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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

SubjectAuthor
* [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?kyonshi
+* Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?Spalls Hurgenson
|`- Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?kyonshi
`* Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?gbbgu
 +- Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?kyonshi
 `- Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?Justisaur

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[dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
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Subject: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too
late?
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:25:23 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 11:25 UTC

Source:
https://www.dicebreaker.com/series/dungeons-and-dragons/opinion/dnd-version-coming-too-late

Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

Slow and steady has not won this race.
Opinion by Alex Meehan Senior Staff Writer
Published on March 14, 2024

2024 is meant to be a big year for Dungeons & Dragons, as the 50th
anniversary of the tabletop roleplaying game lines up with the release
of the next series of core rulebooks.

However, it doesn’t feel especially momentous. Instead, it seems like
the recent cultural steam for D&D we’ve seen spewing out across the
mainstream has been dissipating in the last couple of years. To the
point that it feels like the 2024 edition of the RPG could turn out to
be a sad flop, rather than the triumphant evolution of Dungeons &
Dragons 5E into a digitally-focused roleplaying game.

Though it makes a lot of sense to time the release of the new rulebooks
to coincide with the 50th anniversary of D&D, the buzz surrounding the
next iteration roleplaying game is a lot quieter than you’d expect it to
be considering that, 1) it’s been ten years since the release of Fifth
Edition and 2) this is the newest version of the biggest tabletop RPG in
the Western world.

This feels partly the fault of Wizards of the Coast itself. Since One
D&D - now called Dungeons & Dragons 2024 - was first announced in
mid-2022, there have been regular updates to its work-in-progress
playtest rules, which could only be found on the Unearthed Arcana
website. Eventually, announcements for the release dates of the new
Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide and Monster Manual were made
earlier this year. However, the company’s overall approach to marketing
has been decidedly minimal so far. No official documentary, no word on
the previously announced D&D TV show, no glamorous event celebrating the
anniversary - which was this February and was acknowledged with a small
video - and no tie-in with Wizards of the Coast’s other big game, Magic:
The Gathering. Not even a ridiculously overhyped campaign featured some
ludicrously overpriced piece of merchandise.

Since the release of D&D 5E, which is easily the game’s most successful
edition - Wizards claimed that it had over 50 million players by 2020 -
Dungeons & Dragons has become a lot more accessible, meaning that there
are more people willing to give it a try. After its initial release in
2014, there have been no major changes to the 5E formula and it looks
unlikely there will be in the near future, with the upcoming rulebooks
looking to refine rather than reinvent. This approach could be leading
D&D 5E to stagnate, with less loyal players looking elsewhere for new
experiences.

One factor that aided in Dungeons & Dragons becoming more popular was
its role in Netflix’s hit 1980s-themed series Stranger Things, with
aspects of the RPG’s lore appearing, almost wholesale, within multiple
seasons. Wizards even released an official Stranger Things-themed
starter set for D&D 5E. However, with critical acclaim for the series
declining with every subsequent season, a two-year gap since the release
of its last season, and a fifth and final season yet to be seen,
Stranger Things and D&D alike don’t have as much of a stranglehold on
popular culture as they once did.

The rise of actual play series - shows in which the cast are filmed
playing tabletop roleplaying games, often D&D - have also played a large
part in the increased interest in Dungeons & Dragons. The most popular
actual play series is easily Critical Role, reportedly one of the top
earners on Twitch in October 2021, which was also arguably the show’s
high point in terms of quality. More recent numbers for Critical Role’s
Twitch channel reportedly show that their yearly viewership was down
from around 10 million viewers in 2021 to around five million viewers in
2023.

Critical Role itself appears to be exploring other tabletop RPGs outside
of Dungeons & Dragons, both on-screen and via its own publishing label
Darrington Press, including recent horror RPG Candela Obscura and
upcoming fantasy RPG Daggerheart. Critical Role’s gradual move away from
D&D has further added to the feeling that Dungeons & Dragons has crested
over a hill of cultural relevance in the last year or so.

This feeling was reflected in the performance of last year’s Dungeons &
Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, the latest attempt from Wizards of the
Coast to bring the RPG to the big screen after its critically disastrous
noughties movie. Though Honor Among Thieves was critically
well-received, it fared a lot worse financially. The film cost $150
million to make and only brought in $208m worldwide, likely putting it
under its total production and marketing budget. It’s no surprise that
Wizards of the Coast owner Hasbro has since offloaded its television and
movie studio Entertainment One to Lionsgate.

Even the release of video game Baldur’s Gate 3 last year, which has
turned out to be a surprise hit, both critically and commercially, feels
like it hasn’t been capitalised on by Wizards of the Coast. Its only
major tie-ins were a Magic: The Gathering set released in 2022,
Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur’s Gate, and a prequel D&D 5E
adventure book released years earlier, 2019’s Baldur’s Gate: Descent
into Avernus. Despite the D&D video game reaching the kinds of players
who probably haven’t ever played the original tabletop roleplaying game,
but might do now they’ve fallen in love with Baldur’s Gate 3, it seems
Wizards hasn't attempted to court them further.

D&D fans’ loyalty has also been tested by last year’s debacle around the
Open Game License, which saw Wizards attempting to tighten its grip on
any supplements and games based on the OGL 5E gameplay system. The OGL
gives third-party creators the legal right to use gameplay mechanics and
other elements from Dungeons & Dragons in their own releases, which has
since led to a thriving community of expansions and spin-offs, as well
as D&D-descended RPGs such as Pathfinder. Wizards had initially planned
to scrap all previous versions of the OGL System Reference Document and
force creators to agree to a new OGL - which could have seen some
publishers paying a 25% royalty cost if their materials made enough
money. The outcry from publishers, creators and fans eventually saw
Wizards pivot away from its plans to change the OGL, but the damage was
already done.

Which brings us back to this year and the imminent release of the next
series of core rulebooks for Dungeons & Dragons despite the fires stoked
by the release of D&D 5E, Stranger Things, Critical Role and Baldur’s
Gate 3 seeming to have burned out before their arrival - with the OGL
debacle pouring cold water on the once red-hot RPG.

We can’t yet predict how well these books will sell and how many people
will come onboard for the digital-first approach Wizards of the Coast is
pushing for D&D 2024. However, it’s clear that Wizards has already
rocked the D&D boat with its OGL shenanigans and hasn’t done enough to
court the interests of people outside its usual fanbase, with much of
the world remaining completely unaware that a new version of the
roleplaying game is arriving in the same year as its 50th anniversary.
Wizards’ apparent lack of enthusiasm towards promoting the next big step
for its biggest game could be reflective of the tabletop industry’s
current aversion to costly campaigns and tendency to button down the
hatches in response to the cost-of-living crisis.

Perhaps if the company had released the new version of D&D a couple of
years ago, it might have arrived into a better environment - both in
terms of the global situation and people’s perception of D&D. For now,
the arrival of Dungeons & Dragons 2024 could be too little, too late.

Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:38:49 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:38 UTC

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:25:23 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>Source:
>https://www.dicebreaker.com/series/dungeons-and-dragons/opinion/dnd-version-coming-too-late
>
>Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

I'd argue that the new version is coming too EARLY.

We as gamers don't really need a new edition. Fifth Edition is fine.
There isn't anything really wrong with the current edition, after all.
In fact, having a certain stability to the game is actually a benefit.
Revisions to the rules don't make for good games; it's the adventures
and settings (and the way the DM and players interact) that make for
exciting experiences. And trying to write good adventures on the
shifting sands of constantly changing rules isn't beneficial to that
goal.

The release of a new edition is largely to the benefit of Hasbro/WOTC.
It allows them to hype up the game, hopefully attracting new
customers, and forces everyone to buy new rulebooks. It's being done
to meet next-quarter targets, not because there is any pressing need
for a change.

But what do I know. I'm fine with AD&D ;-)

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming
too late?
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 18:38:13 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 17:38 UTC

On 3/15/2024 2:38 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:25:23 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Source:
>> https://www.dicebreaker.com/series/dungeons-and-dragons/opinion/dnd-version-coming-too-late
>>
>> Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?
>
>
> I'd argue that the new version is coming too EARLY.
>
> We as gamers don't really need a new edition. Fifth Edition is fine.
> There isn't anything really wrong with the current edition, after all.
> In fact, having a certain stability to the game is actually a benefit.
> Revisions to the rules don't make for good games; it's the adventures
> and settings (and the way the DM and players interact) that make for
> exciting experiences. And trying to write good adventures on the
> shifting sands of constantly changing rules isn't beneficial to that
> goal.
>
> The release of a new edition is largely to the benefit of Hasbro/WOTC.
> It allows them to hype up the game, hopefully attracting new
> customers, and forces everyone to buy new rulebooks. It's being done
> to meet next-quarter targets, not because there is any pressing need
> for a change.
>
> But what do I know. I'm fine with AD&D ;-)
>
>

I think the author is under the misconception that DnD needs a new
edition to be successful, and that new editions would be something good.

But WotC is very careful about not wanting an actual new edition because
they are afraid their players will jump ship to other games.

Anyway, I think lately I have seen enough evidence that Hasbro wants DnD
to move into a media franchise, with tabletop rules just one of many
legs of some multifaced behemoth of culture. Unfortunately they also are
a faceless company giant which doesn't understand what they are selling.

Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

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 by: gbbgu - Tue, 26 Mar 2024 03:20 UTC

On 15 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:

> This feels partly the fault of Wizards of the Coast itself. Since One
> D&D - now called Dungeons & Dragons 2024 - was first announced in

Confusion about the release isn't helping. 6e, 5.5e, 5.1e, no it's just 5e
really, one dnd, dnd 2024... I'm sure I've missed some in there.

Just pick a version, call it that and be consistant. I get they don't want to
alienate all the new 5e players that bought stuff off the back of the
popularity bump of 2020, but pathfinder managed this with the remaster
release. Everyone knew it was a remaster, made sure the fans understood what
was coming, the compatability etc, and I don't recall seeing any complaints.

--
gbbgu

Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming
too late?
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 09:43:40 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:43 UTC

On 3/26/2024 4:20 AM, gbbgu wrote:
> On 15 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:
>
>> This feels partly the fault of Wizards of the Coast itself. Since One
>> D&D - now called Dungeons & Dragons 2024 - was first announced in
>
> Confusion about the release isn't helping. 6e, 5.5e, 5.1e, no it's just 5e
> really, one dnd, dnd 2024... I'm sure I've missed some in there.
>
> Just pick a version, call it that and be consistant. I get they don't want to
> alienate all the new 5e players that bought stuff off the back of the
> popularity bump of 2020, but pathfinder managed this with the remaster
> release. Everyone knew it was a remaster, made sure the fans understood what
> was coming, the compatability etc, and I don't recall seeing any complaints.
>
>

Nobody else had an issue alienating their players for the last 50 years.
Just make the changes incremental, make it possible to use the older
stuff with barely any modifications. Just think about how people were
using ADnD 1e stuff with 2e. I don't know why since 3rd edition they
have to completely upend the way the game works with every edition.
Editions used to be a thing that refined stuff, they weren't supposed to
create completely new games with only the rough genre remaining the same.

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From: justis...@yahoo.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming
too late?
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 by: Justisaur - Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:41 UTC

On 3/25/2024 8:20 PM, gbbgu wrote:
> On 15 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:
>
>> This feels partly the fault of Wizards of the Coast itself. Since One
>> D&D - now called Dungeons & Dragons 2024 - was first announced in
>
> Confusion about the release isn't helping. 6e, 5.5e, 5.1e, no it's just 5e
> really, one dnd, dnd 2024... I'm sure I've missed some in there.

> Just pick a version, call it that and be consistant. I get they don't want to
> alienate all the new 5e players that bought stuff off the back of the
> popularity bump of 2020, but pathfinder managed this with the remaster
> release. Everyone knew it was a remaster, made sure the fans understood what
> was coming, the compatability etc, and I don't recall seeing any complaints.

5e was D&D Next before it was released. It's common practice to call a
creative product something else and change the name for release, which
makes sense as it's in flux and may be incorrect before finalized.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / [dicebreaker] Is the next version of Dungeons & Dragons coming too late?

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