https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-against-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/

Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea

US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin

.. . .

He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
investment for over a century plus it's a big
strategic location controlling easy access to the
Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
won't/can't abandon.

Fortunately, Crimea is VERY difficult to attack
unless you have a big navy and air-force and
a zillion tanks on the ready. It's connected to
the mainland by a VERY narrow neck (find a map,
you'll see) that could be easily defended.
Remember the "300" movie where the Spartans
stopped the whole Persian army ... they also
found a very narrow spot the foe HAD to
get through.

IMHO, Crimea will remain Russian unless Putin is
replaced by a total wimp and a class-10 depression.

"25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>
> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>
> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>
> . . .
>
> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
> investment for over a century plus it's a big
> strategic location controlling easy access to the
> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
> won't/can't abandon.

Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
what country they want to live in.

Or do they not count?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 21:30:24 -0500, "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote:

>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-against-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>
>Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>
>US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin

The annexation of Ukrainian territory certainly turned into a red line for Zelensky.

That said, Li'l Pootin' has been threatening dire consequences for crossing red lines for
nearly a year now.

Mykhailo Lavrovskyi tweet: "Leaked joint statement by CIA and MI6:
Russia is planning to do absolutely fucking nothing if the West
supplies Ukraine with jets and longer-range missiles."

Russia isn't going to do anything. They're too scared of getting
into a direct conflict with NATO.

> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
> investment for over a century plus it's a big
> strategic location controlling easy access to the
> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
> won't/can't abandon.
>
> Fortunately, Crimea is VERY difficult to attack
> unless you have a big navy and air-force and
> a zillion tanks on the ready. It's connected to
> the mainland by a VERY narrow neck (find a map,
> you'll see) that could be easily defended.
> Remember the "300" movie where the Spartans
> stopped the whole Persian army ... they also
> found a very narrow spot the foe HAD to
> get through.
>
> IMHO, Crimea will remain Russian unless Putin is
> replaced by a total wimp and a class-10 depression.

I'm tired of Russia's bullshit. Time to teach them yet again to stop being a bull in a
china shop and pay for their dinnerware like everybody else.

Swill
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

On 2/16/23 21:05, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
> news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
>> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>>
>> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>>
>> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>>
>> . . .
>>
>> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
>> investment for over a century plus it's a big
>> strategic location controlling easy access to the
>> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
>> won't/can't abandon.
>
>
> Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
> what country they want to live in.
>
> Or do they not count?

They do count, but think about WWI and WWII. Both wars began as limited
conflicts and quickly mushroomed. The current situation is beginning ti
look much the same way. I cannot and will not tell Ukraine to not
attempt to recover territory stolen from them by Russia, but I also
understand that we may be headed for a repeat of 1914 and 1939. The USA
attempted to stay out of both wars, but events forced us to become
involved, and I am afraid the same thing is about to happen concerning
the Ukraine, unless one country or the other surrenders. I don't see
that happening.

On 2/17/23 5:40 PM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 2/16/23 21:05, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
>> news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>>
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
>>> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>>>
>>> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>>>
>>> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>>> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>>>
>>> . . .
>>>
>>>     He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
>>>     investment for over a century plus it's a big
>>>     strategic location controlling easy access to the
>>>     Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
>>>     won't/can't abandon.
>>
>>
>>       Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
>> what country they want to live in.
>>
>>       Or do they not count?
>
> They do count,

No ... not really ... when big powers are on the
move nobody gives a shit what the people between
them and The Goal have to think.

> but think about WWI and WWII. Both wars began as limited
> conflicts and quickly mushroomed. The current situation is beginning ti
> look much the same way. I cannot and will not tell Ukraine to not
> attempt to recover territory stolen from them by Russia, but I also
> understand that we may be headed for a repeat of 1914 and 1939. The USA
> attempted to stay out of both wars, but events forced us to become
> involved, and I am afraid the same thing is about to happen concerning
> the Ukraine, unless one country or the other surrenders. I don't see
> that happening.

The current era reminds of the lead-up to WW-1 especially.
Ambitious powers, lots of little radicals/anarchists, a
divided public that's not happy about ANYTHING ....

I expect Crimea to be an "area of contention" for decades.
Eventually *something* will change, swing the balance, but
don't count on it anytime soon (and it may not be a GOOD
swing). Ukraine should officially maintain its claim in
the meanwhile - just not try to physically take it back.

If (HaHaHa) "sensible" people get involved maybe Crimeans
could have 'dual citizenship' in a 'dual-use' peninsula.

David Hartung <junk@nogood.com> wrote in news:ULSdnaKeRK3Yn23-
nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> On 2/16/23 21:05, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
>> news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>>
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
>>> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>>>
>>> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>>>
>>> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>>> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>>>
>>> . . .
>>>
>>> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
>>> investment for over a century plus it's a big
>>> strategic location controlling easy access to the
>>> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
>>> won't/can't abandon.
>>
>>
>> Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
>> what country they want to live in.
>>
>> Or do they not count?
>
> They do count, but think about WWI and WWII. Both wars began as limited
> conflicts and quickly mushroomed. The current situation is beginning ti
> look much the same way. I cannot and will not tell Ukraine to not
> attempt to recover territory stolen from them by Russia, but I also
> understand that we may be headed for a repeat of 1914 and 1939. The USA
> attempted to stay out of both wars, but events forced us to become
> involved, and I am afraid the same thing is about to happen concerning
> the Ukraine, unless one country or the other surrenders. I don't see
> that happening.
>

If Russia stops fighting there will be no more war.

If Ukraine stops fighting there will be no more Ukraine.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 16:40:04 -0600, David Hartung <junk@nogood.com> wrote:

>On 2/16/23 21:05, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
>> news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>>
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
>>> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>>>
>>> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>>>
>>> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>>> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>>>
>>> . . .
>>>
>>> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
>>> investment for over a century plus it's a big
>>> strategic location controlling easy access to the
>>> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
>>> won't/can't abandon.
>>
>>
>> Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
>> what country they want to live in.
>>
>> Or do they not count?
>
>They do count, but think about WWI and WWII. Both wars began as limited
>conflicts and quickly mushroomed. The current situation is beginning ti
>look much the same way. I cannot and will not tell Ukraine to not
>attempt to recover territory stolen from them by Russia, but I also
>understand that we may be headed for a repeat of 1914 and 1939. The USA
>attempted to stay out of both wars, but events forced us to become
>involved, and I am afraid the same thing is about to happen concerning
>the Ukraine, unless one country or the other surrenders. I don't see
>that happening.

Que sera, sera.

I don't think Russia has anywhere near the military capabilities or allies to engage in a
broader war with Europe and North America. They're hanging on by their fingernails
against Ukraine, a nation of subsistence and grain crop farmers.

The real concern is financing the rebuilding Ukraine post war. A difference between the
world wars and this one is that the aggressor isn't going to get much charity from the
victor. No Marshall Plan for Russia, though Ukraine might get one. The EU is already
looking at ways to transfer Russians' external wealth to Ukraine's use after the war.

Swill
NP: Led Zeppelin - "Sick Again"
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 21:03:53 -0500, "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaada.net> wrote:

>
> The current era reminds of the lead-up to WW-1 especially.
> Ambitious powers, lots of little radicals/anarchists, a
> divided public that's not happy about ANYTHING ....

Not much division on this. The unity and enthusiasm the West is showing for Ukraine is
phenomenal.

> I expect Crimea to be an "area of contention" for decades.

Its been an area of contention for centuries already. If Russia had just been a good
neighbor and treated Ukraine well, they might have been able to work out a naval base
lease for Sevastopol. If Li'l Pootin's KGB brain hadn't kicked in, Russia might still be
a free country headed for EU and NATO membership.

> Eventually *something* will change, swing the balance, but
> don't count on it anytime soon (and it may not be a GOOD
> swing). Ukraine should officially maintain its claim in
> the meanwhile - just not try to physically take it back.

As long as the West arms them and doesn't object, Ukraine will do what it wants. Imo,
they should get Crimea as well as the Donbas but I realistically expect that in the end,
Ukraine may have to give up some ground, the Crimea at least.

> If (HaHaHa) "sensible" people get involved maybe Crimeans
> could have 'dual citizenship' in a 'dual-use' peninsula.

Or independence allowing them to sleep on both sides of the bed.

Swill
NP: Legacy - "Jesus Street"
--
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit!

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 02:38:09 +0000, Mitchell Holman <noemail@verizon.net> wrote:

>David Hartung <junk@nogood.com> wrote in news:ULSdnaKeRK3Yn23-
>nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> On 2/16/23 21:05, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> wrote in
>>> news:ZOCcnVs4JqVce3P-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>>>
>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/16/ukraine-warned-agains
>>>> t-attempting-retake-crimea-putin/
>>>>
>>>> Antony Blinken 'warns Ukraine' against retaking Crimea
>>>>
>>>> US secretary of state fears that efforts to reclaim the
>>>> annexed peninsula would be a red line for Vladimir Putin
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>> He may be right. Crimea represents a huge Russian
>>>> investment for over a century plus it's a big
>>>> strategic location controlling easy access to the
>>>> Black Sea. It may be a security asset they just
>>>> won't/can't abandon.
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe we should ask the Crimeans
>>> what country they want to live in.
>>>
>>> Or do they not count?
>>
>> They do count, but think about WWI and WWII. Both wars began as limited
>> conflicts and quickly mushroomed. The current situation is beginning ti
>> look much the same way. I cannot and will not tell Ukraine to not
>> attempt to recover territory stolen from them by Russia, but I also
>> understand that we may be headed for a repeat of 1914 and 1939. The USA
>> attempted to stay out of both wars, but events forced us to become
>> involved, and I am afraid the same thing is about to happen concerning
>> the Ukraine, unless one country or the other surrenders. I don't see
>> that happening.
>>
>
>
> If Russia stops fighting there will be no more war.
>
> If Ukraine stops fighting there will be no more Ukraine.

Da.

Swill
NP: Legacy - "3 Chord Trick"
--
"Russia has lost. They've lost strategitally, operationally and tactically and they are
paying an enormous price on the battlefield. But until Putin ends his war of choice the
international community will continue to support Ukraine with the equipment and
capabilities it needs to defend itself. Through this group, we are collectively
supporting Ukraine's ability to defend its territory, protect its citizens and liberate
their occupied areas." - Joint Chiefs Chairman, Gen. Mark Milley

Sláva Ukrajíni! Heroyam slava!