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interests / alt.english.usage / Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

SubjectAuthor
* "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
`* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
 `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
  `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
   `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
    `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
     +- Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"CDB
     `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
      +* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
      |+- Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
      |`* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"CDB
      | `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
      |  `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"CDB
      |   `- Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
      `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
       `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
        `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
         +- Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
         `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang
          `* Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Anton Shepelev
           `- Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"Mr. Man-wai Chang

1
"Lucky is not inevitable"

<t38ren$umh$3@toylet.eternal-september.org>

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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:01:49 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:01 UTC

"Lucky is not inevitable"

Is it correct in gramma? Better wordings?

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:15:35 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:15 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:

> "Lucky is not inevitable"
>
> Is it correct in gramma?

Yes.

> Better wordings?

If I knew the meaning of the original... Context and ex-
planations are not evitable.

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Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 23:59:07 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 15:59 UTC

On 14/4/2022 6:15 pm, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>
>> "Lucky is not inevitable"
>>
>> Is it correct in gramma?
>
> Yes.

Should it be "luck" or "lucky"? "luck" is a noun, while "lucky" is an
adjective.

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:07:21 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:07 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> Anton Shepelev:
> > Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> >
> > > "Lucky is not inevitable"
> > >
> > > Is it correct in gramma?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Should it be "luck" or "lucky"? "luck" is a noun,
> while "lucky" is an adjective.

Lucky of course. It is a standard name for a dog...

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Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 00:42:46 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:42 UTC

On 20/4/2022 12:07 am, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>
>> Should it be "luck" or "lucky"? "luck" is a noun,
>> while "lucky" is an adjective.
>
> Lucky of course. It is a standard name for a dog...
>

WHen you said something is inevitable, you don't describe an adjective...

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:55:10 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:55 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> Anton Shepelev:
> > Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> > > Anton Shepelev:
> > > > Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> > > >
> > > > > "Lucky is not inevitable"
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it correct in gramma?
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > >
> > > Should it be "luck" or "lucky"? "luck" is a noun,
> > > while "lucky" is an adjective.
> >
> > Lucky of course. It is a standard name for a dog...
>
> When you said something is inevitable, you don't de-
> scribe an adjective...

Of course not, I describe a dog named Lucky, in which
case `Lucky' is a noun. Futhermore, in your original
example Lucky is *not* inevitable. In other words, you
*can* avoid her, presumably by fleeing and hiding.

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Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:42:37 -0400
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 by: CDB - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:42 UTC

On 4/19/2022 12:55 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>> Anton Shepelev:
>>> Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>>>> Anton Shepelev:
>>>>> Mr. Man-wai Chang:

>>>>>> "Lucky is not inevitable"

>>>>>> Is it correct in gramma?

>>>>> Yes.

>>>> Should it be "luck" or "lucky"? "luck" is a noun, while
>>>> "lucky" is an adjective.

>>> Lucky of course. It is a standard name for a dog...

>> When you said something is inevitable, you don't de- scribe an
>> adjective...

> Of course not, I describe a dog named Lucky, in which case
> `Lucky' is a noun. Futhermore, in your original example Lucky is
> *not* inevitable. In other words, you *can* avoid her, presumably
> by fleeing and hiding.

No. She will hump your legs, leap and dance how you will.

Signore Luciano was much the same.

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:06:04 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:06 UTC

On 20/4/2022 12:55 am, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>
> Of course not, I describe a dog named Lucky, in which
> case `Lucky' is a noun. Futhermore, in your original
> example Lucky is *not* inevitable. In other words, you
> *can* avoid her, presumably by fleeing and hiding.

If Lucky was not a name but really talking about luck, is it still
correct in saying "Lucky is not inevitable"?

> If I knew the meaning of the original...
> Context and explanations are not evitable.

Someone's door was in fire but it was seen early by a guy and the fire
was put out. That same guy left an notice alerting the owner of the house...

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:27:12 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:27 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang to Anton Shepelev:

> If Lucky was not a name but really talking about luck,
> is it still correct in saying "Lucky is not in-
> evitable"?

Then it is neither grammatical nor meaningful. An ad-
jective must modify a noun -- explicit or implied,. e.g.
a sense of the beautiful.

You describe the context:

> Someone's door was in fire but it was seen early by a
> guy and the fire was put out. That same guy left an
> notice alerting the owner of the house...

And what message is the note supposed to convey? That
the tenant behind the door was lucky that the guy hap-
pened nearby, saw the fire a-borning, and took timely
measures to extinguish it?

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Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:33:07 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:33 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:

> Someone's door was in fire but it was seen early by a
> guy and the fire was put out. That same guy left an
> notice alerting the owner of the house...

He could have written: "tease not the devil" or "tempt
not thy luck".

--
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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:09:10 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:09 UTC

On 21/4/2022 8:27 pm, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>
> And what message is the note supposed to convey? That
> the tenant behind the door was lucky that the guy hap-
> pened nearby, saw the fire a-borning, and took timely
> measures to extinguish it?

That's it.

Someone took a picture of the notice and posted it to a web-forum,
questioning the grammar of that line. I should have posted the Chinese
version of that line. My humble apology...

Google Translate
<https://translate.google.com/?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&text=%E5%B9%B8%E9%81%8B%0A%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%0A%E5%BF%85%E7%84%B6&op=translate>

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From: toylet.t...@gmail.com (Mr. Man-wai Chang)
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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:10:08 +0800
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:10 UTC

On 21/4/2022 8:33 pm, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>
> He could have written: "tease not the devil" or "tempt
> not thy luck".

I would suggest "You Were Lucky", not exactly a translation of that
Chinese sentence. :)

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 17:53:49 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:53 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:

> Someone took a picture of the notice and posted it to
> a web-forum, questioning the grammar of that line. I
> should have posted the Chinese version of that line.
> My humble apology...
>
> Google Translate
> <https://translate.google.com/?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&text=%E5%B9%B8%E9%81%8B%0A%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%0A%E5%BF%85%E7%84%B6&op=translate>

That helps somewhat, but since I have no Chinese, it
would be great if you described the intended meaning of
the note in your own words. I think a relatively close
rendition in English whould be one of:

You can't be lucky all the time. (c) Roosevelt Sykes
You may not be so lucky next time.
One day luck may fail you.

> I would suggest "You Were Lucky", not exactly a trans-
> lation of that Chinese sentence. :)

Not bad. Or: You were lucky this time.

As always, I beg to bear in mind that English is not my
first language, nor do I live in an English-speaking
country. My exposure to the language is low and my
(verbal) intercourse with English speakers intermittent.

--
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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45 UTC

On 21/4/2022 10:53 pm, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> As always, I beg to bear in mind that English is not my
> first language, nor do I live in an English-speaking
> country. My exposure to the language is low and my
> (verbal) intercourse with English speakers intermittent.

Me, too! That's why I asked. :)

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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:50 UTC

On 21/4/2022 8:33 pm, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>
> He could have written: "tease not the devil" or "tempt
> not thy luck".
> > ...
>
> You can't be lucky all the time. (c) Roosevelt Sykes
> You may not be so lucky next time.
> One day luck may fail you.

Thank you. Back to translation, was Google Translate correct when saying
'Lucky is not inevitable'?

Interestingly, the last time I checked Google Translate, it said
"Lucky...", not "Luck..."! ;)

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:12:23 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 16:12 UTC

Mr. Man-wai Chang:

> Back to translation, was Google Translate correct when
> saying
>
> Interestingly, the last time I checked Google Trans-
> late, it said "Lucky...", not "Luck..."! ;)

Is still does so, and no, I think Google was not (and is
not) correct in using Lucky. Chinese hard to learn only
in the first twenty years.

--
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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 16:16 UTC

On 22/4/2022 12:12 am, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>
> Is still does so, and no, I think Google was not (and is
> not) correct in using Lucky. Chinese hard to learn only
> in the first twenty years.

Thank you for pointing out that "Lucky" could be a name.

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 by: CDB - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:11 UTC

On 4/21/2022 8:27 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Mr. Man-wai Chang to Anton Shepelev:

>> If Lucky was not a name but really talking about luck, is it still
>> correct in saying "Lucky is not in- evitable"?

> Then it is neither grammatical nor meaningful. An ad- jective must
> modify a noun -- explicit or implied,. e.g. a sense of the
> beautiful.

Some quotation marks would make it right: "[the word] 'lucky' is not
[the word] 'inevitable'".

> You describe the context:

>> Someone's door was in fire but it was seen early by a guy and the
>> fire was put out. That same guy left an notice alerting the
>> owner of the house...

> And what message is the note supposed to convey? That the tenant
> behind the door was lucky that the guy hap- pened nearby, saw
> the fire a-borning, and took timely measures to extinguish it?

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

<20220422180735.1cb994293b2044ccbcc22761@g{oogle}mail.com>

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 18:07:35 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:07 UTC

CDB:

> Some quotation marks would make it right: "[the word]
> 'lucky' is not [the word] 'inevitable'".

Indeed: `Lucky' is not `inevitable'.

Can we not go a bit futher and avoid the quotes:--

Possible is not probable
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Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:02:29 -0400
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 by: CDB - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 13:02 UTC

On 4/22/2022 11:07 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> CDB:

>> Some quotation marks would make it right: "[the word] 'lucky' is
>> not [the word] 'inevitable'".

> Indeed: `Lucky' is not `inevitable'.

> Can we not go a bit futher and avoid the quotes:--

> Possible is not probable

I think that is done, but I would use the quotation marks.

"Probable-Possible my black hen
Lays her eggs in the negative when,
Instead of in the positive now
Because she's unable to postulate how."

From _A Space-Child's Mother Goose_; possibly inaccurate, since I read
it a long time ago.

Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"

<20220423170754.00ac1faf8ca3cb66279a3404@gmail.com>

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From: anton....@gmail.com (Anton Shepelev)
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Subject: Re: "Lucky is not inevitable"
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 17:07:54 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:07 UTC

CDB:

> "Probable-Possible my black hen
> Lays her eggs in the negative when,
> Instead of in the positive now
> Because she's unable to postulate how."
>
> From _A Space-Child's Mother Goose_; possibly inaccurate,
> since I read it a long time ago.

You must have a phenomenal memory to remember that. All I
can recall on the subect is a line on the cover of Ruth
Brown album or anthology:

Black is Brown and Brown is Beautiful.

But then Ruth Brown is one of my favourite songstresses.

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