the
>contract says something different than what the other side believes.
>Wouldn't surprise me if the contract just isn't saying much about the
>issue because when they made it they never thought it would come up.
>And, to be fair, it's also hinging on what WotC was trying to do during
>the OGL fiasco. After all lots of people had their rug pulled out from
>under them during that debacle.

As for the said dispute, well, yeah... obviously both sides have
differing interpretations of what the contract says. That's what a
contract dispute is.

The WOTC licensing debacle is incidental to the actual case. It's the
nominal reason for the partnership between Thomas and Geek
Therapeutics ("Oh no, WOTC is taking away my D&Ds!!!"), but its
irrelevant to the case itself.

Of course, Thomas says there was no /finalized/ licensing agreement'
between the two parties, but he also says that there was /some/
agreement between the two parties (including Geek Therapeutics (GT)
saying ultimate control of the IP would remain with Thomas). The best
(and most easily enforcable) contracts are written, but 'a word and a
handshake' are also legally valid... if harder to defend by either
side. I can well imagine that Thomas and GT leaving a meeting, with
Thomas saying something like, "Let's go forward with this" (meaning,
'I am interested in continuing this relationship') but GT hearing 'I
am in full agreement with your plan, please start to put it into
action'). So now GT feels it is the aggrevied party because it put
effort into making the website and kickstarter only for Thomas to pull
out later.

Contracts. It's all about the contracts and - barring one existing -
what was said and written down beforehand. Without doing more research
(for instance, is GT a significant company that should know about the
importance of contracts or just another 'guy-in-a-garage' like
Thomas?) it's hard to say who is in the right. But ultimately, it's
not really that interesting a case. At least, not to me. YMMV ;-)


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / [Des Moines Register] Iowa ‘game master’ sues Texas company over control of his role-playing game

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor