Hello all,

I am trying to learn more about the life of Katherine de Roet, but I couldn't find a good pedigree of her first husband Hugh Swynford, so I decided to do some research of my own. I've discovered there were three branches of the same family active throughout the 14th century: the main branch at Kettlethorpe that descended from Thomas Swynford (d. 1412) [1], Hugh's grandfather, a junior branch from Great Stukeley that descended from his brother John [2] and whose eventual heir was William Burgate [3] and another branch seated at Harlaxton (where they owned the manors of Swynford and Brewes) [4], whose estates eventually passed to the descendants of Hugh's uncle William..

Their mutual ancestor was William de Swyneford of Great Stukeley, whose widow subsequently married Sir Norman Darcy [5] and then arranged a marriage between her eldest son Thomas and his daughter Margaret Darcy [6]. Hugh's father was the third son, but eventual male heir of the Kettlethorpe branch because his elder brothers John (d. 1343) [7] and William (d. 1349) [8] only left daughters. Kettlethorpe then passed to John's (d. 1343) grandson John de la Croys [9], who sold Kettlethorpe back to Hugh's father in 1355 [10]. He then married Hugh's sister Margaret and in 1374 after the death of Hugh, John and Margaret even claimed to be the next heir [11]:

“John de la Croice and Margaret, his wife, sued Henry Austyn for twenty acres of land in Ednynghale, which they claimed as the right of Margaret, and in which Henry had no entry except by Richard Austyn, who had unjustly disseised Thomas de Swynford, Chivaler, the father of Margaret,
and whose heir she was."

The family had no relationship with the Swynford of Northamptonshire settled at Newbold, Spratton and Sutton, whose arms were a variant of 'one boar passant' [12], whereas the branches of 'our' Swynford family carried arms ‘Argent, on a chevron Sable three boars' heads Or’ as can be seen for example on the tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey [13].

Regarding Hugh I found out that Nichole Druel was previously married to Richard de la Bere [14] and she might not have been Hugh's mother at all, because the manor she held at Newton Blossomville was sold off in 1357 [15] and Kettlethorpe was settled specifically on the heirs of Thomas alone.

The one thing that still mystifies me is the date of birth of Katherine's son Thomas Swynford, which according to his proof of age was 24 February 1373 [16], which I reckon is the source of later allegations that he was illegitimate. I've seen IPMs more often than not being incorrect on ages, but I see no reason why a proof of age would give someone a later date of birth than they had, yet that is was must have happened here. I do believe it is more likely he was born 1371-72 rather than in the 1360s as that would be too far off his proof of age, but I would like to hear if someone else has something to offer on the subject.

I also wonder if it is useful or possible to try and change the pedigrees given online on websites such as WikiTree for Hugh with the information I found.

Best of wishes,
Leonie

Sources:
[1] IPM of Thomas de Swyneford 1312
[2] Close Rolls 1381-85, inquiry on the claim of Elizabeth, daughter and heir of William de Swynford regarding estates belonging to the Argentine family
[3] Manor rolls of the manor of Burgate, Suffolk and Close Rolls 1377-1381 regarding the claim of William Burgate to property formerly belonging to Margaret de Swynford of Great Stukeley (d. 1349)
[4] Feet of Fines 1341, entail of the Swynford manor of Harlaxton
[5] Close Rolls 1272-1279 and 1301-1307
[6] Close Rolls 1296-1302
[7] IPM of John de Swynford 1343
[8] IPM of Margaret de Swynford 1349
[9] Transaction between John de la Croys and Philip Lymbury regarding estates he held by enfeoffment of his mother, Margaret Swynford, daughter and heir of John Swynford (d. 1343).
[10] Feet of Fines 1355, sale of Kettlethorpe from John de la Croys to Thomas de Swynford.
[11] Collections for a history of Staffordshire, 1374 inquisition regarding land in Edinghale.
[12] Seal of Swynford of Newbold on a Deed of 1366
[13] Tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey
[14] Feet of Fines 1329, entail of estates in Bedfordshire by Richard de la Bere and Nichole his wife and Feet of Fines 1343, settlement of the same estates by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife.
[15] Feet of Fines 1357, sale of Newton Blossomville by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife in return for life annuity of 28 marks to Nichole.
[16] Proof of Age of Thomas de Swynford 1394.

There is a FB group devoted to Katherine Swynford and there is a Katherine Swynford Society. I would post there because many of the people researching the family belong to one or both of the groups and will probably know how to fix the pedigrees.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:02:05 PM UTC-5, Zorro PD wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am trying to learn more about the life of Katherine de Roet, but I couldn't find a good pedigree of her first husband Hugh Swynford, so I decided to do some research of my own. I've discovered there were three branches of the same family active throughout the 14th century: the main branch at Kettlethorpe that descended from Thomas Swynford (d. 1412) [1], Hugh's grandfather, a junior branch from Great Stukeley that descended from his brother John [2] and whose eventual heir was William Burgate [3] and another branch seated at Harlaxton (where they owned the manors of Swynford and Brewes) [4], whose estates eventually passed to the descendants of Hugh's uncle William.
>
> Their mutual ancestor was William de Swyneford of Great Stukeley, whose widow subsequently married Sir Norman Darcy [5] and then arranged a marriage between her eldest son Thomas and his daughter Margaret Darcy [6]. Hugh's father was the third son, but eventual male heir of the Kettlethorpe branch because his elder brothers John (d. 1343) [7] and William (d. 1349) [8] only left daughters. Kettlethorpe then passed to John's (d. 1343) grandson John de la Croys [9], who sold Kettlethorpe back to Hugh's father in 1355 [10]. He then married Hugh's sister Margaret and in 1374 after the death of Hugh, John and Margaret even claimed to be the next heir [11]:
>
> “John de la Croice and Margaret, his wife, sued Henry Austyn for twenty acres of land in Ednynghale, which they claimed as the right of Margaret, and in which Henry had no entry except by Richard Austyn, who had unjustly disseised Thomas de Swynford, Chivaler, the father of Margaret,
> and whose heir she was."
>
> The family had no relationship with the Swynford of Northamptonshire settled at Newbold, Spratton and Sutton, whose arms were a variant of 'one boar passant' [12], whereas the branches of 'our' Swynford family carried arms ‘Argent, on a chevron Sable three boars' heads Or’ as can be seen for example on the tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey [13].
>
> Regarding Hugh I found out that Nichole Druel was previously married to Richard de la Bere [14] and she might not have been Hugh's mother at all, because the manor she held at Newton Blossomville was sold off in 1357 [15] and Kettlethorpe was settled specifically on the heirs of Thomas alone.
>
> The one thing that still mystifies me is the date of birth of Katherine's son Thomas Swynford, which according to his proof of age was 24 February 1373 [16], which I reckon is the source of later allegations that he was illegitimate. I've seen IPMs more often than not being incorrect on ages, but I see no reason why a proof of age would give someone a later date of birth than they had, yet that is was must have happened here. I do believe it is more likely he was born 1371-72 rather than in the 1360s as that would be too far off his proof of age, but I would like to hear if someone else has something to offer on the subject.
>
> I also wonder if it is useful or possible to try and change the pedigrees given online on websites such as WikiTree for Hugh with the information I found.
>
> Best of wishes,
> Leonie
>
> Sources:
> [1] IPM of Thomas de Swyneford 1312
> [2] Close Rolls 1381-85, inquiry on the claim of Elizabeth, daughter and heir of William de Swynford regarding estates belonging to the Argentine family
> [3] Manor rolls of the manor of Burgate, Suffolk and Close Rolls 1377-1381 regarding the claim of William Burgate to property formerly belonging to Margaret de Swynford of Great Stukeley (d. 1349)
> [4] Feet of Fines 1341, entail of the Swynford manor of Harlaxton
> [5] Close Rolls 1272-1279 and 1301-1307
> [6] Close Rolls 1296-1302
> [7] IPM of John de Swynford 1343
> [8] IPM of Margaret de Swynford 1349
> [9] Transaction between John de la Croys and Philip Lymbury regarding estates he held by enfeoffment of his mother, Margaret Swynford, daughter and heir of John Swynford (d. 1343).
> [10] Feet of Fines 1355, sale of Kettlethorpe from John de la Croys to Thomas de Swynford.
> [11] Collections for a history of Staffordshire, 1374 inquisition regarding land in Edinghale.
> [12] Seal of Swynford of Newbold on a Deed of 1366
> [13] Tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey
> [14] Feet of Fines 1329, entail of estates in Bedfordshire by Richard de la Bere and Nichole his wife and Feet of Fines 1343, settlement of the same estates by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife.
> [15] Feet of Fines 1357, sale of Newton Blossomville by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife in return for life annuity of 28 marks to Nichole.
> [16] Proof of Age of Thomas de Swynford 1394.

On Monday, 28 February 2022 at 09:04:16 UTC-5, jmsksu wrote:
> There is a FB group devoted to Katherine Swynford and there is a Katherine Swynford Society. I would post there because many of the people researching the family belong to one or both of the groups and will probably know how to fix the pedigrees.
> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 2:02:05 PM UTC-5, Zorro PD wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am trying to learn more about the life of Katherine de Roet, but I couldn't find a good pedigree of her first husband Hugh Swynford, so I decided to do some research of my own. I've discovered there were three branches of the same family active throughout the 14th century: the main branch at Kettlethorpe that descended from Thomas Swynford (d. 1412) [1], Hugh's grandfather, a junior branch from Great Stukeley that descended from his brother John [2] and whose eventual heir was William Burgate [3] and another branch seated at Harlaxton (where they owned the manors of Swynford and Brewes) [4], whose estates eventually passed to the descendants of Hugh's uncle William.
> >
> > Their mutual ancestor was William de Swyneford of Great Stukeley, whose widow subsequently married Sir Norman Darcy [5] and then arranged a marriage between her eldest son Thomas and his daughter Margaret Darcy [6]. Hugh's father was the third son, but eventual male heir of the Kettlethorpe branch because his elder brothers John (d. 1343) [7] and William (d. 1349) [8] only left daughters. Kettlethorpe then passed to John's (d. 1343) grandson John de la Croys [9], who sold Kettlethorpe back to Hugh's father in 1355 [10]. He then married Hugh's sister Margaret and in 1374 after the death of Hugh, John and Margaret even claimed to be the next heir [11]:
> >
> > “John de la Croice and Margaret, his wife, sued Henry Austyn for twenty acres of land in Ednynghale, which they claimed as the right of Margaret, and in which Henry had no entry except by Richard Austyn, who had unjustly disseised Thomas de Swynford, Chivaler, the father of Margaret,
> > and whose heir she was."
> >
> > The family had no relationship with the Swynford of Northamptonshire settled at Newbold, Spratton and Sutton, whose arms were a variant of 'one boar passant' [12], whereas the branches of 'our' Swynford family carried arms ‘Argent, on a chevron Sable three boars' heads Or’ as can be seen for example on the tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey [13].
> >
> > Regarding Hugh I found out that Nichole Druel was previously married to Richard de la Bere [14] and she might not have been Hugh's mother at all, because the manor she held at Newton Blossomville was sold off in 1357 [15] and Kettlethorpe was settled specifically on the heirs of Thomas alone.
> >
> > The one thing that still mystifies me is the date of birth of Katherine's son Thomas Swynford, which according to his proof of age was 24 February 1373 [16], which I reckon is the source of later allegations that he was illegitimate. I've seen IPMs more often than not being incorrect on ages, but I see no reason why a proof of age would give someone a later date of birth than they had, yet that is was must have happened here. I do believe it is more likely he was born 1371-72 rather than in the 1360s as that would be too far off his proof of age, but I would like to hear if someone else has something to offer on the subject.
> >
> > I also wonder if it is useful or possible to try and change the pedigrees given online on websites such as WikiTree for Hugh with the information I found.
> >
> > Best of wishes,
> > Leonie
> >
> > Sources:
> > [1] IPM of Thomas de Swyneford 1312
> > [2] Close Rolls 1381-85, inquiry on the claim of Elizabeth, daughter and heir of William de Swynford regarding estates belonging to the Argentine family
> > [3] Manor rolls of the manor of Burgate, Suffolk and Close Rolls 1377-1381 regarding the claim of William Burgate to property formerly belonging to Margaret de Swynford of Great Stukeley (d. 1349)
> > [4] Feet of Fines 1341, entail of the Swynford manor of Harlaxton
> > [5] Close Rolls 1272-1279 and 1301-1307
> > [6] Close Rolls 1296-1302
> > [7] IPM of John de Swynford 1343
> > [8] IPM of Margaret de Swynford 1349
> > [9] Transaction between John de la Croys and Philip Lymbury regarding estates he held by enfeoffment of his mother, Margaret Swynford, daughter and heir of John Swynford (d. 1343).
> > [10] Feet of Fines 1355, sale of Kettlethorpe from John de la Croys to Thomas de Swynford.
> > [11] Collections for a history of Staffordshire, 1374 inquisition regarding land in Edinghale.
> > [12] Seal of Swynford of Newbold on a Deed of 1366
> > [13] Tomb of Lewis Robessart KG in Westminster Abbey
> > [14] Feet of Fines 1329, entail of estates in Bedfordshire by Richard de la Bere and Nichole his wife and Feet of Fines 1343, settlement of the same estates by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife.
> > [15] Feet of Fines 1357, sale of Newton Blossomville by Thomas de Swynford and Nichole his wife in return for life annuity of 28 marks to Nichole.
> > [16] Proof of Age of Thomas de Swynford 1394.
Have you read Katherine by Anya Seton? Doesn't delve into the Swynford pedigree but the author has done research on Katherine and her life....