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interests / rec.gardens.edible / Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

SubjectAuthor
* What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
+* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|+- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
| `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|     `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|      `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|       `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        | +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        | |`- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |   +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |   |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |   | `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |    |`- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |   +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |   |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |   | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |    |   |  `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    |    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        |    |     `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?Bob F
|        |     `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?fos
|        +* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        | `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |  `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        |   `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |    `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        |     `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        |      `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|        |       `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
|        `* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
|         `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
`* Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T
 +- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?songbird
 `- Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?T

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Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<uc66oi-u97.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:39:26 -0400
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 by: songbird - Mon, 20 Jun 2022 12:39 UTC

T wrote:
....
> Maybe I should water them every week during the
> winter, except when it rains or snows?

generally keep an eye on things once a week and water them
when needed.

too much water might be bad too if you end up having standing
water or puddles. you don't want that either.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tadtdm$1ao9l$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 00:00:04 -0700
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 by: T - Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:00 UTC

On 6/13/22 03:45, T wrote:
> and keep it organic.

Burn California is back. Every summer California's
atrocious forestry practices results in our skies
darkening with smoke and ash.

Now I mention this because the last two days of smoke
made me remember that my garden LOVES California's ash.

So, potassium deficient soil?

Your thoughts?

-T

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<lkf5qi-a73.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:43:33 -0400
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 by: songbird - Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:43 UTC

T wrote:
> On 6/13/22 03:45, T wrote:
>> and keep it organic.
>
>
> Burn California is back. Every summer California's
> atrocious forestry practices results in our skies
> darkening with smoke and ash.
>
> Now I mention this because the last two days of smoke
> made me remember that my garden LOVES California's ash.
>
> So, potassium deficient soil?
>
> Your thoughts?

i just amend with worm castings and worms when i'm
planting the most heavy feeding crops that i grow. it
is a limited use and not broadcast so nothing is wasted.
for a few years after amending that area can be rotation
planted with other crops which are not as heavy feeders so
i can get two or three plantings/crops without having to
amend again. subsequent low till digging finds that the
amendments do not degenerate much through time so that
those areas remain in much better garden soil quality for
further exploitation by plants in those spots or nearby.

this leaves little pockets of organic materials that
the worms and fungi can use also leading to even more
benefit to the garden plants.

avoiding extra nutrient leeching away is the primary
concern with all fertilizer uses. anything you can do
which keeps nutrients and organic material from degrading
is important. this is also why adding some clay to deficient
garden soils that do not have enough is a good recommendation
as that also helps with nutrient and water retention.

each year i use about 100-200lbs of home generated
worms and worm castings for the gardens. this is generated
from food scraps and any other organic materials i can
scrounge up to put in the buckets. a lot of it is mostly
or partially decayed wood chips. the worms then add their
contributions as they help turn the food scraps into
fertilizer. one of the components of food scraps is
banana peels which have potassium. other foods scraps
will also have some potassium. nothing being wasted that
is paid for is important and using those fertilizer
resources as pointedly as possible also is the best use of
those. instead of spreading a more general chemical
fertilizer and having a lot of it running off or wasted
the worm castings/worms are buried only where the plants
are put in. no runoff is leeching any of that away.

the other important part of this is knowing how your
gardens are in your water flows and ground water. making
sure that surface flows are either captured and soaked in
or diverted around gardens so that nutrients and organic
materials are not being washed (or blown) away.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tasuls$36217$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 16:53:31 -0700
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 by: T - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 23:53 UTC

Just out of curiousity, Home Depot sell 40 lb
bags of Potassium Chloride over by the water
softener rock salt for 9 U$D.

Would this work? Or kill everything like
Sodium Chloride?

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntd5ar9.582.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Sat, 16 Jul 2022 12:13 UTC

On 2022-06-17, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
>> will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
>> and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.

> that's progress! :)

>> the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
>> froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
>> receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
>> roots a chance to develop.

>> the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
>> and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
>> would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
>> rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
>> planting.

>> this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
>> green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
>> haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
>> of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
>> which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.

>> right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
>> kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
>> the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
>> and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
>> garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.

>> am i following the right path here?

> don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
> soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
> use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
> roots will not grow upwards that much.

> mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
> the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
> all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
> and warm spell during the winter.

> keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.

i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
harvest is that size.

i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?

watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
maintaining moist soil.

last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
more compost, too.

thanks for the insight. excelsior.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<do5cqi-2vg.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 21:37:49 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 01:37 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....

where abouts are you located?

> i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
> this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
> size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
> largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
> harvest is that size.

a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your
starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from
a new source or is this from replanting what you've always
been growing?

> i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
> used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
> pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
> lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
> that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
> different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
> clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
> included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
> of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
> should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?

since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
what is going on.

> watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
> in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
> alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
> maintaining moist soil.

it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
given us a bit of rain.

> last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
> lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
> year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
> determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
> more compost, too.

if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
work out.

generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
nutrients.

rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.

> thanks for the insight. excelsior.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tb03da$3kc0r$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 21:33:08 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:33 UTC

On 7/16/2022 6:37 PM, songbird wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>
> where abouts are you located?
>
>
>> i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
>> this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
>> size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
>> largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
>> harvest is that size.
>
> a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your
> starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from
> a new source or is this from replanting what you've always
> been growing?
>
>
>> i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
>> used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
>> pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
>> lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
>> that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
>> different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
>> clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
>> included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
>> of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
>> should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?
>
> since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
> say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
> that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
> your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
> itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
> what is going on.
>
>
>> watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
>> in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
>> alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
>> maintaining moist soil.
>
> it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
> you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
> at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
> get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
> few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
> i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
> given us a bit of rain.
>
>
>> last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
>> lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
>> year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
>> determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
>> more compost, too.
>
> if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
> was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
> the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
> work out.
>
> generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
> amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
> i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
> to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
> would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
> have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
> nutrients.
>
> rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.

I got the results of my first soil test last week. It was low on
Nitrogen, potassium, and sulfur, and at the top of the scale at 15%
organic matter. They say 5% is as high as you need. I guess I've been
overdoing the compost. Also very high on phosphate, which may be due to
the compost too. I also needed lime to raise the ph, which was at 6.1.

I am glad I did the test. We get 5 free tests (for life) from the
conservation district. After that, it is currently $25.

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<2r9dqi-7a3.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:53:38 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:53 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....
> I got the results of my first soil test last week. It was low on
> Nitrogen, potassium, and sulfur, and at the top of the scale at 15%
> organic matter. They say 5% is as high as you need. I guess I've been
> overdoing the compost. Also very high on phosphate, which may be due to
> the compost too. I also needed lime to raise the ph, which was at 6.1.

what is your soil structure like? sandy? loam? clay content?
that should have also been a part of a soil test.

will you be changing your garden beds to reduce the organic
matter level or stop adding compost for a few seasons and then
retest?

around here i would be moving garden soil around because i
have so many gardens that can use an organic matter boost and i
have so little of it to spare. at the end of each garden season
i bury almost all garden debris and that does help but it is
never enough. i call it low-till gardening because i'm rarely
digging more than 5%-10% of a garden for the entire season.

> I am glad I did the test. We get 5 free tests (for life) from the
> conservation district. After that, it is currently $25.

that's nice, i've never done anything other than eyeball things
here and i am curious about what the pH is in a few gardens, but i
never get around to testing it because for the most part the
gardens are doing ok with what i'm amending.

our well water does contain some calcium and iron and i've had
to water a lot this year so i know that is going to change the
pH a little, but the rains are slightly acidic so when we get
more rains i hope it balances out.

the actual fertilizer amendment i use for spot feeding does
have eggshells in there along with whatever else the food scraps
bring for trace nutrients, i'm not too worried about them. i
use the results of my heaviest feeding plants (the tomatoes) to
guage how good it is and they are 4ft tall already and have nice
green leaves.

time to get back out there and get a few things done before
it gets too hot again.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tb1478$3ok9a$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 06:53:07 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob F - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:53 UTC

On 7/17/2022 4:53 AM, songbird wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
> ...
>> I got the results of my first soil test last week. It was low on
>> Nitrogen, potassium, and sulfur, and at the top of the scale at 15%
>> organic matter. They say 5% is as high as you need. I guess I've been
>> overdoing the compost. Also very high on phosphate, which may be due to
>> the compost too. I also needed lime to raise the ph, which was at 6.1.
>
> what is your soil structure like? sandy? loam? clay content?
> that should have also been a part of a soil test.

A foot of soil of beautiful dark soil over many feet of very fine sand.
The sample included mixed soil from the 3 beds which total about 1600
sq. ft.

>
> will you be changing your garden beds to reduce the organic
> matter level or stop adding compost for a few seasons and then
> retest?

I will just stop applying. I will need to adjust my serious composting
habits, maybe. At one point, I was taking the leaves in the compost bins
from many neighbors to add to it.

>
> around here i would be moving garden soil around because i
> have so many gardens that can use an organic matter boost and i
> have so little of it to spare. at the end of each garden season
> i bury almost all garden debris and that does help but it is
> never enough. i call it low-till gardening because i'm rarely
> digging more than 5%-10% of a garden for the entire season.
>
>
>> I am glad I did the test. We get 5 free tests (for life) from the
>> conservation district. After that, it is currently $25.
>
> that's nice, i've never done anything other than eyeball things
> here and i am curious about what the pH is in a few gardens, but i
> never get around to testing it because for the most part the
> gardens are doing ok with what i'm amending.

Check with your "county conservation district" if you can and see what
they offer. Some places seem to offer free tests as needed, according to
other posters here.

I have a ph tester I picked up at a yard sale that gave similar
indications to what the test showed. It has 2 prongs you stick into the
soil and just wait a minute or 3.

>
> our well water does contain some calcium and iron and i've had
> to water a lot this year so i know that is going to change the
> pH a little, but the rains are slightly acidic so when we get
> more rains i hope it balances out.
>
> the actual fertilizer amendment i use for spot feeding does
> have eggshells in there along with whatever else the food scraps
> bring for trace nutrients, i'm not too worried about them. i
> use the results of my heaviest feeding plants (the tomatoes) to
> guage how good it is and they are 4ft tall already and have nice
> green leaves.
>
> time to get back out there and get a few things done before
> it gets too hot again.
>
>
> songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntd95ob.qr.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 23:11 UTC

On 2022-07-17, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...

> where abouts are you located?

western new york. zone 6.

>> i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
>> this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
>> size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
>> largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
>> harvest is that size.

> a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your
> starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from
> a new source or is this from replanting what you've always
> been growing?

two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.

>> i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
>> used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
>> pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
>> lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
>> that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
>> different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
>> clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
>> included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
>> of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
>> should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?

> since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
> say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
> that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
> your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
> itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
> what is going on.

thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
me think.

i have no idea how much organic material is in the soil and i now see
it's extremely relevant. there are some soil guides provided with the
LaMotte testing kit i purchased sitting on my nightstand, obviously
unfortunatly unread.

today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
thanks.

>> watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
>> in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
>> alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
>> maintaining moist soil.

> it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
> you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
> at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
> get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
> few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
> i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
> given us a bit of rain.

here in WNY fall is usually wet and there's plenty of snow cover. but how
much moisture is there is when the weather is cool never crossed my
mind. i see is something i must pay attention to.

>> last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
>> lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
>> year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
>> determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
>> more compost, too.

> if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
> was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
> the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
> work out.

> generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
> amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
> i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
> to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
> would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
> have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
> nutrients.

> rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.

>> thanks for the insight. excelsior.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 21:45:57 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Mon, 18 Jul 2022 04:45 UTC

On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:

>
> two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
> unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
> year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.

Check this out for more choices.

https://filareefarm.com/

I grew 4 varieties from them for several years. I just saved a couple of
the largest bulbs each year for the next year.

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:21:59 -0400
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 by: songbird - Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:21 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
> songbird wrote:

....
> two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
> unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
> year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.

well, as it goes each year if you are planting garlic from
another grower you are defeating the benefits of acclimation.

also any time you bring in any plant in any form from another
location you are risking introducing diseases and pests.

there is a good chance that some of your largest cloves
will be larger than most or all of your seed garlic you are
planting. that is a major factor in having a larger bulb
the next season. try a few of your largest cloves this fall
and see how they do.

....
>> since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
>> say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
>> that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
>> your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
>> itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
>> what is going on.
>
> thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
> me think.

that's the intent. :)

> i have no idea how much organic material is in the soil and i now see
> it's extremely relevant. there are some soil guides provided with the
> LaMotte testing kit i purchased sitting on my nightstand, obviously
> unfortunatly unread.
>
> today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
> of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
> thanks.

you're welcome.

>>> watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
>>> in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
>>> alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
>>> maintaining moist soil.
>
>> it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
>> you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
>> at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
>> get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
>> few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
>> i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
>> given us a bit of rain.
>
> here in WNY fall is usually wet and there's plenty of snow cover. but how
> much moisture is there is when the weather is cool never crossed my
> mind. i see is something i must pay attention to.

yes, winter soil if there hasn't been enough snow can dry out
too much. if you get a temporary thaw and a dry enough spell to
affect the roots then that can make a difference in size. mulching
through the winter can help even out soil moisture and protect
from drying out completely, but as far as growing for the next
spring you want to pull it off if it is down heavy as then the
soil will warm up faster and the garlic will be able to grow
easier not having to push up through all the mulch. i've not
mulched the garlic i grow here. it's a hard-neck garlic that
would grow even if i left it sitting out on the surface of the
garden soil. i have about the same climate as you (or perhaps
even a bit colder).

>>> last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
>>> lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
>>> year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
>>> determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
>>> more compost, too.
>
>> if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
>> was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
>> the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
>> work out.
>
>> generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
>> amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
>> i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
>> to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
>> would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
>> have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
>> nutrients.
>
>> rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.
>
>>> thanks for the insight. excelsior.

y.w. :) keep on learning. :)

based upon the bulb i pulled last week i may have another
week or even two yet before harvesting the garlic here. this
is later than normal. i'll pull another bulb this coming
weekend and see how it looks. don't want to wait too long
but also don't want to pull it too early.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tb3sfr$dhau$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:59:34 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob F - Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:59 UTC

On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:

>
> today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
> of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
> thanks.
>

For my test, drying was specifically to be avoided. They wanted it
mailed ASAP after digging them, and even suggested mailing early in the
week to avoid weekend delays in the shipping process.

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntdgf2m.9q5.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:33 UTC

On 2022-07-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:

>> thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
>> me think.

> that's the intent. :)

braining is always good. :)

> y.w. :) keep on learning. :)

am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to
look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.

based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed
garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still
be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like
garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of
bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make
that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not
purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests.
will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will
be sending it out early next week. will post results here.

excelsior.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntdgf5n.9q5.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:34 UTC

On 2022-07-18, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:

>> two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
>> unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
>> year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.

> Check this out for more choices.

> https://filareefarm.com/

> I grew 4 varieties from them for several years. I just saved a couple of
> the largest bulbs each year for the next year.

bookmarked. thanks.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntdgffq.9q5.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:40 UTC

On 2022-07-18, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:

>> today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
>> of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
>> thanks.

> For my test, drying was specifically to be avoided. They wanted it
> mailed ASAP after digging them, and even suggested mailing early in the
> week to avoid weekend delays in the shipping process.

the Cornell Extension referred me to a local agronomy service. they're
supplying the shipping containers and sampling instructions which will
followed precisely. the samples i pulled the other day are already back
in the garden. mistakes were made taking them. lol

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<aaonqi-0l6.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 07:02:02 -0400
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 by: songbird - Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:02 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2022-07-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>
>>> thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
>>> me think.
>
>> that's the intent. :)
>
> braining is always good. :)
>
>> y.w. :) keep on learning. :)
>
> am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to
> look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.
>
> based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed
> garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still
> be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like
> garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of
> bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make
> that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not
> purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests.
> will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will
> be sending it out early next week. will post results here.

all good to hear, i really hope this helps and you are happy
with the results. :)

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntdl7b4.g2h.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Fri, 22 Jul 2022 12:51 UTC

On 2022-07-21, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> On 2022-07-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>>> fos@sdf.org wrote:

>>>> thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
>>>> me think.

>>> that's the intent. :)

>> braining is always good. :)

>>> y.w. :) keep on learning. :)

>> am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to
>> look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.

>> based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed
>> garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still
>> be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like
>> garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of
>> bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make
>> that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not
>> purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests.
>> will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will
>> be sending it out early next week. will post results here.

> all good to hear, i really hope this helps and you are happy
> with the results. :)

i'm enjoying the learning experience. it's rewarding and relaxing. well
relaxing most of the time. i'm learning about flowers too. i had a
beautiful 4 foot square patch of poppies (opium variety) growing from
seed and as soon as they started blooming they got slaughtered and eaten
by a woodchuck. that's the opposite of relaxing. the vegetable garden is
fenced to keep the deer, woodchucks, and rabbits out. the woodchuck did
find a weak spot where i clipped the chicken wire on the bottom with a
weed whacker though, caught the bastard red handed mowing down my
carrots lol. at least i think they're carrots. i pulled one up yesterday
that bolted and it was more like a crooked pencil than a carrot.

i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.

https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis

"A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that
measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological
processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860)
Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental
service."

https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis/packages/

"(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter,
Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum,
iron, zinc, and manganese."

question is: overkill or not?

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrntdllhi.8pq.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Fri, 22 Jul 2022 16:54 UTC

On 2022-07-22, fos@sdf.org <fos@sdf.org> wrote:

> caught the bastard red handed mowing down my carrots lol.

i chased that marauder around for 20 minutes, phone in hand to take
photos of course. it ran past the gate at least 10 times before it
figured out that was its only escape route. fun times gardening.

<https://wm.sdf.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1030&pid=22631#top_display_media>

<https://wm.sdf.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1030&pid=22632#top_display_media>

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<8g5tqi-7t4.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:17:44 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:17 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.
>
> https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis
>
> "A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that
> measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological
> processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860)
> Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental
> service."
>
> https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis/packages/
>
> "(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter,
> Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum,
> iron, zinc, and manganese."
>
>
> question is: overkill or not?

i'm not familiar with soil testing terminology so sorry i
can't say much other than if it isn't expensive and you have
issues then it may be worth it.

so far my issues are more critter related than soil/nutrient
ones so i don't do much soil testing. i think from how much i
have to water this year that my pH will be higher.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<k55tqi-7t4.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:12:04 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:12 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i chased that marauder around for 20 minutes, phone in hand to take
> photos of course. it ran past the gate at least 10 times before it
> figured out that was its only escape route. fun times gardening.

i usually have to hunt them here a few times a year. they
constantly are trying to eat anything they can get at. we
don't have the right fence even around the fenced gardens so
they sometimes get in there too, but not as often as they do
the unfenced areas. when/if i ever get the chance i'm fencing
with better stuff to keep them out of most of the yard. only
a few hundred more feet will do it and i will be done with
deer, rabbits and groundhogs. i'm looking forwards to that
because i sure lost a lot of plants this year to deer in a
large garden. it bites to do all the work of planting,
watering and weeding and then have it all get destroyed.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<tbh088$3ttmj$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 07:23:30 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob F - Sat, 23 Jul 2022 14:23 UTC

On 7/23/2022 5:12 AM, songbird wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i chased that marauder around for 20 minutes, phone in hand to take
>> photos of course. it ran past the gate at least 10 times before it
>> figured out that was its only escape route. fun times gardening.
>
> i usually have to hunt them here a few times a year. they
> constantly are trying to eat anything they can get at. we
> don't have the right fence even around the fenced gardens so
> they sometimes get in there too, but not as often as they do
> the unfenced areas. when/if i ever get the chance i'm fencing
> with better stuff to keep them out of most of the yard. only
> a few hundred more feet will do it and i will be done with
> deer, rabbits and groundhogs. i'm looking forwards to that
> because i sure lost a lot of plants this year to deer in a
> large garden. it bites to do all the work of planting,
> watering and weeding and then have it all get destroyed.

How high is your fence? My father ended up with a 10 foot fence around
his rural garden. He told me that at a shorter level (8'?) that he
watched a deer standing outside the fence hop over it in one motion.

https://worlddeer.org/how-high-can-a-deer-jump/

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<6setqi-du8.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 10:57:42 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sat, 23 Jul 2022 14:57 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....
> How high is your fence? My father ended up with a 10 foot fence around
> his rural garden. He told me that at a shorter level (8'?) that he
> watched a deer standing outside the fence hop over it in one motion.
>
> https://worlddeer.org/how-high-can-a-deer-jump/

we've never had any deer jump over the 6-8ft fences here.
there's a lot of obstacles and things in the way so they don't
have clear taking off or landing spots.

songbird

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<slrnte2k9i.2j3.fos@ma.sdf.org>

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From: fos...@sdf.org
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
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 by: fos...@sdf.org - Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:52 UTC

On 2022-07-23, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.

>> https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis

>> "A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that
>> measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological
>> processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860)
>> Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental
>> service."

>> https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis/packages/

>> "(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter,
>> Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum,
>> iron, zinc, and manganese."

>> question is: overkill or not?

> i'm not familiar with soil testing terminology so sorry i
> can't say much other than if it isn't expensive and you have
> issues then it may be worth it.

i picked up their sampling containers yesterday and have the sample
drying a bit, is too wet. will mail it tomorrow or friday, not sure
when i'll get results. i'm going to test the sample with the LaMotte
kit (pH, N-P-K) and compare the results also.

> so far my issues are more critter related than soil/nutrient
> ones so i don't do much soil testing. i think from how much i
> have to water this year that my pH will be higher.

everything i have is growing well but i think there's much room for
improvement, hence the soil testing. the only problem i'm having is
a little powdery mildew on cucumbers and zucchini plants. also some on
the passion flower vines. just noticed it and will be treating it with
neem oil.

critters i'm learning to live with. they're extraordinarily brutal this
year due to the drought. everything is dry and brown except for those of
us watering our gardens and it's attracting more critters than usual.

it's making for something interesting though. in my front yard around our
flag pole we planted sunflower seeds. last year the only problem we
had was robins pulling some seedlings out. we kept planting and
prevailed. this year the woodchuck was getting at them. i took the 4
survivors, two seedlings and two 18" tall plants that got mowed down,
and transplanted them in the safety of the fenced veggie garden. the
seedlings are growing fine. the two plants that got mowed down are
mutants now. one is now growing 4 stems with growing buds, and the other
sent a stem up from near the bottom off the side with a growing bud.
will be interesting to see how they finish growing since they're not
normal.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

<k9jari-3n8.ln1@anthive.com>

 copy mid

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: What is the best way to supplement with potassium?
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 10:32:52 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <k9jari-3n8.ln1@anthive.com>
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 by: songbird - Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:32 UTC

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> everything i have is growing well but i think there's much room for
> improvement, hence the soil testing. the only problem i'm having is
> a little powdery mildew on cucumbers and zucchini plants. also some on
> the passion flower vines. just noticed it and will be treating it with
> neem oil.

powdery mildew here is endemic, there's just way too many
other host plants around that i'll never be able to remove
or control so i've learned to live with it. most the times
it doesn't kill my entire harvest in any thing we grow -
it just doesn't look good when it happens.

> critters i'm learning to live with. they're extraordinarily brutal this
> year due to the drought. everything is dry and brown except for those of
> us watering our gardens and it's attracting more critters than usual.

yes, that's been a large part of the problem. every animal
is hungry for some green and we're the supplier. recently
the road commission redid the road out front by spraying tar
and putting down gravel on top of that. the smell and change
may have been enough to get the three family deer (Momma and
two little ones) to stay away now and perhaps to break their
habit of coming by each night for easy goodies. the farm
fields around us are now grown up enough in corn that they
can hide in there all they want.

> it's making for something interesting though. in my front yard around our
> flag pole we planted sunflower seeds. last year the only problem we
> had was robins pulling some seedlings out. we kept planting and
> prevailed. this year the woodchuck was getting at them. i took the 4
> survivors, two seedlings and two 18" tall plants that got mowed down,
> and transplanted them in the safety of the fenced veggie garden. the
> seedlings are growing fine. the two plants that got mowed down are
> mutants now. one is now growing 4 stems with growing buds, and the other
> sent a stem up from near the bottom off the side with a growing bud.
> will be interesting to see how they finish growing since they're not
> normal.

sunflowers grown here rarely make it above 2ft high and
repeatedly get mown down by the deer. more often the
seeds and seedlings are eaten by chipmunks, rabbits, etc.
i don't even try any more to grow them. sometimes if i've
been trapping a random seed might grow and even flower but
it isn't too likely unless they end up inside the fenced
gardens.

songbird

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor