I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating
the following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896

"Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem
illo­rum usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."

The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of
"eorum consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman) citizen"
in classical Latin, but certainly something different in the
middle ages.

me@privacy.net wrote:
> I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating the
> following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
>
> "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
> facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
> hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem illo­rum
> usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
>
>
> The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of "eorum
> consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman) citizen" in classical
> Latin, but certainly something different in the middle ages.
>
"The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as Ungari);
because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose up against them
with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their land pushing them up
to the gate of Constantinople."
A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily a
city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city with farms
and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it blossomed in
meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote about the "Civitas
Dei" (the civitas of God).
I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the word
"concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me: "et ceteris
quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all other foreign
nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means "compatriots" there.
You might find this site interesting;
(http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
Ed

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 4:16:12 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating the
> > following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
> >
> > "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
> > facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
> > hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem illo­rum
> > usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
> >
> >
> > The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of "eorum
> > consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman) citizen" in classical
> > Latin, but certainly something different in the middle ages.
> >
> "The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as Ungari);
> because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose up against them
> with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their land pushing them up
> to the gate of Constantinople."
>
> A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily a
> city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city with farms
> and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it blossomed in
> meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote about the "Civitas
> Dei" (the civitas of God).
>
> I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the word
> "concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me: "et ceteris
> quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all other foreign
> nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means "compatriots" there.
>
> You might find this site interesting;
> (http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
>
> Ed

Thank you, Ed, for giving such a good answer.

Mentifex (Arthur)

Ed Cryer wrote:
> me@privacy.net wrote:
>> I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating
>> the following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
>>
>> "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
>> facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
>> hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem
>> illo­rum usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
>>
>>
>> The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of
>> "eorum consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman)
>> citizen" in classical Latin, but certainly something different
>> in the middle ages.
>>
>
> "The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as
> Ungari); because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose
> up against them with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their
> land pushing them up to the gate of Constantinople."
>
> A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily
> a city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city
> with farms and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it
> blossomed in meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote
> about the "Civitas Dei" (the civitas of God).
>
> I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the
> word "concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me:
> "et ceteris quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all
> other foreign nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means
> "compatriots" there.
>
> You might find this site interesting;
> (http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
>
> Ed

Thank you for your explanation. I'm not sure that the word
"compatriots" is really applicable, given the fact that Ungari and
Bulgari lived in two different semi-nomadic states, and were often
hostile to each other. However, they had the same origin,
consequences of which is denied by many historians. Secretly I
hoped that someone can confirm my bias and the latin word
"consives" would means something like "conceaved together".
(Probably a silly idea...)

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> me@privacy.net wrote:
>>> I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating the
>>> following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
>>>
>>> "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
>>> facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
>>> hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem illo­rum
>>> usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
>>>
>>>
>>> The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of
>>> "eorum consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman) citizen" in
>>> classical Latin, but certainly something different in the middle ages.
>>>
>>
>> "The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as
>> Ungari); because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose up
>> against them with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their land
>> pushing them up to the gate of Constantinople."
>>
>> A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily a
>> city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city with
>> farms and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it blossomed
>> in meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote about the
>> "Civitas Dei" (the civitas of God).
>>
>> I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the
>> word "concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me: "et
>> ceteris quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all other
>> foreign nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means
>> "compatriots" there.
>>
>> You might find this site interesting;
>> (http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
>>
>> Ed
>
> Thank you for your explanation. I'm not sure that the word "compatriots"
> is really applicable, given the fact that Ungari and Bulgari lived in
> two different semi-nomadic states, and were often hostile to each other.
> However, they had the same origin, consequences of which is denied by
> many historians. Secretly I hoped that someone can confirm my bias and
> the latin word "consives" would means something like "conceaved
> together". (Probably a silly idea...)
>
>
At the end of Annales Fuldenses there's a Glossary; it says "concives" =
"vicini" (neighbours).
Ah, ah. Whoever wrote that glossary took the easiest way out!
The territorial political units at the time point to the borders of the
Byzantine Empire and the first Bulgarian Empire.
https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/900/index.html
A choice of two "civitates".
Ed