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interests / rec.gardens.edible / Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

SubjectAuthor
* What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
+* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
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| `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|     `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|      `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|       `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
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|        |   +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
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|        |   | `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
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|        |    |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
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|        |    |  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |   +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |   |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |   | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
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|        |    |    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |     `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |     `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        |   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
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`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
 +- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
 `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T

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What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t874h0$lub$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 03:45:50 -0700
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 by: T - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 10:45 UTC

and keep it organic.

Seaweed?

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntae8mn.md7.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:43 UTC

On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> and keep it organic.

> Seaweed?

wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.

i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
their organic acidifier to lower ph.

https://www.espoma.com

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t87l24$9cn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 08:28:02 -0700
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 by: T - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 15:28 UTC

On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> and keep it organic.
>
>> Seaweed?
>
> wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
>
> i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
> their organic acidifier to lower ph.
>
> https://www.espoma.com
>

Thank you!

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t884an$uug$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 12:48:38 -0700
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 by: T - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 19:48 UTC

On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> and keep it organic.
>
>> Seaweed?
>
> wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
>
> i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
> their organic acidifier to lower ph.
>
> https://www.espoma.com
>

Just found out from Espoma that they no longer
produce their potash

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntah65u.ucr.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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<t884an$uug$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:18 UTC

On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> and keep it organic.
>>> Seaweed?
>> wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
>> i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
>> their organic acidifier to lower ph.
>> https://www.espoma.com

> Just found out from Espoma that they no longer
> produce their potash

i didn't notice it wasn't on the shelves of the retailer i purchase
Espoma products at since i have enough to last a few years. wasn't
looking for it. i use a lot more blood and bone meal than i do potash.

i suggest check with a local nursery. i've never been to one that wasn't
happy to share knowledge even if they didn't carry what i was looking for.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntajgvn.to8.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:35 UTC

On 2022-06-14, fos@sdf.org <fos@sdf.org> wrote:
> On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> and keep it organic.

>>>> Seaweed?

>>> wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.

>>> i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
>>> their organic acidifier to lower ph.

>>> https://www.espoma.com

>> Just found out from Espoma that they no longer
>> produce their potash

> i didn't notice it wasn't on the shelves of the retailer i purchase
> Espoma products at since i have enough to last a few years. wasn't
> looking for it. i use a lot more blood and bone meal than i do potash.

> i suggest check with a local nursery. i've never been to one that wasn't
> happy to share knowledge even if they didn't carry what i was looking for.

i stopped at the store that carries Espoma products last night and sure
enough, there is not any Espoma potash on the shelves. i didn't see any
other potassium only products either. next time i'm at the nursery i'll
ask them for advice.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<5i5pni-ht2.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 10:05:25 -0400
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 by: songbird - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 14:05 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:

....

if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntak7s6.qsp.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 18:05 UTC

On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:

> ...

> if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
> their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.

i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8dapj$4ul$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 12:09:39 -0700
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 by: T - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 19:09 UTC

On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>
>> ...
>
>> if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
>> their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
>
> i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
> flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
> potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
> recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
> soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
>

What do you guys think of this stuff?

https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<bp7qni-pn5.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 19:49:31 -0400
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 by: songbird - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 23:49 UTC

T wrote:
> On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>> if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
>>> their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
>>
>> i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
>> flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
>> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
>> potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
>> recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
>> soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
>>
>
> What do you guys think of this stuff?
>
> https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_humate

what problem are you trying to address?

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8e03e$bvf$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 18:13:17 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Thu, 16 Jun 2022 01:13 UTC

On 6/15/22 16:49, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
>> On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>>>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>> if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
>>>> their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
>>>
>>> i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
>>> flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
>>> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
>>> potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
>>> recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
>>> soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
>>>
>>
>> What do you guys think of this stuff?
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_humate
>
>
> what problem are you trying to address?
>
>
> songbird

Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
Perfect, except everything in miniature.

https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntam2cf.r83.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Thu, 16 Jun 2022 10:44 UTC

On 2022-06-16, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 6/15/22 16:49, songbird wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>> On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>>> On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>>>>> fos@sdf.org wrote:

>>>>> ...

>>>>> if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
>>>>> their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.

>>>> i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
>>>> flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
>>>> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
>>>> potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
>>>> recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
>>>> soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.

>>> What do you guys think of this stuff?

>>> https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_humate
>> what problem are you trying to address?

> Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
> except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
> the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
> yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
> Perfect, except everything in miniature.

> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX

i still consider myself a gardening novice, been doing it for only a few
years. i have a lot to learn too, am looking forward to seeing if anyone
with experience contributes.

i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.

the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
roots a chance to develop.

the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
planting.

this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.

right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.

am i following the right path here?

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<mehrni-mf6.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 07:40:38 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <mehrni-mf6.ln1@anthive.com>
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 by: songbird - Thu, 16 Jun 2022 11:40 UTC

T wrote:
....
> Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
> except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
> the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
> yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
> Perfect, except everything in miniature.
>
>
> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX

when was that harvested? last summer? when was it planted
and how was it treated? were the starts small to begin with?

every year to replant i pick only the largest cloves from
a bulb to replant. it will take three years to go from tiny
starts to larger bulb sizes.

what is your elevation? i'm wondering if the sun is just
to harsh for garlic there.

other than decent quality soil and enough moisture garlic
is a crop i like to grow because nothing eats it and i can
put it in a garden outside the fence.

i know you have a problem with soils because of your
location but by now you should have some sort of topsoil
built up if you've been composting and scrounging organic
materials.

you can probably get by with 1/2 cubic foot per bulb if
you use the valuable good soil down deeper (below where
you'd plant the bulb) and then top it off with your poorer
quality and sandier soil. pH probably should be 6.0 - 7.0.

bulbs should normally be planted about three times the
size of the bulb deep, you can go a little deeper if you're
subject to animals digging or harsher climates but i only
plant garlic deeper here if i'm after green garlic for
earlier harvest as that makes for more white blanched stem.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8fk5t$elp$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:02:03 -0700
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 by: T - Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:02 UTC

> what problem are you trying to address?
>
>
> songbird
On 6/15/22 18:13, T wrote:
> Perfect miniature garlic.  Every thing is perfect,
> except they are 1/4 the size they should be.  1/4
> the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc.  Absolutely
> yummy.  Hard kernels.   Loved the winter.
> Perfect, except everything in miniature.
>
>
> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
And green beans the size of tooth picks.
A single bell pepper the size of a peanut.
Two cucumbers per plant

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8fl79$mbr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:19:51 -0700
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 by: T - Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:19 UTC

On 6/16/22 04:40, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...
>> Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
>> except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
>> the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
>> yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
>> Perfect, except everything in miniature.
>>
>>
>> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
>
> when was that harvested?

These are them:
https://www.burpee.com/garlic-spanish-roja-prod001489.html

Late May after the tops all went yellow and fell off

> when was it planted

In early October. First frost was late October

> and how was it treated?

With love and care!

Dumped a bag of fertilizer on them before watering them in.
Burpee organic for tomatoes. 5 lb.

They came up in about a week.

>were the starts small to begin with?

Yes. They grew to about six to seven inches and stopped.
Stayed beautifully green all winter.

My green onions got to about 2 feet tall over winter

>
> every year to replant i pick only the largest cloves from
> a bulb to replant. it will take three years to go from tiny
> starts to larger bulb sizes.
>
> what is your elevation? i'm wondering if the sun is just
> to harsh for garlic there.

4800 feet.

The sun in low in the sky all winter. We only get
a ton of UV light in the summer when the sun is high.
I sun burn in about 20 minutes. In the Winter,
no sun burn issues. And my garlic went yellow
in May at the first hot days. Not a lot of UV in
May.

>
> other than decent quality soil and enough moisture garlic
> is a crop i like to grow because nothing eats it and i can
> put it in a garden outside the fence.

I watered about four times in the winter. My berry
plants will die if I do not.

Our winter was a dry one this year.

> i know you have a problem with soils because of your
> location but by now you should have some sort of topsoil
> built up if you've been composting and scrounging organic
> materials.

YOU WOULD THINK !!

> you can probably get by with 1/2 cubic foot per bulb if
> you use the valuable good soil down deeper (below where
> you'd plant the bulb) and then top it off with your poorer
> quality and sandier soil. pH probably should be 6.0 - 7.0.
>
> bulbs should normally be planted about three times the
> size of the bulb deep,

I did.

> you can go a little deeper if you're
> subject to animals digging or harsher climates but i only
> plant garlic deeper here if i'm after green garlic for
> earlier harvest as that makes for more white blanched stem.
>
>
> songbird

And every think came out perfect, except miniature.

The only thing I did different was cut back on the
constant fertilizing as we are in a deep recession
since 2021 and business is really bad and I can't
afford s***.

I really want to test my soil, but can't afford
that either.

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<ah7uni-4p4.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 08:09:46 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Fri, 17 Jun 2022 12:09 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
> will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
> and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.

that's progress! :)

> the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
> froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
> receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
> roots a chance to develop.
>
> the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
> and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
> would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
> rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
> planting.
>
> this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
> green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
> haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
> of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
> which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
>
> right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
> kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
> the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
> and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
> garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
>
> am i following the right path here?

don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
roots will not grow upwards that much.

mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
and warm spell during the winter.

keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 08:13:47 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Fri, 17 Jun 2022 12:13 UTC

T wrote:
>> what problem are you trying to address?
....
> And green beans the size of tooth picks.
>
> A single bell pepper the size of a peanut.
>
> Two cucumbers per plant

hmm, out of time for this morning will get back to
reading through this and replying later today.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<88muni-622.ln1@anthive.com>

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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 12:20:56 -0400
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 by: songbird - Fri, 17 Jun 2022 16:20 UTC

T wrote:
> On 6/16/22 04:40, songbird wrote:
>> T wrote:
>> ...
>>> Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
>>> except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
>>> the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
>>> yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
>>> Perfect, except everything in miniature.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX

did you take the picture down? i can't see it any
longer.


>> when was that harvested?
>
> These are them:
> https://www.burpee.com/garlic-spanish-roja-prod001489.html

note that the garlic says it is grown in the NW of
Oregon which is not going to be at all similar to your
climate and soils. it may not be adapted or even
adaptable to someplace that different. i'm not sure.


> Late May after the tops all went yellow and fell off
>
>> when was it planted
>
> In early October. First frost was late October

is what you harvested is bigger than what you planted?

>> and how was it treated?
>
> With love and care!
>
> Dumped a bag of fertilizer on them before watering them in.
> Burpee organic for tomatoes. 5 lb.

dumping fertilizer on top without mixing it in the soil isn't
really all that great a method of planting.

considering your soil is generally alkaline i'd have used
fertilizer for acid loving plants. the issue with fertilizers
for bulb crops is going to be that you want one which is not
as high in N.

you can make a pH indicator out of red cabbage. check
youtube how to do this.

> They came up in about a week.
>
>
>>were the starts small to begin with?
>
> Yes. They grew to about six to seven inches and stopped.
> Stayed beautifully green all winter.

they will stay green under the snow here as long as they
don't super freeze or really dry out.

what i meant though was how big were the cloves you planted?
what size? in cm or mm or inches.

> My green onions got to about 2 feet tall over winter

that's good. mine did about that.

>> every year to replant i pick only the largest cloves from
>> a bulb to replant. it will take three years to go from tiny
>> starts to larger bulb sizes.
>>
>> what is your elevation? i'm wondering if the sun is just
>> to harsh for garlic there.
>
> 4800 feet.
>
> The sun in low in the sky all winter. We only get
> a ton of UV light in the summer when the sun is high.
> I sun burn in about 20 minutes. In the Winter,
> no sun burn issues. And my garlic went yellow
> in May at the first hot days. Not a lot of UV in
> May.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> other than decent quality soil and enough moisture garlic
>> is a crop i like to grow because nothing eats it and i can
>> put it in a garden outside the fence.
>
> I watered about four times in the winter. My berry
> plants will die if I do not.
>
> Our winter was a dry one this year.

i would guess that is the biggest factor if everything
else was ok.

an extended dry period would signal the plant to finish
and go dormant earlier than otherwise. i still have a hardneck
garlic growing here and it's putting on scapes. did you see any
scapes at all?

you need to water about an inch of moisture a week if your
soil is average. if you have drying winds and full sun you
might need to water more than that. mulch would help once
the plants are up and growing.

>> i know you have a problem with soils because of your
>> location but by now you should have some sort of topsoil
>> built up if you've been composting and scrounging organic
>> materials.
>
> YOU WOULD THINK !!
>
>> you can probably get by with 1/2 cubic foot per bulb if
>> you use the valuable good soil down deeper (below where
>> you'd plant the bulb) and then top it off with your poorer
>> quality and sandier soil. pH probably should be 6.0 - 7.0.
>>
>> bulbs should normally be planted about three times the
>> size of the bulb deep,
>
> I did.
>
>> you can go a little deeper if you're
>> subject to animals digging or harsher climates but i only
>> plant garlic deeper here if i'm after green garlic for
>> earlier harvest as that makes for more white blanched stem.
>>
>>
>> songbird
>
> And every think came out perfect, except miniature.
>
> The only thing I did different was cut back on the
> constant fertilizing as we are in a deep recession
> since 2021 and business is really bad and I can't
> afford s***.
>
> I really want to test my soil, but can't afford
> that either.

if your green onions did ok i'd guess it was more
likely an issue of variety not being adapted to your
conditions than anything else. bulb plants will react
to hot and dry by going dormant - that's what they do.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntapma3.qvm.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Fri, 17 Jun 2022 19:42 UTC

On 2022-06-17, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
>> will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
>> and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.

> that's progress! :)

i hope so. after eating home grown garlic store bought garlic doesn't
taste like anything. am growing romanian red.

>> the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
>> froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
>> receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
>> roots a chance to develop.

>> the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
>> and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
>> would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
>> rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
>> planting.

>> this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
>> green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
>> haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
>> of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
>> which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.

>> right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
>> kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
>> the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
>> and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
>> garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.

>> am i following the right path here?

> don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
> soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
> use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
> roots will not grow upwards that much.

> mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
> the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
> all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
> and warm spell during the winter.

this i need to keep a closer eye on in the winter. i never considered
it.

> keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.

our winters (western ny) are about 5 months long. does testing and
amending nutrients before planting in fall and again at the beginning
of spring growing season sound like too much? organic material is
amended before planting.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 14:55:34 -0700
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 by: T - Fri, 17 Jun 2022 21:55 UTC

On 6/17/22 09:20, songbird wrote:

>>>> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
>
> did you take the picture down? i can't see it any
> longer.

I an still see it. Hmmmmmm ....

> note that the garlic says it is grown in the NW of
> Oregon which is not going to be at all similar to your
> climate and soils. it may not be adapted or even
> adaptable to someplace that different. i'm not sure.

Zone 6B. And 10 miles away, the farmers grow garlic
like crazy

>> In early October. First frost was late October
>
> is what you harvested is bigger than what you planted?

What I planted was normal sized. I planted the
largest cloves.

> dumping fertilizer on top without mixing it in the soil isn't
> really all that great a method of planting.

I do both. Depends if a plant is already growing there.
I turned the soil over after dumping a 4 lb bag on
the trough before planting the fingers

>
> considering your soil is generally alkaline i'd have used
> fertilizer for acid loving plants. the issue with fertilizers
> for bulb crops is going to be that you want one which is not
> as high in N.

4-4-6 organic.

>
> you can make a pH indicator out of red cabbage. check
> youtube how to do this.

Interesting. Will have to find some red cabbage. Will
meet my budget too!

> what i meant though was how big were the cloves you planted?
> what size? in cm or mm or inches.

I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
1-1/2 inch long

>> Our winter was a dry one this year.
>
> i would guess that is the biggest factor if everything
> else was ok.
>
> an extended dry period would signal the plant to finish
> and go dormant earlier than otherwise. i still have a hardneck
> garlic growing here and it's putting on scapes. did you see any
> scapes at all?

None, but I am not sure this was hard neck.

>
> you need to water about an inch of moisture a week if your
> soil is average. if you have drying winds and full sun you
> might need to water more than that. mulch would help once
> the plants are up and growing.

Okay.

I water between the raids and snows. Probably did
not do enough.

>
> if your green onions did ok i'd guess it was more
> likely an issue of variety not being adapted to your
> conditions than anything else. bulb plants will react
> to hot and dry by going dormant - that's what they do.

Not a single onion seed came up.

>
>
> songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<1dc3oi-cu1.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 07:03:29 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 19 Jun 2022 11:03 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2022-06-17, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> ...
>>> i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
>>> will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
>>> and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.
>
>> that's progress! :)
>
> i hope so. after eating home grown garlic store bought garlic doesn't
> taste like anything. am growing romanian red.

for sure! their is quite a bit of difference in flavors between
varieties. :) i've been growing the same variety for almost 20yrs
now. i no longer grow any other kinds.

>>> the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
>>> froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
>>> receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
>>> roots a chance to develop.
>
>>> the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
>>> and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
>>> would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
>>> rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
>>> planting.
>
>>> this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
>>> green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
>>> haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
>>> of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
>>> which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
>
>>> right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
>>> kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
>>> the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
>>> and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
>>> garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
>
>>> am i following the right path here?
>
>> don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
>> soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
>> use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
>> roots will not grow upwards that much.
>
>> mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
>> the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
>> all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
>> and warm spell during the winter.
>
> this i need to keep a closer eye on in the winter. i never considered
> it.
>
>> keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.
>
> our winters (western ny) are about 5 months long. does testing and
> amending nutrients before planting in fall and again at the beginning
> of spring growing season sound like too much? organic material is
> amended before planting.

no, it sounds ok, if your garden soil is generally good and
you get a decent tomato crop or onion crop then your garlic is
probably also getting enough nutrients. i was just pointing
out that adding fertilizers in the off-season when a plant is
mostly dormant is pointless and a waste of a valuable
resource (and also possibly polluting).

i'm in mid-Michigan we probably have very similar climates.
my garlic is just now putting on scapes. i don't remove them
because they're often as big as the cloves and if people want
seed garlic it is a good extra source if i run out of cloves.
if nobody does want them they end up as extra worm food -
worms love garlic and onion bits.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<uvb3oi-cu1.ln1@anthive.com>

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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 06:56:30 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 19 Jun 2022 10:56 UTC

T wrote:
> On 6/17/22 09:20, songbird wrote:
>
>>>>> https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
>>
>> did you take the picture down? i can't see it any
>> longer.
>
> I an still see it. Hmmmmmm ....

yeah, i could get it and look at it if i downloaded it, but
it wasn't showing on my screen any longer like i expected when
i clicked on the link. perhaps a security setting in my browser
that i'm too busy to look into at the moment. :)

>> note that the garlic says it is grown in the NW of
>> Oregon which is not going to be at all similar to your
>> climate and soils. it may not be adapted or even
>> adaptable to someplace that different. i'm not sure.
>
> Zone 6B. And 10 miles away, the farmers grow garlic
> like crazy

you are 10 miles away from the NW of Oregon?

>>> In early October. First frost was late October
>>
>> is what you harvested is bigger than what you planted?
>
> What I planted was normal sized. I planted the
> largest cloves.

how large were they? that's the most important point, but
i see you answered that below. :)

>> dumping fertilizer on top without mixing it in the soil isn't
>> really all that great a method of planting.
>
> I do both. Depends if a plant is already growing there.
> I turned the soil over after dumping a 4 lb bag on
> the trough before planting the fingers

cloves.

>> considering your soil is generally alkaline i'd have used
>> fertilizer for acid loving plants. the issue with fertilizers
>> for bulb crops is going to be that you want one which is not
>> as high in N.
>
> 4-4-6 organic.

ok.

>> you can make a pH indicator out of red cabbage. check
>> youtube how to do this.
>
> Interesting. Will have to find some red cabbage. Will
> meet my budget too!

i also can extract the same indicator from the dry Purple
Dove beans i grow, but you have to do it quickly because
if you let the water go too long it will get cloudy.

>> what i meant though was how big were the cloves you planted?
>> what size? in cm or mm or inches.
>
> I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
> 1-1/2 inch long

mass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
long and plump.

remember this with bulbs, the energy used to start the next
season's growth is contained in that clove you planted. the
most energy used will give you a bigger plant which can then
capture more sunlight through the leaves. no matter what
other conditions you have if you start with a smaller clove
then the results will be smaller holding all other variables
the same within one important limitation which is the nature
of the variety of garlic that you're growing. some varieties
will only get so big once you've reached their limit.

>>> Our winter was a dry one this year.
>>
>> i would guess that is the biggest factor if everything
>> else was ok.
>>
>> an extended dry period would signal the plant to finish
>> and go dormant earlier than otherwise. i still have a hardneck
>> garlic growing here and it's putting on scapes. did you see any
>> scapes at all?
>
> None, but I am not sure this was hard neck.

that's what the description says in the link you provided to
the burpee website for this garlic.

from what i can tell in the picture it looks like the bulbs
were properly formed. you can improve the quality of the
tunic (covering of the bulb) by lifting the garlic when about
half of the stalks have turned yellow or died back. then let
it cure in a dark dry location with good air flow. turn the
bulbs every day or so if they're sitting on a hard surface so
they dry completely on the outside.

>> you need to water about an inch of moisture a week if your
>> soil is average. if you have drying winds and full sun you
>> might need to water more than that. mulch would help once
>> the plants are up and growing.
>
> Okay.
>
> I water between the raids and snows. Probably did
> not do enough.

also if the soil is sandy and didn't have much clay and
organic material to hold moisture you would also have to
adjust your watering for those differences. the best way
to gauge the water content of the soil if you're uncertain
is to just use a trowel or your hands to dig down a little
to see how dry it is getting. during active growing season
you don't ever want it to get completely dry at the root
growing level of the bulbs.

>> if your green onions did ok i'd guess it was more
>> likely an issue of variety not being adapted to your
>> conditions than anything else. bulb plants will react
>> to hot and dry by going dormant - that's what they do.
>
> Not a single onion seed came up.

that's a whole different issue. if you want to talk
about that put it in another thread...

i'm about to get going for the day so i won't likely
see it until later. i have a large garden to finish
prepping and then get planted today.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8nh5v$jd6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 08:59:58 -0700
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 by: T - Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:59 UTC

On 6/19/22 03:56, songbird wrote:
>> I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
>> 1-1/2 inch long
> mass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
> long and plump.

They were really fat too.

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 17:39:07 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 19 Jun 2022 21:39 UTC

T wrote:
> On 6/19/22 03:56, songbird wrote:
>>> I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
>>> 1-1/2 inch long
>> mass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
>> long and plump.
>
> They were really fat too.

so they did gain, i'm guessing you just needed some more
water on them at a regular basis. you don't want those roots
to ever go dry until they're almost ready to harvest. onions
are similar, they don't like any dry spells at all until they're
almost done.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<t8om05$8uc$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: T - Mon, 20 Jun 2022 02:28 UTC

On 6/19/22 14:39, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
>> On 6/19/22 03:56, songbird wrote:
>>>> I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
>>>> 1-1/2 inch long
>>> mass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
>>> long and plump.
>>
>> They were really fat too.
>
> so they did gain, i'm guessing you just needed some more
> water on them at a regular basis. you don't want those roots
> to ever go dry until they're almost ready to harvest. onions
> are similar, they don't like any dry spells at all until they're
> almost done.
>
>
> songbird

Maybe I should water them every week during the
winter, except when it rains or snows?

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