On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:22:08 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>krw@notreal.com on Tue, 24 Aug 2021 22:49:58 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>
>>>>That suggests carrying the the tool box everywhere you need to be,
>>>>even if all you need is the screwdriver. My arm is tired just thinking
>>>>about that. ;-)
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>>
>>> Or make up smaller "kits". I've a number of smaller tool bags
>>>dedicated to one category. Unfortunately, that sometimes means, "go
>>>to the Shop, get the other tool bag."
>>
>>That's my MO, as well. I have one (actually two, one for parts) for
>>electrical work, one for plumbing (ick), and one for general home
>>carpentry.
>>
>>> And it adds more points of failure: did I put it away in the right
>>>bag, the wrong bag, or at all?
>>
>>I usually know what sort of work I'm going to be doing and each "kit"
>>has the hand tools needed for that task. Power tools are added as
>>needed.
>
> I'm moving for the umpteenth time. I was still trying to get
>every thing assembled so that I can at least have some idea where it
>is I should be looking for stuff. Trying to sort and pack. It takes
>longer than I expected. Or have.

There's never enough time to move. Economics doesn't often allow
months and a piece of one isn't enough unless, perhaps, you're a kid
starting out. From my experience, then it's a one night deal.

I spent time on the really valuable and fragile stuff, then put
everything from each room in its own set of boxes (heavy stuff went in
plastic totes). Then each box could be unloaded in the appropriate
room and I had some chance of finding things that were needed
immediately (cookware, sheets, TV remote, ...).

krw@notreal.com wrote in news:m6odighsj3533ra6rhdh74mc73s15srm75@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:07:36 -0400, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:
>
>>pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> writes:
>>> And there is putting it "away" and putting it where you will reach for
>>> it.
>>
>>Heh. My rule is thus: if you lose something, when you finally find it
>>and use it and it's time to put it "away", the RIGHT place to put it is
>>the FIRST place you went looking for it.
>
> But you'll always find in the last place you look.

Funny, sometimes I keep looking after I've found it. Guess I'm weird?

(I probably found it and said what else is here? Then did a short cleanup.)

Puckdropper

On 8/25/2021 6:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:13:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/24/2021 11:43 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:55:15 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
> <...>
>>>> Oddly my DC remote switch is almost always found on my TS. I try not to
>>>> move it far from there regardless of what the DC hose is connected to.
>>>
>>> IC epoxy'ed magnets to the back of mine and keep it stuck to the side
>>> of the TS top. I have a TV remote stuck to the side of my bandsaw. ;-)
>>
>> Not a bad idea.... For 14 years I have waited for the day that I suck
>> up the remote and send it on the 30' route to the impeller of the DC. ;~(
>
> You don't have a separator?

I have never had a need.

Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote in
news:2091b0b7-32f0-4b82-a399-985addbcc907n@googlegroups.com:

> This is really directed toward the small to moderate sized personal
> shop, rather than a commercial shop. I am constantly trying to figure
> out better ways to work without wasting time. I have come to the
> conclusion that I waste a huge amount of time looking for the tool I
> just used an hour ago and laid down somewhere that I cannot remember.
> Do any of these ideas work for you? All suggestions appreciated.
>
> 1. Use tools as needed and pile them up on all horizontal surfaces in
> the shop, then hunt them down when needed. Put everything back in it's
> place every day or two.

Yes, sometimes.
> 2. Designate a table or other spot as "return tools here" and pile
> everything there.
>
> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As
> soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.

Create convenient storage. You have to put that screwdriver down
somewhere, why not put it in it's home? A rack on the wall (assuming your
bench abutts it) might be ideal.

I have a small 3D printed screwdriver and pliers box for my model building.
Tools either go there or on my working tray when I set them down. As a
result, I don't lose them too often! (Unless those darn things rolled
under the thing I'm working on.)
> 4. Create one or two small dedicated spots to keep frequently used
> tools handy; hangers on a workbench, a shelf under a work bench, a
> small rolling cabinet.

Yes. Clamps on a rack, saw blades in a custom drawer next to the saw.
> 5. Spend some money on duplicates and place them in key locations in
> the shop. Remote vacuum switch is an example.
>
> Bob

Where I have space, I set up "stations". Each station will have its own
tools, materials focused on the job, etc. An electronics station has the
soldering iron, components, etc. The model repair station has screwdrivers
and pliers. I try hard not to share the tools.

I know it's not always practical. I often build things in the wood shop
that are too big to work for stations (I'd have to have a cutting _room_, a
sanding _room_, a finishing _room_, etc. Cedar_Sonny would have to have a
cutting warehouse, sanding warehouse, finishing warehouse!)

Puckdropper

On 8/26/2021 10:44 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:22:08 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> krw@notreal.com on Tue, 24 Aug 2021 21:08:08 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>>>
>>>>>> As my boss phrased it back in '75: Every place with its thing,
>>>>>> every thing with it place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I amended years later: Just because you don't have time to put
>>>>>> it away, doesn't mean I have the time to look for it."
>>>>>
>>>>> My favorite project management phrase:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up."
>>>>
>>>> We're headed in the wrong direction.
>>>> Yeah, but we're making good time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not enough time to do it right
>>> but enough time to do it over.
>>
>> It is going out of here right. Might as well do it right the first
>> time, than stay late. (We did not get overtime, either.)
>
> At one PPOE, I kept complaining to my manager that what the
> company/project was doing had zero possibility of working but all of
> the groups were marching lock-step to the cliff. His explanation was
> that everyone knew that the program was doomed, no one wanted to be
> the one to say about the VP's attire. He said, "Would you rather be
> run over by a bus today or six months from now.).

The last "real" job that I had 25 years ago I was the GM for an AC Delco
auto parts distributor. I resigned/retired mostly because of the owners
stupidity. They wanted input from me, I had more expertise, in the
business that we were going after, than them. On new programs and I
would most often tell them why they would not work. They would
implement anyway and I would have been telling them "I told you so"
almost on a weekly basis. So I did not.

On 8/25/2021 7:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:31:59 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:07:36 -0400, DJ Delorie <d...@delorie.com> wrote:
>>
>>> pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>>> And there is putting it "away" and putting it where you will reach for
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> Heh. My rule is thus: if you lose something, when you finally find it
>>> and use it and it's time to put it "away", the RIGHT place to put it is
>>> the FIRST place you went looking for it.
>> But you'll always find in the last place you look.
>
> ...and the last place you look is where you put it.
>

So my issue is that what I am looking for is not where I am looking. I
misplaced one of several identical tape measures. My wife and I share a
large desk, 8' long. I told her to keep an eye out for a tape measure
that looks like the one I just sat on the desk.

She picked up the missing tape measure from "her" end of the desk and
sat it in front om me with out saying a word. She moved it 36" to put
it in front of me. I had been looking for it for 3 days. ;~)

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:07:45 PM UTC-4, DJ Delorie wrote:
> pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:
> > And there is putting it "away" and putting it where you will reach for
> > it.
> Heh. My rule is thus: if you lose something, when you finally find it
> and use it and it's time to put it "away", the RIGHT place to put it is
> the FIRST place you went looking for it.

Sure...but you're only talking about cleaning up after a project or the
final use of a tool during the project. I think that many of us lose our
tools *during* the project and can't find it when we need to put one
tool down and pick up another.

e.g. I need a screwdriver.

Let's say I was disciplined and I put it away the last time I used it,
so my tool box is the first place I look. Yep, there it is.

So I use it in the shop. Then I carry it out to the car and use it there.
Then I carry it into the garage and use it there. Now I'm back in the
shop and I've lost it.

The first place I looked was my tool box, but that isn't the last place
I used it, and it wasn't time to put it away, so it's not there. It's lost
and I'm hunting. ;-)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:53:19 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:2091b0b7-32f0-4b82-a399-985addbcc907n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> This is really directed toward the small to moderate sized personal
>> shop, rather than a commercial shop. I am constantly trying to figure
>> out better ways to work without wasting time. I have come to the
>> conclusion that I waste a huge amount of time looking for the tool I
>> just used an hour ago and laid down somewhere that I cannot remember.
>> Do any of these ideas work for you? All suggestions appreciated.
>>
>> 1. Use tools as needed and pile them up on all horizontal surfaces in
>> the shop, then hunt them down when needed. Put everything back in it's
>> place every day or two.
>
>Yes, sometimes.
>
>> 2. Designate a table or other spot as "return tools here" and pile
>> everything there.
>>
>> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As
>> soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.
>
>Create convenient storage. You have to put that screwdriver down
>somewhere, why not put it in it's home? A rack on the wall (assuming your
>bench abutts it) might be ideal.

That might work or a small shop but walking across the room to put a
screwdriver away after every use isn't likely to happen.
>
>I have a small 3D printed screwdriver and pliers box for my model building.
>Tools either go there or on my working tray when I set them down. As a
>result, I don't lose them too often! (Unless those darn things rolled
>under the thing I'm working on.)
>
>> 4. Create one or two small dedicated spots to keep frequently used
>> tools handy; hangers on a workbench, a shelf under a work bench, a
>> small rolling cabinet.
>
>Yes. Clamps on a rack, saw blades in a custom drawer next to the saw.

Clamps tend to be used or not. One doesn't generally put them down
between use.
>
>> 5. Spend some money on duplicates and place them in key locations in
>> the shop. Remote vacuum switch is an example.
>>
>> Bob
>
>Where I have space, I set up "stations". Each station will have its own
>tools, materials focused on the job, etc. An electronics station has the
>soldering iron, components, etc. The model repair station has screwdrivers
>and pliers. I try hard not to share the tools.
>
>I know it's not always practical. I often build things in the wood shop
>that are too big to work for stations (I'd have to have a cutting _room_, a
>sanding _room_, a finishing _room_, etc. Cedar_Sonny would have to have a
>cutting warehouse, sanding warehouse, finishing warehouse!)

Do you have a set of screwdrivers, wrenches, chisels, etc. in each
room?

krw@notreal.com on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:54:15 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>> I'm moving for the umpteenth time. I was still trying to get
>>every thing assembled so that I can at least have some idea where it
>>is I should be looking for stuff. Trying to sort and pack. It takes
>>longer than I expected. Or have.
>
>There's never enough time to move. Economics doesn't often allow
>months and a piece of one isn't enough unless, perhaps, you're a kid
>starting out. From my experience, then it's a one night deal.
>
>I spent time on the really valuable and fragile stuff, then put
>everything from each room in its own set of boxes (heavy stuff went in
>plastic totes). Then each box could be unloaded in the appropriate
>room and I had some chance of finding things that were needed
>immediately (cookware, sheets, TV remote, ...).

The wife is in charge of the House. She is doing well at that
end.

I have the two outbuildings and the yard. I am not doing so well.
At the point of "pack it, label it 'Study / shop' and pile the boxes."
There is some sorting, mostly of the "how critical is this to move?"
There is much "I can use that or something" and now decades later it's
not making the cut. Electric motors, gizmos, doohickeys, "wood for
projects", and all the rest.

We are both under the illusion that once we get moved, everything
can be unpacked into its proper place, and we will be able to use it
all and "finally" get to those projects. And everything else.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com> on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:53:19 GMT
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>
>> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As
>> soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.
>
>Create convenient storage. You have to put that screwdriver down
>somewhere, why not put it in it's home? A rack on the wall (assuming your
>bench abutts it) might be ideal.

Part of industrial layout is to have the tools _at_ the station,
with the one's you use the most on your dominate hand's side. Thus
you can reach the tools you need as you work.
If not, as I said about one layout "Every step I take away from
the work station, is one step closer to the coffee machine."
>
>I have a small 3D printed screwdriver and pliers box for my model building.

Cool. I'm intending to make a bazillion small boxes for mine.

>Tools either go there or on my working tray when I set them down. As a
>result, I don't lose them too often! (Unless those darn things rolled
>under the thing I'm working on.)

:-) one reason to have oval handles, less likely to completely
roll off the work area.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 8/23/2021 8:53 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> This is really directed toward the small to moderate sized personal shop, rather than a commercial shop. I am constantly trying to figure out better ways to work without wasting time. I have come to the conclusion that I waste a huge amount of time looking for the tool I just used an hour ago and laid down somewhere that I cannot remember. Do any of these ideas work for you? All suggestions appreciated.
>
> 1. Use tools as needed and pile them up on all horizontal surfaces in the shop, then hunt them down when needed. Put everything back in it's place every day or two.
>
> 2. Designate a table or other spot as "return tools here" and pile everything there.
>
> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.
>
> 4. Create one or two small dedicated spots to keep frequently used tools handy; hangers on a workbench, a shelf under a work bench, a small rolling cabinet.
>
> 5. Spend some money on duplicates and place them in key locations in the shop. Remote vacuum switch is an example.
>
> Bob
>

I have a mostly metalworking shop (some wood tools), and I have a lot of
lost tools.

I HAVE A PLAN.

Tool boxes and tool carts help a lot. When working on a car or truck I
often load all the tools I need on a cart and wheel it out by the
project. Sometimes I remember to put them away when I'm done.
Sometimes I just grab another cart the next time I tackle a project.
There is a cart full of electrical tools in the house that's been there
for months because that project is dragging on forever.

You asked about in the shop though.

I HAVE A PLAN.

Tool boxes and tool carts help a lot. I have three carts int he shop
and three rollaways, but they are often as much in the way as useful.

I HAVE A PLAN.

Along the 60 foot back wall of my shop I have an hodge podge of benches
and tables that are useful and inefficient at the same time. Some have
a drawer or two. Some half a shelf or two. Some just have cabinets
stuffed under them. I think the volume under the tops is 60-75% wasted
though. They are just the benches I found or could afford. One (a nice
steel top bench actually) came with a free Columbia bench vise. I was
told I could have the vise, but I had to take the bench too... and all
the crap that was under it. almost 10 years later I'm still sorting
through the boxes of stuff that was under it. Anyway.

I HAVE A PLAN.

The plan is to get rid of the roll-away boxes. Get rid of the work
benches and all the shelves and drawers under them. Replace the whole
lot with a single monolithic almost 60 foot (I beam supports at the
ends) steel tube frame steel top work bench with 5 or 6 wings. All one
giant structure. The wings will have 6ft long drawers for things like
installer bits, push rods, etc. In between will have drawers of
various sizes organizing everything. One section will be electrical and
communication. One section will be machine tools
(tap/die/drills/mills), the next section my be a pnuematics or
hydraulics section. One section will be hand tools except that job
specifc tools will be stored in their type of job area. That will be
their place.

WILL I EVER IMPLEMENT MY PLAN?

Maybe. I have ten sheets of 1/4 inch steel plate setting outback. Well
9. I used one to make a dedicated welding table. I have a bunch of 2
inch square tube as well. I can weld. What I lack up in welding skill
I make up for with grinding skill. I just don't have the time for the
most part. I think I would have to stop working for two-three weeks to
implement my plan. I would still need a few tool carts, but parking
them would be much more convenient and lend itself to actually emptying
them when I finish a job. As a result I would need fewer tool carts.
Honestly the big hold up for me is deciding how I want to make the 100
or so drawers needed for the whole thing.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:17:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>krw@notreal.com on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:54:15 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>
>>> I'm moving for the umpteenth time. I was still trying to get
>>>every thing assembled so that I can at least have some idea where it
>>>is I should be looking for stuff. Trying to sort and pack. It takes
>>>longer than I expected. Or have.
>>
>>There's never enough time to move. Economics doesn't often allow
>>months and a piece of one isn't enough unless, perhaps, you're a kid
>>starting out. From my experience, then it's a one night deal.
>>
>>I spent time on the really valuable and fragile stuff, then put
>>everything from each room in its own set of boxes (heavy stuff went in
>>plastic totes). Then each box could be unloaded in the appropriate
>>room and I had some chance of finding things that were needed
>>immediately (cookware, sheets, TV remote, ...).
>
> The wife is in charge of the House. She is doing well at that
>end.
>
> I have the two outbuildings and the yard. I am not doing so well.
>At the point of "pack it, label it 'Study / shop' and pile the boxes."
>There is some sorting, mostly of the "how critical is this to move?"
>There is much "I can use that or something" and now decades later it's
>not making the cut. Electric motors, gizmos, doohickeys, "wood for
>projects", and all the rest.
>
> We are both under the illusion that once we get moved, everything
>can be unpacked into its proper place, and we will be able to use it
>all and "finally" get to those projects. And everything else.

When we move, it's "thinning the herd" time. If it doesn't have
special significance and hasn't been moved in two years, it's gone. A
few moves back, we filled a 20yd dumpster with crap. Junk is too
expensive to move, just to take up more expensive space at the other
end.

We're not moving, I hope, but I just went though all my packed gizmos
and threw 99% of it away. I don't think I'll use 35mm film developing
reels or film canister loaders anytime soon.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:17:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com> on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:53:19 GMT
>typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>
>>> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As
>>> soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.
>>
>>Create convenient storage. You have to put that screwdriver down
>>somewhere, why not put it in it's home? A rack on the wall (assuming your
>>bench abutts it) might be ideal.
>
> Part of industrial layout is to have the tools _at_ the station,
>with the one's you use the most on your dominate hand's side. Thus
>you can reach the tools you need as you work.
> If not, as I said about one layout "Every step I take away from
>the work station, is one step closer to the coffee machine."
>>
>>I have a small 3D printed screwdriver and pliers box for my model building.
>
> Cool. I'm intending to make a bazillion small boxes for mine.

I hadn't realized that they'd gotten so good, and cheap an good. I'll
have to get one to make storage gizmos. The Festool OF-1010 router
dust port adapter that I bought off ebay was printed but I didn't know
printers were available in the low hundreds of dollars (one,
apparently for $99).

krw@notreal.com on Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:48:05 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>> We are both under the illusion that once we get moved, everything
>>can be unpacked into its proper place, and we will be able to use it
>>all and "finally" get to those projects. And everything else.
>
>When we move, it's "thinning the herd" time. If it doesn't have
>special significance and hasn't been moved in two years, it's gone. A
>few moves back, we filled a 20yd dumpster with crap. Junk is too
>expensive to move, just to take up more expensive space at the other
>end.

I moved 3.5 tons of bricks twice. Not doing that again. Loki is
having her minions haul them home a few at a time.
>
>We're not moving, I hope, but I just went though all my packed gizmos
>and threw 99% of it away. I don't think I'll use 35mm film developing
>reels or film canister loaders anytime soon.

That reminds me, I have a camera with film in it. Need to finish
the roll and get it developed.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 8/27/2021 5:48 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:17:58 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> krw@notreal.com on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:54:15 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>>>
>>>> I'm moving for the umpteenth time. I was still trying to get
>>>> every thing assembled so that I can at least have some idea where it
>>>> is I should be looking for stuff. Trying to sort and pack. It takes
>>>> longer than I expected. Or have.
>>>
>>> There's never enough time to move. Economics doesn't often allow
>>> months and a piece of one isn't enough unless, perhaps, you're a kid
>>> starting out. From my experience, then it's a one night deal.
>>>
>>> I spent time on the really valuable and fragile stuff, then put
>>> everything from each room in its own set of boxes (heavy stuff went in
>>> plastic totes). Then each box could be unloaded in the appropriate
>>> room and I had some chance of finding things that were needed
>>> immediately (cookware, sheets, TV remote, ...).
>>
>> The wife is in charge of the House. She is doing well at that
>> end.
>>
>> I have the two outbuildings and the yard. I am not doing so well.
>> At the point of "pack it, label it 'Study / shop' and pile the boxes."
>> There is some sorting, mostly of the "how critical is this to move?"
>> There is much "I can use that or something" and now decades later it's
>> not making the cut. Electric motors, gizmos, doohickeys, "wood for
>> projects", and all the rest.
>>
>> We are both under the illusion that once we get moved, everything
>> can be unpacked into its proper place, and we will be able to use it
>> all and "finally" get to those projects. And everything else.
>
> When we move, it's "thinning the herd" time. If it doesn't have
> special significance and hasn't been moved in two years, it's gone. A
> few moves back, we filled a 20yd dumpster with crap. Junk is too
> expensive to move, just to take up more expensive space at the other
> end.
>
> We're not moving, I hope, but I just went though all my packed gizmos
> and threw 99% of it away. I don't think I'll use 35mm film developing
> reels or film canister loaders anytime soon.
>

I think I got rid of my 35MM film reals and thermometers about 10 years
ago. LOL.

BUT when I was in high school I actually placed in a college level
drafting contest.
I drew a multi angle antenna bracket. I still have the bracket in my
garage and the drawing hanging in my office. That was 50 years ago.
April 27, 1971. Second Place! LOL.

krw@notreal.com wrote in
news:2djgiglrppo7cj2acvell4f0r3jepcermf@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:53:19 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
> wrote:

>>Create convenient storage. You have to put that screwdriver down
>>somewhere, why not put it in it's home? A rack on the wall (assuming
>>your bench abutts it) might be ideal.
>
> That might work or a small shop but walking across the room to put a
> screwdriver away after every use isn't likely to happen.

Right. That's why you set up a screwdriver "home" at each location. A
bench gets its screwdrivers, another work space gets it's screwdrivers,
etc. If it's not in arm's reach, it won't be used.

>>Where I have space, I set up "stations". Each station will have its
>>own tools, materials focused on the job, etc. An electronics station
>>has the soldering iron, components, etc. The model repair station has
>>screwdrivers and pliers. I try hard not to share the tools.
>>
>>I know it's not always practical. I often build things in the wood
>>shop that are too big to work for stations (I'd have to have a cutting
>>_room_, a sanding _room_, a finishing _room_, etc. Cedar_Sonny would
>>have to have a cutting warehouse, sanding warehouse, finishing
>>warehouse!)
>
> Do you have a set of screwdrivers, wrenches, chisels, etc. in each
> room?

You put the tools in the room most likely to be used for each task. The
finishing room doesn't need chisels and saws, it needs brushes and sand
paper.

Puckdropper

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 11:53:29 AM UTC-4, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> This is really directed toward the small to moderate sized personal shop, rather than a commercial shop. I am constantly trying to figure out better ways to work without wasting time. I have come to the conclusion that I waste a huge amount of time looking for the tool I just used an hour ago and laid down somewhere that I cannot remember. Do any of these ideas work for you? All suggestions appreciated.
>
> 1. Use tools as needed and pile them up on all horizontal surfaces in the shop, then hunt them down when needed. Put everything back in it's place every day or two.
>
> 2. Designate a table or other spot as "return tools here" and pile everything there.
>
> 3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.
>
> 4. Create one or two small dedicated spots to keep frequently used tools handy; hangers on a workbench, a shelf under a work bench, a small rolling cabinet.
>
> 5. Spend some money on duplicates and place them in key locations in the shop. Remote vacuum switch is an example.
>
> Bob

Trying to pay attention to the issue of losing hand tools and hoping to lessen the
occurrence, I noticed something that I did today. I'll bet I do it a lot.

I had an couple of items that I wanted to hang on hooks. The items have a tab
through which I could slip a zip tie to use as a hanger. Both items were lying on
a work surface that I have in the garage. On that work surface is a 3 drawered
toolbox. I slipped the zip tie through the tab, grabbed a pair of diagonal cutters
from the tool box and carried the item and the tool over to the garbage can on
the other side of the garage. I snipped the end of the zip tie directly into the can
and then walked over to the hook to hang the item. Nice!

I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.

I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. Like taking a car part and tool down
to the shop, working on the part and then the bringing only the part back outside
to the car, leaving the tool behind. If there's a long delay between the use of that
tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.

I'll need to work on that. I need to stay more conscious of what I do with the
tool, not just what I'm using it on.

Wish me luck. ;-)

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
> item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
> garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.

> I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
> move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....

> If there's a long delay between the use of that
> tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.

I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.

Sonny

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 6:03:04 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> > I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
> > item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
> > garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.
>
> > I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
> > move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....
> > If there's a long delay between the use of that
> > tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.
> I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.
>
> Sonny

I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

On 9/19/2021 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 6:03:04 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
>>> item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
>>> garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.
>>
>>> I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
>>> move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....
>>> If there's a long delay between the use of that
>>> tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.
>> I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.
>>
>> Sonny
>
> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
>
I have had to many accidental items thrown away, by storing things over
the garbage can. My wife stored her duster over the garbage can, and
just recently realized it had fallen in the garbage can. Fortunately I
am a pack rat, saw it and pulled it when I was transferring the garage
garbage can to the street tote.

There is too much danger of loosing tool by storing them over a garbage can

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

Bob

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
<wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
>> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
>> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.

>There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
(too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
bifocals but part of you.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
<wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
>> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
>> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
>
>There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

My problem is that I've always been 20/15. Only now it's just from
about a foot in front of me to about 2 feet in front of me.

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
> >> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
> >> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
> Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
> asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
> glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
> eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
> top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
> eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.
> >There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)
> Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
> distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
> like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
> the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
> (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
> bifocals but part of you.

No-line bifocals or progressive lenses? No-line bifocals is actually an
incorrect term for progressive lenses since progressive lenses don't
have only 2 corrective areas. The correction truly is progressive as you
move up and down the lens.

I've tried progressives, three times. The first time they built them wrong.
They didn't follow the prescription correctly.

Then when they made the second set of lenses, it was determined that
the prescription was written wrong. For all the fancy equipment that the
doc used to write the prescription, the optician figured out that the
prescription was wrong in a matter of seconds. When I went in to pick
up the glasses I almost immediately thought something was wrong.
She handed me a card to read and I was able to find a spot on the lens
where the text was clear, but when I looked up everything was blurry.
The optician said "Look at the Exit sign at the end of that hallway. How's
it look?" It was all blurry. There wasn't a single spot on the lens where I
could bring it into focus. New prescription required.

The third time they apparently got everything right because if I try hard
enough, I can find an area of the lens that works for various distances. The
problem is that I just can't train my brain to find those spots consistently.

My work requires 2 monitors, papers on my desk, my mobile phone, etc.
Since everything is at a different distance, progressives force you to keep
moving your head up and down and side to side. A slight head tilt screws
everything up. Clear peripheral vision is non-existent, just by nature of the
way progressive lenses are made. As the optician explained, when it comes
to progressives "A millimeter is as bad as a mile". If they build the lens just
slightly off your center line of sight or the glasses slip down your nose or you
sit back a little further, everything changes. Some people, like me (and SWMBO)
just can't get used to progressives. Trust me, I really tried.

I'm back to using my bi-focals 99% of the time and 2.5 readers when I
I need to do closeup work where I can set a consistent working distance
and just need the magnification to bring everything into focus.

krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
> <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
>>> that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
>>> you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
>
> Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
> asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
> glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
> eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
> top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
> eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.
>
>>There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)
>
> Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
> distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
> like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
> the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
> (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
> bifocals but part of you.
>
I had implant lens done several years ago. Left for close-up and
right for distant (for shooting). They overlap at about 12 ft. Never
had a second's trouble. I never know which eye is working unless I
look out the windshield at a distant object and close my right eye and
the object is blurry. Looking at the car instruments and close the
left eye and they are out of focus. But I can look at the computer
screen and then look out the window and across the street and never
have to think which eye is working so they work seamlessly.
My wife has the same setup for several years with no problems.
However, she lost her left eye from Temporal Arteritis and now has to
wear bifocal on the right to counteract the implanted lens, otherwise
she could not read with that eye. Still better than cataracts.
Now for today's joke: A doctor was examining a oriental man's
eyes and said, "Hm, I see you have a cataract". The patient
exclaimed, "No, No, it's a Rincoln Continental".

--
G Ross