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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

SubjectAuthor
* [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s futurekyonshi
+* Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG?s futureSpalls Hurgenson
|`* Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs futurekyonshi
| `* Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs futureSpalls Hurgenson
|  `- Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs futurekyonshi
`* Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future (was: [Wagbbgu
 +- Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s futurekyonshi
 `- Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s futureJustisaur

1
[Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

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Subject: [Wargamer]_Hasbro_CEO_optimistic_about_AI_in_DnD_and_
MTG’s_future
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 by: kyonshi - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:26 UTC

Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions

Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

Future Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering content could come
from Artificial Intelligence, if the bets of Hasbro’s CEO are right.

Mollie Russell

Published: 14.03.2024
Dungeons and Dragons Magic: The Gathering

A recent interview with Chris Cocks reveals the Hasbro CEO has high
hopes for Artificial Intelligence and content creation. According to a
March 1 interview by VentureBeat, Cocks foresees a future where AI can
generate content and game scenarios for Hasbro’s major IPs, including
Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons.

Cocks cites a few experiments Hasbro has already conducted with AI in
the interview. These include a virtual Ouija board (yes, those are a
Hasbro property) and a free online version of Trivial Pursuit with
AI-generated questions. That last one apparently boosted the original
trivia board game’s sales by 30%.

Cocks radiates excitement, but it seems the tabletop gaming community is
much more skeptical of Artificial Intelligence. Hasbro’s subsidiary,
Wizards of the Coast, has already apologized twice for using AI art in
content – once in a Dungeons and Dragons book, and once in an MTG ad
(after promising to limit the use of AI).

Several smaller tabletop RPG publishers banned AI content from their
products, claiming they wished to protect the livelihoods of human
creators. Additionally, the RPG community has prohibited its use on
Dungeon Master’s Guild, one of the largest online D&D marketplaces. Many
fans have become hyper-vigilant in their search for AI, to the point
that false accusations prompted Wizards to deny its use in the upcoming
D&D Player’s Handbook.

Despite concerns from the community, those in charge seem more open to
AI. Head MTG designer Mark Rosewater previously said he believed the
technology would one day be used as a design tool in the trading card
game, for example. This seems to echo Cocks’ dreams of AI content.

Habsro’s CEO is conscious of the company’s responsibilities, though. In
the VentureBeat interview, he repeats the word ‘respect’ several times.
These experiments apparently must respect creators and their ownership
of work, as well as the consumers of this content (young and old).

The company’s experiments with AI seem to be in very early research and
development stages. But Cocks says we will see more ideas from Hasbro
about how to incorporate AI into its digital and physical games in
future. With trust in Wizards of the Coast at a major low after the OGL
controversy and Hasbro layoffs last year, we’re wondering how the D&D
and MTG communities will receive this news.

You can read more about Chris Cocks’ thoughts in the VentureBeat
interview. For more updates, be sure to follow Wargamer on Google News.
And for the latest Wizards releases, keep a close eye on the MTG release
schedule and the DnD release schedule.

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG?s future

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG???s future
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:16:45 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:16 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 13:26:50 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions
>
>Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future
>
>Future Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering content could come
>from Artificial Intelligence, if the bets of Hasbro’s CEO are right.
>

Well, of course. Why pay salaries to have content hand-created when
you can instead just have a large-language model algorithm
regurgitate pabulum? Sure, it will lack originality and character, but
it's cheap and resembles existing material closely enough that people
will be fooled into buying it. And once you flood the market with
enough algorithmically generated content, people will lose the ability
to discern how generic it all is.

Sure, stuff created by actual humans will be notably better, but
they'll also cost more, and - sadly - given the choice, people always
chose the cheaper option... especially if the cheap option is 'good
enough'.

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:45:12 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:45 UTC

On 3/14/2024 5:16 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 13:26:50 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions
>>
>> Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future
>>
>> Future Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering content could come
>>from Artificial Intelligence, if the bets of Hasbro’s CEO are right.
>>
>
> Well, of course. Why pay salaries to have content hand-created when
> you can instead just have a large-language model algorithm
> regurgitate pabulum? Sure, it will lack originality and character, but
> it's cheap and resembles existing material closely enough that people
> will be fooled into buying it. And once you flood the market with
> enough algorithmically generated content, people will lose the ability
> to discern how generic it all is.
>
> Sure, stuff created by actual humans will be notably better, but
> they'll also cost more, and - sadly - given the choice, people always
> chose the cheaper option... especially if the cheap option is 'good
> enough'.
>
>

The question would be though: why should I pay for stuff that just has
been artificially created? More than a few cents at least? If I am
paying for a book I am paying for the copy, yes, but I am also paying an
artisan (multiple ones really) for producing something of value to me.
If there is no actual person involved, why would I pay for it?
Sure people might choose the cheaper option, but the cheaper option in
this case is not "pay for whatever WotC churns out" but "pirate whatever
you need".

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future

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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:32:40 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:32 UTC

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:45:12 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/14/2024 5:16 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>
>The question would be though: why should I pay for stuff that just has
>been artificially created? More than a few cents at least? If I am
>paying for a book I am paying for the copy, yes, but I am also paying an
>artisan (multiple ones really) for producing something of value to me.
>If there is no actual person involved, why would I pay for it?

Because it's 'good enough' and you need a quick adventure or setting
for your next session, and don't have the time or energy to do it
yourself. Sure, AI-module might not have that same verve or spark to
it (or new ideas) that a hand-written adventure might, but if it has a
decent enough hook, a good map and some good loot, that might be
enough.

(and since the AI will be cribbing off thousands of hand-written
adventures already, it probably will have all those features)

>Sure people might choose the cheaper option, but the cheaper option in
>this case is not "pay for whatever WotC churns out" but "pirate whatever
>you need".

Some people don't want to pirate, and if they do, they'll just as
likely infringe upon human-written stuff as AI generated.

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTGs future
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 18:34:49 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 17:34 UTC

On 3/15/2024 2:32 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:45:12 +0100, kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/14/2024 5:16 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>
>> The question would be though: why should I pay for stuff that just has
>> been artificially created? More than a few cents at least? If I am
>> paying for a book I am paying for the copy, yes, but I am also paying an
>> artisan (multiple ones really) for producing something of value to me.
>> If there is no actual person involved, why would I pay for it?
>
> Because it's 'good enough' and you need a quick adventure or setting
> for your next session, and don't have the time or energy to do it
> yourself. Sure, AI-module might not have that same verve or spark to
> it (or new ideas) that a hand-written adventure might, but if it has a
> decent enough hook, a good map and some good loot, that might be
> enough.
>
> (and since the AI will be cribbing off thousands of hand-written
> adventures already, it probably will have all those features)
>

And it will adhere to the old maxim that 90% of everything is crud.
An AI doesn't know if something is good or not, it only knows if
something is similar to what a lot of other people are doing.
Even with a lot of hand-written adventures out there I don't see a lot
of them getting any traction. How would an AI generated one even get
people interested in them?
Well, except maybe the AI DMs Hasbro also wants to roll out. Maybe at
one point they will have AI DMs playing AI generated modules for AI
players, giving the rest of us time to play something good.

>> Sure people might choose the cheaper option, but the cheaper option in
>> this case is not "pay for whatever WotC churns out" but "pirate whatever
>> you need".
>
> Some people don't want to pirate, and if they do, they'll just as
> likely infringe upon human-written stuff as AI generated.
>
>

Then the option still is: take any of the thousands of above-average
adventures that have been written and put online for cheap by
enterprising DMs all over the hobby's history. If anything we have a
glut of adventures out there.
And I didn't talk about pirating in general, I just think that the
ethical barriers will be lower if you aren't hurting any actual author.

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future (was: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG???s future)

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 by: gbbgu - Wed, 20 Mar 2024 02:29 UTC

On 14 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:

> Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions
>
> Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future
>
> Future Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering content could come
> from Artificial Intelligence, if the bets of Hasbro’s CEO are right.
>
>
> Mollie Russell
>
> Published: 14.03.2024
> Dungeons and Dragons Magic: The Gathering
>
> A recent interview with Chris Cocks reveals the Hasbro CEO has high
> hopes for Artificial Intelligence and content creation. According to a
> March 1 interview by VentureBeat, Cocks foresees a future where AI can
> generate content and game scenarios for Hasbro’s major IPs, including
> Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons.
>
> Cocks cites a few experiments Hasbro has already conducted with AI in
> the interview. These include a virtual Ouija board (yes, those are a
> Hasbro property) and a free online version of Trivial Pursuit with
> AI-generated questions. That last one apparently boosted the original
> trivia board game’s sales by 30%.
>
> Cocks radiates excitement, but it seems the tabletop gaming community is
> much more skeptical of Artificial Intelligence. Hasbro’s subsidiary,
> Wizards of the Coast, has already apologized twice for using AI art in
> content – once in a Dungeons and Dragons book, and once in an MTG ad
> (after promising to limit the use of AI).
>
>
> Several smaller tabletop RPG publishers banned AI content from their
> products, claiming they wished to protect the livelihoods of human
> creators. Additionally, the RPG community has prohibited its use on
> Dungeon Master’s Guild, one of the largest online D&D marketplaces. Many
> fans have become hyper-vigilant in their search for AI, to the point
> that false accusations prompted Wizards to deny its use in the upcoming
> D&D Player’s Handbook.
>
> Despite concerns from the community, those in charge seem more open to
> AI. Head MTG designer Mark Rosewater previously said he believed the
> technology would one day be used as a design tool in the trading card
> game, for example. This seems to echo Cocks’ dreams of AI content.
>
> Habsro’s CEO is conscious of the company’s responsibilities, though. In
> the VentureBeat interview, he repeats the word ‘respect’ several times.
> These experiments apparently must respect creators and their ownership
> of work, as well as the consumers of this content (young and old).
>
>
> The company’s experiments with AI seem to be in very early research and
> development stages. But Cocks says we will see more ideas from Hasbro
> about how to incorporate AI into its digital and physical games in
> future. With trust in Wizards of the Coast at a major low after the OGL
> controversy and Hasbro layoffs last year, we’re wondering how the D&D
> and MTG communities will receive this news.
>
> You can read more about Chris Cocks’ thoughts in the VentureBeat
> interview. For more updates, be sure to follow Wargamer on Google News.
> And for the latest Wizards releases, keep a close eye on the MTG release
> schedule and the DnD release schedule.

It's interesting they're so into AI. Once it becomes good enough, all of us
will have low cost equal access to AI. There's nothing special about what they
make when anyone can do it relatively cheaply.

I'm personally already using it to flesh out ideas for adventures and I'm sure
many others are. I can't be bothered to write a description for this random
room the PCs probably wont ever see, what Chat GPT produces is good enough
with a few tweaks.

I have almost 40 5e books, and if they're just going to use AI to make them,
what's the point of buying them. I'm not interested in that at all.

But I'm old school and love my books. Maybe it'll be different for GM-less VTT
games where you're locked into their ecosystem.

--
gbbgu

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc
Subject: Re:_[Wargamer]_Hasbro_CEO_optimistic_about_AI_in_Dn
D_and_MTG’s_future
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 14:48:28 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Wed, 20 Mar 2024 13:48 UTC

On 3/20/2024 3:29 AM, gbbgu wrote:
> On 14 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:
>
>> Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions
>>
>> Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future
>>
>> Future Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering content could come
>> from Artificial Intelligence, if the bets of Hasbro’s CEO are right.
>>
>>
>> Mollie Russell
>>
>> Published: 14.03.2024
>> Dungeons and Dragons Magic: The Gathering
>>
>> A recent interview with Chris Cocks reveals the Hasbro CEO has high
>> hopes for Artificial Intelligence and content creation. According to a
>> March 1 interview by VentureBeat, Cocks foresees a future where AI can
>> generate content and game scenarios for Hasbro’s major IPs, including
>> Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons.
>>
>> Cocks cites a few experiments Hasbro has already conducted with AI in
>> the interview. These include a virtual Ouija board (yes, those are a
>> Hasbro property) and a free online version of Trivial Pursuit with
>> AI-generated questions. That last one apparently boosted the original
>> trivia board game’s sales by 30%.
>>
>> Cocks radiates excitement, but it seems the tabletop gaming community is
>> much more skeptical of Artificial Intelligence. Hasbro’s subsidiary,
>> Wizards of the Coast, has already apologized twice for using AI art in
>> content – once in a Dungeons and Dragons book, and once in an MTG ad
>> (after promising to limit the use of AI).
>>
>>
>> Several smaller tabletop RPG publishers banned AI content from their
>> products, claiming they wished to protect the livelihoods of human
>> creators. Additionally, the RPG community has prohibited its use on
>> Dungeon Master’s Guild, one of the largest online D&D marketplaces. Many
>> fans have become hyper-vigilant in their search for AI, to the point
>> that false accusations prompted Wizards to deny its use in the upcoming
>> D&D Player’s Handbook.
>>
>> Despite concerns from the community, those in charge seem more open to
>> AI. Head MTG designer Mark Rosewater previously said he believed the
>> technology would one day be used as a design tool in the trading card
>> game, for example. This seems to echo Cocks’ dreams of AI content.
>>
>> Habsro’s CEO is conscious of the company’s responsibilities, though. In
>> the VentureBeat interview, he repeats the word ‘respect’ several times.
>> These experiments apparently must respect creators and their ownership
>> of work, as well as the consumers of this content (young and old).
>>
>>
>> The company’s experiments with AI seem to be in very early research and
>> development stages. But Cocks says we will see more ideas from Hasbro
>> about how to incorporate AI into its digital and physical games in
>> future. With trust in Wizards of the Coast at a major low after the OGL
>> controversy and Hasbro layoffs last year, we’re wondering how the D&D
>> and MTG communities will receive this news.
>>
>> You can read more about Chris Cocks’ thoughts in the VentureBeat
>> interview. For more updates, be sure to follow Wargamer on Google News.
>> And for the latest Wizards releases, keep a close eye on the MTG release
>> schedule and the DnD release schedule.
>
> It's interesting they're so into AI. Once it becomes good enough, all of us
> will have low cost equal access to AI. There's nothing special about what they
> make when anyone can do it relatively cheaply.
>
> I'm personally already using it to flesh out ideas for adventures and I'm sure
> many others are. I can't be bothered to write a description for this random
> room the PCs probably wont ever see, what Chat GPT produces is good enough
> with a few tweaks.
>
> I have almost 40 5e books, and if they're just going to use AI to make them,
> what's the point of buying them. I'm not interested in that at all.
>
> But I'm old school and love my books. Maybe it'll be different for GM-less VTT
> games where you're locked into their ecosystem.
>

The main issue I have with it is that with this whole AI stuff they are
reducing their costs for paying people, yes, but they also are removing
the reason why people would pay for their product. If you get nothing
but an AI generated product where no human artisan ever had their hands
on, what's the point in spending the money for that?

What's the point in GM-less VTT games? Those are basically just
CRPGs/MMORPGs with extra steps.
I think they are drastically misunderstanding their market.

Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

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From: justis...@yahoo.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc
Subject: Re:_[Wargamer]_Hasbro_CEO_optimistic_about_AI_in_Dn
D_and_MTG’s_future
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 10:54:13 -0700
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 20 Mar 2024 17:54 UTC

On 3/19/2024 7:29 PM, gbbgu wrote:
> On 14 Mar 2024, kyonshi wrote:
>
>> Source: https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions

> I have almost 40 5e books, and if they're just going to use AI to make them,
> what's the point of buying them. I'm not interested in that at all.

Good point, you too can just have AI create you books for free in that case.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / Re: [Wargamer] Hasbro CEO optimistic about AI in DnD and MTG’s future

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