Do we have this in English? -- an article is omitted in a proverb?

( i know this is common in Newspaper Headings.)

______________________

In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
omitted.

Here's the breakdown:

"Demain, il fera le jour" is grammatically correct,
as "jour" is masculine and referring to a specific day (tomorrow).

Common Saying: However, in the common saying "demain il fera
jour," the article "le" is traditionally dropped. This is a common
occurrence in French proverbs and sayings for a few reasons:

-- Flow and Rhythm: Leaving out the article creates a smoother flow
and rhythm to the phrase, making it more memorable and catchy.

-- Universality: Omitting the article makes the saying more
universal. It doesn't specify a particular day, but rather the general
idea that there will be light (jour) after darkness.

So, while "demain il fera le jour" is technically correct, "demain il
fera jour" is the more natural and common way to express the saying.

Wed, 3 Apr 2024 23:51:47 -0700: HenHanna <HenHanna@devnull.tb>
scribeva:
>Do we have this in English? -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>
> ( i know this is common in Newspaper Headings.)
>
>______________________
>
> In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
>omitted.

In Dutch too: het wordt dag, het is dag. Not as a proverb, just as
idiomatic Dutch.

Perhaps a calque from Biblical Hebrew? And there was light?

>Here's the breakdown:
>
> "Demain, il fera le jour" is grammatically correct,

Doesn't sound right to me.

Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
> Wed, 3 Apr 2024 23:51:47 -0700: HenHanna <HenHanna@devnull.tb>
> scribeva:
>> Here's the breakdown:
>>
>> "Demain, il fera le jour" is grammatically correct,
>
> Doesn't sound right to me.

I would say it's outright wrong. _Fera jour_ means it will be daytime,
metaphorically, the situation will improve. No place for any article there.

In article <uulim4$g9n9$1@dont-email.me>,
HenHanna <HenHanna@devnull.tb> wrote:
>
> In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
>omitted.
>
>Here's the breakdown:
>
> "Demain, il fera le jour" is grammatically correct,
> as "jour" is masculine and referring to a specific day (tomorrow).

Yes, but it does not mean what you think. "Demain, il fera le jour" would
mean something like "Tomorrow he (god, maybe?) will create the day", which
is grammatical, but nonsensical outside a science-fiction story. In the
saying, "jour" is not definite, hence no "le".

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

On 05/04/24 02:49, Antonio Marques wrote:
> Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
>> Wed, 3 Apr 2024 23:51:47 -0700: HenHanna <HenHanna@devnull.tb>
>> scribeva:

>>> Here's the breakdown:
>>>
>>> "Demain, il fera le jour" is grammatically correct,
>>
>> Doesn't sound right to me.
>
> I would say it's outright wrong. _Fera jour_ means it will be
> daytime, metaphorically, the situation will improve. No place for any
> article there.

It reminds me of the politician who said, a few years ago, "At the end
of the day the sun will rise".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>
>
> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>
>                     ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>
> ______________________
>
>  In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
> omitted.
>
> (...)

Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.

Articles???

--
guido wugi

wugi wrote:

> Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>>
>>
>> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>>
>>                     ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>>
>> ______________________
>>
>>  In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
>> omitted.
>>
>> (...)

> Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
> It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.

> Articles???

for long time, i've been aware of [Missing article phenomenon in French language]
from example of

Quand j'étais enfant, ....



Quand j'étais enfant, je parlais comme un enfant, je jugeais comme un enfant, je pensais comme un enfant; mais quand je suis devenu homme, j'ai aboli ce qui é ..........

---------------- 1 Corinthiens 13:11 Lorsque j'étais enfant, je parlais ...

Sun, 7 Apr 2024 23:07:40 +0000: HenHanna <HenHanna@dev.null> scribeva:

>wugi wrote:
>
>> Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>>>
>>>
>>> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>>>
>>>                     ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>>  In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is indeed
>>> omitted.
>>>
>>> (...)
>
>> Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
>> It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.
>
>> Articles???
>
>
>
> for

a

> long time, i've been aware of [Missing article phenomenon in

the

> French language]
> from example of
>
> Quand j'étais enfant, ....
>
>Quand j'étais enfant, je parlais comme un enfant, je jugeais comme un enfant, je pensais comme un enfant; mais quand je suis devenu homme, j'ai aboli ce qui é ..........
>
> ---------------- 1 Corinthiens 13:11 Lorsque j'étais enfant, je parlais ...

Its not so much a question of a missing article. It's only missing if
you'd take English as the norm ("When a was a child"; but in Dutch
it's possible with AND without). The real situation is that every
language consists of a large set of habits and customs, that sometimes
follow and sometimes defy logic, but they just are as they as are.
Often the same as in other languages, sometimes not.

You just have to accept that, and the only way to learn this is
exposure, like children learn, so you develop some of that sense of
language that native speakers have, so you just know what sounds right
and what doesn't, in that particular language. Finding rules and
patterns and logic might help to make remembering easier, but
eventually it's all exposure and building up habits.

Op 8/04/2024 om 1:07 schreef HenHanna:
> wugi wrote:
>
>> Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>>>
>>>
>>> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>>>
>>>                      ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>>   In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is
>>> indeed omitted.
>>>
>>> (...)
>
>> Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
>> It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.
>
>> Articles???
>
> for    long time,  i've been  aware of     [Missing article  phenomenon
> in     French language]
>  from     example of
>                Quand j'étais enfant,  ....
>
>
>
> Quand j'étais enfant, je parlais comme un enfant, je jugeais comme un
> enfant, je pensais comme un enfant; mais quand je suis devenu homme,
> j'ai aboli ce qui é ..........
>
>                         ---------------- 1 Corinthiens 13:11 Lorsque
> j'étais enfant, je parlais ...

Je suis instituteur. Il est connu comme acteur. Elle est déguisée en
fée. En tant que professeur. Le job de présentateur.

Nous partons en stage, en vacances, en voyage de noces.
Beaucoup de respect. Un peu de poivre, par manque de sel.
A force de chercher...

Articles! Please!

--
guido wugi

wugi wrote:

> Op 8/04/2024 om 1:07 schreef HenHanna:
>> wugi wrote:
>>
>>> Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>>>>
>>>>                      ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>>>>
>>>> ______________________
>>>>
>>>>   In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is
>>>> indeed omitted.
>>>>
>>>> (...)
>>
>>> Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
>>> It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.
>>
>>> Articles???
>>
>> for    long time,  i've been  aware of     [Missing article  phenomenon
>> in     French language]
>>  from     example of
>>                Quand j'étais enfant,  ....
>>
>>
>>
>> Quand j'étais enfant, je parlais comme un enfant, je jugeais comme un
>> enfant, je pensais comme un enfant; mais quand je suis devenu homme,
>> j'ai aboli ce qui é ..........
>>
>>                         ---------------- 1 Corinthiens 13:11 Lorsque
>> j'étais enfant, je parlais ...

> Je suis instituteur. Il est connu comme acteur. Elle est déguisée en
> fée. En tant que professeur. Le job de présentateur.
>
> Nous partons en stage, en vacances, en voyage de noces.
> Beaucoup de respect. Un peu de poivre, par manque de sel. A force de chercher...
>
> Articles! Please!



Are you saying that in these phrases, you'd want to see articles inserted ?



A Frenchman speaks English with a French-accented-syntax and says:

I love the Salad.

"I'm so tired. I need the nap right now."

"Would you like some of the water?"

"The Coffee is the best way to start my day."

Op 9/04/2024 om 6:53 schreef HenHanna:
> wugi wrote:
>
>> Op 8/04/2024 om 1:07 schreef HenHanna:
>>> wugi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Op 4/04/2024 om 8:51 schreef HenHanna:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we have this in English?  -- an article is omitted in a proverb?
>>>>>
>>>>>                      ( i know this is common in Newspaper  Headings.)
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________
>>>>>
>>>>>   In the common saying "demain il fera jour," the article "le" is
>>>>> indeed omitted.
>>>>>
>>>>> (...)
>>>
>>>> Il fait jour. Il fait nuit. Jour et nuit.
>>>> It's daytime. It's night. Day and night.
>>>
>>>> Articles???
>>>
>>> for    long time,  i've been  aware of     [Missing article
>>> phenomenon in     French language]
>>>   from     example of
>>>                 Quand j'étais enfant,  ....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quand j'étais enfant, je parlais comme un enfant, je jugeais comme un
>>> enfant, je pensais comme un enfant; mais quand je suis devenu homme,
>>> j'ai aboli ce qui é ..........
>>>
>>>                          ---------------- 1 Corinthiens 13:11 Lorsque
>>> j'étais enfant, je parlais ...
>
>> Je suis instituteur. Il est connu comme acteur. Elle est déguisée en
>> fée. En tant que professeur. Le job de présentateur.
>>
>> Nous partons en stage, en vacances, en voyage de noces.
>> Beaucoup de respect. Un peu de poivre, par manque de sel.    A force
>> de chercher...
>>
>> Articles! Please!
>
>      Are you saying that  in these phrases,   you'd want to see
> articles  inserted ?

No, I'm counter-exampling your initial question if (why?) an article is
(can be?) omitted [only?] in a proverb.

--
guido wugi