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interests / rec.games.chess.misc / Re: Opening traps are killers

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
 `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    | `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
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    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |       `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |        `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |         `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |          `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
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    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
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    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef

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Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 20:38 UTC

Bs"d

Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg

https://tinyurl.com/fish-pole-trap

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 21:08 UTC

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg

Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 11 Dec 2021 17:13 UTC

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.

Bs"d

I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.

So terrible players it is for me.

Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.

http://tinyurl.com/50-proc-math

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Mon, 13 Dec 2021 18:19 UTC

Bs"d

I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.

So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.

Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.

Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ

Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.

Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.

I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)

https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:32 UTC

On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
> Bs"d
>
> I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.

Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
>
> So terrible players it is for me.
>
> Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.

Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).

You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.

I spent two years in a town where I was by far the strongest active player. When I returned home I was weak, weak, weak. It took me eight months to get my speed rating back where it had been, to shake all those lazy habits I had acquired beating weaker players.

Fortunately in my next small town there were some pretty strong players to keep me from decaying further.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Mon, 13 Dec 2021 21:28 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > Bs"d
> > > >
> > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
> Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.

Bs"d

That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.

> > So terrible players it is for me.
> >
> > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
> Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).

That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players. I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.

> You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.

Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit

But you can have so much fun with trappy gambits!

> I spent two years in a town where I was by far the strongest active player. When I returned home I was weak, weak, weak. It took me eight months to get my speed rating back where it had been, to shake all those lazy habits I had acquired beating weaker players.
>
> Fortunately in my next small town there were some pretty strong players to keep me from decaying further.

When you always play opponents equal to you or better, than chess becomes a very stressful undertaking. Play weaker ones, and you are just having fun.

I guess it's just a different approach.

https://tinyurl.com/lost-gambit

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:45 UTC

On 12/13/2021 2:28 PM, Eli Kesef wrote:

> When you always play opponents equal to you or better, than chess becomes a very stressful undertaking. Play weaker ones, and you are just having fun.

That's just great, if you enjoy winning more than improving your game.
Not me. Back when I was an active player (the late 1950s), I always
wanted to play players stronger than me, so I could learn from them and
become a better player.

If I easily beat a weak player, it was meaningless to me. If I lost to a
stronger player, I almost always learned something and it was valuable.

There were three players in my high school chess club who were stronger
than me, and they were the ones I always wanted to play. After high
school when I played at the Manhattan and Marshall clubs, except when I
cared about my score in a tournament, I always wanted to play Bill
Lombardy, Edmar Mednis, Jimmy Sherwin, Arthur Bisguier, and other strong
players so I could learn from them.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Fri, 17 Dec 2021 05:39 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > > Bs"d
> > > > >
> > > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> > > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
> > Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
> Bs"d
>
> That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.
> > > So terrible players it is for me.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
> > Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).
> That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players.

Let us say that they are terrible compared to the ratings that they hold. We are all, of course, terrible compared to the people at the top, but some are terrible even compared to other terrible players.

> I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.
> > You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.
> Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit

Mostly they are, no doubt about it. But not so bad as to be unplayable, even in serious chess, where the opponent has a long time to work out a response. As someone once said "No gambit works in theory, but all work in practice". With some exaggeration.

And in the real world, where we are all under 2600 FIDE, they definitely work better than they do in theory, especially if the opponent underestimates them.

"Do you really want that move going up on the demo board?", said a participant in a large event, who had little respect for the move in question. By move 23 the demo board showed him about to be mated. Now that actually wasn't a gambit, but the principle applies.

>
> But you can have so much fun with trappy gambits!
> > I spent two years in a town where I was by far the strongest active player. When I returned home I was weak, weak, weak. It took me eight months to get my speed rating back where it had been, to shake all those lazy habits I had acquired beating weaker players.
> >
> > Fortunately in my next small town there were some pretty strong players to keep me from decaying further.
> When you always play opponents equal to you or better, than chess becomes a very stressful undertaking. Play weaker ones, and you are just having fun.

That's the difference, I don't feel the stress. If I lose, I lose, there's another game around the corner. I even like some of my losses.

The only loss that really bothered me was from an easily won position against a master in tournament play. He'd have been the first master I beat. But the unpleasantness was greatly reduced when I beat another master two rounds later.

Now an acquaintance was really affected badly by a lost game. He was tied for first in a round-robin event, and was about to win brilliantly against his opponent (another master), when he hung his queen.
But that blunder would have lost against anyone. And it had his good side: he lost interest in chess, paid attention to his career, did well, and then returned to chess stronger than ever.


> I guess it's just a different approach.

Exactly. I'd get bored beating the people you are playing, you'd be bored playing my (former) opponents. We don't play to be bored.

But you do have to be careful that repeated playing with weak opponents doesn't make your play routine, as it did mine.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Fri, 17 Dec 2021 05:41 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 6:45:55 PM UTC-5, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 12/13/2021 2:28 PM, Eli Kesef wrote:
>
> > When you always play opponents equal to you or better, than chess becomes a very stressful undertaking. Play weaker ones, and you are just having fun.
> That's just great, if you enjoy winning more than improving your game.
> Not me. Back when I was an active player (the late 1950s), I always
> wanted to play players stronger than me, so I could learn from them and
> become a better player.
>
> If I easily beat a weak player, it was meaningless to me. If I lost to a
> stronger player, I almost always learned something and it was valuable.
>
> There were three players in my high school chess club who were stronger
> than me, and they were the ones I always wanted to play. After high
> school when I played at the Manhattan and Marshall clubs, except when I
> cared about my score in a tournament, I always wanted to play Bill
> Lombardy, Edmar Mednis, Jimmy Sherwin, Arthur Bisguier, and other strong
> players so I could learn from them.

I am now in a state of serious envy.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 07:16:36 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:16 UTC

On 12/16/2021 10:41 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 6:45:55 PM UTC-5, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 12/13/2021 2:28 PM, Eli Kesef wrote:
>>
>> > When you always play opponents equal to you or better, than chess becomes a very stressful undertaking. Play weaker ones, and you are just having fun.
>> That's just great, if you enjoy winning more than improving your game.
>> Not me. Back when I was an active player (the late 1950s), I always
>> wanted to play players stronger than me, so I could learn from them and
>> become a better player.
>>
>> If I easily beat a weak player, it was meaningless to me. If I lost to a
>> stronger player, I almost always learned something and it was valuable.
>>
>> There were three players in my high school chess club who were stronger
>> than me, and they were the ones I always wanted to play. After high
>> school when I played at the Manhattan and Marshall clubs, except when I
>> cared about my score in a tournament, I always wanted to play Bill
>> Lombardy, Edmar Mednis, Jimmy Sherwin, Arthur Bisguier, and other strong
>> players so I could learn from them.
>
> I am now in a state of serious envy.

I knew Lombardy (and Fischer) very well. I played both many times. I
almost always beat Fischer when he was 13 and under (before he became
very strong), but I never beat Lombardy. I played Mednis, Sherwin, and
Biguier much less often, and I don't think I ever beat any of them either.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 07:21:13 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:21 UTC

On 12/16/2021 10:39 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
>> > On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
>> > > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> > > > > Bs"d
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
>> > > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
>> > > Bs"d
>> > >
>> > > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
>> > Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
>> Bs"d
>>
>> That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.
>> > > So terrible players it is for me.
>> > >
>> > > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
>> > Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).
>> That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players.
>
> Let us say that they are terrible compared to the ratings that they hold. We are all, of course, terrible compared to the people at the top, but some are terrible even compared to other terrible players.
>
>> I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.
>> > You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.
>> Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit
>
> Mostly they are, no doubt about it.

If by "mostly," you don't mean all of them, sure. The Queen's gambit,
perhaps the Marshall Attack, and a few others are counterexamples.

> But not so bad as to be unplayable, even in serious chess, where the
> opponent has a long time to work out a response. As someone once said
> "No gambit works in theory, but all work in practice". With some
> exaggeration.

"No gambit" is a giant exaggeration.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:27 UTC

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 4:21:17 PM UTC+2, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 12/16/2021 10:39 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> >> > > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> > > > > Bs"d
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> >> > > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
> >> > > Bs"d
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
> >> > Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
> >> Bs"d
> >>
> >> That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.
> >> > > So terrible players it is for me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
> >> > Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).
> >> That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players.
> >
> > Let us say that they are terrible compared to the ratings that they hold. We are all, of course, terrible compared to the people at the top, but some are terrible even compared to other terrible players.
> >
> >> I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.
> >> > You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.
> >> Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit
> >
> > Mostly they are, no doubt about it.
> If by "mostly," you don't mean all of them, sure. The Queen's gambit,
> perhaps the Marshall Attack, and a few others are counterexamples.
> > But not so bad as to be unplayable, even in serious chess, where the
> > opponent has a long time to work out a response. As someone once said
> > "No gambit works in theory, but all work in practice". With some
> > exaggeration.
> "No gambit" is a giant exaggeration.

Bs"d

The queen's gambit is not a real gambit, because you can always get the pawn back. So you cannot bring that as an example that some gambits are solid and playable.

https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sat, 18 Dec 2021 23:18 UTC

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:21:17 AM UTC-5, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 12/16/2021 10:39 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> >> > > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> >> > > > > Bs"d
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
> >> > > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
> >> > > Bs"d
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
> >> > Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
> >> Bs"d
> >>
> >> That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.
> >> > > So terrible players it is for me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
> >> > Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).
> >> That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players.
> >
> > Let us say that they are terrible compared to the ratings that they hold. We are all, of course, terrible compared to the people at the top, but some are terrible even compared to other terrible players.
> >
> >> I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.
> >> > You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.
> >> Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit
> >
> > Mostly they are, no doubt about it.
> If by "mostly," you don't mean all of them, sure. The Queen's gambit,
> perhaps the Marshall Attack, and a few others are counterexamples.

I think the Marshall and the Benko are sound and playable. I'm not sure if the last word on the King's gambit has been written, I'd take it to be sound at the moment. There is a sound gambit in the Queen's Indian (best known from the Denker-Pinkus game in a US championship. Larsen once took the pawn and won, but he said later "of course it is very bad") and a friend, rated 1900, beat an IM who took the Bxc7 gambit in the Grunfeld.

But you can do well with any gambit, especially if your opponent has read somewhere that it isn't sound, but didn't learn just why it isn't sound.

> > But not so bad as to be unplayable, even in serious chess, where the
> > opponent has a long time to work out a response. As someone once said
> > "No gambit works in theory, but all work in practice". With some
> > exaggeration.
> "No gambit" is a giant exaggeration.

It was a humorous comment. Many of these are attributed to Tartakower, but in this case I think it was a British player.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

<j27f9rFg1a2U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 18:13:31 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 19 Dec 2021 01:13 UTC

On 12/18/2021 4:18 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:21:17 AM UTC-5, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 12/16/2021 10:39 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> >> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
>> >> > On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 12:13:25 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> >> > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 11:08:56 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
>> >> > > > On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> >> > > > > Bs"d
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Another innocent victim of the fishing pole trap. A 1765 bit the dust on move 20 after I fed him a horse of mine, then took his horse, and proceeded to checkmate him: https://lichess.org/kB4ckXzX1nIg
>> >> > > > Playing terrible players certainly hurts your game.
>> >> > > Bs"d
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I don't care about my game getting hurt. I do care about me getting hurt, and that's what happens when I loose.
>> >> > Can't help you there. I'm not a psychiatrist.
>> >> Bs"d
>> >>
>> >> That's OK, I don't need help. I already found the solution; play weak players, and you won't lose too often. It really is that simple.
>> >> > > So terrible players it is for me.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Anyway, the average rating in Lichess is between 1550 and 1600. So a 1765 is way above that. Can't call that a terrible player.
>> >> > Oh yes I can. Lichess ratings are terribly inflated. Your 1765 is about 1200 in the rating pools I have participated in or run (Canadian chess federation, US chess federation, world blitz chess, and so on).
>> >> That would mean that the vast majority of players on lichess are terrible players.
>> >
>> > Let us say that they are terrible compared to the ratings that they hold. We are all, of course, terrible compared to the people at the top, but some are terrible even compared to other terrible players.
>> >
>> >> I don't think it is realistic to say that. I think that players which are far below the average can be called "terrible players", but not the majority of all players.
>> >> > You normally play fairly well, given your trappy style. I commented because in this game, unlike other games, you made two moves that were not blunders but were otherwise pretty bad.
>> >> Gambits themselves are considered bad: https://tinyurl.com/dashing-gambit
>> >
>> > Mostly they are, no doubt about it.
>> If by "mostly," you don't mean all of them, sure. The Queen's gambit,
>> perhaps the Marshall Attack, and a few others are counterexamples.
>
> I think the Marshall and the Benko are sound and playable. I'm not sure if the last word on the King's gambit has been written, I'd take it to be sound at the moment. There is a sound gambit in the Queen's Indian (best known from the Denker-Pinkus game in a US championship. Larsen once took the pawn and won, but he said later "of course it is very bad") and a friend, rated 1900, beat an IM who took the Bxc7 gambit in the Grunfeld.
>
> But you can do well with any gambit, especially if your opponent has read somewhere that it isn't sound, but didn't learn just why it isn't sound.

I agree with all the above.

>> > But not so bad as to be unplayable, even in serious chess, where the
>> > opponent has a long time to work out a response. As someone once said
>> > "No gambit works in theory, but all work in practice". With some
>> > exaggeration.
>> "No gambit" is a giant exaggeration.
>
> It was a humorous comment. Many of these are attributed to Tartakower, but in this case I think it was a British player.

Yes, I understood what you meant. I was pointing that out for anyone
here who didn't.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Mon, 20 Dec 2021 20:56 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing..
>
> So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
>
> Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate..
>
> Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
>
> Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
>
> Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
>
> I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
>
> https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit

Bs"d

Bagged another on with my new Reti opening, followed by the Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/RiMUkizcxcZW

OK, it was a measly 1676?, but it was still funny. The enemy came out of the opening with a castle missing. :)

https://tinyurl.com/winning-only

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 24 Dec 2021 08:17 UTC

Bs"d

Bagged another with the Reti opening, followed by the Tennison gambit. A 1700 bit the dust after falling in the trap in the Tennison: https://lichess.org/lRbxFWRH4zpJ

He came out of the opening with a bishop missing, and the rest was disaster for him.

I hope for him that he learned something from this painful experience.

https://tinyurl.com/Nigel-kill

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 24 Dec 2021 12:01 UTC

Bs"d

A 1750 blundered away a bishop in the Englund gambit: https://lichess.org/glesDGOCwlEt He surrendered unconditionally on move 7.

These are the kind of chess games I like.

https://tinyurl.com/last-blunder

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 25 Dec 2021 19:58 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing..
>
> So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
>
> Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate..
>
> Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
>
> Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
>
> Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
>
> I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
>
> https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit

Bs"d

Like I said: A Tennison gambit was a rare occurrence, because not many people play the Scandinavian. But thanks to that GM in the above youtube, they are now coming thick and fast. Just slaughtered an 1828 with the Tennison. He came out of the opening with a bishop missing, and on move 20 it was all over: https://lichess.org/bG8u0JPzz7SJ

You've got to love those traps!

https://tinyurl.com/trappish

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:39 UTC

Bs"d

A 1722 met the fishing pole trap: https://lichess.org/G4Jgv7fmpcMN He swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. I reeled him in on move 13.

https://tinyurl.com/trappish

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:57 UTC

Bs"d

Things come in clusters. All things. Also fishing poles. Here an 1833? took the bait, and got hooked. He got reeled in on move 11: https://lichess.org/Uxhu9UD8TxVo

https://tinyurl.com/fish-pole-trap

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:40 UTC

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 9:58:32 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.
> >
> > So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> > Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
> >
> > Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.
> >
> > Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
> >
> > Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
> >
> > Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
> >
> > I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> > I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit
> Bs"d
>
> Like I said: A Tennison gambit was a rare occurrence, because not many people play the Scandinavian. But thanks to that GM in the above youtube, they are now coming thick and fast. Just slaughtered an 1828 with the Tennison.. He came out of the opening with a bishop missing, and on move 20 it was all over: https://lichess.org/bG8u0JPzz7SJ
>
> You've got to love those traps!
>
> https://tinyurl.com/trappish

Bs"d

And thanks to my new Reti opening yet another Tennison gambit! An 1822 reacted weird on it, started defending the pawn on e4 with f5. But with a simple tactical trick which I picked up somewhere along the trappy line, a deflection of the king while the queens were eyeing each other, the enemy had to part with his queen for 2 light pieces: https://lichess.org/NPXLEDO0Rag4

It all started with a horse fork, however, that didn't come to anything, because the enemy king consumed the horse. That was a deliberate but painful horse sacrifice. Sometimes the horse has to go for the greater good, the greater good here being the catching of the enemy queen.

And then the enemy queen fell.

The enemy limped on to move 29, before he surrendered unconditionally.

All in all a satisfying game.

https://tinyurl.com/quote-happy

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 22:14 UTC

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing..
>
> So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
>
> Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate..
>
> Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
>
> Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
>
> Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
>
> I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
>
> https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit

Bs"d

Got another Tennison gambit, thanks to that Reti opening: https://lichess.org/67gp9bRhBYoA

The enemy came out of the opening a horse short, and after that a relatively innocent horse fork, which was only going to yield me an exchange, finished him off. He committed hara kiri by pressing the resign button.

https://tinyurl.com/beerklem

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:34 UTC

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 5:14:10 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.
> >
> > So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> > Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
> >
> > Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.
> >
> > Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
> >
> > Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
> >
> > Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
> >
> > I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> > I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit
> Bs"d
>
> Got another Tennison gambit, thanks to that Reti opening: https://lichess..org/67gp9bRhBYoA
>
> The enemy came out of the opening a horse short, and after that a relatively innocent horse fork, which was only going to yield me an exchange, finished him off. He committed hara kiri by pressing the resign button.

He committed suicide with Nb3. He might be about 1200 in our speed rating system.

"Resigns" was perhaps his best move in the game, though he should have played it much earlier.

Usually your games have some amusement factor, seeing how people cope with your trappy openings. But not this time. You'd beat this guy about as fast with 1a3.

I've advised a couple of (real) 1500 players I know to get on lichess. I'd like to see what ratings they wind up with. One is a big Stafford gambit fan.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Thu, 6 Jan 2022 15:21 UTC

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 3:34:59 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 5:14:10 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.
> > >
> > > So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> > > Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
> > >
> > > Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.
> > >
> > > Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
> > >
> > > Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
> > >
> > > Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
> > >
> > > I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> > > I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
> > >
> > > https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Got another Tennison gambit, thanks to that Reti opening: https://lichess.org/67gp9bRhBYoA
> >
> > The enemy came out of the opening a horse short, and after that a relatively innocent horse fork, which was only going to yield me an exchange, finished him off. He committed hara kiri by pressing the resign button.
> He committed suicide with Nb3. He might be about 1200 in our speed rating system.
>
> "Resigns" was perhaps his best move in the game, though he should have played it much earlier.
>
> Usually your games have some amusement factor, seeing how people cope with your trappy openings. But not this time. You'd beat this guy about as fast with 1a3.

Bs"d

I think you're right. It was not so much a trap as a course blunder by the enemy.

But this one is closer to a trap I think, even though it is also a good pair of blunders: https://lichess.org/cRkZCwOvcVLR

First blunder was h6, giving me Qh5+, second blunder was resigning on move 5. Because if I would have made the fork on f7, he could play Qe8, pinning the horse on my queen, and things are not clear from there.

But be that as it may; fact is that the Tennison gambit came through for me.. Again. :D

> I've advised a couple of (real) 1500 players I know to get on lichess. I'd like to see what ratings they wind up with. One is a big Stafford gambit fan.
>
> William Hyde

Might be interesting.

"real 1500 players", is that 1500 FIDE?

https://tinyurl.com/Tennison-tank-missile

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 6 Jan 2022 22:04 UTC

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 10:21:15 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 3:34:59 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 5:14:10 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > Bs"d
> > > >
> > > > I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.
> > > >
> > > > So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1.Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> > > > Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
> > > >
> > > > Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.
> > > >
> > > > Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
> > > >
> > > > Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
> > > >
> > > > Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
> > > >
> > > > I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> > > > I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
> > > >
> > > > https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > Got another Tennison gambit, thanks to that Reti opening: https://lichess.org/67gp9bRhBYoA
> > >
> > > The enemy came out of the opening a horse short, and after that a relatively innocent horse fork, which was only going to yield me an exchange, finished him off. He committed hara kiri by pressing the resign button.
> > He committed suicide with Nb3. He might be about 1200 in our speed rating system.
> >
> > "Resigns" was perhaps his best move in the game, though he should have played it much earlier.
> >
> > Usually your games have some amusement factor, seeing how people cope with your trappy openings. But not this time. You'd beat this guy about as fast with 1a3.
> Bs"d
>
> I think you're right. It was not so much a trap as a course blunder by the enemy.
>
> But this one is closer to a trap I think, even though it is also a good pair of blunders: https://lichess.org/cRkZCwOvcVLR
>
> First blunder was h6,

I think f5 is the first blunder. Not that it is necessarily a terrible move - I have no idea - but exposing your king like
that without any idea of what to do next is a blunder. And as he showed with h6, he had no such idea.

> giving me Qh5+, second blunder was resigning on move 5. Because if I would have made the fork on f7, he could play Qe8, pinning the horse on my queen, and things are not clear from there.

Actually, white has several ways of winning. Resigning is the best move here.

>
> But be that as it may; fact is that the Tennison gambit came through for me. Again. :D
> > I've advised a couple of (real) 1500 players I know to get on lichess. I'd like to see what ratings they wind up with. One is a big Stafford gambit fan.
> >
> > William Hyde
> Might be interesting.
>
> "real 1500 players", is that 1500 FIDE?

USCF. I'll keep you posted if they bother.

William Hyde

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