On Fri, 13 May 2022 12:33:21 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:54:55 -0400 (EDT), justan <me@here.com> wrote:
>
>>gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>>
>>For us who cant read your shorthand, splain please.
>FIFY = Fixed It For You
>
>John implied Fox was the only outlet that elevated Trump to national
>office. The backlash from the stuff those other outlets were spewing
>was more of a force than anything Fox said. Every move Trump made was
>widely reported and there is no such thing as bad publicity in
>politics. If the left really wanted Trump to fail, they should have
>ignored him. Make him pay for his ads, don't give publicity away for
>free.
>

This John said no such thing. I believe your comment should be
directed towards Wayne. Please, for God's sake, don't put his words in
my mouth!

"On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>As bombs began raining down on Ukrainian cities, Donald Trump called into Fox News to blame – you guessed it – Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
>As Russian tanks began pouring over the Ukrainian border, Fox News host Laura Ingraham had the gall to call Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky “pathetic.”
>And if you tune into Tucker Carlson these days, you’ll see a show that might as well have been written and produced by Russian state media. Fox News showcases the chasm between traditional GOP normative behavior and the fringe-right cabal now headed by Donald J. Trump.
>As the commander of military forces in East Africa, I asked the American Forces Network to replace Fox News during meal hours for troops. Why? Because they were harmful to America's outreach overseas. They put our troops in jeopardy and made my job harder. Today, they have accomplices.
>Without Fox News, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.
>Real-time reckoning of lies needs real-time litigation. There is such a thing as gross distortions of fact and purveyors of such must pay a debilitating price. My answer to Fox when I was an admiral in the U.S. Navy? I pulled the plug.
>If I defeat Chuck Grassley and turn Iowa blue this November, I will be the most senior military person ever elected to the United States Senate. And I think it’s about time we had more people in leadership who understand the true costs of war and media manipulation of facts, commonly called disinformation.
>The polls show we can win. The pundits say we must win. And with your help today, we can fight back against McConnell’s Super PAC lies and protect our Democratic majority in the Senate.
>Fox News’ propaganda cannot go unanswered. But it takes significant funding to run a full-scale campaign and take on all of Grassley’s and McConnell’s lies."

On Fri, 13 May 2022 12:34:23 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <me@here.com> wrote:
>
>>gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>
>Sorry John, Wayne wrote that

Got it. No sweat.

On Fri, 13 May 2022 15:28:21 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>> >> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>>
>>===
>>
>>Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him. Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>
>The point was that NBC, CBS and ABC share equally with Fox the rise of
>Trump.
>They thought he had no chance of winning so they hyped Trump up to
>torpedo any serious threat from the GOP to Hillary. The joke was on
>them and how badly they underestimated the frustration in fly over
>land to the Washington status quo.

So true!

On Sat, 14 May 2022 14:24:16 -0700 (PDT), True North
<princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 17:30:13 UTC-3, Bill wrote:
>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> > <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
>> >>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
>> >>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
>> >>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>> >>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ===
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
>> >>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
>> >>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>> >>>
>> >>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
>> >>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
>> >>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
>> >>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
>> >> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
>> >
>> > I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
>> > longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
>> > Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
>> > locals.
>> > I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
>> > options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
>> > assured the hostages would die.
>> > Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
>> > from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
>> > just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
>> >
>> Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
>> a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
>> send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
>> ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
>
>
>SNERK!
>You sure do talk tough for a former air force member who hide stateside during the Viet Nam disaster.

And what, asshole, did you do in any branch of the military? You don't
even know what an order is. I suppose toilet bowls stand at attention
without a command, eh dipshit?

John H <jherring@cox.net> Wrote in message:r
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 14:24:16 -0700 (PDT), True North<princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:>On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 17:30:13 UTC-3, Bill wrote:>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote: >> > On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill >> > <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT), >> >>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >> >>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r >> >>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" >> >>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox >> >>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only >> >>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY >> >>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that >> >>>> >> >>>> === >> >>>> >> >>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him. >> >>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far >> >>>> from the mark.
Re-read the rest of what he said. >> >>> >> >>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of >> >>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the >> >>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first >> >>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the >> >> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over. >> > >> > I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any >> > longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some >> > Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the >> > locals. >> > I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the >> > options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just >> > assured the hostages would die. >> > Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed >> > from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was >> > just the beginning of the problems with that plan. >> >>> Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to b
e >> a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to >> send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the >> ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.>>>SNERK!>You sure do talk tough for a former air force member who hide stateside during the Viet Nam disaster.And what, asshole, did you do in any branch of the military? You don'teven know what an order is. I suppose toilet bowls stand at attentionwithout a command, eh dipshit?

I'd like to know Donnies secret for calling toilet lids to attention.
--

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On Sat, 14 May 2022 23:20:38 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill
><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
>>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
>>>>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
>>>
>>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
>>> locals.
>>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
>>> assured the hostages would die.
>>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
>>>
>>
>>Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
>>a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
>>send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
>>ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
>
>George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years
>of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history
>prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they
>promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we
>were stupid.
>if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no
>Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars
>and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not
>exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the
>Patriot act.
>
>Yeah, we showed them.
>

Bush fucked up. Get over it. Biden's the one fucking up now.

John H <jherring@cox.net> Wrote in message:r
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 23:20:38 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com">>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that>>>>>> >>>>>> ===>>>>>> >>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him. >>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far>>>>>> from the mark. Re-r
ead the rest of what he said.>>>>> >>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.>>> >>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the>>> locals. >>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just>>> assured the hostages would die. >>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.>>> >>>>Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be>>a toothless kitty cat. Bad ch
oice of choppers. Would have been better to>>send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the>>ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.>>George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years>of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history>prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they>promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we>were stupid.>if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no>Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars>and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not>exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the>Patriot act.>>Yeah, we showed them.>Bush fucked up. Get over it. Biden's the one fucking up now.

Lets hope Putin isn't listening to Biden. Lets pray that Biden
doesn't go off script and start WW3.
--
Lets go Brandon....

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On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 14:19:41 UTC-3, John H wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:46:46 -0700 (PDT), True North
> <prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 17:39:01 UTC-3, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> As bombs began raining down on Ukrainian cities, Donald Trump called into Fox News to blame – you guessed it – Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
> >> As Russian tanks began pouring over the Ukrainian border, Fox News host Laura Ingraham had the gall to call Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky “pathetic.”
> >> And if you tune into Tucker Carlson these days, you’ll see a show that might as well have been written and produced by Russian state media. Fox News showcases the chasm between traditional GOP normative behavior and the fringe-right cabal now headed by Donald J. Trump.
> >> As the commander of military forces in East Africa, I asked the American Forces Network to replace Fox News during meal hours for troops. Why? Because they were harmful to America's outreach overseas. They put our troops in jeopardy and made my job harder. Today, they have accomplices.
> >> Without Fox News, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.
> >> Real-time reckoning of lies needs real-time litigation. There is such a thing as gross distortions of fact and purveyors of such must pay a debilitating price. My answer to Fox when I was an admiral in the U.S. Navy? I pulled the plug.
> >> If I defeat Chuck Grassley and turn Iowa blue this November, I will be the most senior military person ever elected to the United States Senate. And I think it’s about time we had more people in leadership who understand the true costs of war and media manipulation of facts, commonly called disinformation.
> >> The polls show we can win. The pundits say we must win. And with your help today, we can fight back against McConnell’s Super PAC lies and protect our Democratic majority in the Senate.
> >> Fox News’ propaganda cannot go unanswered. But it takes significant funding to run a full-scale campaign and take on all of Grassley’s and McConnell’s lies.
> >
> >
> >Trump and all his bootlickers should be tried for treason.
> Another stupidity from Donnie.

Feeling nervous, JohnnyMop?
They're coming to get y'all. Hopefully they'll freeze your bloated military pension while y'all serve your time.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 17:18:08 -0700 (PDT), True North
<princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 16 May 2022 at 14:19:41 UTC-3, John H wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:46:46 -0700 (PDT), True North
>> <prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, 8 May 2022 at 17:39:01 UTC-3, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> As bombs began raining down on Ukrainian cities, Donald Trump called into Fox News to blame – you guessed it – Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
>> >> As Russian tanks began pouring over the Ukrainian border, Fox News host Laura Ingraham had the gall to call Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky “pathetic.”
>> >> And if you tune into Tucker Carlson these days, you’ll see a show that might as well have been written and produced by Russian state media. Fox News showcases the chasm between traditional GOP normative behavior and the fringe-right cabal now headed by Donald J. Trump.
>> >> As the commander of military forces in East Africa, I asked the American Forces Network to replace Fox News during meal hours for troops. Why? Because they were harmful to America's outreach overseas. They put our troops in jeopardy and made my job harder. Today, they have accomplices.
>> >> Without Fox News, Trump would have only ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.
>> >> Real-time reckoning of lies needs real-time litigation. There is such a thing as gross distortions of fact and purveyors of such must pay a debilitating price. My answer to Fox when I was an admiral in the U.S. Navy? I pulled the plug.
>> >> If I defeat Chuck Grassley and turn Iowa blue this November, I will be the most senior military person ever elected to the United States Senate. And I think it’s about time we had more people in leadership who understand the true costs of war and media manipulation of facts, commonly called disinformation.
>> >> The polls show we can win. The pundits say we must win. And with your help today, we can fight back against McConnell’s Super PAC lies and protect our Democratic majority in the Senate.
>> >> Fox News’ propaganda cannot go unanswered. But it takes significant funding to run a full-scale campaign and take on all of Grassley’s and McConnell’s lies.
>> >
>> >
>> >Trump and all his bootlickers should be tried for treason.
>> Another stupidity from Donnie.
>
>
>Feeling nervous, JohnnyMop?

About what, dipshit?

>They're coming to get y'all. Hopefully they'll freeze your bloated military pension while y'all serve your time.

Who's 'they', dipshit?

On Mon, 16 May 2022 14:14:48 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2022 23:20:38 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
>>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
>>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
>>>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
>>>>>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
>>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
>>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
>>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
>>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
>>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
>>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
>>>> locals.
>>>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
>>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
>>>> assured the hostages would die.
>>>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
>>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
>>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
>>>a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
>>>send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
>>>ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
>>
>>George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years
>>of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history
>>prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they
>>promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we
>>were stupid.
>>if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no
>>Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars
>>and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not
>>exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the
>>Patriot act.
>>
>>Yeah, we showed them.
>>
>
>Bush fucked up. Get over it. Biden's the one fucking up now.

No argument from me. We just need to recognize our foreign policy in
the mid east and south Asia has been a cluster fuck since 1991. I
could even go back to 1974 when we put our thumb on the scale of the
Yom Kippur war and created the "energy crisis" that resulted in almost
a decade of stagflation. We are doing it again.

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:10:34 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 16:21:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ><gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 05:27:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> >> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> >>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
> >>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
> >>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
> >>>>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ===
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
> >>>>>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
> >>>>>>>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
> >>>>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
> >>>>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
> >>>>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
> >>>>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
> >>>>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
> >>>>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
> >>>>>> locals.
> >>>>>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
> >>>>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
> >>>>>> assured the hostages would die.
> >>>>>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
> >>>>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
> >>>>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
> >>>>> a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
> >>>>> send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
> >>>>> ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
> >>>>
> >>>> George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years
> >>>> of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history
> >>>> prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they
> >>>> promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we
> >>>> were stupid.
> >>>> if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no
> >>>> Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars
> >>>> and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not
> >>>> exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the
> >>>> Patriot act.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, we showed them.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> But if Carter had not wimped out, we may not have had Kuwait.
> >>
> >> huh?
> >> We were propping Saddam up during his war with Iran (80-88) and along
> >> with France and the Soviets, Reagan built up his army. What did that
> >> have to do with Carter?
> >> It is hard to find much good Carter did but he did keep us out of
> >> silly wars.
> >> Reagan was smart enough to only fight little wars he could win like
> >> Grenada but when Bush (Sr) continued an air war with Iraq after all of
> >> our objectives in Kuwait were accomplished he set us on a path that
> >> lasted 30 years with absolutely nothing good to show for it. We ended
> >> up worse off.
> >> OBL's rise was a reaction to the US not withdrawing from Saudi Arabia
> >> after Kuwait was secured.
> >> Personally I thought Kuwait was a mistake. I predicted then, once we
> >> got mixed up in that mess, we would have a hard time getting out. We
> >> should have let the arabs sort that mess out themselves and we could
> >> buy oil from the winners. Our support should have been no deeper than
> >> selling them weapons if we really thought we needed to do anything. It
> >> wasn't like Kuwait or the Saudis were Jeffersonian democracies we
> >> needed to protect. Watch them kill each other off and eat our popcorn.
> >>
> >
> >Carter’s wishy-washy response encouraged most of the later Middle East
> >shenanigans. Agree with your Kuwait statement, but I think more of the
> >problem with Saddam was he wanted a basket of currencies for petro dollars
> >instead of the US dollar. Which would have effectively removed us as the
> >World currency and screwed up printing of faux dollars.
> Most of out middle east problems are driven by that country on the
> eastern Med that shall remain unnamed. If we stopped cow towing to
> them we could divest ourselves of the middle east entirely like we
> have done in Africa. The few times we did involve ourselves in Africa,
> it was a disaster so we ignore them. Maybe it is time we made the same
> observation about the mid east and south Asia.

Heh. Not so fast. Biden just green-lighted deploying troops to Somalia.

Why is sleepy Joe such a war monger?

On Tue, 17 May 2022 04:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "345...@gmail.com"
<3452471@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:10:34 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 16:21:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ><gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 05:27:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> >> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> >>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>> >>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>> >>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for president.FIFY
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ===
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
>> >>>>>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
>> >>>>>>>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
>> >>>>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
>> >>>>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
>> >>>>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
>> >>>>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
>> >>>>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
>> >>>>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
>> >>>>>> locals.
>> >>>>>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
>> >>>>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
>> >>>>>> assured the hostages would die.
>> >>>>>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
>> >>>>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
>> >>>>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
>> >>>>> a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
>> >>>>> send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
>> >>>>> ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years
>> >>>> of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history
>> >>>> prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they
>> >>>> promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we
>> >>>> were stupid.
>> >>>> if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no
>> >>>> Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars
>> >>>> and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not
>> >>>> exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the
>> >>>> Patriot act.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah, we showed them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> But if Carter had not wimped out, we may not have had Kuwait.
>> >>
>> >> huh?
>> >> We were propping Saddam up during his war with Iran (80-88) and along
>> >> with France and the Soviets, Reagan built up his army. What did that
>> >> have to do with Carter?
>> >> It is hard to find much good Carter did but he did keep us out of
>> >> silly wars.
>> >> Reagan was smart enough to only fight little wars he could win like
>> >> Grenada but when Bush (Sr) continued an air war with Iraq after all of
>> >> our objectives in Kuwait were accomplished he set us on a path that
>> >> lasted 30 years with absolutely nothing good to show for it. We ended
>> >> up worse off.
>> >> OBL's rise was a reaction to the US not withdrawing from Saudi Arabia
>> >> after Kuwait was secured.
>> >> Personally I thought Kuwait was a mistake. I predicted then, once we
>> >> got mixed up in that mess, we would have a hard time getting out. We
>> >> should have let the arabs sort that mess out themselves and we could
>> >> buy oil from the winners. Our support should have been no deeper than
>> >> selling them weapons if we really thought we needed to do anything. It
>> >> wasn't like Kuwait or the Saudis were Jeffersonian democracies we
>> >> needed to protect. Watch them kill each other off and eat our popcorn.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Carter’s wishy-washy response encouraged most of the later Middle East
>> >shenanigans. Agree with your Kuwait statement, but I think more of the
>> >problem with Saddam was he wanted a basket of currencies for petro dollars
>> >instead of the US dollar. Which would have effectively removed us as the
>> >World currency and screwed up printing of faux dollars.
>> Most of out middle east problems are driven by that country on the
>> eastern Med that shall remain unnamed. If we stopped cow towing to
>> them we could divest ourselves of the middle east entirely like we
>> have done in Africa. The few times we did involve ourselves in Africa,
>> it was a disaster so we ignore them. Maybe it is time we made the same
>> observation about the mid east and south Asia.
>
>Heh. Not so fast. Biden just green-lighted deploying troops to Somalia.
>
>Why is sleepy Joe such a war monger?

He is a democrat. They love sending other mother's kids off to fight a
stupid war. This sounds like that draft dodging Clinton's misadventure
there. The indication is these troops will be taking a more active
role in going after al-Shabab and that is the kind of crap the Deltas
got killed over.
Do we really think there is something to win?
Al-Shabab is just the warlord flavor of the week there and if we
killed them all, another one will fill their place before the smoke
clears.

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 04:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "345...@gmail.com"
> <3452471@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:10:34 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 16:21:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 05:27:47 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 20:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 02:32:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
>>>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:34:45 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT),"waynebatr...@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>Without NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> News, along with every late night comedian, Trump would have only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever been a bungling celebrity who foolishly and laughably ran for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president.FIFY
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry John, Wayne wrote that
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually it was Admiral Mike Franken that wrote it. I was quoting him.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Although it might have been a slight bit of hyperbole, it wasn't far
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the mark. Re-read the rest of what he said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I read his stump speech but it was as much bullshit as the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>> them. The democrats are as bad about lying us into wars as the
>>>>>>>>>>> republicans and he glazed over the fact that Trump is the first
>>>>>>>>>>> president since Carter who didn't have us in a no win war.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actually Carter was maybe the worst for war. Doing nothing about the
>>>>>>>>>> embassy takeover, opened us up to the militant Muslims taking over.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how we would have been able to prop up the shah any
>>>>>>>>> longer. Maybe the real answer would have been for the CIA to get some
>>>>>>>>> Corsicans to shoot the ayatollah before he could get back to rally the
>>>>>>>>> locals.
>>>>>>>>> I agree we were somewhat feckless with the embassy take over but the
>>>>>>>>> options were fairly limited. An invasion in force would have just
>>>>>>>>> assured the hostages would die.
>>>>>>>>> Carter's "desert one" debacle made us a laughing stock. It was flawed
>>>>>>>>> from the start. Using Navy mine sweeping helicopters in the desert was
>>>>>>>>> just the beginning of the problems with that plan.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if the hostages died, we would have been better off. Showed us to be
>>>>>>>> a toothless kitty cat. Bad choice of choppers. Would have been better to
>>>>>>>> send a delta team, or similar and start shooting any leader, including the
>>>>>>>> ayatollah. As well as any radical Muslim leader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George Bush wanted to prove he wasn't a wimp and doomed us to 30 years
>>>>>>> of war, only resulting in the worst terrorist attack in history
>>>>>>> prolonging a war that should have been over in 1991 like they
>>>>>>> promised. We didn't show the world we were tough, we showed them we
>>>>>>> were stupid.
>>>>>>> if gwhb went home like we promised, no 911, no Iraq war, no
>>>>>>> Afghanistan war. We save thousands of GI lives, trillions of dollars
>>>>>>> and don't have to get molested at the airport by TSA, (that would not
>>>>>>> exist). Nor would we have the abusive Homeland Security and the
>>>>>>> Patriot act.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, we showed them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if Carter had not wimped out, we may not have had Kuwait.
>>>>>
>>>>> huh?
>>>>> We were propping Saddam up during his war with Iran (80-88) and along
>>>>> with France and the Soviets, Reagan built up his army. What did that
>>>>> have to do with Carter?
>>>>> It is hard to find much good Carter did but he did keep us out of
>>>>> silly wars.
>>>>> Reagan was smart enough to only fight little wars he could win like
>>>>> Grenada but when Bush (Sr) continued an air war with Iraq after all of
>>>>> our objectives in Kuwait were accomplished he set us on a path that
>>>>> lasted 30 years with absolutely nothing good to show for it. We ended
>>>>> up worse off.
>>>>> OBL's rise was a reaction to the US not withdrawing from Saudi Arabia
>>>>> after Kuwait was secured.
>>>>> Personally I thought Kuwait was a mistake. I predicted then, once we
>>>>> got mixed up in that mess, we would have a hard time getting out. We
>>>>> should have let the arabs sort that mess out themselves and we could
>>>>> buy oil from the winners. Our support should have been no deeper than
>>>>> selling them weapons if we really thought we needed to do anything. It
>>>>> wasn't like Kuwait or the Saudis were Jeffersonian democracies we
>>>>> needed to protect. Watch them kill each other off and eat our popcorn.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Carter’s wishy-washy response encouraged most of the later Middle East
>>>> shenanigans. Agree with your Kuwait statement, but I think more of the
>>>> problem with Saddam was he wanted a basket of currencies for petro dollars
>>>> instead of the US dollar. Which would have effectively removed us as the
>>>> World currency and screwed up printing of faux dollars.
>>> Most of out middle east problems are driven by that country on the
>>> eastern Med that shall remain unnamed. If we stopped cow towing to
>>> them we could divest ourselves of the middle east entirely like we
>>> have done in Africa. The few times we did involve ourselves in Africa,
>>> it was a disaster so we ignore them. Maybe it is time we made the same
>>> observation about the mid east and south Asia.
>>
>> Heh. Not so fast. Biden just green-lighted deploying troops to Somalia.
>>
>> Why is sleepy Joe such a war monger?
>
> He is a democrat. They love sending other mother's kids off to fight a
> stupid war. This sounds like that draft dodging Clinton's misadventure
> there. The indication is these troops will be taking a more active
> role in going after al-Shabab and that is the kind of crap the Deltas
> got killed over.
> Do we really think there is something to win?
> Al-Shabab is just the warlord flavor of the week there and if we
> killed them all, another one will fill their place before the smoke
> clears.
>