https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7457905
Has anyone else got her birthplace etc plz.. thank you

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 10:29:00 AM UTC-7, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7457905
> Has anyone else got her birthplace etc plz.. thank you

John was living in 1457, and dead by 1490
His wife Elizabeth Wyfold was under-age in 1456
He was her first husband

Elizabeth married secondly to
Henry, 1st Baron /Marney/ , Knt < 1504
and their daughter Grace was born by 1496

That's what we know

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 3:18:41 PM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
....
> John was living in 1457, and dead by 1490
....
According to his Buckinghamshire IPM (assuming this is the John Norris under discussion), John Norris died on 1 October 1 Henry VII. https://books.google.com/books?id=xPMLAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA43
His Kent IPM is here, https://books.google.com/books?id=xPMLAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA51

The image of the Chancery pleading is here, http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no151/IMG_0220.htm.

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 12:29:17 PM UTC-4, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 3:18:41 PM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
> > John was living in 1457, and dead by 1490
> ...
> According to his Buckinghamshire IPM (assuming this is the John Norris under discussion), John Norris died on 1 October 1 Henry VII. https://books.google.com/books?id=xPMLAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA43
> His Kent IPM is here, https://books.google.com/books?id=xPMLAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA51
I should have typed 10 October 1 Henry VII.

Thank you everyone. Is it agreed that 'Amy' (d/o John ) is Anne ?
C 1/151/124
Description:
Short title: Norreis v Norreis.
Plaintiffs: Amy, daughter of John Norreis, esquire, deceased.
Defendants: William Norreis, feoffee to uses.
Subject: The manors of Goldston, Nelmes, and Poulders, and land and rent in Bledlow, Princes Risborough, and Monks Risborough. Kent, Buckinghamshire.
SFP
Date: 1486-1493, or 1504-1515
Held by: The National Archive

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 3:48:01 PM UTC-4, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> Thank you everyone. Is it agreed that 'Amy' (d/o John ) is Anne ?
> C 1/151/124
> Description:
> Short title: Norreis v Norreis.
> Plaintiffs: Amy, daughter of John Norreis, esquire, deceased.
> Defendants: William Norreis, feoffee to uses.
> Subject: The manors of Goldston, Nelmes, and Poulders, and land and rent in Bledlow, Princes Risborough, and Monks Risborough. Kent, Buckinghamshire.
> SFP
> Date: 1486-1493, or 1504-1515
> Held by: The National Archive

In the image, I see A followed by four minims and then e. The person who wrote this document doesn't generally put a dot over the letter i. Thus, I think the name could be either Anne or Amie.

Thank you Jan

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 11:31:05 AM UTC-4, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> Thank you Jan

Les (Please correct me if that's not your name. Google Groups shows a partial email but not a name for you.),

Have you transcribed the Chancery document? If you have, perhaps you can post the transcription here. I noticed that this document does provide some information about Amie/Anne's age and it states the given name of her father's wife as Isabel, rather than Elizabeth. The words near the right edge of the image appear unreadable to me in the image on AALT, but I think the rest of the document could be transcribed with some effort.

Jan

On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 3:49:57 PM UTC-7, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 11:31:05 AM UTC-4, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> > Thank you Jan
>
> Les (Please correct me if that's not your name. Google Groups shows a partial email but not a name for you.),
>
> Have you transcribed the Chancery document? If you have, perhaps you can post the transcription here. I noticed that this document does provide some information about Amie/Anne's age and it states the given name of her father's wife as Isabel, rather than Elizabeth. The words near the right edge of the image appear unreadable to me in the image on AALT, but I think the rest of the document could be transcribed with some effort.
>
> Jan

In this time period it's not unknown that Isabel and Elizabeth were considered the same name.

On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:25:36 AM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:

> In this time period it's not unknown that Isabel and Elizabeth were considered the same name.

Thanks, Will, that's a good point about the name of the wife of John Norreys/Norris. Will you please post links and/or citations documenting the second marriage and child of Isabel/Elizabeth Wyfold mentioned in your earlier post in this thread? Or, if this information has already been discussed in another thread, will you please post a link to that thread here? Thanks.

On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:05:24 AM UTC-7, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:25:36 AM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > In this time period it's not unknown that Isabel and Elizabeth were considered the same name.
> Thanks, Will, that's a good point about the name of the wife of John Norreys/Norris. Will you please post links and/or citations documenting the second marriage and child of Isabel/Elizabeth Wyfold mentioned in your earlier post in this thread? Or, if this information has already been discussed in another thread, will you please post a link to that thread here? Thanks.

This is in CPO here, at the bottom of this page "Grant to Henry Marny...."

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026362&view=1up&seq=361

On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:05:24 AM UTC-7, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:25:36 AM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > In this time period it's not unknown that Isabel and Elizabeth were considered the same name.
> Thanks, Will, that's a good point about the name of the wife of John Norreys/Norris. Will you please post links and/or citations documenting the second marriage and child of Isabel/Elizabeth Wyfold mentioned in your earlier post in this thread? Or, if this information has already been discussed in another thread, will you please post a link to that thread here? Thanks.

This is in CPR here

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026362&view=1up&seq=361

the last entry on this page

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:53:51 AM UTC-4, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
> This is in CPR here
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026362&view=1up&seq=361
> the last entry on this page
Thanks, Will.

Seems most odd to have Anne/Amie and Elizabeth, with the Marney line.
I have tried to transcribe, but as you say, right-hand side is very off putting.

Thank you both.
Les

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:25:47 AM UTC-4, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> Seems most odd to have Anne/Amie and Elizabeth, with the Marney line.
> I have tried to transcribe, but as you say, right-hand side is very off putting.
>
> Thank you both.
> Les
In the PCC copy of the 1516 will of Edward Sulyard, spouse of Anne/Amie Norreys, her name is again written as A, four minims, e, and again, the letter i is not dotted in other words in the will. However, the published online accounts I have seen, except for TNA's abstract of the Chancery case, all show her name as Anne. I think we can ignore the Amie possibility as you previously suggested. Edward's will is available on Ancestry, https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311117-00293?pId=911004.

In his 1523 will (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311120-00137?pId=867740), Henry Marny stated the names of his wives as Thomasyn and Elizabeth, first in the part about praying for his soul, their souls, and the souls of his parents, paternal grandparents and great grandparents, deceased son Thomas, and other unnamed deceased children and, second, in the instructions for building his tomb with an image of Thomasyn and her arms on his right and an image of Elizabeth and her arms on his left.

Henry mentioned sons-in-law Edmund Bedyngfeld and Thomas Bonam. He bequeathed C li to Thomas Bonam's eldest son John, when age 20 and if he should die to second son William and if he should die to potential future sons in succession. He bequeathed C li to the son and heir of Edmund in like manner, but since he did not state any names perhaps any such heirs were not yet born or were very young. He bequeathed to "Anne Bonam doughter of Thomas Bonam xx li to be paid as is aforesaid" (as specified for John Bonam).

Henry bequeathed to "William Latham and my doughter his wife xx li" (perhaps a second husband of Isabel/Elizabeth's daughter Anne (Norreys) Sulyard). Henry also bequeathed to Eustace Sulyarde x li and to Myriable Sulyarde x li and willed that Frances Sulyarde "be found to scole for the space of iij yeres after my decesse."

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:00:04 PM UTC+1, Jan Wolfe wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:25:47 AM UTC-4, coxol...@sky.com wrote:
> > Seems most odd to have Anne/Amie and Elizabeth, with the Marney line.
> > I have tried to transcribe, but as you say, right-hand side is very off putting.
> >
> > Thank you both.
> > Les
> In the PCC copy of the 1516 will of Edward Sulyard, spouse of Anne/Amie Norreys, her name is again written as A, four minims, e, and again, the letter i is not dotted in other words in the will. However, the published online accounts I have seen, except for TNA's abstract of the Chancery case, all show her name as Anne. I think we can ignore the Amie possibility as you previously suggested. Edward's will is available on Ancestry, https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311117-00293?pId=911004.
>
> In his 1523 will (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311120-00137?pId=867740), Henry Marny stated the names of his wives as Thomasyn and Elizabeth, first in the part about praying for his soul, their souls, and the souls of his parents, paternal grandparents and great grandparents, deceased son Thomas, and other unnamed deceased children and, second, in the instructions for building his tomb with an image of Thomasyn and her arms on his right and an image of Elizabeth and her arms on his left.
>
> Henry mentioned sons-in-law Edmund Bedyngfeld and Thomas Bonam. He bequeathed C li to Thomas Bonam's eldest son John, when age 20 and if he should die to second son William and if he should die to potential future sons in succession. He bequeathed C li to the son and heir of Edmund in like manner, but since he did not state any names perhaps any such heirs were not yet born or were very young. He bequeathed to "Anne Bonam doughter of Thomas Bonam xx li to be paid as is aforesaid" (as specified for John Bonam).
>
> Henry bequeathed to "William Latham and my doughter his wife xx li" (perhaps a second husband of Isabel/Elizabeth's daughter Anne (Norreys) Sulyard).. Henry also bequeathed to Eustace Sulyarde x li and to Myriable Sulyarde x li and willed that Frances Sulyarde "be found to scole for the space of iij yeres after my decesse."

?? is Anne the daughter of " John Norris of Bray" will 1466.
(Anne older and Anne younger?)

Thank you

Is this the son of "will 1466" John of Bray.
https://archive.org/details/calendarofinquis02great/page/292/mode/1up?view=theater&q=Norrys . Included in ipm Isabelle Beke (wife of Edward Lancaster)