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interests / soc.genealogy.medieval / Re: Grant of arms to John Cuerton, in 16th century, de Querton from Lancashire to Shropshire (including Mathem?)

Re: Grant of arms to John Cuerton, in 16th century, de Querton from Lancashire to Shropshire (including Mathem?)

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Subject: Re: Grant of arms to John Cuerton, in 16th century, de Querton from
Lancashire to Shropshire (including Mathem?)
From: jsardin9...@gmail.com (J. Sardina)
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by: J. Sardina - Wed, 9 Feb 2022 17:43 UTC

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:50:06 AM UTC-4, taf wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 11:05:51 AM UTC-7, J. Sardina wrote:
> > Following up on the research, the arms of double-headed eagle quartered with Sarracen
> > swords, these same arms are given as those of John Cuerden of Cuerden, who married
> > Elizabeth Farrington.
> >
> > This marriage and arms are shown by
> > GREGSON'S PORTFOLIO OF FRAGMENTS, Third Edition, with Additions and Improvements,
> > Containing a Copious General Ender, and a Special Index to the Coats of arms. EDITED BY
> > JOHN HARLAND,
> > on page 255, at the bottom. The source for these arms is unknown, but it may be a
> > manuscript mentioned in the entry for Farrington.
> >
> > Elizabeth is shown as one of the five co-heiresses of Peter Farington of Little Farington,
> > shown to have married Alice Hudleston.
> > The other sisters being Isabella, who married Richard Banister, of Banister Hall, Alice who
> > is shown married twice, the first time to a Skelton, Cecily, married Thomas Charnock, and
> > Ann married John Farrington.

> A good find, but with odd implications. These are clearly the same arms, here attributed to Cuerden of Cuerden, while in the pedigree we have been discussing they are portrayed as if they entered its Cuerden line via marriage in the first generation shown, via the wife of William Cuerden (who is given the Cuerden griffin arms). We have struggled reading the surname of William's wife, but Cuerden it was not.
>
> That the family would end up with two different 'Cuerden' arms might suggest something we have seen hints of elsewhere in this discussion, that not all Cuerdens represent the same family, but rather that there were multiple distinct local lineages that adopted the toponymic (as seen with Dr. Keurden). I also have to wonder if the first generation of the pedigree isn't in error in showing how the two Cuerden coats came to be united, that there was some sort of misunderstanding or obfuscation.
>
> taf

Hello,

Following up on the surname of the mystery knight whose arms seem to have been incorporated into the Cuerden and Cuerton arms, i am still not able to decipher it from a better quality picture, but from what I interpret, it is similar to Mat_em except that there seems to be a mark on the a, but faded; it seems like an inverted hat , and the letter after what I think is a t may have a tilde on top, though possibly curved, and looks to me like the German scharfes S. Johannis is abbreviated with a tilde.

As for the arms, it seems to be an eagle with two heads, but if i am not mistaken, I count four legs, not two, in some of the larger representations. Is that possible?

J. Sardina

Subject	Author
Re: Grant of arms to John Cuerton, in 16th century, de Querton from	J. Sardina