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interests / soc.genealogy.medieval / oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

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Subject: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry
From: mqs...@gmail.com (M S)
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by: M S - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 08:43 UTC

in the 1900s, Wernitz claims to have aristcratic grandmothers.

a certain princess Alexandra Lvovna Galitzina, from Moscow, is claimed to be the mother of a Stefan Karl Wernitz (birth in Köszeg = Güns, Eisenberg, Hungary's Burgenland).

https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00553598&tree=LEO

a certain morganatically born baroness Yvonne Rennenberg, frm Rhineland, is claimed to be the mother of a Margaretha Gabriella Viktoria Udvar (birth 1909 in pecs (German: Fünfkirchen), s.Hungary).

https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00383402&tree=LEO

Has there been reliable research abut these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

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Subject: Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry
From: mqs...@gmail.com (M S)
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by: M S - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 03:45 UTC

an essay exists:

Stair Sainty, Guy (2002)
"Andreas Wernitz, the real story of his imposture as duke, prince, marquis, count, baron and grandee of Spain".
Essay, chivalricorders

==================
7. a 2022 klo 11.43.34 UTC+3 M S:
> in the 1900s, Wernitz claims to have aristcratic grandmothers.
>
> a certain princess Alexandra Lvovna Galitzina, from Moscow, is claimed to be the mother of a Stefan Karl Wernitz (birth in Köszeg = Güns, Eisenberg, Hungary's Burgenland).
>
> https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00553598&tree=LEO
>
> a certain morganatically born baroness Yvonne Rennenberg, frm Rhineland, is claimed to be the mother of a Margaretha Gabriella Viktoria Udvar (birth 1909 in pecs (German: Fünfkirchen), s.Hungary).
>
> https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00383402&tree=LEO
>
>
> Has there been reliable research abut these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

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Subject: Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry
From: mqs...@gmail.com (M S)
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by: M S - Fri, 10 Jun 2022 05:00 UTC

in the internet, there has been display of an odd genealogy:

1.6 Princesse de Montléart-Sachsen-Kurland m 1832 Karl-Kurt-Maria, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1810-1871
1.6.1. Frédéric-Charles, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1833-1902 &1856 Marie-Madeleine, Baronesse Petróczy de Petrócz 1835-1898
1.6.1.1. Jean-Nepomussene, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1857-1930
1.6.1.1.1. Josef (Pepi), Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1891-1974 &1929 Julia Varga, Edle Varga de Borosjenö 1909-1972
1.6.1.1.2. Maria (Mici), Baronesse von Wernitz 1895-1981
1.6.1.1.3. Eugen (Jenö), Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1899-1939
1.6.1.1.4. Therese (Riza), Baronesse von Wernitz 1902-1986
1.6.1.1.5. Margarethe (Margit), Baronesse von Wernitz 1903-1951 &1929 Aloys Franz Uerményi, Edler Uerményi de Uermény 1899-1972
1.6.1.1.5.1. Franz Johann Uerményi, Edler Uerményi de Uermény 1930-2003 &1955 Rosalie Kovács 1932-
1.6.1.1.5.1.1. Johanna Uerményi, Edle Uerményi de Uermény 1956- &1980 Wilhelm von Rave 1952-
1.6.1.1.5.1.1.1. Klaus von Rave 1983-
1.6.1.1.5.1.1.2. Margarethe von Rave 1985-
1.6.1.1.5.1.1.3. Sebastian von Rave 1988-
1.6.1.1.6. Stephan Karl, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1905-1981 &1937 Margarita zu Salm-Kyrburg, Princesse d'Hornes 1909-1995
1.6.1.1.6.1. Esteban von Wernitz zu Salm-Kyrburg, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1943-2006 &1977 Elisabeth Vergara-Acosta 1947-
1.6.1.1.6.1.1. María Eugenia, Baronesa von Wernitz 1978-
1.6.1.1.6.2. Andreas von Wernitz zu Salm-Kyrburg, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1944- &1973 Elena Maria, Comtesse Teleki de Szék 1949-
1.6.1.1.6.2.1. Andrés Carlos, Barón von Wernitz 1976-
1.6.1.1.6.2.2. Elena Alejandra, Baronesse von Wernitz 1977- &2006 Sebastián Ojeda 1969-
1.6.1.1.6.2.3. Gabriela Patricia, Baronesse von Wernitz 1981-
1.6.1.2. Eduard Karl-Maria, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1860-1919
1.6.1.3. Berta-Marie-Madeleine, Baronesse von Wernitz 1868-1900 &/1900 Albert, Prinz von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg 1869-1931
1.6.1.3.1. Valerie zu Schleswig-Holstein 1900-1953 &1925 Johann Wagner 1896 &1939 Engelbert-Charles, Duc d'Arenberg 1899-1974

seems that this genealogy is based on publications of Andreas Wernitz.
---------------------------------

however, the above genealogy's Hornes titles are in direct conflict with the Andreas Wernitz claim of Yvonne Rennenberg having inherited the Hornes title.

>
> ===================
>
> 7. a 2022 klo 11.43.34 UTC+3 M S:

> >
> > Has there been reliable research about these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

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Subject: Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry
From: saxe.lau...@gmail.com (Steven Benedict)
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by: Steven Benedict - Fri, 18 Nov 2022 21:30 UTC

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 11:45:25 PM UTC-4, M S wrote:
> an essay exists:
> Stair Sainty, Guy (2002)
> "Andreas Wernitz, the real story of his imposture as duke, prince, marquis, count, baron and grandee of Spain".
> Essay, chivalricorders

I understood from a mutual acquaintance that Mr. Sainty scrubbed the excellent essay from the web due to threats of legal action by the fraudster von Wernitz. In the fascinating essay of which I fortunately made a copy, Sainty exposed Wernitz as a Hungarian-born con-man András Petróczy. Wernitz did marry a genuine Hungarian countess, but his own claim to aristocratic forbears is entirely fabricated.

Subject	Author
oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry	M S
Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry	M S
Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry	M S
Re: oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry	Steven Benedict