On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 11:52:34 AM UTC+1, geoff...@sky.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 05:01:24 UTC, peter...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > I'm trying to figure out who William de Weyland's parents were. This is the William who was married to Elizabeth de Bathonia. Some claim he was the son of Thomas de Weyland and Anne de Colevill, but I've seen no evidence of this one way or the other. Thanks.
> in 1316 a fine was levied.... against Sir William de Weyland, the eldest son of Sir Thomas Weyland, of this manor, and Westerfield, by which they passed to the said Robert [de Baldcock], who regranted the same to Robert, son of the said Sir William de Weyland, and Cecilia his (Robert's) wife, daughter of Thomas de Baldcock, and the heirs of their bodies, being a marriage arrangement' [Feet of Fines, 9 Edw. II. 25, cited in Copinger, Vol. IV - Brandeston, p. 222; see also Copinger, Vol. II - Westerfield, p. 369]
>
> I don't know where I got this quote from so apologies to whoever first found it, probably John Ravilious.
>
> Geoff V

I think there is a wrong idea which has built up about there being evidence that there were two William Weylands with two different wives (Bathonia and Riston). The cause is Copinger's Manors of Suffolk. I could be wrong of course, but I'll post my reasoning...

Ravilious did indeed post a quote in 2003, which came from Copinger, which said that William Weylond the father of Robert, was eldest son of a Thomas. Here is Copinger: https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n233/mode/2up and now here is the fine in question http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_218_60-67/IMG_0267.htm I do not see any father of William named there? Also Rye and Blomefield never interpreted it that way.

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 10:46:24 AM UTC+2, lancast...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 11:52:34 AM UTC+1, geoff...@sky.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 05:01:24 UTC, peter...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > I'm trying to figure out who William de Weyland's parents were. This is the William who was married to Elizabeth de Bathonia. Some claim he was the son of Thomas de Weyland and Anne de Colevill, but I've seen no evidence of this one way or the other. Thanks.
> > in 1316 a fine was levied.... against Sir William de Weyland, the eldest son of Sir Thomas Weyland, of this manor, and Westerfield, by which they passed to the said Robert [de Baldcock], who regranted the same to Robert, son of the said Sir William de Weyland, and Cecilia his (Robert's) wife, daughter of Thomas de Baldcock, and the heirs of their bodies, being a marriage arrangement' [Feet of Fines, 9 Edw. II. 25, cited in Copinger, Vol. IV - Brandeston, p. 222; see also Copinger, Vol. II - Westerfield, p. 369]
> >
> > I don't know where I got this quote from so apologies to whoever first found it, probably John Ravilious.
> >
> > Geoff V
> I think there is a wrong idea which has built up about there being evidence that there were two William Weylands with two different wives (Bathonia and Riston). The cause is Copinger's Manors of Suffolk. I could be wrong of course, but I'll post my reasoning...
>
> Ravilious did indeed post a quote in 2003, which came from Copinger, which said that William Weylond the father of Robert, was eldest son of a Thomas. Here is Copinger: https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n233/mode/2up and now here is the fine in question http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_218_60-67/IMG_0267.htm I do not see any father of William named there? Also Rye and Blomefield never interpreted it that way.

I finally seem to have found a record which clearly confirms that the father of William de Weylond of Charsfeld, Westerfeld, Oxburgh, etc, and husband of Elizabeth de Bathonia (who brought Someset lands in Radewell, Compton Durevill etc), is the son (and not just heir) of Nicholas who preceded him. https://archive.org/details/calendarcharter01cunngoog/page/286/mode/2up (Calendar of the Charter Rolls).

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:27:22 PM UTC+2, lancast...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 10:46:24 AM UTC+2, lancast...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 11:52:34 AM UTC+1, geoff...@sky.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 05:01:24 UTC, peter...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > I'm trying to figure out who William de Weyland's parents were. This is the William who was married to Elizabeth de Bathonia. Some claim he was the son of Thomas de Weyland and Anne de Colevill, but I've seen no evidence of this one way or the other. Thanks.
> > > in 1316 a fine was levied.... against Sir William de Weyland, the eldest son of Sir Thomas Weyland, of this manor, and Westerfield, by which they passed to the said Robert [de Baldcock], who regranted the same to Robert, son of the said Sir William de Weyland, and Cecilia his (Robert's) wife, daughter of Thomas de Baldcock, and the heirs of their bodies, being a marriage arrangement' [Feet of Fines, 9 Edw. II. 25, cited in Copinger, Vol. IV - Brandeston, p. 222; see also Copinger, Vol. II - Westerfield, p. 369]
> > >
> > > I don't know where I got this quote from so apologies to whoever first found it, probably John Ravilious.
> > >
> > > Geoff V
> > I think there is a wrong idea which has built up about there being evidence that there were two William Weylands with two different wives (Bathonia and Riston). The cause is Copinger's Manors of Suffolk. I could be wrong of course, but I'll post my reasoning...
> >
> > Ravilious did indeed post a quote in 2003, which came from Copinger, which said that William Weylond the father of Robert, was eldest son of a Thomas. Here is Copinger: https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n233/mode/2up and now here is the fine in question http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_218_60-67/IMG_0267.htm I do not see any father of William named there? Also Rye and Blomefield never interpreted it that way.
> I finally seem to have found a record which clearly confirms that the father of William de Weylond of Charsfeld, Westerfeld, Oxburgh, etc, and husband of Elizabeth de Bathonia (who brought Someset lands in Radewell, Compton Durevill etc), is the son (and not just heir) of Nicholas who preceded him.. https://archive.org/details/calendarcharter01cunngoog/page/286/mode/2up (Calendar of the Charter Rolls).

I've now had some correspondence with Professor Paul Brand who wrote the ODNB article about Sir Thomas Weyland. He showed me the solution to some of the questions which we've had trouble with on this list. I come at this from the direction of Nicholas. Who is the father of Nicholas, and how does he connect to Sir Thomas and the rest?

King’s Bench plea roll for Michaelmas term KB 27/49, m. 21 (AALT image http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E1/KB27no49/IMG_0620.htm 0620 ).

Nicholas is thus a son of an older William. This William was an important administrator until he died in 1274. For example for several years he was escheator in England south of the Trent. This means Nicholas must be illegitimate, because we know William's heir was his brother Sir Thomas. As it happens, Nicholas married an illegitimate daughter of Robert Burnel, bishop of Bath and Wells. It is an interesting case. I suppose Nicholas and his wife benefited out of their family connections (and perhaps also out of the fact that Sir Thomas went out of favour and was expelled from England for some time, putting his part of the family inheritance at risk).

Going back further Professor Brand intends to publish more on this. He has demonstrated more clearly that William and Thomas had an older brother John and (a surprise to me) a younger brother Richard. Their parents were Herbert and Beatrice. This couple also appears in pedigrees such as that of Blomefield (under Oxburgh), but there are errors in the other parts of that pedigree. It is a very interesting family. Herbert seems to have been not much more than a peasant, but 4 of his sons clearly got a good education and employment. 3 of them did very well indeed for themselves.

I found your update VERY interesting. Thank you. I am a descendant of William and Elizabeth.