On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:00:30 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-07-13 23:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 14/07/22 14:49, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> Someone on another forum has offered a different explanation -- that
>>> there are two different styles of communication, one with
>>> implications and the other without.
>>>
>>> The example she gave was that her husband was carrying something and
>>> said "This load is heavy" and she responded, "Yes, it is."
>>>
>>> Later he said he had asked her to help him carry it, and she said he
>>> hadn't.
>>>
>>> His mode of communication meant that giving information implied that
>>> he wanted someone else to do something about it, but hers was that
>>> information was just information, and a request for help should be
>>> explicit.
>>
>> Good point.
>>
>> I've been caught in that trap many times in the past. Apparently I'm not
>> very good at hearing what was not said.
>
>My feeling about hints.
>
>I don't respond to subtle hints.
>I don't respond to strong hints.
>If you want me to do something, just tell me.

Me too, and I don't give hints. If I waant someone to do something,
I'll ask them to do it.

If I say I'm "just saying" something, then I MEAN I'm just saying it,
I'm not hinting, not at all.

So what can you say to someone whose communication style is hinting to
convince them that you are just saying sommething and not implying or
hinting at anything betond the saying?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On 18/07/22 15:37, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:00:30 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-07-13 23:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 14/07/22 14:49, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>
>>>> Someone on another forum has offered a different explanation --
>>>> that there are two different styles of communication, one with
>>>> implications and the other without.
>>>>
>>>> The example she gave was that her husband was carrying
>>>> something and said "This load is heavy" and she responded,
>>>> "Yes, it is."
>>>>
>>>> Later he said he had asked her to help him carry it, and she
>>>> said he hadn't.
>>>>
>>>> His mode of communication meant that giving information implied
>>>> that he wanted someone else to do something about it, but hers
>>>> was that information was just information, and a request for
>>>> help should be explicit.
>>>
>>> Good point.
>>>
>>> I've been caught in that trap many times in the past. Apparently
>>> I'm not very good at hearing what was not said.
>>
>> My feeling about hints.
>>
>> I don't respond to subtle hints. I don't respond to strong hints.
>> If you want me to do something, just tell me.
>
> Me too, and I don't give hints. If I waant someone to do something,
> I'll ask them to do it.
>
> If I say I'm "just saying" something, then I MEAN I'm just saying
> it, I'm not hinting, not at all.
>
> So what can you say to someone whose communication style is hinting
> to convince them that you are just saying sommething and not implying
> or hinting at anything betond the saying?

Now that you mention it ... it can be very hard to get that across. No
matter how much you say "That wasn't a hint", it will be taken as a hint
anyway.

We all believe that our own style is the right way to interact, and that
everyone else should do the same. If you're dealing with a hinter, they
will assume that you too are hinting. And vice versa.

We know intellectually that people are different from one another, but
it's hard to accept that deep down.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 18/07/2022 7:32 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/07/22 15:37, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:00:30 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-07-13 23:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 14/07/22 14:49, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Someone on another forum has offered a different explanation --
>>>>> that there are two different styles of communication, one with
>>>>> implications and the other without.
>>>>>
>>>>> The example she gave was that her husband was carrying
>>>>> something and said "This load is heavy" and she responded,
>>>>> "Yes, it is."
>>>>>
>>>>> Later he said he had asked her to help him carry it, and she
>>>>> said he hadn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> His mode of communication meant that giving information implied
>>>>> that he wanted someone else to do something about it, but hers
>>>>> was that information was just information, and a request for
>>>>> help should be explicit.
>>>>
>>>> Good point.
>>>>
>>>> I've been caught in that trap many times in the past. Apparently
>>>> I'm not very good at hearing what was not said.
>>>
>>> My feeling about hints.
>>>
>>> I don't respond to subtle hints. I don't respond to strong hints.
>>> If you want me to do something, just tell me.
>>
>> Me too, and I don't give hints. If I waant someone to do
>> something,
>> I'll ask them to do it.
>>
>> If I say I'm "just saying" something, then I MEAN I'm just saying
>> it, I'm not hinting, not at all.
>>
>> So what can you say to someone whose communication style is
>> hinting
>> to convince them that you are just saying sommething and not
>> implying
>> or hinting at anything betond the saying?
>
> Now that you mention it ... it can be very hard to get that
> across. No
> matter how much you say "That wasn't a hint", it will be taken as
> a hint
> anyway.

Yes. Everything goes into dehint(), even if you're just sharing
the weather report.

>
> We all believe that our own style is the right way to interact,
> and that
> everyone else should do the same. If you're dealing with a
> hinter, they
> will assume that you too are hinting. And vice versa.
>
> We know intellectually that people are different from one
> another, but
> it's hard to accept that deep down.

An interesting but incredibly difficult game is to attempt to
construct the inverse function, enhint(), such that
dehint(enhint(X)) comes out as X.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:32:39 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 18/07/22 15:37, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> So what can you say to someone whose communication style is hinting
>> to convince them that you are just saying sommething and not implying
>> or hinting at anything betond the saying?
>
>Now that you mention it ... it can be very hard to get that across. No
>matter how much you say "That wasn't a hint", it will be taken as a hint
>anyway.
>
>We all believe that our own style is the right way to interact, and that
>everyone else should do the same. If you're dealing with a hinter, they
>will assume that you too are hinting. And vice versa.
>
>We know intellectually that people are different from one another, but
>it's hard to accept that deep down.

And there's the difficulty.

If I want to let someone know that I'm not hinting, but just saying,
then "I'm just saying" comes out automatically, but a hinter is likely
to believe that "I'm just saying" is itself a hint, so what can I
train myself to say to let the person know that I'm just saying, not
hinting, without saying "I'm just sayinbg"? And without sounding sarky
(AmE=snarky)?

I suppose I could say "I wasn't excpecting you to" in response to
whatever the person thought I was hinting at, but that sounds a lot
more sarky than "I'm just saying."

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On 20/07/22 15:45, Steve Hayes wrote:

> If I want to let someone know that I'm not hinting, but just saying,
> then "I'm just saying" comes out automatically, but a hinter is likely
> to believe that "I'm just saying" is itself a hint, so what can I
> train myself to say to let the person know that I'm just saying, not
> hinting, without saying "I'm just sayinbg"? And without sounding sarky
> (AmE=snarky)?

Snarcastic?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Steve Hayes:

> If I want to let someone know that I'm not hint-
> ing, but just saying, then "I'm just saying"
> comes out automatically, but a hinter is likely
> to believe that "I'm just saying" is itself a
> hint

The phrase betrays one's fear of a misunderstand-
ing, and through that one's opinion of the person
addressed: that he is so insecure as to suspect a
hidden manipulation in one's words. By that it
also shows how insecure one is to suspect such
suspicions in others and to feel obliged to append
a disclaimer, as if by way of cowardly disguised
apology for some half-imagined semi-insult. I am
just saying that I am just saying. You know I know
you know (as in the Five Royals song).

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:40:44 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 20/07/22 15:45, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> If I want to let someone know that I'm not hinting, but just saying,
>> then "I'm just saying" comes out automatically, but a hinter is likely
>> to believe that "I'm just saying" is itself a hint, so what can I
>> train myself to say to let the person know that I'm just saying, not
>> hinting, without saying "I'm just sayinbg"? And without sounding sarky
>> (AmE=snarky)?
>
>Snarcastic?

Possibly.

AmE seems to have a thing about adding letters to words, not just

sarky --> snarky

but also

pernickety --> persnickety

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk