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interests / alt.language.latin / Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

SubjectAuthor
* Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribushenh...@gmail.com
`* Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribusEd Cryer
 `* Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribushenh...@gmail.com
  +* Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribusEd Cryer
  |`* Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribusCDB
  | `* Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribusBtraven
  |  `- Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribusBtraven
  `- Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribushenh...@gmail.com

1
Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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Subject: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:28 UTC

> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

=== An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds

i don't get the -US ending...

angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,

pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 15:53:21 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:53 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
>
>
> === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
>
>
>
> i don't get the -US ending...
>
> angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
>
> pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???
What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I don't
think you can put it down to "vengeance"; Hannibal Barca was a military
genius who ravaged Italy for years and came so close to wiping Rome off
the map. He was so good at pitched battles (formerly Rome's greatest
strength) that the Romans had to avoid him and use guerrilla tactics in
Italy itself. And if Carthage's senate had listened to Hannibal and sent
him more troops, instead of recalling him to Africa, then I think Rome
would have fallen.
Alexander the Great had done a similar thing with Thebes in Greece when
it revolted from Macedonian hegemony. All the men were executed, women
and children enslaved, city burnt to the ground. Oh, temples saved as
well as the house of Pindar, the poet who'd praised Alexander's
ancestor, Alexander I.
In the opening of his Politics, Aristotle claims that “all people do
everything which they do for the sake of what they think is good.” (τοῦ
γὰρ εἶναι δοκοῦντος ἀγαθοῦ χάριν πάντα πράττουσι πάντες.) That sounds
like PC to me; it's the "seems" (δοκοῦντος) which levels it.
I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what it's worth;
Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
Nativitatem (accusative)
ihesu (more often written Jesu) (genitive)
adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular)
angelus (nominative)
pastoribus (dtive)
Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.
Nice to hear from you again,
Ed

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 16:18 UTC

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:54:27 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> >
> >
> > === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
> >
> >
> >
> > i don't get the -US ending...
> >
> > angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
> >
> > pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???

> What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I don't

thanks !

i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem

since then... i've had very little contact with any related things (from that part of history)

>
> I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
> ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what it's worth;
> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> Nativitatem (accusative)
> ihesu (more often written Jesu) (genitive)
> adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular)
> angelus (nominative)
> pastoribus (dtive)
>
> Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
> Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.
>
> Nice to hear from you again,
>
> Ed

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.latin
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.languages.latin This one is filled with Spam

i've studied French and Spanish some, but never Latin or Italian.... so
i didn't realize that -us is just a generic ending for a Noun
while -ibus is Plural, dative or ablative

_______________________

( until yesterday i'd never thought about the etym. of [Pastor] -- i vaguely thought that it must be similar or related to the word for FATHER, Padre )

_______________________

speaking of -us ...

i've never understood why so many Germans have Latin-sounding surnames, ending in -ius

>>> Where does the ending -us come from in German surnames? Looks like Latin to me, but it probably isn't and I think Scandinavian surnames also have that ending, if I'm not mistaken.

........... It's quite possible that a "fancy" Latin ending was added to a German surname, I believe this practice was in fashion around the 1700s. We have them in Hungary, too:
Smidéliusz (or Schmidelius with German spelling) comes from Schmidl, "little smith".
There's also the Swedish chemist Berzelius, but I don't know anything about the origin of his name.

Learned people in all Europe latinized their names by adding Latin endings or translating their surnames.
Some examples:

Denmark: Broby (Bridgetown) -> Pontoppidan
Sweden: von Celsing -> Celsius
Poland: Ciolek (calf) -> Vitellus

Some even translated them to Greek:

Germany: Schwartzerdt -> Melanchton
Italy: Buonacorsi -> Kallimachos (Callimachus in Latin)

---------------- and maybe -us in Confucius, Mencius are from the same idea (as Celsius) ???

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

<tgf040$1qku0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:28:57 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:28 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:54:27 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
>>>
>>>
>>> === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i don't get the -US ending...
>>>
>>> angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
>>>
>>> pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???
>
>
>
>> What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I don't
>
>
> thanks !
>
> i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem
>
> since then... i've had very little contact with any related things (from that part of history)
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
>> ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what it's worth;
>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
>> Nativitatem (accusative)
>> ihesu (more often written Jesu) (genitive)
>> adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular)
>> angelus (nominative)
>> pastoribus (dtive)
>>
>> Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
>> Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.
>>
>> Nice to hear from you again,
>>
>> Ed
>
>
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.latin
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.languages.latin This one is filled with Spam
>
>
> i've studied French and Spanish some, but never Latin or Italian.... so
> i didn't realize that -us is just a generic ending for a Noun
> while -ibus is Plural, dative or ablative
>
> _______________________
>
> ( until yesterday i'd never thought about the etym. of [Pastor] -- i vaguely thought that it must be similar or related to the word for FATHER, Padre )
>
> _______________________
>
> speaking of -us ...
>
>
> i've never understood why so many Germans have Latin-sounding surnames, ending in -ius
>
>
>>>> Where does the ending -us come from in German surnames? Looks like Latin to me, but it probably isn't and I think Scandinavian surnames also have that ending, if I'm not mistaken.
>
>
> .......... It's quite possible that a "fancy" Latin ending was added to a German surname, I believe this practice was in fashion around the 1700s. We have them in Hungary, too:
> Smidéliusz (or Schmidelius with German spelling) comes from Schmidl, "little smith".
> There's also the Swedish chemist Berzelius, but I don't know anything about the origin of his name.
>
>
>
>
> Learned people in all Europe latinized their names by adding Latin endings or translating their surnames.
> Some examples:
>
> Denmark: Broby (Bridgetown) -> Pontoppidan
> Sweden: von Celsing -> Celsius
> Poland: Ciolek (calf) -> Vitellus
>
> Some even translated them to Greek:
>
> Germany: Schwartzerdt -> Melanchton
> Italy: Buonacorsi -> Kallimachos (Callimachus in Latin)
>
>
>
> ---------------- and maybe -us in Confucius, Mencius are from the same idea (as Celsius) ???
I've always carried an amusing picture of an ancient Roman family; all
sons - Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus,
with a daughter somewhere along the birthing path. Mum and dad like to
line them up and survey them, youngest to eldest from left to right,
heights ascending up a regular slope. And then the daughter (we'll call
her "Decima" in anticipation of more sons on the way) comes bustling in
from the back rooms insisting on having her place in the line, but she
won't fit.
And then on the family tomb are carved "Hic iacent Primus, Secundus,
Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus. Parentes eos amaverunt. Oh,
etiam Decima".
Ed (:-

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

<tgf2ha$1r8l$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:11:06 -0400
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 by: CDB - Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:11 UTC

On 9/21/2022 8:28 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

>>>> === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds

>>>> i don't get the -US ending...

>>>> angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,

>>>> pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???

>>> What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I
>>> don't
>>
>>
>> thanks !

>> i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about
>> Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem

>> since then... i've had very little contact with any related
>> things (from that part of history)

>>> I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
>>> ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what
>>> it's worth; Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
>>> Nativitatem (accusative) ihesu (more often written Jesu)
>>> (genitive) adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular) angelus
>>> (nominative) pastoribus (dtive)

>>> Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
>>> Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.

>>> Nice to hear from you again,

>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.latin
>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.languages.latin This one is
>> filled with Spam

>> i've studied French and Spanish some, but never
>> Latin or Italian.... so i didn't realize that -us is just
>> a generic ending for a Noun
while -ibus is
>> Plural, dative or ablative

>> _______________________
>>
>> ( until yesterday i'd never thought about the etym. of
>> [Pastor] -- i vaguely thought that it must be similar or related to
>> the word for FATHER, Padre )

>> _______________________

>> speaking of -us ...

>> i've never understood why so many Germans have Latin-sounding
>> surnames, ending in -ius

>>>>> Where does the ending -us come from in German surnames? Looks
>>>>> like Latin to me, but it probably isn't and I think
>>>>> Scandinavian surnames also have that ending, if I'm not
>>>>> mistaken.

>> .......... It's quite possible that a "fancy" Latin ending was
>> added to a German surname, I believe this practice was in fashion
>> around the 1700s. We have them in Hungary, too: Smidéliusz (or
>> Schmidelius with German spelling) comes from Schmidl, "little
>> smith". There's also the Swedish chemist Berzelius, but I don't
>> know anything about the origin of his name.

>> Learned people in all Europe latinized their names by adding Latin
>> endings or translating their surnames. Some examples:

>> Denmark: Broby (Bridgetown) -> Pontoppidan Sweden:
>> von Celsing -> Celsius Poland: Ciolek
>> (calf) -> Vitellus

>> Some even translated them to Greek:

>> Germany: Schwartzerdt -> Melanchton Italy: Buonacorsi
>> -> Kallimachos (Callimachus in Latin)

>> ---------------- and maybe -us in Confucius, Mencius are
>> from the same idea (as Celsius) ???

They are Latinised Western forms of the Chinese names and titles. Kong
Fuzi (Master Kong) was given an "-us" (the masculine nominative singular
ending for a common noun-class) to become Confucius; Mengzi - or maybe
Meng Ke? (his personal name) - became Mencius in the same way.

> I've always carried an amusing picture of an ancient Roman family;
> all sons - Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus,
> Septimus, with a daughter somewhere along the birthing path. Mum and
> dad like to line them up and survey them, youngest to eldest from
> left to right, heights ascending up a regular slope. And then the
> daughter (we'll call her "Decima" in anticipation of more sons on
> the way) comes bustling in from the back rooms insisting on having
> her place in the line, but she won't fit.

> And then on the family tomb are carved "Hic iacent Primus, Secundus,
> Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus. Parentes eos amaverunt.
> Oh, etiam Decima".

Daddy's little girl, if her daddy's name was Decimus.

> Ed (:-

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
From: caud...@gmail.com (Btraven)
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 by: Btraven - Wed, 28 Sep 2022 19:54 UTC

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 8:11:08 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 8:28 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> > henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Ed Cryer wrote:
> >>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
>
> >>>> === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
>
> >>>> i don't get the -US ending...
>
> >>>> angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
>
> >>>> pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???
>
> >>> What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I
> >>> don't
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks !
>
> >> i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about
> >> Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem
>
> >> since then... i've had very little contact with any related
> >> things (from that part of history)
>
> >>> I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
> >>> ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what
> >>> it's worth; Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> >>> Nativitatem (accusative) ihesu (more often written Jesu)
> >>> (genitive) adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular) angelus
> >>> (nominative) pastoribus (dtive)
>
> >>> Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
> >>> Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.
>
> >>> Nice to hear from you again,
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.latin
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.languages.latin This one is
> >> filled with Spam
>
> >> i've studied French and Spanish some, but never
> >> Latin or Italian.... so i didn't realize that -us is just
> >> a generic ending for a Noun
> while -ibus is
> >> Plural, dative or ablative
>
> >> _______________________
> >>
> >> ( until yesterday i'd never thought about the etym. of
> >> [Pastor] -- i vaguely thought that it must be similar or related to
> >> the word for FATHER, Padre )
>
> >> _______________________
>
> >> speaking of -us ...
>
> >> i've never understood why so many Germans have Latin-sounding
> >> surnames, ending in -ius
>
> >>>>> Where does the ending -us come from in German surnames? Looks
> >>>>> like Latin to me, but it probably isn't and I think
> >>>>> Scandinavian surnames also have that ending, if I'm not
> >>>>> mistaken.
>
> >> .......... It's quite possible that a "fancy" Latin ending was
> >> added to a German surname, I believe this practice was in fashion
> >> around the 1700s. We have them in Hungary, too: Smidéliusz (or
> >> Schmidelius with German spelling) comes from Schmidl, "little
> >> smith". There's also the Swedish chemist Berzelius, but I don't
> >> know anything about the origin of his name.
>
> >> Learned people in all Europe latinized their names by adding Latin
> >> endings or translating their surnames. Some examples:
>
> >> Denmark: Broby (Bridgetown) -> Pontoppidan Sweden:
> >> von Celsing -> Celsius Poland: Ciolek
> >> (calf) -> Vitellus
>
> >> Some even translated them to Greek:
>
> >> Germany: Schwartzerdt -> Melanchton Italy: Buonacorsi
> >> -> Kallimachos (Callimachus in Latin)
>
> >> ---------------- and maybe -us in Confucius, Mencius are
> >> from the same idea (as Celsius) ???
> They are Latinised Western forms of the Chinese names and titles. Kong
> Fuzi (Master Kong) was given an "-us" (the masculine nominative singular
> ending for a common noun-class) to become Confucius; Mengzi - or maybe
> Meng Ke? (his personal name) - became Mencius in the same way.
> > I've always carried an amusing picture of an ancient Roman family;
> > all sons - Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus,
> > Septimus, with a daughter somewhere along the birthing path. Mum and
> > dad like to line them up and survey them, youngest to eldest from
> > left to right, heights ascending up a regular slope. And then the
> > daughter (we'll call her "Decima" in anticipation of more sons on
> > the way) comes bustling in from the back rooms insisting on having
> > her place in the line, but she won't fit.
>
> > And then on the family tomb are carved "Hic iacent Primus, Secundus,
> > Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus. Parentes eos amaverunt.
> > Oh, etiam Decima".
> Daddy's little girl, if her daddy's name was Decimus.
>
> > Ed (:-

Even if Decima had been born into a family with 9 brothers (Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus, Octavus, Nonus) she would have been called Prima and the father's praenomen wouldn't go to her in any form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_gentes#D
and all associated wiki links tell almost the whole story.

Even more is contained in this 83 page 1897 paper on the origin of Roman praenomina:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/310491.pdf

There were never many Roman praenomina compared with the hundreds of nomina, cognomina, and agnomina:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Latin_praenomina

Btraven

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
From: caud...@gmail.com (Btraven)
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 by: Btraven - Wed, 28 Sep 2022 20:22 UTC

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 2:54:41 PM UTC-5, Btraven wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 8:11:08 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> > On 9/21/2022 8:28 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> > > henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> Ed Cryer wrote:
> > >>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >>>>> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> >
> > >>>> === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
> >
> > >>>> i don't get the -US ending...
> >
> > >>>> angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
> >
> > >>>> pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???
> >
> > >>> What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I
> > >>> don't
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> thanks !
> >
> > >> i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about
> > >> Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem
> >
> > >> since then... i've had very little contact with any related
> > >> things (from that part of history)
> >
> > >>> I can't fathom your problem with the Latin sentence; it seems so
> > >>> ordinary that I suspect I've misunderstood something. For what
> > >>> it's worth; Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> > >>> Nativitatem (accusative) ihesu (more often written Jesu)
> > >>> (genitive) adnuntiat (verb, 3rd person singular) angelus
> > >>> (nominative) pastoribus (dtive)
> >
> > >>> Could it be the word order that's thrown you? It might have been;
> > >>> Angelus navititatem Jesu pastoribus adnuntiat.
> >
> > >>> Nice to hear from you again,
> > >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.latin
> > >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.languages.latin This one is
> > >> filled with Spam
> >
> > >> i've studied French and Spanish some, but never
> > >> Latin or Italian.... so i didn't realize that -us is just
> > >> a generic ending for a Noun
> > while -ibus is
> > >> Plural, dative or ablative
> >
> > >> _______________________
> > >>
> > >> ( until yesterday i'd never thought about the etym. of
> > >> [Pastor] -- i vaguely thought that it must be similar or related to
> > >> the word for FATHER, Padre )
> >
> > >> _______________________
> >
> > >> speaking of -us ...
> >
> > >> i've never understood why so many Germans have Latin-sounding
> > >> surnames, ending in -ius
> >
> > >>>>> Where does the ending -us come from in German surnames? Looks
> > >>>>> like Latin to me, but it probably isn't and I think
> > >>>>> Scandinavian surnames also have that ending, if I'm not
> > >>>>> mistaken.
> >
> > >> .......... It's quite possible that a "fancy" Latin ending was
> > >> added to a German surname, I believe this practice was in fashion
> > >> around the 1700s. We have them in Hungary, too: Smidéliusz (or
> > >> Schmidelius with German spelling) comes from Schmidl, "little
> > >> smith". There's also the Swedish chemist Berzelius, but I don't
> > >> know anything about the origin of his name.
> >
> > >> Learned people in all Europe latinized their names by adding Latin
> > >> endings or translating their surnames. Some examples:
> >
> > >> Denmark: Broby (Bridgetown) -> Pontoppidan Sweden:
> > >> von Celsing -> Celsius Poland: Ciolek
> > >> (calf) -> Vitellus
> >
> > >> Some even translated them to Greek:
> >
> > >> Germany: Schwartzerdt -> Melanchton Italy: Buonacorsi
> > >> -> Kallimachos (Callimachus in Latin)
> >
> > >> ---------------- and maybe -us in Confucius, Mencius are
> > >> from the same idea (as Celsius) ???
> > They are Latinised Western forms of the Chinese names and titles. Kong
> > Fuzi (Master Kong) was given an "-us" (the masculine nominative singular
> > ending for a common noun-class) to become Confucius; Mengzi - or maybe
> > Meng Ke? (his personal name) - became Mencius in the same way.
> > > I've always carried an amusing picture of an ancient Roman family;
> > > all sons - Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus,
> > > Septimus, with a daughter somewhere along the birthing path. Mum and
> > > dad like to line them up and survey them, youngest to eldest from
> > > left to right, heights ascending up a regular slope. And then the
> > > daughter (we'll call her "Decima" in anticipation of more sons on
> > > the way) comes bustling in from the back rooms insisting on having
> > > her place in the line, but she won't fit.
> >
> > > And then on the family tomb are carved "Hic iacent Primus, Secundus,
> > > Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus. Parentes eos amaverunt.
> > > Oh, etiam Decima".
> > Daddy's little girl, if her daddy's name was Decimus.
> >
> > > Ed (:-
> Even if Decima had been born into a family with 9 brothers (Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus, Quintus, Sextus, Septimus, Octavus, Nonus) she would have been called Prima and the father's praenomen wouldn't go to her in any form.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_gentes#D
> and all associated wiki links tell almost the whole story.
>
> Even more is contained in this 83 page 1897 paper on the origin of Roman praenomina:
>
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/310491.pdf
>
> There were never many Roman praenomina compared with the hundreds of nomina, cognomina, and agnomina:
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Latin_praenomina
>
> Btraven

The part about ordinal first names starts at the bottom of p. 49 in
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/310491.pdf

Both Roman and Dakota-Lakota-Nakota cultures use ordinal first names but Roman culture is sudanese kinship pattern and Dakota seems to be the polar opposite of that. I don't know what pattern it follows.

Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus

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Subject: Re: Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Sun, 2 Oct 2022 19:42 UTC

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 9:18:31 AM UTC-7, henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:54:27 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> > henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> Nativitatem ihesu adnuntiat angelus pastoribus
> > >
> > >
> > > === An angel announces the birth of Jesus to the shepherds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > i don't get the -US ending...
> > >
> > > angelus ------------ here it's SUBJ case,
> > >
> > > pastoribus ----------- but here it's DATIVE or Accusative ???
>
>
>
> > What happened to Carthage was severe even by Rome's standards. I don't
> thanks !
>
> i'll read this part later.... When i was 17, i read about Carthage in T.S.Eliot's poem
>
> since then... i've had very little contact with any related things (from that part of history)
> >

> i'll read this part later....

i'll read this part (a few more times) later....

but my 1st reaction is...
if i could have Lunch with Warren Buffett or with Ed Cryer,
... that's an easy choice.... ( it'd be the latter )

HH

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