Nathaniel-1 Browne of Connecticut is named as a nephew, currently with Rev. Hooker in New England, in the 1636 will of Sir Nathaniel Rich.

The recent HOP sketch of Sir Nathaniel Rich provides information on his father: " Rich’s father [Richard], an illegitimate son of the chancellor [the 1st Baron Rich], resided at Leez Priory as steward of the family estate."

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/rich-nathaniel-1585-1636

An important clue is provided in the sketch's statement that Sir Nathaniel Rich "_suc.[eeded] fa.[ther] 1598," for which it cites "Essex RO, D/ABW 32/91."

Frederick Emmison's _Elizabethan Life: Wills of Essex Gentry and Yeomen_ [? 75:14], gives an abstract of "BW 32/91," which seems to be the same reference as above. I can only read snippets, but it seems to say:

RICHARD RICH of Leigh esquire, 8 August 1598. (Nuncupative.) [BW 32/91]

Being demanded what his mind was for the disposing of his goods, he gave to Mr Negus L3 and to the poor of Leigh 20s., and the rest of his goods to his wife. Witnesses: Mistress Rich his wife, Mr Pease a physician, Nathaniel Rich his son, Margaret Rich his daughter, and myself William Negus, minister [rector].
Proved 16 August 1598. Administration granted to Jane the widow.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Publications/tXNnAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22he+gave+to+Mr+Negus%22+rich&dq=%22he+gave+to+Mr+Negus%22+rich&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Elizabethan_Life/29wpD6L7c0MC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22demanded+what+his+mind+was%22+negus&dq=%22demanded+what+his+mind+was%22+negus&printsec=frontcover

The HOP sketch had identified the mother of Nathaniel as "Jane, da. of John Machell, Clothworker, of London," despite American genealogists calling her Anne Machell.

This marriage is found in the records of St. Mary Aldermarry, London:

[1574.] Dec. 13 Richarde Riches, esquier, & Mrs Jane Machel

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Parish_Registers_of_St_Mary_Aldermar/_BU_AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22jane+revell%22+machel+richarde&pg=PA5&printsec=frontcover

TAG, 22:29 mentions that a will of 1581 names Richard Rich's wife as "Ann." Most probably this was merely a mistake for Jane, but I suppose we should be on the lookout for a marriage to an Anne between 1574-81, and then a possible remarriage to a second Jane post 1581.

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 11:39:36 AM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Nathaniel-1 Browne of Connecticut is named as a nephew, currently with Rev. Hooker in New England, in the 1636 will of Sir Nathaniel Rich.
>
> The recent HOP sketch of Sir Nathaniel Rich provides information on his father: " Rich’s father [Richard], an illegitimate son of the chancellor [the 1st Baron Rich], resided at Leez Priory as steward of the family estate."
>
> https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/rich-nathaniel-1585-1636
>
> An important clue is provided in the sketch's statement that Sir Nathaniel Rich "_suc.[eeded] fa.[ther] 1598," for which it cites "Essex RO, D/ABW 32/91."
>
> Frederick Emmison's _Elizabethan Life: Wills of Essex Gentry and Yeomen_ [? 75:14], gives an abstract of "BW 32/91," which seems to be the same reference as above. I can only read snippets, but it seems to say:
>
> RICHARD RICH of Leigh esquire, 8 August 1598. (Nuncupative.) [BW 32/91]
>
> Being demanded what his mind was for the disposing of his goods, he gave to Mr Negus L3 and to the poor of Leigh 20s., and the rest of his goods to his wife. Witnesses: Mistress Rich his wife, Mr Pease a physician, Nathaniel Rich his son, Margaret Rich his daughter, and myself William Negus, minister [rector].
> Proved 16 August 1598. Administration granted to Jane the widow.
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Publications/tXNnAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22he+gave+to+Mr+Negus%22+rich&dq=%22he+gave+to+Mr+Negus%22+rich&printsec=frontcover
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Elizabethan_Life/29wpD6L7c0MC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22demanded+what+his+mind+was%22+negus&dq=%22demanded+what+his+mind+was%22+negus&printsec=frontcover
>
> The HOP sketch had identified the mother of Nathaniel as "Jane, da. of John Machell, Clothworker, of London," despite American genealogists calling her Anne Machell.
>
> This marriage is found in the records of St. Mary Aldermarry, London:
>
> [1574.] Dec. 13 Richarde Riches, esquier, & Mrs Jane Machel
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Parish_Registers_of_St_Mary_Aldermar/_BU_AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22jane+revell%22+machel+richarde&pg=PA5&printsec=frontcover
>
> TAG, 22:29 mentions that a will of 1581 names Richard Rich's wife as "Ann.." Most probably this was merely a mistake for Jane, but I suppose we should be on the lookout for a marriage to an Anne between 1574-81, and then a possible remarriage to a second Jane post 1581.

The identification of his wife as a daughter of John Machell of London goes back to the Vis Essex, Hawley where he called the Sheriff of London

https://books.google.com/books?id=hqwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA441&dq=Richard+Rich+Machell&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Rich%20Machell&f=false

I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.

Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536

This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle

William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619

One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
>
>
> Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
>
> https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
>
> This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
>
> William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
>
> One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.

No, the husband of Anne Rich was Percy Browne, son of Sir William Browne of the Low countries. (I suppose that is proven -- see the NEHGR).

Remember it's only two children who were witnesses to the oral will, not legatees, and I assume there were others, including an Anne.

More snippets from the estate of Richard Rich, esq.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Essex_Wills_the_Bishop_of_London_s_Commi/36MWAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22rich%20gentlewoman%22

Two items here-

1. When exactly was Richard Rich, the illegitimate son, born? I'm the descendant of Audrey Etheldreda Rich, his half sister. I have never heard of this connection, particularly to New England.

2. So there was a "Mr. Pease, a physician" in this record, which is also relevant to me because my ancestor, John Pease of Great Baddow, Essex, is probably related to this family somehow. I also noted that there was a Henry Pease of Woodham mentioned, which is of course near Great Baddow.

Darrell

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 3:19:09 PM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
> >
> >
> > Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
> >
> > https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
> >
> > This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
> >
> > William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
> >
> > One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.
> No, the husband of Anne Rich was Percy Browne, son of Sir William Browne of the Low countries. (I suppose that is proven -- see the NEHGR).
>
> Remember it's only two children who were witnesses to the oral will, not legatees, and I assume there were others, including an Anne.
>
> More snippets from the estate of Richard Rich, esq.
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/Essex_Wills_the_Bishop_of_London_s_Commi/36MWAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22rich%20gentlewoman%22

This says that her father was a Nicholas Rich, not this Richard Rich

https://books.google.com/books?id=XLqEWwa7fT8C&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA192&dq=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&f=false

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 8:46:05 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 3:19:09 PM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
> > >
> > > https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
> > >
> > > This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
> > >
> > > William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
> > >
> > > One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.
> > No, the husband of Anne Rich was Percy Browne, son of Sir William Browne of the Low countries. (I suppose that is proven -- see the NEHGR).
> >
> > Remember it's only two children who were witnesses to the oral will, not legatees, and I assume there were others, including an Anne.
> >
> > More snippets from the estate of Richard Rich, esq.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Essex_Wills_the_Bishop_of_London_s_Commi/36MWAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22rich%20gentlewoman%22
> This says that her father was a Nicholas Rich, not this Richard Rich
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=XLqEWwa7fT8C&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA192&dq=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&f=false

No, _Ancestral Roots_ is wrong there. An article on the Rich family in TAG sets out her descent from the 1st Lord Rich via this illegitimate son, Richard Rich. Although I concede that in the absence of a will of her father's that names her the situation is a little less than crystal clear. There is a pedigree chart (? from where) someplace in the NEGHR showing Sir William Browne with a son Percy married to ___ Rich, sister of Sir Nathaniel Rich.

See p. 119 of the below for Sir William Browne's statement that he has a child named Percy after the Earl of Northumberland:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044013563515&view=1up&seq=146&skin=2021

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 9:31:08 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 8:46:05 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 3:19:09 PM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
> > > >
> > > > https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
> > > >
> > > > This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
> > > >
> > > > William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
> > > >
> > > > One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.
> > > No, the husband of Anne Rich was Percy Browne, son of Sir William Browne of the Low countries. (I suppose that is proven -- see the NEHGR).
> > >
> > > Remember it's only two children who were witnesses to the oral will, not legatees, and I assume there were others, including an Anne.
> > >
> > > More snippets from the estate of Richard Rich, esq.
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Essex_Wills_the_Bishop_of_London_s_Commi/36MWAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22rich%20gentlewoman%22
> > This says that her father was a Nicholas Rich, not this Richard Rich
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=XLqEWwa7fT8C&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA192&dq=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&f=false
> No, _Ancestral Roots_ is wrong there. An article on the Rich family in TAG sets out her descent from the 1st Lord Rich via this illegitimate son, Richard Rich. Although I concede that in the absence of a will of her father's that names her the situation is a little less than crystal clear. There is a pedigree chart (? from where) someplace in the NEGHR showing Sir William Browne with a son Percy married to ___ Rich, sister of Sir Nathaniel Rich..
>
> See p. 119 of the below for Sir William Browne's statement that he has a child named Percy after the Earl of Northumberland:
>
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044013563515&view=1up&seq=146&skin=2021

Reeve's work on _Stondon Massey Essex_ is the source (? one of the sources) identifying "Percy Browne son of the governor of Flushing" as the husband of one Rich sister:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89096318225&view=1up&seq=244&skin=2021&q1=percy

The sister Margaret Rich, one of the witnesses to her father's will, married this guy:

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/wrothe-sir-thomas-1584-1672

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-8, JBrand wrote:
> On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 8:46:05 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 3:19:09 PM UTC-8, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
> > > >
> > > > https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
> > > >
> > > > This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
> > > >
> > > > William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
> > > >
> > > > One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.
> > > No, the husband of Anne Rich was Percy Browne, son of Sir William Browne of the Low countries. (I suppose that is proven -- see the NEHGR).
> > >
> > > Remember it's only two children who were witnesses to the oral will, not legatees, and I assume there were others, including an Anne.
> > >
> > > More snippets from the estate of Richard Rich, esq.
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/Essex_Wills_the_Bishop_of_London_s_Commi/36MWAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22rich%20gentlewoman%22
> > This says that her father was a Nicholas Rich, not this Richard Rich
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=XLqEWwa7fT8C&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA192&dq=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=percy%20browne%20anne%20rich&f=false
> No, _Ancestral Roots_ is wrong there. An article on the Rich family in TAG sets out her descent from the 1st Lord Rich via this illegitimate son, Richard Rich. Although I concede that in the absence of a will of her father's that names her the situation is a little less than crystal clear. There is a pedigree chart (? from where) someplace in the NEGHR showing Sir William Browne with a son Percy married to ___ Rich, sister of Sir Nathaniel Rich..
>
> See p. 119 of the below for Sir William Browne's statement that he has a child named Percy after the Earl of Northumberland:
>
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044013563515&view=1up&seq=146&skin=2021
Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...

ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote
<snip>
Frederick Emmison's _Elizabethan Life: Wills of Essex Gentry and Yeomen_ [? 75:14], gives an abstract of "BW 32/91," which seems to be the same reference as above. I can only read snippets, but it seems to say:

RICHARD RICH of Leigh esquire, 8 August 1598. (Nuncupative.) [BW 32/91]

Being demanded what his mind was for the disposing of his goods, he gave to Mr Negus L3 and to the poor of Leigh 20s., and the rest of his goods to his wife. Witnesses: Mistress Rich his wife, Mr Pease a physician, Nathaniel Rich his son, Margaret Rich his daughter, and myself William Negus, minister [rector].
Proved 16 August 1598. Administration granted to Jane the widow.
....

Yes, this is complete extract, which is in Vol 12 (printed in 2000, after Dr Emmison's death) and his reference in that vol is no. 779 (page 154). Dr Emmison does identifies the wife as, "Witnesses: Mistress [Jane] Rich his wife", which is proved by the next entry:

18 Aug. 1598 [780]
James THWAITES exhibited his proxy [given] by Jane RICH, gentlewoman, the widow of Richard RICH esquire; to exhibit the inventory [not extant], before Michaelmas next; James THWAITES of Dedham and Richard SCOTT of Barnston gentleman to be bound in £1,000 to indemnify the judge. Wit. James THWAITES, Richard SCOTTE, Francis BROWNE, William SIMSON.

Adrian

jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
to
Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...

I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)

Adrian

wjhons...@gmail.com wrote

This identifies these Brownes as that family of Betchworth Castle

I would be interested to know if you have the connection between these Brownes and the Betchworth Brownes.

The earliest I have of these Browne is:
JOHN BROWNE (-1 Jan 1497/8, will 3 Nov 1497, bur St Mary Magdalene, Milk Str, London); On 6 Jan 1485/6 or 1486/7 kntd; Mercer of London; In 1480/1 mayor; life tenant of Flambards & W Whetenham co Essex; Owned property in Milk Street & Wood Street London (life interest to his widow then to son Wm); Kin in Northumberland; Left a bequest to Lowik Church of that co; Trustee to Sir GEORGE (and/or his father THOMAS) BROWNE of Becthworth re Reynolds Place, Horton Kirby, Kent (may have been bought from REYNOLDS family); In his Will JOHN calls the following his cousins: WILLIAM BROWNE, mayor 1507; GEORGE WERKE (and sis); THOMAS a WERKE; RENFE a WERKE; JAMES a WERKE (and family), Margaret Haydock (wdw); Sir JOHN ffENKELL (and wife) and EDWARD ffENKELL; m Anne BELWOOD or BATWOOD (bap Belton, Lincs-Will 12 Jan 1503/4; bur St Mary Magdalene); of Lincoln's Inn; Anne's cousins include Dame Agnes Haydock nun; Jane Malet, nun; JOHN WEST (& wife) and others; Her sister Elizabeth m Nicholas father of Dr Rd HATTON [Some sources erroneously give JOHN as m1 Alice or Jane d of WILLIAM (or JOHN) SWINESHED/SWINSTED Knt and left s&h ROBERT who m Isabel Sharp but they are not mentioned in any of the family wills]

AND the earliest in the Betchworth Brownes:

THOMAS BROWNE (1414-20 Jul 1460 Hung drawn and quartered, or bhd, with five others, on the day of his conviction); Sir (knt 1452x1453); To 1483 royal ward; of Eygthorne, Kent; Betchworth Cstl, Surrey; London; and other properties in Kent inc Tonford alias Tunford; Lancastrian; Treasurer of royal household; In 1439-40 MP for Kent; In 1444 & 1460 sheriff of Kent; In 1458 comm. re Lubeck quarrel; ?Trustee for Rd Dk YORK (1411-30 Dec 1460); In 1459 attainted at Coventry; His Trustee for Horton and other properties in Kent was JOHN BROWNE Ld Mayor 1480 also in 1476.; m 1434 Eleanor d of Sir THOMAS FITZALAN of Betchworth Cstl & heir of her br William FITZALAN; She m2 (1461) THOMAS VAUGHAN (-1483 Ex) s of Robert Vaughan of Monmouth by Margaret and left Anne m John Wogan K.B. Melton manor was held by JOHN BROWNE Ld Mayor 1480 a property which in 1461/2 was granted to THOMAS VAUGHAN

Who was probably son of

ROBERT BROWNE; Sir of Betchworth In 1379-87 he may have been purveyor for the king's household in which case he would have been b<1360. Died before 1434 when his s was in wardship of king

Adrian

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 1:36:36 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
>
>
> Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
>
> https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
>
> This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
>
> William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
>
> One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.

I have to back up a step, because the date of this document is no later than 1625
So this could not be Humphrey Brown, son of Thomas Browne, and grandson of that William Browne "over 30 years old" in 1571

This line goes
John /Browne/ of Horton Kirby; Master of the Mint
Born by 1513, d 1570

his son

William /Browne/ "over 30 years" in 1571
married
Mary /Martin/

their son
Thomas /Browne/
eldest son
d 1619

married
Margaret /Rich/
daughter of Richard Rich

their eldest son
John /Browne/
"aged 7" 1619

That this family was seated at Horton Kirby and that one Humphrey Browne was disputing with Sir Thomas Wrothe about a mansion there probably implies that

Humphrey was a brother to Thomas Browne and disputing probably a mansion *in which* Margaret the widow was living, against her new husband Sir Thomas. That would make the most sense of this document.

Note that Thomas named one son Humphrey (too young to be this one), probably implying he was named for his uncle here.

This John Browne born by 1513 was the son of that Alice Keeble who next married
William Blount, 4th Lord /Mountjoy/ -1503-1524-
died 8 Nov 1534 Sutton-on-the-Hill

She is ancestral to Princess Diana

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> to
> Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
>
> Adrian

The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 12:33:51 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 1:36:36 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > I believe the identify of Nathaniel Browne can be resolved.
> >
> >
> > Sir Thomas Wroth and Humphrey Browne are haggling over a mansion called Reginolds in Horton Kirby
> >
> > https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5713536
> >
> > This identifies these Brownes as that fammily of Betchworth Castle
> >
> > William Browne, the eldest son of John the Master of the Mint, was himself seated at Horton Kirby and his son who succeeded him Thomas died in 1619. This Thomas wife is called Margaret daughter of Richard Rich and was his *first* wife so apparently dead by 1619
> >
> > One of the sons of this couple is this Humphrey Brown suing Sir Thomas Wroth who is *either* his step-father, or his uncle, depending on finding supporting evidence that Margaret married twice, or there were two sisters both called Margaret.
> I have to back up a step, because the date of this document is no later than 1625
> So this could not be Humphrey Brown, son of Thomas Browne, and grandson of that William Browne "over 30 years old" in 1571
>
> This line goes
> John /Browne/ of Horton Kirby; Master of the Mint
> Born by 1513, d 1570
>
> his son
>
> William /Browne/ "over 30 years" in 1571
> married
> Mary /Martin/
>
> their son
> Thomas /Browne/
> eldest son
> d 1619
>
> married
> Margaret /Rich/
> daughter of Richard Rich
>
> their eldest son
> John /Browne/
> "aged 7" 1619
>
> That this family was seated at Horton Kirby and that one Humphrey Browne was disputing with Sir Thomas Wrothe about a mansion there probably implies that
>
> Humphrey was a brother to Thomas Browne and disputing probably a mansion *in which* Margaret the widow was living, against her new husband Sir Thomas. That would make the most sense of this document.
>
> Note that Thomas named one son Humphrey (too young to be this one), probably implying he was named for his uncle here.

I guess you are aware these Brownes have to be different than the family of Nathaniel Browne of Connecticut under discussion here. The will of his uncle Sir Nathaniel Rich mentions his sister Lady Wroth, who must be the lady mentioned in the HOP account of Sir Thomas Wrothe, MP, i.e., his wife Margaret Rich, Margaret daughter of Richard Rich in the first post. Sir Nathaniel Rich mentioned also his deceased sister Browne (ie., the mother of Nathaniel Browne), and D.L. Greene showed her Christian name was Anne, that is Anne (Rich) Browne, another daughter of Richard Rich.

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, psbu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> > to
> > Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> > I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
> >
> > Adrian
> The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
> Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection

The will of Lady Margaret Wrothe, wife of Sir Thomas Wrothe, MP, and daughter of Richard and Jane (Machel) Rich, was witnessed by the Rev. Ralph Cudworth.

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:04:26 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, psbu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > > jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> > > to
> > > Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> > > I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
> > >
> > > Adrian
> > The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
> > Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection
> The will of Lady Margaret Wrothe, wife of Sir Thomas Wrothe, MP, and daughter of Richard and Jane (Machel) Rich, was witnessed by the Rev. Ralph Cudworth.

Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha

I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:49:29 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:04:26 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, psbu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > > > jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> > > > to
> > > > Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> > > > I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
> > > >
> > > > Adrian
> > > The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
> > > Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection
> > The will of Lady Margaret Wrothe, wife of Sir Thomas Wrothe, MP, and daughter of Richard and Jane (Machel) Rich, was witnessed by the Rev. Ralph Cudworth.
> Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha
>
> I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.

Although the existence of Martha Rich is totally ignored in this pedigree from a bit later:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_London/h6wKAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=browne+%22horton+kirkby%22+london&pg=PA112&printsec=frontcover

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 8:14:54 AM UTC-8, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> to
> Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
>
> Adrian
Thanks - I'll check into it.

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 10:19:09 AM UTC-8, psbu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> > to
> > Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> > I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
> >
> > Adrian
> The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
> Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection
Thanks for the citation - I'll check into it

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:55:50 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:49:29 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 2:04:26 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, psbu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > > > > jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > 5:52 AM (10 hours ago)
> > > > > to
> > > > > Can you give a citation for the article on the Rich family in TAG? Sounds interesting...
> > > > > I have recorded it as NEHGR Vol 48 p 267-70 (1894)
> > > > >
> > > > > Adrian
> > > > The article(s) in TAG are on The House of Rich TAG 21-22 (1944/5) by Donald Lines Jacobus
> > > > Drags me back to the John Machell & Jane Loddington family which is so problematic for my James Cudworth connection
> > > The will of Lady Margaret Wrothe, wife of Sir Thomas Wrothe, MP, and daughter of Richard and Jane (Machel) Rich, was witnessed by the Rev. Ralph Cudworth.
> > Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha
> >
> > I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.
> Although the existence of Martha Rich is totally ignored in this pedigree from a bit later:
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_London/h6wKAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=browne+%22horton+kirkby%22+london&pg=PA112&printsec=frontcover

In _TAG_ 60:91, D. L. Greene quoted from Peter W. Coldham, _Lord Mayor's Court of London: Depositions Relating to Americans, 1641-1736_, p. 9: "Attestation 17 June 1680. Certificate that the following deeds agree with the originals: (1) Grant of one share of land in the Bermudas ... to Robert Brown of London, gent., nephew of Sir Nathaniel Rich, deceased, late of London, 20 July 1641. (2) Grant of said share by Samuel Brown of London, stationer, and Nathaniel Brown of Hartford, Connecticut, gent., both sons of Ann Brown, deceased, who was the sister of Sir Nathaniel Rich, to Joseph Todd of London, citizen and skinner."

On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 7:49:29 PM UTC, JBrand wrote:
> Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha
>
> I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.

The following gives a slightly different account, don't know which is correct:

William Browne, the eldest son of John, the Master of the Mint, was seated at Horton Kirby, and by his wife, Mary, daughter of Edward Martin, of Franks, had a son, Thomas, who succeeded him, and died 1619. He was twice married, first to Margaret, daughter of Rich Riche, by whom he had five sons and six daughters-John (who was seven years old at his father's death), Thomas, William, Humphrey, and Bernard; Mary (ux Edward Bathurst), Margery, Ann, Susannah, Margaret, and Elizabeth. And by his second wife, Mary, daughter of Bernard Webster, of Woodford, he had two sons, Richard and Robert. [Adrian: so Thomas had 13 children and two wives in under 8 years?]

Probably descendants of this family are still extant, but trace of them is lost through the sanctifying influence of the Civil War. No doubt they fought, as became gentlemen, for their King; but unhappily the result was disastrous. John, the eldest son, sold his estates (ruined doubtless by the Civil War), whereby all trace of his family is lost, and they are now merged hopelessly in the noble army of Brownes with nothing, probably, to distinguish them from their namesakes.
(The Brownes of Bechworth Castle, by John Pym Yeatman 1903 Page 75)

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 3:00:06 PM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 7:49:29 PM UTC, JBrand wrote:
> > Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha
> >
> > I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.
> The following gives a slightly different account, don't know which is correct:
>
> William Browne, the eldest son of John, the Master of the Mint, was seated at Horton Kirby, and by his wife, Mary, daughter of Edward Martin, of Franks, had a son, Thomas, who succeeded him, and died 1619. He was twice married, first to Margaret, daughter of Rich Riche, by whom he had five sons and six daughters-John (who was seven years old at his father's death), Thomas, William, Humphrey, and Bernard; Mary (ux Edward Bathurst), Margery, Ann, Susannah, Margaret, and Elizabeth. And by his second wife, Mary, daughter of Bernard Webster, of Woodford, he had two sons, Richard and Robert. [Adrian: so Thomas had 13 children and two wives in under 8 years?]
>
> Probably descendants of this family are still extant, but trace of them is lost through the sanctifying influence of the Civil War. No doubt they fought, as became gentlemen, for their King; but unhappily the result was disastrous. John, the eldest son, sold his estates (ruined doubtless by the Civil War), whereby all trace of his family is lost, and they are now merged hopelessly in the noble army of Brownes with nothing, probably, to distinguish them from their namesakes.
> (The Brownes of Bechworth Castle, by John Pym Yeatman 1903 Page 75)

Possibly this was another illegitimate daughter of Richard Rich the 1st Lord. He had at least four known illegits., including Richard Rich the steward of Leez, and three daughters.

Although internal consistency is a massive problem with these Brownes of Horton Kirby. The account above gives Margaret Rich as the first wife, with an impossible age attached to the heir she produced, while the 1619 Kent Visitation says Margaret Rich was the second wife. The 1635 London Visitation does not mention her at all.

Kent Vis. and London Vis. differ from the above in calling the other wife Mary's father a Whetstone, not a Webster.

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 10:02:22 AM UTC-5, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 3:00:06 PM UTC-5, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 7:49:29 PM UTC, JBrand wrote:
> > > Kent Visitation shows MARTHA Rich of Lees was the second wife of Thomas Browne of Horton Kirkby, with children Richard Browne, Robert Browne, Mary Browne, Joanna Browne, and Elizabeth Browne.
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Visitation_of_Kent/o79MAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=browne%20martha
> > >
> > > I suppose that could be a sister of Margaret and Anne.
> > The following gives a slightly different account, don't know which is correct:
> >
> > William Browne, the eldest son of John, the Master of the Mint, was seated at Horton Kirby, and by his wife, Mary, daughter of Edward Martin, of Franks, had a son, Thomas, who succeeded him, and died 1619. He was twice married, first to Margaret, daughter of Rich Riche, by whom he had five sons and six daughters-John (who was seven years old at his father's death), Thomas, William, Humphrey, and Bernard; Mary (ux Edward Bathurst), Margery, Ann, Susannah, Margaret, and Elizabeth. And by his second wife, Mary, daughter of Bernard Webster, of Woodford, he had two sons, Richard and Robert. [Adrian: so Thomas had 13 children and two wives in under 8 years?]
> >
> > Probably descendants of this family are still extant, but trace of them is lost through the sanctifying influence of the Civil War. No doubt they fought, as became gentlemen, for their King; but unhappily the result was disastrous. John, the eldest son, sold his estates (ruined doubtless by the Civil War), whereby all trace of his family is lost, and they are now merged hopelessly in the noble army of Brownes with nothing, probably, to distinguish them from their namesakes.
> > (The Brownes of Bechworth Castle, by John Pym Yeatman 1903 Page 75)
> Possibly this was another illegitimate daughter of Richard Rich the 1st Lord. He had at least four known illegits., including Richard Rich the steward of Leez, and three daughters.
>
> Although internal consistency is a massive problem with these Brownes of Horton Kirby. The account above gives Margaret Rich as the first wife, with an impossible age attached to the heir she produced, while the 1619 Kent Visitation says Margaret Rich was the second wife. The 1635 London Visitation does not mention her at all.
>
> Kent Vis. and London Vis. differ from the above in calling the other wife Mary's father a Whetstone, not a Webster.

A link to G.D. Scull's Browne-Rich typescript held at the NEHGS:

http://circanceast.beaufortccc.edu/Brown/local%20personalities/sir%20william%20brown/Browne-Rich%20(BL143).pdf

A comment on the birthdate usually assigned Percy Browne (ca. 1604) is necessary:

In May 1621 we find the following in the House of Lords' journal:

"Brown's Naturalization.

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Naturalizing of Percie Browne and Marie Browne, the Children of Sir William Browne, Knight, Lieutenant Governor of His Majesty's Cautionary Town of Flushing; and, being put to the Question, it was Assented unto."

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol3/pp129-131

Sir William Browne had some other of his children (William, Anne, and Barbara) naturalized in June 1604:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951001352594p&view=1up&seq=162&skin=2021&q1=%22william%20anne%20and%20barbara%22

I think it was assumed Percy must have been born after this first set of sibling naturalizations, but now, seeing that Anne (Rich) Browne, Percy's wife had to be at least six years older (based on the death date of Richard Rich, her father), this should be re-thought. It might not necessarily follow that all the older siblings were naturalized in 1604.