I'd like to collect some common vetch seeds from roadside patches
to see if they're useful as groundcover. In this (very dry) year
the bloom is good, which augurs well for drought tolerance.

Collecting fully-ripe seeds is difficult. The county mows road
shoulders at irregular intervals, making the plants hard to find
at all and scattering what seeds might be present.

I've tried grabbing a few whole plants at random times, hoping to
find a few mature pods, but it seems that if visible flowers are
present essentially no pods are filled out. Once bloom ceases the
plants are surprisingly hard to find among the other weeds.

Is there any technique to help unripe pods mature enough to yield
viable seeds, either left attached to the plant stem or taken
off? Might putting the cut stems, with pods, in water like cut
flowers allow any useful development?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 18:37:10 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

>I'd like to collect some common vetch seeds from roadside patches
>to see if they're useful as groundcover. In this (very dry) year
>the bloom is good, which augurs well for drought tolerance.
<snip>

Crown vetch was commonly used as a roadside cover... It was a bad
mistake, it is highly invasive. See:

https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=crown%20vetch%20invasive&kd=-1

There are a lot of "vetches". Just be careful collecting along the
roadside and which one you're getting :)

That said you can just order/buy Common Vetch (Vicia sativa) seed:

https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=common%20vetch%20seed&kd=-1

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> Crown vetch was commonly used as a roadside cover... It was a bad
> mistake, it is highly invasive. See:
>
> https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=crown%20vetch%20invasive&kd=-1
>
> There are a lot of "vetches". Just be careful collecting along the
> roadside and which one you're getting :)
>

Understood, I'm confident this is not crown vetch. The flower are puple,
the plant is annual.

> That said you can just order/buy Common Vetch (Vicia sativa) seed:
>
> https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=common%20vetch%20seed&kd=-1
>

That would work, but it's going to be an alien variety. The plants growing
along local roads are already adapted to climate and soil here. And, they're
free if I can find them among the weeds... Tolerance of local conditions
is mostly what I'm after.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

On 4/25/2021 11:37 AM, bob prohaska wrote:
> I'd like to collect some common vetch seeds from roadside patches
> to see if they're useful as groundcover. In this (very dry) year
> the bloom is good, which augurs well for drought tolerance.
>
> Collecting fully-ripe seeds is difficult. The county mows road
> shoulders at irregular intervals, making the plants hard to find
> at all and scattering what seeds might be present.
>
> I've tried grabbing a few whole plants at random times, hoping to
> find a few mature pods, but it seems that if visible flowers are
> present essentially no pods are filled out. Once bloom ceases the
> plants are surprisingly hard to find among the other weeds.
>
> Is there any technique to help unripe pods mature enough to yield
> viable seeds, either left attached to the plant stem or taken
> off? Might putting the cut stems, with pods, in water like cut
> flowers allow any useful development?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>

If you pick them before they are ready, seeds will not mature. You
might try digging up a plant and potting it to keep it alive until its
seeds mature naturally.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html>
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

David E. Ross <not_me@not_there.invalid> wrote:
> On 4/25/2021 11:37 AM, bob prohaska wrote:
>> I'd like to collect some common vetch seeds from roadside patches
>> to see if they're useful as groundcover. In this (very dry) year
>> the bloom is good, which augurs well for drought tolerance.
>>
>> Collecting fully-ripe seeds is difficult. The county mows road
>> shoulders at irregular intervals, making the plants hard to find
>> at all and scattering what seeds might be present.
>>
>> I've tried grabbing a few whole plants at random times, hoping to
>> find a few mature pods, but it seems that if visible flowers are
>> present essentially no pods are filled out. Once bloom ceases the
>> plants are surprisingly hard to find among the other weeds.
>>
>> Is there any technique to help unripe pods mature enough to yield
>> viable seeds, either left attached to the plant stem or taken
>> off? Might putting the cut stems, with pods, in water like cut
>> flowers allow any useful development?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>>
>
> If you pick them before they are ready, seeds will not mature. You
> might try digging up a plant and potting it to keep it alive until its
> seeds mature naturally.
>
Granted, if I pick just the pod too early there's no hope. I was wondering
if taking a substantial cutting and keeping it hydrated to some extent
might promote at least partial maturation.

Plantnapping isn't exactly a crime, but it's more work and getting late
in the season...
8-)

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

On 4/25/2021 7:25 PM, bob prohaska wrote [in part]:

[snipped]

> Granted, if I pick just the pod too early there's no hope. I was wondering
> if taking a substantial cutting and keeping it hydrated to some extent
> might promote at least partial maturation.

[snipped]

That might work with a perennial or woody plant. It almost never works
with annuals. The only annual I ever saw as an exception was a
marigold. One summer, I grew some tall merigolds and made a bouquet of
them for my wife. After a week, I went to change the water in the vase
and discovered the stems had put out roots into the water. The bouquet
lasted several weeks.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

News item: "Conservative U.S. House Republicans to
form 'America First' caucus"

During the 1930s, America First was a pro-Nazi political movement.

David E. Ross <not_me@not_there.invalid> wrote:
> On 4/25/2021 7:25 PM, bob prohaska wrote [in part]:
>
> [snipped]
>
>> Granted, if I pick just the pod too early there's no hope. I was wondering
>> if taking a substantial cutting and keeping it hydrated to some extent
>> might promote at least partial maturation.
>
> [snipped]
>
> That might work with a perennial or woody plant. It almost never works
> with annuals. The only annual I ever saw as an exception was a
> marigold. One summer, I grew some tall merigolds and made a bouquet of
> them for my wife. After a week, I went to change the water in the vase
> and discovered the stems had put out roots into the water. The bouquet
> lasted several weeks.
>
Well, that proves it's possible. I'll grab a bunch and try to keep
it moist on the way home, then stick the stems in water. I don't
really expect roots, a little more development of the pods would be
helpful. If not, it was cheap entertainment...

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

I've collected a few bunches of vetch with both pods and flowers.
Some pods have been detached, to dry separately. Some whole bunches
are drying intact, so see if it makes a difference. Another bunch
or two have been placed with stems in water, to see if keeping them
a little hydrated helps any.

One thing I haven't seen are any obviously ripe pods, even from the
bottom of apparently-old plants. All pods are bright green, much
like snow peas. Pods at the bottom of the plants have obvious seeds,
but none are filled to the extent seen with snow peas, which fill
the pod to near-bursting when close to ripe.

What does a ripe common vetch pod look like? Links to photos would
be ideal, photos found so far are mostly of flowers and leaves.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

On Sat, 1 May 2021 00:47:35 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>What does a ripe common vetch pod look like? Links to photos would
>be ideal, photos found so far are mostly of flowers and leaves.

You may be able to find something here:

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=2975014

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 4/25/2021 2:37 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
> I'd like to collect some common vetch seeds from roadside patches
> to see if they're useful as groundcover. In this (very dry) year
> the bloom is good, which augurs well for drought tolerance.
>
> Collecting fully-ripe seeds is difficult. The county mows road
> shoulders at irregular intervals, making the plants hard to find
> at all and scattering what seeds might be present.
>
> I've tried grabbing a few whole plants at random times, hoping to
> find a few mature pods, but it seems that if visible flowers are
> present essentially no pods are filled out. Once bloom ceases the
> plants are surprisingly hard to find among the other weeds.
>
> Is there any technique to help unripe pods mature enough to yield
> viable seeds, either left attached to the plant stem or taken
> off? Might putting the cut stems, with pods, in water like cut
> flowers allow any useful development?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>
I tried it as a ground cover for my slopes in the back yard years ago
when it was widely used along roads in neighboring PA. Stared growing
nicely but disappeared. Turned out the deer loved it.

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
[regarding common vetch]
> I tried it as a ground cover for my slopes in the back yard years ago
> when it was widely used along roads in neighboring PA. Stared growing
> nicely but disappeared. Turned out the deer loved it.

The only herbivores in my yard are fox squirrels. Whether they'll
be a problem with vetch is unclear, but they're becoming destructive
to pecan catkins.

Apart from lack of persistence did you observe any objectionable
features of the vetch?

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 May 2021 00:47:35 -0000 (UTC)
> bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>What does a ripe common vetch pod look like? Links to photos would
>>be ideal, photos found so far are mostly of flowers and leaves.
>
> You may be able to find something here:
>
> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=2975014

That is a most impressive site.

The only ripe pod image I could
find was
https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/3044680742
which is from New Zealand. If that's what mine need to look like
I'm nowhere close to having ripe pods.

Everything I have looks like a miniature snow pea with visible seeds.
This picture is close:
https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/3058848655

Thanks very much for writing!

bob prohaska

On Sat, 1 May 2021 19:11:51 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>The only ripe pod image I could
>find was
>https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/3044680742
>which is from New Zealand. If that's what mine need to look like
>I'm nowhere close to having ripe pods.

Shouldn't matter, that is why Latin names are used. Should be the same
plant whether growing here or over there. Only question would be if it
was properly ID'd...

Same site but a bit different search parameters. A lot of these
images are from herbariums in the USA. Dried/pressed specimens...

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?continent=NORTH_AMERICA&country=US&taxon_key=2975014

It seems like yours are a bit immature yet...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 5/1/2021 2:57 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
> Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
> [regarding common vetch]
>> I tried it as a ground cover for my slopes in the back yard years ago
>> when it was widely used along roads in neighboring PA. Stared growing
>> nicely but disappeared. Turned out the deer loved it.
>
> The only herbivores in my yard are fox squirrels. Whether they'll
> be a problem with vetch is unclear, but they're becoming destructive
> to pecan catkins.
>
> Apart from lack of persistence did you observe any objectionable
> features of the vetch?
>
> Thanks for writing!
>
> bob prohaska
>

It had been quite a while but it was growing nicely. Cannot remember
how I planted it. I had same experience with ivy which deer would eat
in winter. I had a lot of both on my banks and not a trace now and have
of late been fighting Japanese stilt grass and sticky weed.

There is also shade to consider. Deer do not eat pachysandra but it
appears to like shade and I do not see it in sunny areas.

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> It seems like yours are a bit immature yet...

Refrigerator?

bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
[in regards to collecting roadside common vetch seeds]
>
> Collecting fully-ripe seeds is difficult. The county mows road
> shoulders at irregular intervals, making the plants hard to find
> at all and scattering what seeds might be present.
>
> I've tried grabbing a few whole plants at random times, hoping to
> find a few mature pods, but it seems that if visible flowers are
> present essentially no pods are filled out. Once bloom ceases the
> plants are surprisingly hard to find among the other weeds.
>

It turns out a few pods will ripen after a plant is pulled. Keeping
the stems wet might help a little, but it didn't help very much.

In the end several large clumps of vetch were pulled up and placed
in a bag to dry slowly. A small fraction of pods, presumably the
oldest, filled out and released seeds. I'll try to start a few now,
to check viability, and save the rest to plant in the spring.

Thanks for everybody's attention,

bob prohaska

On Sat, 15 May 2021 17:49:06 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

>It turns out a few pods will ripen after a plant is pulled. Keeping
>the stems wet might help a little, but it didn't help very much.
>
>In the end several large clumps of vetch were pulled up and placed
>in a bag to dry slowly. A small fraction of pods, presumably the
>oldest, filled out and released seeds. I'll try to start a few now,
>to check viability, and save the rest to plant in the spring.

Thanks for the follow up. Kinda wondered how you made out :)

I noticed this picture:

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/930740893

Was reported to have been taken on June 14 in Tennessee. Don't know
where your at but may give you some clue as to when they ripen. Maybe
keep on eye on where you got your plants too. I know around here the
brush hogs don't get everything and some plants recover pretty quick
afterwards...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 May 2021 17:49:06 -0000 (UTC)
> bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>
>>It turns out a few pods will ripen after a plant is pulled. Keeping
>>the stems wet might help a little, but it didn't help very much.
>>
>>In the end several large clumps of vetch were pulled up and placed
>>in a bag to dry slowly. A small fraction of pods, presumably the
>>oldest, filled out and released seeds. I'll try to start a few now,
>>to check viability, and save the rest to plant in the spring.
>
> Thanks for the follow up. Kinda wondered how you made out :)
>
> I noticed this picture:
>
> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/930740893
>
> Was reported to have been taken on June 14 in Tennessee. Don't know
> where your at but may give you some clue as to when they ripen. Maybe
> keep on eye on where you got your plants too. I know around here the
> brush hogs don't get everything and some plants recover pretty quick
> afterwards...
>
I'm about 20 miles west-southwest of Sacramento, CA. Much, much dryer
than Tennessee.

That image is rather different from what I'm collecting. It's shaped like a
green bean, longer and thinner than what I'm dealing with. The pods I'm
seeing are much shorter, usually with only 4-6 seeds. Much lighter in color
also, being no darker than pale brown. Superficially they resemble snow
peas, but shorter and at about quarter scale.

This past winter recorded only about eight inches of rain, perhaps the
local vetch would look more like the photos in a wetter environment.
Normal for this area is just shy of 20 inches. At this point the growing
season is over outside of irrigated areas. Despite that, the local vetch
grew quite luxuriantly during the very brief wet interval.

I've already put a few of the collected seeds into potting mix to see if
they do anything. If they grow, good. If they don't I'll put the rest
of the seeds in the fridge and hope for the best.

Thanks for reading!

bob prohaska