My comments are interspersed below. DR

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 1:07:06 AM UTC-7, William Acton wrote:
< I think the Visitations identify Mary and Christiana as 'Stapleton' because they were coheirs of their Stapleton grandfather. There is no
< contemporary evidence for the identity of Margaret Stapleton's husband.

As a general rule, visitations are fairly accurate .... although certainly it depends on the visitation in question, as accuracy can and does vary. In this case, you have two SEPARATE visitations which identify Stapleton as the birth surname of Margaret Stapleton's two daughters, Mary and Christian.. This is supported by the record which you found taken from Bodl. MS., Salop, 10 f. 248.

I personally see no problem accepting that Mary and Christian's father bore the same surname as their mother.

As for other news, this past week I located a Common Pleas lawsuit dated Easter term 1451, which proves that Margery, the 2nd wife and surviving widow of John Stapleton, Esq. (he died c. 1450), was previously the wife of Sir Edward Sprenghose [Sprengeaux] (died 1417). A modern biography of Sir Edward Sprenghose can be found in Roskell, Members of Parliament, at the following weblink:.

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/sprenghose-edward-1417

As indicated by Roskell, Edward Sprenghose was Sheriff of Shropshire in 1410-1411, which statement is supported by the published list of Shropshire medieval sheriffs:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hnkhj8&view=1up&seq=222&skin=2021&q1=Stepulton

<Robert Mountfort had married Mary by 1451, see CP 25/1/293/72, number 362:
<
< http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_293_72.shtml

Regarding the marriage date of Robert and Mary Montfort, you appear to have confused two different Robert Montfort's, one of Bescot (in Walsall), Staffordshire, the other of Church Bickenhall, Warwickshire. The two men were uncle and nephew, and both men had a wife named Mary. It was the Bescot man who was involved in the 1451 fine which you've cited in your post, not his nephew Robert, of Church Bickenhall, Warwickshire. Robert of Church Bickenhall is the one who married Mary Stapleton.

For further particulars of Robert Montfort of Bescot, see VCH Stafford 17 (1976): 169-175, at the following weblink:

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/staffs/vol17/pp169-175

Douglas Richardson, Author

Below is an abstract of the newly discovered 1451 Common Pleas lawsuit which I mentioned in my previous post:

In Easter term 1451 Margery, widow of John Stepulton, late the wife of Edward Sprengeaux, Knt., Thomas Hord, and Thomas Acton, executors of the will of John Stepulton, sued Joyce, widow of Walter Beauchamp, Knt., of Sezincote, Gloucestershire, widow, and John Tommys, clerk, of Campeden [Campden], Gloucestershire, executors of the will of Leonard Stepulton, Esq., in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £40.

Reference:
Court of Common Pleas, CP40/761, image 110f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no761/aCP40no761fronts/IMG_0110.htm).

DR

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 11:24:00 PM UTC, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> My comments are interspersed below. DR
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 1:07:06 AM UTC-7, William Acton wrote:
> < I think the Visitations identify Mary and Christiana as 'Stapleton' because they were coheirs of their Stapleton grandfather. There is no
> < contemporary evidence for the identity of Margaret Stapleton's husband.
> As a general rule, visitations are fairly accurate .... although certainly it depends on the visitation in question, as accuracy can and does vary. In this case, you have two SEPARATE visitations which identify Stapleton as the birth surname of Margaret Stapleton's two daughters, Mary and Christian. This is supported by the record which you found taken from Bodl. MS., Salop, 10 f. 248.
>
> I personally see no problem accepting that Mary and Christian's father bore the same surname as their mother.

Well you are being inconsistent with yourself. Here's a comment you made about the 1620 Visitation in another thread:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/OPxRqTBbwPw/m/U78U2E66AAAJ

"According to the 1620 Visitation of Shropshire (which is not the best visitation)...

The 1620 Visitation identifies no less than three daughters and co-heirs for this "Pierre Bruse" of Hochampe, namely Alice, wife of Ralph de Saint Owen, Maud, wife of John de Vaux, and Elizabeth, wife of William Molineux. As far as I know, there is no Peter de Bruse (or Brewes) in this time period who had such daughters."

So does this mean you suddenly accept everything the visitation says, even when there is no contemporary evidence? Better to hold off from any firm conclusions until you can find contemporary evidence that Margery's husband was called Stapleton.

> As for other news, this past week I located a Common Pleas lawsuit dated Easter term 1451, which proves that Margery, the 2nd wife and surviving widow of John Stapleton, Esq. (he died c. 1450), was previously the wife of Sir Edward Sprenghose [Sprengeaux] (died 1417). A modern biography of Sir Edward Sprenghose can be found in Roskell, Members of Parliament, at the following weblink:.
>
> https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/sprenghose-edward-1417
>
> As indicated by Roskell, Edward Sprenghose was Sheriff of Shropshire in 1410-1411, which statement is supported by the published list of Shropshire medieval sheriffs:

Thank you for this new evidence, very interesting.

> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hnkhj8&view=1up&seq=222&skin=2021&q1=Stepulton
> <Robert Mountfort had married Mary by 1451, see CP 25/1/293/72, number 362:
> <
> < http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_293_72.shtml
> Regarding the marriage date of Robert and Mary Montfort, you appear to have confused two different Robert Montfort's, one of Bescot (in Walsall), Staffordshire, the other of Church Bickenhall, Warwickshire. The two men were uncle and nephew, and both men had a wife named Mary. It was the Bescot man who was involved in the 1451 fine which you've cited in your post, not his nephew Robert, of Church Bickenhall, Warwickshire. Robert of Church Bickenhall is the one who married Mary Stapleton.

Mea culpa, thank you for correcting me.

> For further particulars of Robert Montfort of Bescot, see VCH Stafford 17 (1976): 169-175, at the following weblink:
>
> https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/staffs/vol17/pp169-175
>
> Douglas Richardson, Author

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:00:48 AM UTC, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Below is an abstract of the newly discovered 1451 Common Pleas lawsuit which I mentioned in my previous post:
>
> In Easter term 1451 Margery, widow of John Stepulton, late the wife of Edward Sprengeaux, Knt., Thomas Hord, and Thomas Acton, executors of the will of John Stepulton, sued Joyce, widow of Walter Beauchamp, Knt., of Sezincote, Gloucestershire, widow, and John Tommys, clerk, of Campeden [Campden], Gloucestershire, executors of the will of Leonard Stepulton, Esq., in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £40.
>
> Reference:
> Court of Common Pleas, CP40/761, image 110f (available at http://aalt.law..uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no761/aCP40no761fronts/IMG_0110.htm).
>
> DR

Many thanks for this. There is another reference to Margery here:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no629/CP40no629Cty.htm

d 880 Bucks dower Carvell, William; Elizabeth, his wife Sprenchose, Margery, formerly wife of Edward Sprenchose, knight

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 3:08:16 AM UTC-5, William Acton wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:00:48 AM UTC, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> > Below is an abstract of the newly discovered 1451 Common Pleas lawsuit which I mentioned in my previous post:
> >
> > In Easter term 1451 Margery, widow of John Stepulton, late the wife of Edward Sprengeaux, Knt., Thomas Hord, and Thomas Acton, executors of the will of John Stepulton, sued Joyce, widow of Walter Beauchamp, Knt., of Sezincote, Gloucestershire, widow, and John Tommys, clerk, of Campeden [Campden], Gloucestershire, executors of the will of Leonard Stepulton, Esq., in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £40.
> >
> > Reference:
> > Court of Common Pleas, CP40/761, image 110f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no761/aCP40no761fronts/IMG_0110.htm).
> >
> > DR
> Many thanks for this. There is another reference to Margery here:
>
> http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no629/CP40no629Cty.htm
>
> d 880 Bucks dower Carvell, William; Elizabeth, his wife Sprenchose, Margery, formerly wife of Edward Sprenchose, knight

"Sprencheaux" is another common spelling of the surname ...

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Transactions/RIouAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=sprencheaux&dq=sprencheaux&printsec=frontcover