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interests / alt.language.latin / Re: Silbermann

SubjectAuthor
* Re: SilbermannEd Cryer
`- Re: SilbermannA.T. Murray

1
Re: Silbermann

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Silbermann
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:03:37 +0000
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 by: Ed Cryer - Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:03 UTC

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> olympia...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 2:04:25 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> A.T. Murray wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 12:31:44 PM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>>>> Silbermann - Jacques De Lacretelle
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Me valde percussit, quia eram et ego ingeniosior maioritate hominum
>>>>>> invidiamque plebis sentiebam.
>>>>> Collaborare nolo cum Hominibus Sapientibus.
>>>>> Nolo contendere cum expertis quando ipse sum incipiens fatuus et
>>>>> ignorans.
>>>>> Mea existentia in vestra Terra Incognita non est communicabilis.
>>>>> https://ai.neocities.org/mens.html -- Magnum Opus meum et
>>>>> incommunicabile.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mentifex
>>>>> Fortunatam Natam Me Gigolo Feminam
>>>> His nostris diebus mos est stupidum stultumque se praebere hominibus.
>>>> Mihi tamen videtur hic mos ipse esse stupidus stultusque, praecipue cum
>>>> de intelligentia artificiali praedita accessu ad Interrete tractatur.
>>>>
>>>> Edus
>>>
>>> I hope you are coming around to the view the AI is just the shadow
>>> side of natural stupidity, Ede.
>>> It sounds like Mentifex, with his response, is channeling his Monster
>>> Brain without a soul.
>>>
>>> graphema conexum et directum quod e cellulis cerebralibus constat.
>>> Cerebrum virtuale est cui nihil inest nisi vocabula dissoluta et
>>> silentia (hoc est litteris exarata) Echus vocum inter se non audiunt.
>>>
>>> I don't understand that "Fortunatam Natam Me Gigolo Feminam" but
>>> Mentifex might have read Richard Power's novel _Galatea 2.2_ in the
>>> meantime and given his creation a sex change.*
>>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatea_2.2 for synopsis.
>>>
>>> p.s. gigolo = scurra, comes vēnalis <cf. escort>; amasius conducticius
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, Ede, I have been astounded  by the similarity I see in our
>>> reading history.  Two exceptions are
>>> "The cloister and the hearth" of which I had heard but never looked
>>> into and most recently "Silberman."  Kavalier and Clay I never
>>> finished but it had my interest for a few hundred pages.
>>>
>>> Now I'm going to stick with Latin version of the latter, at least for
>>> a while:
>>>
>>> "
>>> En troisième on passait au grand lycée. Il occupait la moitié de
>>> l’établissement et était identique à la partie où j’avais fait mes
>>> études pendant quatre années. Même cour carrée, plantée de quelques
>>> arbres, dont faisait le tour une haute galerie couverte, élargie à un
>>> endroit pour former préau : même disposition des classes tout du long
>>> de cette galerie ; et sur les murs, entre les fenêtres, semblables
>>> moulages de bas-reliefs antiques.
>>>
>>> In forma tertia (gradu nono) ad scholam magnam secundariam ivimus.
>>> Haec mediam partem instituti occupabat ubi quatuor annos studui.
>>> Eadem cohors quadrata, paucis arboribus consita, alta circumdata
>>> cryptoporticu, uno loco amplificata ut area lusui dicata: eadem
>>> dispositio classium juxta longitudinem huius porticus; et inter
>>> fenestras similia anaglypta gypsata antiqua.
>>> "
>>> *  I have given myself one (virtually) with an identity I use on
>>> Twitter  via the Tor browser. Follow me there..
>>>
>>> Btraven
>>
>> You'll probably applaud other books I've read recently; Sophie's
>> Choice, The Book Thief, oh and watching Simon Scharma's latest TV
>> series - History of Now - wherein he's pouring his heart out on screen
>> at how the world has abandoned the liberal ideology that he grew up with.
>> I grew up in the shadow of WWII. Every time you switched TV on,
>> there'd be images of the death camps. One video that the BBC repeated
>> almost daily (you probably got it in the USA as well) was of
>> bombed-out Berlin; starting with a still shot and then the camera
>> would pull back and you'd see thousands and thousands of building
>> shells, extending for tens of miles, and looking like cancered cells.
>> And all the while they'd play Siegfried's funeral march from Wagner's
>> Götterdämmerung.
>> This is scorched on my conscious mind; God knows how deeply it's
>> embedded in my sub-conscious.
>> Mind you, Simon Scharma was born in London in February 1945, while the
>> doodle-bugs and V2 rockets rained down on it. And he's Jewish.
>>
>> I've got a question for Simon Scharma; one that I've puzzled over for
>> decades. Why did the Germans put those Arschlöcher in power? They were
>> a democracy; and they voted for totalitarianism. Germans! Such a
>> cultured people; the heirs of Goethe, Beethoven and Thomas Mann. The
>> usual facile answer "because of previous defeats and humiliations"
>> doesn't satisfy me. I suspect fear; fear of just what those
>> brown-shirted thugs could do if denied.
>> Has any other democracy ever voted itself out? Athens got sucked into
>> the Macedonian empire; Rome's Republic fell to internecine warfare
>> within its aristocracy.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> P.S. I have a little sympathy with AI. This sympathy's based on a
>> scientific theory of mind; that it's an emergent property, possibly
>> triggered in highly complex systems.
>> Maybe if we should run Windows 7, 8, 10, 11 and Linux plus android
>> simultaneously on a Threadripper, a little voice might suddenly say
>> "Hello".
>>
>>
>
> In 1965 a mate and I went hitch-hiking through Germany. We were heading
> for Rome, with the intention of coming back home through southern France
> and then up through France. A pre-university time for both of us. We
> expected lots of antagonism and hatred through Deutschland.
> We crossed the Channel to Ostend, got a lift through to the German
> border at Aachen and there a woman in a battered old VW gave us a lift
> into Düsseldorf. She was fantastic; said she'd picked us up because she
> had a son studying in England, got us singing Beatles numbers as we
> rolled along, put us up for the night in her house, gave us breakfast
> and introduced us to her broad family next day, and then drove us into
> Cologne, took us round the cathedral, bought us a meal and dropped us
> out on the south-bound autobahn. She wrote letters to me for years. I
> still have a picture of her and her family.
> We travelled all the way down the Rhine, through Frankfurt, Mannheim,
> the Black Forest and into Switzerland. All the little villages along the
> Rhine. And everywhere we went we met great people. We'd be sitting in a
> pub, talking English, and some waiter would come with a plate of chips
> or two beers, sent by total strangers across the room.
> My mate, Peter, had long hair like a Beatle, and we'd be standing
> alongside some road thumbing a lift when a coachload of Deutschen would
> scream to a halt with cries of "Die Beatles! Die Beatles!".
> Where were the SS guards? Where were the assholes who'd managed the
> cattle-trucks and poured the poison gas into the chambers at Auschwitz?
> The nearest I saw was an old man, about 70, who came hobbling alongside
> us while we were thumbing a lift. He stopped, gazed at us, waved his
> stick and cursed us in German. And then moved on. OK, so maybe his son
> got shot down over England, put in a prisoner camp and then what? And
> while we were sleeping on benches on Frankfurt station, a guard shouted
> us awake at 5-00 am.
>
> It's difficult to pinpoint the evil. You need some cloven-hoofed SOB to
> play the part; and you get normal families with kids who could charm the
> worst of us with their innocence.
>
> I still have all the trauma of Nazi Germany coiled inside me, but I have
> no focal point for it; nowhere to aim it at. If I aim it at Germany, I'm
> aiming it at the kind of people I defend over here.
>
> Ed
>
>
I went in search of that BBC video; couldn't find it, but came up with
something infinitely better. Vide infra;
https://tinyurl.com/2mucxxac

Click here to read the complete article

Re: Silbermann

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Subject: Re: Silbermann
From: mentific...@gmail.com (A.T. Murray)
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 by: A.T. Murray - Wed, 21 Dec 2022 06:55 UTC

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 11:05:46 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
> > Ed Cryer wrote:
> >> olympia...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 2:04:25 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
> >>>> A.T. Murray wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 12:31:44 PM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
> >>>>>> Silbermann - Jacques De Lacretelle
> >>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>> Me valde percussit, quia eram et ego ingeniosior maioritate hominum
> >>>>>> invidiamque plebis sentiebam.
> >>>>> Collaborare nolo cum Hominibus Sapientibus.
> >>>>> Nolo contendere cum expertis quando ipse sum incipiens fatuus et
> >>>>> ignorans.
> >>>>> Mea existentia in vestra Terra Incognita non est communicabilis.
> >>>>> https://ai.neocities.org/mens.html -- Magnum Opus meum et
> >>>>> incommunicabile.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mentifex
> >>>>> Fortunatam Natam Me Gigolo Feminam
> >>>> His nostris diebus mos est stupidum stultumque se praebere hominibus..
> >>>> Mihi tamen videtur hic mos ipse esse stupidus stultusque, praecipue cum
> >>>> de intelligentia artificiali praedita accessu ad Interrete tractatur..
> >>>>
> >>>> Edus
> >>>
> >>> I hope you are coming around to the view the AI is just the shadow
> >>> side of natural stupidity, Ede.
> >>> It sounds like Mentifex, with his response, is channeling his Monster
> >>> Brain without a soul.
> >>>
> >>> graphema conexum et directum quod e cellulis cerebralibus constat.
> >>> Cerebrum virtuale est cui nihil inest nisi vocabula dissoluta et
> >>> silentia (hoc est litteris exarata) Echus vocum inter se non audiunt.
> >>>
> >>> I don't understand that "Fortunatam Natam Me Gigolo Feminam" but
> >>> Mentifex might have read Richard Power's novel _Galatea 2.2_ in the
> >>> meantime and given his creation a sex change.*
> >>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatea_2.2 for synopsis.
> >>>
> >>> p.s. gigolo = scurra, comes vēnalis <cf. escort>; amasius conducticius
> >>>
> >>> Meanwhile, Ede, I have been astounded by the similarity I see in our
> >>> reading history. Two exceptions are
> >>> "The cloister and the hearth" of which I had heard but never looked
> >>> into and most recently "Silberman." Kavalier and Clay I never
> >>> finished but it had my interest for a few hundred pages.
> >>>
> >>> Now I'm going to stick with Latin version of the latter, at least for
> >>> a while:
> >>>
> >>> "
> >>> En troisième on passait au grand lycée. Il occupait la moitié de
> >>> l’établissement et était identique à la partie où j’avais fait mes
> >>> études pendant quatre années. Même cour carrée, plantée de quelques
> >>> arbres, dont faisait le tour une haute galerie couverte, élargie à un
> >>> endroit pour former préau : même disposition des classes tout du long
> >>> de cette galerie ; et sur les murs, entre les fenêtres, semblables
> >>> moulages de bas-reliefs antiques.
> >>>
> >>> In forma tertia (gradu nono) ad scholam magnam secundariam ivimus.
> >>> Haec mediam partem instituti occupabat ubi quatuor annos studui.
> >>> Eadem cohors quadrata, paucis arboribus consita, alta circumdata
> >>> cryptoporticu, uno loco amplificata ut area lusui dicata: eadem
> >>> dispositio classium juxta longitudinem huius porticus; et inter
> >>> fenestras similia anaglypta gypsata antiqua.
> >>> "
> >>> * I have given myself one (virtually) with an identity I use on
> >>> Twitter via the Tor browser. Follow me there..
> >>>
> >>> Btraven
> >>
> >> You'll probably applaud other books I've read recently; Sophie's
> >> Choice, The Book Thief, oh and watching Simon Scharma's latest TV
> >> series - History of Now - wherein he's pouring his heart out on screen
> >> at how the world has abandoned the liberal ideology that he grew up with.
> >> I grew up in the shadow of WWII. Every time you switched TV on,
> >> there'd be images of the death camps. One video that the BBC repeated
> >> almost daily (you probably got it in the USA as well) was of
> >> bombed-out Berlin; starting with a still shot and then the camera
> >> would pull back and you'd see thousands and thousands of building
> >> shells, extending for tens of miles, and looking like cancered cells.
> >> And all the while they'd play Siegfried's funeral march from Wagner's
> >> Götterdämmerung.
> >> This is scorched on my conscious mind; God knows how deeply it's
> >> embedded in my sub-conscious.
> >> Mind you, Simon Scharma was born in London in February 1945, while the
> >> doodle-bugs and V2 rockets rained down on it. And he's Jewish.
> >>
> >> I've got a question for Simon Scharma; one that I've puzzled over for
> >> decades. Why did the Germans put those Arschlöcher in power? They were
> >> a democracy; and they voted for totalitarianism. Germans! Such a
> >> cultured people; the heirs of Goethe, Beethoven and Thomas Mann. The
> >> usual facile answer "because of previous defeats and humiliations"
> >> doesn't satisfy me. I suspect fear; fear of just what those
> >> brown-shirted thugs could do if denied.
> >> Has any other democracy ever voted itself out? Athens got sucked into
> >> the Macedonian empire; Rome's Republic fell to internecine warfare
> >> within its aristocracy.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >> P.S. I have a little sympathy with AI. This sympathy's based on a
> >> scientific theory of mind; that it's an emergent property, possibly
> >> triggered in highly complex systems.
> >> Maybe if we should run Windows 7, 8, 10, 11 and Linux plus android
> >> simultaneously on a Threadripper, a little voice might suddenly say
> >> "Hello".
> >>
> >>
> >
> > In 1965 a mate and I went hitch-hiking through Germany. We were heading
> > for Rome, with the intention of coming back home through southern France
> > and then up through France. A pre-university time for both of us. We
> > expected lots of antagonism and hatred through Deutschland.
> > We crossed the Channel to Ostend, got a lift through to the German
> > border at Aachen and there a woman in a battered old VW gave us a lift
> > into Düsseldorf. She was fantastic; said she'd picked us up because she
> > had a son studying in England, got us singing Beatles numbers as we
> > rolled along, put us up for the night in her house, gave us breakfast
> > and introduced us to her broad family next day, and then drove us into
> > Cologne, took us round the cathedral, bought us a meal and dropped us
> > out on the south-bound autobahn. She wrote letters to me for years. I
> > still have a picture of her and her family.
> > We travelled all the way down the Rhine, through Frankfurt, Mannheim,
> > the Black Forest and into Switzerland. All the little villages along the
> > Rhine. And everywhere we went we met great people. We'd be sitting in a
> > pub, talking English, and some waiter would come with a plate of chips
> > or two beers, sent by total strangers across the room.
> > My mate, Peter, had long hair like a Beatle, and we'd be standing
> > alongside some road thumbing a lift when a coachload of Deutschen would
> > scream to a halt with cries of "Die Beatles! Die Beatles!".
> > Where were the SS guards? Where were the assholes who'd managed the
> > cattle-trucks and poured the poison gas into the chambers at Auschwitz?
> > The nearest I saw was an old man, about 70, who came hobbling alongside
> > us while we were thumbing a lift. He stopped, gazed at us, waved his
> > stick and cursed us in German. And then moved on. OK, so maybe his son
> > got shot down over England, put in a prisoner camp and then what? And
> > while we were sleeping on benches on Frankfurt station, a guard shouted
> > us awake at 5-00 am.
> >
> > It's difficult to pinpoint the evil. You need some cloven-hoofed SOB to
> > play the part; and you get normal families with kids who could charm the
> > worst of us with their innocence.
> >
> > I still have all the trauma of Nazi Germany coiled inside me, but I have
> > no focal point for it; nowhere to aim it at. If I aim it at Germany, I'm
> > aiming it at the kind of people I defend over here.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> I went in search of that BBC video; couldn't find it, but came up with
> something infinitely better. Vide infra;
> https://tinyurl.com/2mucxxac
>
> All taken in Berlin in July 1945 — just two months after the Nazi defeat.
> Notice the Russian soldiers with their big portrait of Joe Stalin.
> Look at the Germans, coping amidst impossible odds. Can you hate them?
> Even the blond, blue-eyed ones? I can't; my heart goes out to them.
> Maybe it shouldn't; maybe I'm a sucker, one of the first to fall when
> assholishness comes to power.
> Amidst all those are the ones who rounded up Jews into the ghettoes;
> knocked on their doors at midnight; terrorised Jews, gypsies,
> homosexuals and anybody else they might like to stand over. And the vast
> numbers who turned their eyes away; away from the smashed windows, the
> "Juden Raus" signs, the ratta-tat-tat of the trains on the railways
> heading east to the death camps.
>
> I still find it impossible to arrange my feelings into any sort of
> order; love, hate, pity, leave-me-alone; it's all too big to deal with.
> The evil is too big, the stoic endurance of the survivors is too big,
> the fall into Cold War and the split of Berlin in the hands of the
> liberators is too big. Yes, you can handle it with reason; you can
> discuss right and wrong, you can satisfy the cognitive half of your
> mind, but the half where emotions rule becomes a seething mass of
> unresolved mess where there's no resolution.
>
> Ed
Ad Germaniam perveni in anno 1969 et miles eram in exercitu Americano.
Labor meus erat cum nuclearibus armis.
Meus novus amicus Germanicus etiamdum in schola erat
et adjuvabam eum in ejus studiis Latinis.
Volebam et tunc perficere Intelligentiam Artificialem at valde serius
https://ai.neocities.org/mens.html
intravit in hunc mundum.
In recentioribus temporibus video juvenes homines at
nullum bonum futurum video pro eis.
Vellem aliquid pro hominibus facere sed nescio quid possim facere.
DIS ALITER VISUM? Sperandum est.


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