On Tuesday, November 28, 2006 at 1:06:19 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:
> Some more clues have turned up to help sort out this particular line:
> I wrote:
> > > The biographies in HoP Commons 1386-1421 for John Merbury and others
> > > give the following Pembridge information:
> > >
> > > 1. Sir John Pembridge of Pembridge=Elizabeth, had:
> > >
> > > 2. Alice, daughter and heiress, d.1415=(1) Edmund de la Bere, (2)
> > > Thomas Oldcastle of Eyton MP d.1398/9, (3) John Merbury of Weobley MP
> > > d.1438 (as his first wife). Alice had issue:
> > >
> > > 3a. Richard Oldcastle dsp 1421
> > > 3b. Wintelan (Gwenllian, aka Joan) Oldcastle b.1392= Sir Robert Whitney
> > > of Whitney MP (d.1443), with issue.
> > > 3c. Isabel= Walter Hackluyt, with issue.
> > > 3d. Elizabeth Merbury, d&h of John,=Sir Walter Devereux of Bodenham
> > > (1411-1459), with issue.
> > >
> > > There's a useful document on Chris Phillips' site at
> > > www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_83_49.shtml#28
> > > dated 1385, which involves Thomas Oldcastle and Alice his wife and
> > > mentions "Elizabeth who was the wife of John Penbrugge kt" holding
> > > lands for life. This tells us that John was dead by then and confirms
> > > his wife's name as Elizabeth; also that Alice was on her second
> > > marriage by that date. The places mentioned are the manors of "Boghrade
> > > and Treweryn" and lands in "Eton', Boghrade and Borghulle".
> There's another document from later in 1385 in the Patent Rolls, RIII
> vol 3 p.52, a pardon that again mentions "Thomas Oldecastell and Alice,
> his wife", "the manor of Boghrad and Treweryn" and lands in "Eton
> Boghrad, held in chief, whereof Elizabeth late the wife of John de
> Penbrugge, knight, was tenant for life, and which was part of the
> inheritance of the said Alice".
> > > This ties in neatly with something in the National Archives
> > > (C143/315/17):
> > > "John son of Edward de Penebrugge to settle the manors of Bouthrede and
> > > Eaton [in Leominster] on himself, Elzabeth his wife and his heirs,
> > > retaining the manor of Burghill. Hereford. 28 EIII" (1354-5). The
> > > continuity of place and wife suggest this is the same John as above, so
> > > he is son of an Edward.
> Again supported by the Patent Rolls: (EIII 10 p.344) Feb 1 1356:
> "Licence, for 100s. to be paid to the king by John son of Edward de
> Penebrugge, for him to enfeoff Robert Whiteney and Thomas de Hampton of
> the manors of Bouthrede and Eton, co. Hereford, held of the king in
> chief, and for them to grant the same to him and Elizabeth, his wife,
> and his heirs."
> > A grant by "Elizabeth, wife of Sir Jno. Penebrugge, to William ap
> > Richard and John ap Richard of lands &c. in Gweligwimiethe, 26 EIII
> > (1352)" appears in 'Bibliotheca Phillippica' (1903) p151 no.1187 (On
> > Google Books). [If Elizabeth was of Welsh extraction it might explain
> > her grandaughter being named Wenllian.]
> >
> > > "Edward de Penbrigg" had a grant from Edward III for a market and fair
> > > at Boughrood, 5 Oct 1335 (see www.history.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/wales.html#Bou )
> > >
> > > An "Edward de Penebrugge" seems to have held land in
> > > Westbury-on-Severn, Glos. in 1349 at the death of Nicholas de Gamage
> > > (see www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=15766 ).
> >
> > Thinking about the chronology, I now suspect that the Edward above
> > would be of a younger generation than the one below.
> Indeed he was, as the one below was dsp in 1306.
> > > There is an earlier record of Edward de P with a brother called John
> > > (NA, C/143/36/7): John de Penebrugge to grant a rent in Meon, which he
> > > holds of the king in chief, to Edward his brother, retaining rent
> > > there. Glouc. 29EI (1300-1).
> This Edward had an IPM in 1306, when it was stated that he "died
> without heirs of his body, whereof the said rent [in Meon] ought to
> revert to the said John de Pennebrugg. The said John is the brother and
> next heir of the said Edward, and is aged 40 years and more."
> There is more information on this earlier John summarised in Rev.
> Charles Moor's 'Knights of Edward I' vol 4 (Harl. Soc. 83) p.32,
> including that he was s & h of Elizabeth de P, dec., and had livery of
> her lands 6 Aug 1309; he was a lord of Eyton and Burghill, Herefs. 5
> Mar 1316; his IPM was 4 Feb 1331, when he held "Bouwered, Eton, and
> Borwehulle" hamlets and left a s & h Edward, aged 26. We can be
> reasonably sure by the devolution of the manors that this latter Edward
> was the father of the later Sir John. [This Edward's birthdate of
> c.1305 may mean he was John's son by Joan Hawey, whose first husband
> Sir Peter Stradling is thought to have died about then; if so, he would
> be a half-brother of Sir Edward Stradling.]
> > > This seems to connect with C/143/133/3:
> > > Fulk de Penbrugge to retain the manor of Mune acquired by him from John
> > > de Penbrugge. Glouc. 11EII (1317-8). This Fulk is presumably the one
> > > with dates 1291-1326. Again I'm not sure where Meon/Mune is if it's in
> > > Glos.
> >
> > This seems to give the answer: E 210/2115. Henry son of Ralph de
> > Penebruge to Payn his son; grant of his manor of Meon [in Quinton],
> > (Mune): Glos (no date). The villages of Lower and Upper Quinton are
> > indeed on Meon Hill, and were in Gloucestershire until 1931 apparently
> > (now in Warwickshire).
> Although that charter is undated, we have a 1281 reference to "Payn de
> Painsbrugge" as tenant of "Boghred", in a dispute with Ralph de "Touny"
> (CPR EI vol.2 p.43). This dispute turns out to have a long history- in
> 1258 mention is made of "trespasses and excesses committed against
> Roger de Mortuo Mari and Henry de Penbregg in the parts of Wales by
> Roger de Thony, Richard de Thunderle and Alan, Constable of
> Painscastle" (CPR HIII 4 p.664); in 1254 "Henry de Penebrugg and
> Elizabeth his wife, and Lucy and Eufemia her sisters, have shown that
> Richard de Tunderle disseised Godfrey de Gamages, father of the said
> Elizabeth, Lucy and Eufemia, whose heirs they are, of the land of
> Trewarn"; the argument being whether the said land was part of the
> Honour of Painscastle (ie de Tony land) or "of the honour of Boghred,
> which the said Godfrey held in chief". The dispute had started by 1252,
> when Godfrey de Gamages and Richard de Tunderle were the parties.
> There was an inquisition in 1253 "to ascertain whether Henry de
> Penebrigg was seised of the manor of Meone and of 10 librates of land
> in Dimmokes, which were of Godfrey de Gameages in the time of the said
> Godfrey". So Meon was also a Gamage inheritance.
> The implications of all this are that Eyton didn't have one Henry too
> few in his Pembruge pedigree (as I conjectured before), but one too
> many, as it was evidently the elder Henry who married Elizabeth Gamages
> (as a second marriage), while afterwards securing the other heiresses
> for his sons by his earlier wife (perhaps Joan Fitzwarin, as mentioned
> before; Henry's son and heir (by the first wife), also Henry, was
> admitted to the king's peace in 1268 "by mainprise of Fulk son of Warin
> of the county of Salop"- CPR HIII 6 p.273); it also means that the
> elder branch (later of Tong, a quo Vernons) don't have the Gamage and
> Mynors ancestry, and indeed they didn't inherit any of the lands.
> The line looks to go something like this (sons may not be in correct
> birth order):
> 1.Ralph de Pembridge (maybe the 1216 one, I should have more info soon)
> 2.Sir Henry de Pembridge, dcd Aug 1271
> +(1) [Joan dau Fulk III Fitzwarin?] dcd 1253
> 3a.Henry d.1279
> +[?(1) Lucy de Gamages c.1254, dcd 1263 sp]
> +(1/2)Orabel de Harcourt, with issue
> +(2/3)Alice, liv.1312
> 3b.William d.1317
> +Euphemia de Gamages, with issue
> [?3c.Fulk, who bought marriage of Henry jr's heir 1285]
> 2.Henry dcd 1271, as above;
> +(2) Elizabeth de Gamages c.1253, dcd 1309
> 3d.Payn liv.1281 [pres. dsp]
> 3e.Sir John, b by 1266, dcd 1331
> +[Joan (Hawey) Stradling?]
> 4.Edward bc.1305, liv.1335, 1349?
> +NN
> 5.Sir John liv.1356 dcd 1385
> +Elizabeth liv.1385
> 6.Alice d.1415, married with issue as at top of post.
> 3f.Edward dsp 1306
> 3g.Godfrey liv.1267
> -Matthew