https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13264777/White-House-directs-NASA-create-time-standard-moon.html

Biden directs NASA to create a standard moon time by 2026 as
nations prepare to setup bases on the lunar surface

The White House directed NASA to create a standard moon time for
all nations

The change would ensure accurate data transfers between spacecraft

.. . .

"For all nations" ??? What if Russia and/or China don't
like it ??? NASA is a biggie, but doesn't run the world
or the moon.

Also, a "lunar day" isn't quite like an Earth day - it
varies because the moon has a somewhat elliptical orbit
around Earth plus some other complicating details. Also
it does not "rotate", at least relative to Earth, so
we can't measure a "day" in that fashion. In short, it's
MESSY and for sci/tech purposes we can't HAVE "messy".

Now next week we will decidedly see a 'lunar night' on
the face we can see during the total eclipse. All the
light will be on the other side.
'
Perhaps it's best to just use GMT ... start the clock at
the peak of the full moon and go from there. It can all
be designated as ONE "time zone" too. Over time midnight
will drift away from that full-moon-over-Greenwich mark,
but so what - it'd still be a Lunar Standard Time. The
simpler tact is to NOT create a LST and just have
everyone use GMT, with no relation to light/dark on the
actual moon.

In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13264777/White-House-directs-NASA-create-time-standard-moon.html
>
> Biden directs NASA to create a standard moon time by 2026 as
> nations prepare to setup bases on the lunar surface
>
> The White House directed NASA to create a standard moon time for
> all nations
>
> The change would ensure accurate data transfers between spacecraft
....

If yor gunna setup a railway you have to have standardized times. ;)
One of the biggest things to come out of the UK railway system in
the 19th cent was every town in the UK gave up its local time
standard (usu the local town hall clock) and started using
a national standard time.

--
Northrop Grumman to Develop Concept for Lunar Railroad
Northrop Grumman, 19 Mar 2024
The goal is to establish an analytical framework for integrated lunar
infrastructure that minimizes lunar footprint and provides commercial ...

DARPA's Lunar Railroad is the Latest Saga in the DoD's Mysterious ...
The Debrief, 22 Mar 2024
DARPA's plans to build a lunar railroad are the latest manifestation of
the DoD's strategic obsession with the Moon.
[Nice quote in the article roughly "why now; what has changed?".
The USAF was offered the opportunity of a moon base in the 70s and
said it wasnt interested].

In 1830 then-PM Wellesley opened the first Liverpool to Manchester line.
Almost immediately there was a fatality -- Liverpool MP Wm Huskisson
(Tory) tried to cross the track just as "The Rocket" arrived.
It's a matter of debate whether the accident was caused by the fact Liverpool
and Manchester were then in different time zones, some 5 mins apart.
The Great Western Railway ushered in the era of standardised times.

On 4/2/24 15:55, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> DARPA's Lunar Railroad

Thank you. I had not noticed anything about that.

About 81,100 results (0.31 seconds)
Videos

1:56
DARPA Contract for Lunar Railway Awarded to Northrop ...
YouTube · Kalil 4.0
1 day ago

8:52
The Great Lunar Railroad: DARPA /Northrop Grumman Project.
YouTube · TechWiki
5 days ago

0:39
The Great Lunar Railroad: DARPA /Northrop Grumman Project.
YouTube · TechWiki
5 days ago
Feedback
View all

Northrop Grumman to Develop Concept for Lunar Railroad

Northrop Grumman Newsroom
https://news.northropgrumman.com › news › releases
Mar 19, 2024 — – March 19, 2024 – Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:
NOC) has been selected by DARPA to further develop the concept of
building a moon-based ...

DARPA and Northrop Grumman's railway on the Moon

New Atlas
https://newatlas.com › space › northrop-grumman-moo...
Mar 21, 2024 — Northrop Grumman wins DARPA contract for a railway on the
Moon ... In preparation for a permanent human colony on the Moon, DARPA
has awarded a ...

DARPA picks Northrop Grumman to develop 'lunar raiload' ...

Space.com
https://www.space.com › darpa-northrop-grumman-mo...
Mar 19, 2024 — Aerospace giant Northrop Grumman is outlining a proposed
railway system for the moon, with support from the U.S. Defense Advanced
Research ...

Northrop, DARPA envision moon 'railroad' for lunar logistics

Defense News
https://www.defensenews.com › space › 2024/03/19 › n...
Mar 19, 2024 — “The envisioned lunar railroad network could transport
humans, supplies and resources for commercial ventures across the lunar
surface — ...

The government is funding a project to put a train on ...

Fast Company
https://www.fastcompany.com › the-government-is-fun...
Mar 22, 2024 — The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
tapped Northrop Grumman to develop a concept for a lunar railroad, the
defense prime ...

A Framework for Optimized, Integrated Lunar Infrastructure

Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (.mil)
https://www.darpa.mil › news-events
Aug 15, 2023 — A Framework for Optimized, Integrated Lunar
Infrastructure. DARPA study to identify risks, commercial solutions over
coming decade to enable ...
People also ask

On 4/2/24 6:55 PM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13264777/White-House-directs-NASA-create-time-standard-moon.html
>>
>> Biden directs NASA to create a standard moon time by 2026 as
>> nations prepare to setup bases on the lunar surface
>>
>> The White House directed NASA to create a standard moon time for
>> all nations
>>
>> The change would ensure accurate data transfers between spacecraft
> ...
>
>
> If yor gunna setup a railway you have to have standardized times. ;)
> One of the biggest things to come out of the UK railway system in
> the 19th cent was every town in the UK gave up its local time
> standard (usu the local town hall clock) and started using
> a national standard time.

Agreed for functional reasons - but again, HOW do you
create a Lunar Standard Time ???

I'm gonna stick with my suggestion to NOT do so - just
use GMT and start the lunar clock at whatever arbitrary
moment is convenient. The lunar orbit and all the
annoying little things that affect it makes any lunar-
centric approach ridiculous.

GMT has become a LONG-time standard, known, respected,
universally used. That little time thing in your task
bar will be exactly synchronized with GMT, just x-hours
different depending. Greenwich plus the US Naval Observatory
keep 'perfect' time for the world.

Ok ... Einstein and variations in Earth's rotation DO mess
that up - but just a tad .....

On 4/2/24 7:24 PM, a425couple wrote:
> On 4/2/24 15:55, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>> DARPA's Lunar Railroad
>
> Thank you.  I had not noticed anything about that.
>
> About 81,100 results (0.31 seconds)
> Videos
>
> 1:56
> DARPA Contract for Lunar Railway Awarded to Northrop ...
> YouTube · Kalil 4.0
> 1 day ago
>
> 8:52
> The Great Lunar Railroad: DARPA /Northrop Grumman Project.
> YouTube · TechWiki
> 5 days ago
>
> 0:39
> The Great Lunar Railroad: DARPA /Northrop Grumman Project.
> YouTube · TechWiki
> 5 days ago
> Feedback
> View all
>
> Northrop Grumman to Develop Concept for Lunar Railroad
>
> Northrop Grumman Newsroom
> https://news.northropgrumman.com › news › releases
> Mar 19, 2024 — – March 19, 2024 – Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:
> NOC) has been selected by DARPA to further develop the concept of
> building a moon-based ...
>
> DARPA and Northrop Grumman's railway on the Moon
>
> New Atlas
> https://newatlas.com › space › northrop-grumman-moo...
> Mar 21, 2024 — Northrop Grumman wins DARPA contract for a railway on the
> Moon ... In preparation for a permanent human colony on the Moon, DARPA
> has awarded a ...
>
> DARPA picks Northrop Grumman to develop 'lunar raiload' ...
>
> Space.com
> https://www.space.com › darpa-northrop-grumman-mo...
> Mar 19, 2024 — Aerospace giant Northrop Grumman is outlining a proposed
> railway system for the moon, with support from the U.S. Defense Advanced
> Research ...
>
> Northrop, DARPA envision moon 'railroad' for lunar logistics
>
> Defense News
> https://www.defensenews.com › space › 2024/03/19 › n...
> Mar 19, 2024 — “The envisioned lunar railroad network could transport
> humans, supplies and resources for commercial ventures across the lunar
> surface — ...
>
> The government is funding a project to put a train on ...
>
> Fast Company
> https://www.fastcompany.com › the-government-is-fun...
> Mar 22, 2024 — The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
> tapped Northrop Grumman to develop a concept for a lunar railroad, the
> defense prime ...
>
> A Framework for Optimized, Integrated Lunar Infrastructure
>
> Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (.mil)
> https://www.darpa.mil › news-events
> Aug 15, 2023 — A Framework for Optimized, Integrated Lunar
> Infrastructure. DARPA study to identify risks, commercial solutions over
> coming decade to enable ...
> People also ask

Well, they HAVE to "commission studies" ..... :-)

However, due to materials problems, I do not think a
"lunar railroad" will be possible. Some "lunar ROADS"
might be however ... use automated bots to clear away
rocks, fill in the holes. Solar-electric charged "moon
buggies and buses" can be used to move people and stuff
between relevant sites thereafter. Sorry Clarke/Kubrick
but FLYING transports will consume too much stuff. Even
at 1/6 gravity you're still talking a LOT of energy to
make something hover.

As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating
factors for a lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.

Biden (and surely most all of his staff/puppetmasters)
are going to be scientifically illiterate. They have
no hint of those "frustrating factors" - just want
the USA to be "first" in inventing a lunar time.

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:

> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.

Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.

In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.

Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
tell you which is which.

The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
(TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}

Navipedia should give all the gory details.

--
Denial is the simplest defense to understand. It is simply the refusal
to acknowledge what has, is, or will happen. "My partner didn't have
an affair, but was simply traveling for work a lot." A related defense
is Minimizing. When you minimize you technically accept what happened,
but only in a "watered down" form. "Sure, I have been drinking a bit
too much lately, but it's only due to stresses at work; I don't really
have a drinking problem since this is situational and not an inner
weakness or something."
-- http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library2/counseling/defenses.html

On 4/3/24 2:11 AM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
>> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.
>
> Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
> peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
> ("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
> The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
> tell you which is which.
>
> The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
> (TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
> as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}
>
> Navipedia should give all the gory details.

Well, there's the problem .... "gory" ....

"Simple/useful" would be to just use GMT.

"Days" apply best to PLANETS ... but for MOONS it
gets all wonky and hard to interpret. The whole
IDEA here is to get rid of "hard to interpret"
with the aim of minimizing mistakes.

In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/24 2:11 AM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>> In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>>>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>>>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
>>> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.
>>
>> Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
>> peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
>> ("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
>> The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
>> tell you which is which.
>>
>> The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
>> (TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
>> as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}
>>
>> Navipedia should give all the gory details.
>
> Well, there's the problem .... "gory" ....
....

Unfortunately everything is complicated.
If you dont take relativity into account then you can't get
a probe to its destination.

Even a satellite in LEO runs 45 microseconds slower than the "second:
measured by ground stations.
You tell the thing to do something at a given time it could be
hours or days out using simple methods.
If you promise to meet your wife in orbit in a billion years
you could be 45000 years out.

In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/24 2:11 AM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>> In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>>>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>>>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
>>> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.
>>
>> Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
>> peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
>> ("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
>> The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
>> tell you which is which.
>>
>> The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
>> (TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
>> as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}
>>
>> Navipedia should give all the gory details.
>
> Well, there's the problem .... "gory" ....
> "Simple/useful" would be to just use GMT.
>

Unfortunately space is complicated. You dont take every itty bitty
factor into account you have killed a crew or lost a probe that was
100s of km away from where it was supposde to be.

Even a "railway time" for the moon will have to take into account
moon time naturally runs different from earth time because of
(a) orbital speed (i.e. faster things have slower clocks) and
(b) gravity (i.e. earth time run slow compared with "free space").
While some of these effects run a millisec per year the errors add
and you just have to take everything into account otherwise someone on
earth is telling some robot in space to do something at the wrong time.

On 4/3/24 8:37 PM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
>> On 4/3/24 2:11 AM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>>> In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>>>>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>>>>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
>>>> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.
>>>
>>> Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
>>> peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
>>> ("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
>>> The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
>>> tell you which is which.
>>>
>>> The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
>>> (TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
>>> as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}
>>>
>>> Navipedia should give all the gory details.
>>
>> Well, there's the problem .... "gory" ....
> ...
>
> Unfortunately everything is complicated.

Um, NO, it does not HAVE to be AT ALL.

Is somebody PAYING you to hyper-complicate ???

Look, it's super-EASY. ALL of the moon is GMT.
Doesn't matter WHAT the complex light/dark
cycles may be. If the Supply Pod is due to
arrive at 19:00 then - no matter where -
that's when it arrives. No BS. No calx.

Humans will never be used to the 28.x day
light and dark cycles anyway. Sometimes
19:00 will be noon, sometimes twilight,
sometimes midnight.

Sans Alien claims, it's OUR moon. We set the
damned time as most convenient for US.

On 4/3/24 9:24 PM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.astronomy 68hx.1805 <68hx.1804@g5t7x.net> wrote:
>> On 4/3/24 2:11 AM, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>>> In alt.astronomy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:10:25 -0400, 68hx.1805 wrote:
>>>>> As for "Lunar Time" - forget it. Too many frustrating factors for a
>>>>> lunar-centric approach. Just use GMT.
>>>> Most of us set our reference clocks to UTC, not GMT.
>>>
>>> Astronomers have used various time standards to allow for
>>> peculiarities of specific planets and even relativistic effects
>>> ("clocks" run at difference speeds further from the sun).
>>> The array of them is getting dizzying and you need a lawyer to
>>> tell you which is which.
>>>
>>> The times in e.g. the Horizons ephemeris are in Barycentric Dynamic Time
>>> (TDB) but there is an allied ...Coordinate... (TCB) that might be used
>>> as a "spaceforce time". Maybe with more tweaks. :}
>>>
>>> Navipedia should give all the gory details.
>>
>> Well, there's the problem .... "gory" ....
>> "Simple/useful" would be to just use GMT.
>>
>
> Unfortunately space is complicated. You dont take every itty bitty
> factor into account you have killed a crew or lost a probe that was
> 100s of km away from where it was supposde to be.

And the super-EASY SOLUTION is to declare the Moon
to ALL be on GMT. 07:00.000 is fuckin 07:00.000
regardless. We do the SAME for the whole damned
solar system. All tech/schedule issues RESOLVED.