not too much different goes on here for gardening at this
time of the year.

daydreaming of spring, planning what to plent,
getting ready for a seed swap coming up towards
the end of February and thinking about what
projects i might be lucky enough to finish.

some spots i can do some more reclaiming the
garden space from grasses that have taken over.
that would be nice to have back as garden for
growing more beans and squash but the deer can
get at it so without a fence it's hard to
justify the amount of work it takes. i may do
it anyways. we'll see how that goes when the
time gets nearer. :)

any plans there for this coming gardening
season? it is mostly looking like the normal
routine here and i'm quite ok with that!

songbird

On 2023-01-11, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> not too much different goes on here for gardening at this
> time of the year.

> daydreaming of spring, planning what to plent,
> getting ready for a seed swap coming up towards
> the end of February and thinking about what
> projects i might be lucky enough to finish.

> some spots i can do some more reclaiming the
> garden space from grasses that have taken over.
> that would be nice to have back as garden for
> growing more beans and squash but the deer can
> get at it so without a fence it's hard to
> justify the amount of work it takes. i may do
> it anyways. we'll see how that goes when the
> time gets nearer. :)

> any plans there for this coming gardening
> season? it is mostly looking like the normal
> routine here and i'm quite ok with that!

i'm monitoring my garlic bed to make sure it doesn't dry out. weather
keeps going the way it has been the last few days i'll be hitching an
anchor to it so it doesn't float away.

i have a greenhouse of sorts made from wire shelving, heat mats,
florescent lights and mylar (reflective) insulation. doubles as drying
rack for garlic, sunflower heads, and now gladiolus bulbs. need to clean
it and the area up around it and organize. been gardening only a few
years and quite the heap of gardening clutter has landed around it and
on and under the bench next to it.

will start growing seeds at the end of february / early march. tomatoes
and peppers. i have the pepper and cherry tomato seeds i want. i want to
try growing determinate plum or roma tomatoes specifically for canning
this year. need to make up my mind what variety and where to get it.

my four 4 x 8 foot raised vegetable beds have a 6 foot high 2 x 3 wire
mesh fence built around them. the bottom two feet is covered with 1 inch
chicken mesh. did a great job of keeping the critters out except for the
spots i buzzed the chicken wire with a weed wacker which the groundhogs
exploited last spring. my back yard has since been fenced in and the deer
are mostly staying out. i'm going to have that rickety wire mesh fence i
hastily put up myself replaced with a 4 foot high chain link fence. i will
use chicken mesh on the bottom again, folding it out away from the chain
link 1 foot on the ground to keep the 'chucks and rabbit from digging under.
and i need to run a section of chain link fence between the house and
garage which will be more gate than fence itself.

i have 4 passion fruit / flower plants dormant in the basement
overwintering. this is the third winter for three of them, second for
one. the vines crawled all over the 6 foot high wire mesh fence. have a
couple things to do there. need to figure out how i'm going to trellis
them on top of the chain link, and, not so smart me put them in 14"
terra cota pots requiring watering nearly every day. i was thinking
about getting some nice 15 inch heavy glazed ceramic pots, but dayum,
they're $100 each. now i gotta decide if there's pros and cons to resin
vs ceramic pots.

in the mean time, will just keep putting coffee grounds and used loose
tea in the flower barrels and walking kitchen scraps back to the frozen
compost piles.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

chicken wire is just not strong enough to last very long
in the ground. it will rust through within a few years.
if you're going to do it use a larger gauge wire.

songbird

On 1/11/2023 9:49, songbird wrote:
> not too much different goes on here for gardening at this
> time of the year.
>
> daydreaming of spring,

That's the extent of my life as of yet ;)

> any plans there for this coming gardening
> season? it is mostly looking like the normal
> routine here and i'm quite ok with that!

I had a rather small vegetable garden along the side of my hill the last
two years, right at the top, and it's always been difficult to tend
it... especially trying to get footing while I turn soil over with my
old belt-driven rototiller... plus the bricks to keep the dirt from
washing down. I live on a fairly steep city lot. I think I might plant
a few flowers (I have dahlia tubers, etc.) there this year, and move the
vegetables elsewhere.

There is a flat spot lower on my lot, about the same size (maybe 3 feet
wide by 18-20 feet long), where I can easily walk along a wide stone
retaining wall to tend the garden. I might take Sheldon's (RFC)
suggestion and make a raised bed out of it. Grandpap lived through the
depression, and they planted a lot... he strictly advised starting to
turn the soil over in late February, as soon as it isn't frozen... we're
gaining on that time fast (eastern Ohio). I do have a few tree limbs to
cut to take full advantage of the southern exposure.

On 1/13/2023 11:59, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> i was thinking
> about getting some nice 15 inch heavy glazed ceramic pots, but dayum,
> they're $100 each. now i gotta decide if there's pros and cons to resin
> vs ceramic pots.

Shop second hand stores, flea markets, etc. I work at the local antique
mall, and some dealers pick up those big ceramic pots at auction, and
sell them really cheap in my neck of the woods. I've picked them up for
well under $20/ea. sometimes.

> in the mean time, will just keep putting coffee grounds and used loose
> tea in the flower barrels and walking kitchen scraps back to the frozen
> compost piles.

That's what I really need to get on doing. I used to keep coffee
grounds, egg shells, etc... but I hardly think of it, now. I'd like to
fasten a rain barrel on the corner of my house nearest the garden, also.

Michael Trew wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 9:49, songbird wrote:
....
>> any plans there for this coming gardening
>> season? it is mostly looking like the normal
>> routine here and i'm quite ok with that!
>
> I had a rather small vegetable garden along the side of my hill the last
> two years, right at the top, and it's always been difficult to tend
> it... especially trying to get footing while I turn soil over with my
> old belt-driven rototiller... plus the bricks to keep the dirt from
> washing down. I live on a fairly steep city lot. I think I might plant
> a few flowers (I have dahlia tubers, etc.) there this year, and move the
> vegetables elsewhere.

yes, slopes are always a challenge. i try to plant them
with thymes and then leave them alone other than keeping
them weeded. rocks and bricks can make some interesting
contrasts and help break up any flows that might happen
during heavier downpours.

> There is a flat spot lower on my lot, about the same size (maybe 3 feet
> wide by 18-20 feet long), where I can easily walk along a wide stone
> retaining wall to tend the garden. I might take Sheldon's (RFC)
> suggestion and make a raised bed out of it. Grandpap lived through the
> depression, and they planted a lot... he strictly advised starting to
> turn the soil over in late February, as soon as it isn't frozen... we're
> gaining on that time fast (eastern Ohio). I do have a few tree limbs to
> cut to take full advantage of the southern exposure.

yeah, trees can become a challenge and they can happen
gradually enough that you don't notice it until it becomes
a bigger problem to deal with. i have some trees here that
i wanted to take out years ago but could not (i'm not the
owner). such is life...

good luck! :)

songbird

Michael Trew wrote:
....
> That's what I really need to get on doing. I used to keep coffee
> grounds, egg shells, etc... but I hardly think of it, now. I'd like to
> fasten a rain barrel on the corner of my house nearest the garden, also.

i worm compost everything organic that comes through here.
it's my sole source of extra nutrients but since i only need
so much for the heaviest feeding plants it works out fine.

i used to harvest green manure from some alfalfa and
birdsfoot trefoil but i've mostly had that patch taken over
by grasses and other weeds so i don't cut that back any
longer - it gets regularly mowed instead. i'm hoping
this year to turn more of it back into garden space.

songbird

On 2023-01-13, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> chicken wire is just not strong enough to last very long
> in the ground. it will rust through within a few years.
> if you're going to do it use a larger gauge wire.

great point. longevity. the chicken wire i used is galvanized and what
is on the ground (covered with mulch) has been there since spring 2020
and is still intact. a few more years it would start disintegrating. i've
decided to use galvanized expanded metal instead. it'll come out from the
chain link fence 1 foot, and up the fence at a right angle from the ground
several inches. thanks.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

On 2023-01-14, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 1/13/2023 11:59, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> i was thinking
>> about getting some nice 15 inch heavy glazed ceramic pots, but dayum,
>> they're $100 each. now i gotta decide if there's pros and cons to resin
>> vs ceramic pots.

> Shop second hand stores, flea markets, etc. I work at the local antique
> mall, and some dealers pick up those big ceramic pots at auction, and
> sell them really cheap in my neck of the woods. I've picked them up for
> well under $20/ea. sometimes.

i'm not going anywhere near an antique mall with my wife who gets to
decide what style and color pots she wants. last time i was at one, in
Salamanca NY, she dragged me around in there for 4 hours. it was
torture. i volunteered to go to the casino so she could browse around to
her hearts content but she was having none of that. so no. just no antique
malls. lol

there is a giant flea market in a suburb of Buffalo, we will take a look
there. thanks for the idea.

>> in the mean time, will just keep putting coffee grounds and used loose
>> tea in the flower barrels and walking kitchen scraps back to the frozen
>> compost piles.

> That's what I really need to get on doing. I used to keep coffee
> grounds, egg shells, etc... but I hardly think of it, now. I'd like to
> fasten a rain barrel on the corner of my house nearest the garden, also.

we were putting the grounds and tea in the compost. my wife started
talking about how her late grandmother was quite the green thumb and
would be quite proud of what we've been doing. she said her grandmother
always put the coffee grounds in the flower pots. i have 4 half whisky
barrels we use for annual flowers, that's where we're putting the tea
and coffee grounds now. it was a duh moment for me lol.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

On 1/16/2023 14:24, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2023-01-14, Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>> On 1/13/2023 11:59, fos@sdf.org wrote:
>>>
>> Shop second hand stores, flea markets, etc. I work at the local antique
>> mall, and some dealers pick up those big ceramic pots at auction, and
>> sell them really cheap in my neck of the woods. I've picked them up for
>> well under $20/ea. sometimes.
>
> i'm not going anywhere near an antique mall with my wife who gets to
> decide what style and color pots she wants. last time i was at one, in
> Salamanca NY, she dragged me around in there for 4 hours. it was
> torture. i volunteered to go to the casino so she could browse around to
> her hearts content but she was having none of that. so no. just no antique
> malls. lol
>
> there is a giant flea market in a suburb of Buffalo, we will take a look
> there. thanks for the idea.

No problem. Your antique malls are probably more expensive than ours.
We aren't far from the Mountaineer casino, and I know multiple couples
who make an arrangement where one shops (usually female) and one goes to
the casino (usually male). ;)

>>> in the mean time, will just keep putting coffee grounds and used loose
>>> tea in the flower barrels and walking kitchen scraps back to the frozen
>>> compost piles.
>
>> That's what I really need to get on doing. I used to keep coffee
>> grounds, egg shells, etc... but I hardly think of it, now. I'd like to
>> fasten a rain barrel on the corner of my house nearest the garden, also.
>
> we were putting the grounds and tea in the compost. my wife started
> talking about how her late grandmother was quite the green thumb and
> would be quite proud of what we've been doing.

After my post quoted above, I started putting the morning's grounds (and
egg shells) into a large zip-lock back in my freezer, until I figure out
a compost pile. Worst case, I'll just start dumping it where I turn
soil over once it's full.

On 2023-01-17, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

> After my post quoted above, I started putting the morning's grounds (and
> egg shells) into a large zip-lock back in my freezer, until I figure out
> a compost pile. Worst case, I'll just start dumping it where I turn
> soil over once it's full.

others will know better than me, but my in experience not much
decomposition happens in the winter even during thaws. prior to this
year i was topping off the barrels with leaf mold and semi-rotten straw
and most of it was there in the spring which then got turned into the
soil when it thawed.

i wouldn't use freezer space to store the grounds, i'd just dump them in
the garden beds and turn it in when working the soil when it thaws. most
of it will still be there when you get the shovel out.

i do still consider myself a gardening noob, so those are just my
thoughts and i'm quite capable of wrongthink so tread carefully. lol.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i do still consider myself a gardening noob, so those are just my
> thoughts and i'm quite capable of wrongthink so tread carefully. lol.

if you have room in a basement or an unfreezing and
uncooked by heat in the summer type of space you can
keep worms in buckets and they will actively help break
down any food scraps.

it cost me all of $20 to get started and most of that
expense was buying sheer fabric (for curtains) to use
as bucket covers, but you could use old t-shirts
instead as long as they weren't holey.

for that $20 i've gotten a few hundred pounds a year
on average of reconditioned garden soil and fertilzer
that i don't spend any money on those in a normal year.

the other thing to do for free garden nutrients is
to grow some green manure crops and cut them back once
in a while and feed that to the gardens.

i have plenty of other tips from experience doing
this too. :) it's fun to learn about worms, ecology
and nature while you're at it.

songbird

On 2023-01-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i do still consider myself a gardening noob, so those are just my
>> thoughts and i'm quite capable of wrongthink so tread carefully. lol.

> if you have room in a basement or an unfreezing and
> uncooked by heat in the summer type of space you can
> keep worms in buckets and they will actively help break
> down any food scraps.

that sounds a heck of a lot better than trudging through knee deep snow
to the compost pile in the winter. i have the perfect place for that,
our passion flower plants are over wintering there. dark. cool in the
summer, not freezing in the winter.

i'll get there eventually. i already have blood meal, bone meal, and
potash (Espoma brand) budgeted for spring. and i go through a gallon and
one half of hydrolyzed fish and seaweed fertilizer a year. i use Jack's
instant release fertilizer for annual flowers. i've been buying black kow
composted manure and i really want to get away from doing that.

my compost pile is in dire need of being turned. i have three large bins
side by side made from 40 inch square pallets. there's very coarse brush
in one bin, kitchen scraps in one, and chipped / shredded brush in another.
last spring i chipped the brush and planned on mixing it with the kitchen
scraps. when i went to do it there were hornets nests in the ground in
front of the compost bins due to the drought. nope. just nope. the compost
hasn't been turned since i started adding to it in spring 2020.

i do have four, four foot high three foot round tubes of wire mesh
fencing i pack full of leaves every fall. the resulting leaf mold gets
turned into the vegetable beds in the spring.

i'll get much closer to being self sustaining someday, Rome wasn't
built in a day.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i'll get much closer to being self sustaining someday, Rome wasn't
> built in a day.

that's an interesting expression if you look at what Rome
did to North Africa and also the topsoil of much of Italy
and other surrounding areas... well they basically turned
a lot of area into bare rocks or desert from removing so
much organic materials (to feed the citizens of Rome, etc.).

it can happen so gradually that people don't even notice
the changes, but it can eventually add up to destruction.

songbird

On 1/18/2023 12:13, songbird wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i do still consider myself a gardening noob, so those are just my
>> thoughts and i'm quite capable of wrongthink so tread carefully. lol.
>
> if you have room in a basement or an unfreezing and
> uncooked by heat in the summer type of space you can
> keep worms in buckets and they will actively help break
> down any food scraps.
>
> it cost me all of $20 to get started and most of that
> expense was buying sheer fabric (for curtains) to use
> as bucket covers, but you could use old t-shirts
> instead as long as they weren't holey.
>
> for that $20 i've gotten a few hundred pounds a year
> on average of reconditioned garden soil and fertilzer
> that i don't spend any money on those in a normal year.
>
> the other thing to do for free garden nutrients is
> to grow some green manure crops and cut them back once
> in a while and feed that to the gardens.
>
> i have plenty of other tips from experience doing
> this too. :) it's fun to learn about worms, ecology
> and nature while you're at it.
>
>
> songbird

That's a nifty idea; I would have never thought of it! Presumably you
only use plant type food scraps, and not any kind of meat scraps.

Michael Trew wrote:
....
> That's a nifty idea; I would have never thought of it! Presumably you
> only use plant type food scraps, and not any kind of meat scraps.

you don't want a lot of meat and fat, but small amounts
stuck on bones won't be a problem as i bury them in the dirt.

that is the difference between using only compost worms
and organic materials vs. some dirt and earthworms too.

songbird

On 2023-01-21, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i'll get much closer to being self sustaining someday, Rome wasn't
>> built in a day.

> that's an interesting expression if you look at what Rome
> did to North Africa and also the topsoil of much of Italy
> and other surrounding areas... well they basically turned
> a lot of area into bare rocks or desert from removing so
> much organic materials (to feed the citizens of Rome, etc.).

> it can happen so gradually that people don't even notice
> the changes, but it can eventually add up to destruction.

thanks for the history lesson, i did not know this. am going to have to
train myself to use a better expression now, but great achievements are
not accomplished overnight so it'll take some patience. ;)

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

On 2023-01-23, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 1/18/2023 12:13, songbird wrote:
>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> ...
>>> i do still consider myself a gardening noob, so those are just my
>>> thoughts and i'm quite capable of wrongthink so tread carefully. lol.

>> if you have room in a basement or an unfreezing and
>> uncooked by heat in the summer type of space you can
>> keep worms in buckets and they will actively help break
>> down any food scraps.

>> it cost me all of $20 to get started and most of that
>> expense was buying sheer fabric (for curtains) to use
>> as bucket covers, but you could use old t-shirts
>> instead as long as they weren't holey.

>> for that $20 i've gotten a few hundred pounds a year
>> on average of reconditioned garden soil and fertilzer
>> that i don't spend any money on those in a normal year.

>> the other thing to do for free garden nutrients is
>> to grow some green manure crops and cut them back once
>> in a while and feed that to the gardens.

>> i have plenty of other tips from experience doing
>> this too. :) it's fun to learn about worms, ecology
>> and nature while you're at it.

> That's a nifty idea; I would have never thought of it! Presumably you
> only use plant type food scraps, and not any kind of meat scraps.

i think it's a great idea too. i mentioned it to my wife and she said if
i did it in the house she's moving out. she has a fear of creatures
without legs. snakes and worms. it's a deep primal fear. even seeing
them on tv triggers her. i told her they'd be covered and wouldn't be
able to get out. doesn't matter, she'd know they are there.

if i put a greenhouse outside and heated it i could do it. but that's a
faint blip on the outer edge of the radar screen so it's unlikely to
happen anytime soon, if ever.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

On 1/24/2023 11:50, fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2023-01-23, Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>.
>> That's a nifty idea; I would have never thought of it! Presumably you
>> only use plant type food scraps, and not any kind of meat scraps.
>
> i think it's a great idea too. i mentioned it to my wife and she said if
> i did it in the house she's moving out. she has a fear of creatures
> without legs. snakes and worms. it's a deep primal fear. even seeing
> them on tv triggers her. i told her they'd be covered and wouldn't be
> able to get out. doesn't matter, she'd know they are there.
>
> if i put a greenhouse outside and heated it i could do it. but that's a
> faint blip on the outer edge of the radar screen so it's unlikely to
> happen anytime soon, if ever.

I'd love to have an outdoor greenhouse. Long before I got here, there
was a large back porch on my house, but all is gone except for the
mortared over slots in the brick wall... and you can see that they used
uglier brick below the porch floor, since it wasn't visible (but it is
now).

I've thought about trying to build a lean-to type back porch, part of it
being a green house, built from architectural salvage window sashes
(which are a lot cheaper than buying glass/lumber, especially if you
know someone replacing their windows). The trouble is, doing it in a
tasteful fashion that doesn't look trashy. That project is probably a
long way off, but if I come across a bunch of old windows cheap/free,
I'll store them in the rafters in my garage.

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> thanks for the history lesson, i did not know this. am going to have to
> train myself to use a better expression now, but great achievements are
> not accomplished overnight so it'll take some patience. ;)

there's a good book on the topic from David Montgomery
called _Dirt_ if you can get it from your local library
it's worth a read. things to think about during the off-
season. :)

songbird

fos@sdf.org wrote:
....
> i think it's a great idea too. i mentioned it to my wife and she said if
> i did it in the house she's moving out. she has a fear of creatures
> without legs. snakes and worms. it's a deep primal fear. even seeing
> them on tv triggers her. i told her they'd be covered and wouldn't be
> able to get out. doesn't matter, she'd know they are there.

yeah, some people are like that. do you have a spot where
you can put in an external cellar? like the side of a hill?
that is something i wish we could have here as we have no
cellar space at all. nothing good for root crop storage or
even an out-building. the water table here is so high at
times that it's pointless to consider digging anything as it
all has to be above grade, and several feet above grade is
pretty much required in case of flash floods.

> if i put a greenhouse outside and heated it i could do it. but that's a
> faint blip on the outer edge of the radar screen so it's unlikely to
> happen anytime soon, if ever.

it doesn't have to be heated much, just has to keep the
worms from freezing or roasting. oh, that is something to
avoid too.

i got my dentist going on keeping worms because he likes
to fish and he went away one summer and the power went out
on his place, he had a lot of worms in a big tub in his
garage. stunk it up a bit <- understatement... :) if
you've ever fished and left your worms in the sun you know
what i mean...

the other important considerations with worm keeping is
to not introduce invasive species to your area or gardens
and if you are a fisherperson to not introduce them to the
woods or streams just in case your area already has some
unique animals you don't want to mess things up.

songbird

On 2023-01-25, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> fos@sdf.org wrote:
> ...
>> i think it's a great idea too. i mentioned it to my wife and she said if
>> i did it in the house she's moving out. she has a fear of creatures
>> without legs. snakes and worms. it's a deep primal fear. even seeing
>> them on tv triggers her. i told her they'd be covered and wouldn't be
>> able to get out. doesn't matter, she'd know they are there.

> yeah, some people are like that. do you have a spot where
> you can put in an external cellar? like the side of a hill?
> that is something i wish we could have here as we have no
> cellar space at all. nothing good for root crop storage or
> even an out-building. the water table here is so high at
> times that it's pointless to consider digging anything as it
> all has to be above grade, and several feet above grade is
> pretty much required in case of flash floods.

i don't have a place for an external cellar. i have excellent drainage,
just no place to do it and it may even be against municipal ordinances.
doing it outside means in an out building with heat in the winter. i
have some very well shaded areas where they wouldn't get scorched in the
summer. heat wouldn't be a big deal it seems. even in a shed i could box
off an area and use a small ceramic radiant heater. my basement is so
cool when i start seeds at the end of this month i use one in my faux
greenhouse else the heat pads are nearly contently on. i keep my living
space at 63-64F, the basement is mid 50s during single digit cold snaps.

> the other important considerations with worm keeping is
> to not introduce invasive species to your area or gardens
> and if you are a fisherperson to not introduce them to the
> woods or streams just in case your area already has some
> unique animals you don't want to mess things up.

i was warned about invasive (jumping) worms when i contacted the local
agri extension for sources of composted manure. when i got a load i
checked it carefully. used it in my raised beds when i built them. had
spring worms hitch a ride home in a few bags of coca shell mulch. within
days of putting the mulch down we got a heavy rain and when i went in
back to see if any of the flower plants got flattened i was greeted by
zillions of them on top of the mulch. haven't seen them since though.
kind of freaked me out lol.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

fos@sdf.org wrote:
> On 2023-01-25, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>> fos@sdf.org wrote:
>> ...
>>> i think it's a great idea too. i mentioned it to my wife and she said if
>>> i did it in the house she's moving out. she has a fear of creatures
>>> without legs. snakes and worms. it's a deep primal fear. even seeing
>>> them on tv triggers her. i told her they'd be covered and wouldn't be
>>> able to get out. doesn't matter, she'd know they are there.
>
>> yeah, some people are like that. do you have a spot where
>> you can put in an external cellar? like the side of a hill?
>> that is something i wish we could have here as we have no
>> cellar space at all. nothing good for root crop storage or
>> even an out-building. the water table here is so high at
>> times that it's pointless to consider digging anything as it
>> all has to be above grade, and several feet above grade is
>> pretty much required in case of flash floods.
>
> i don't have a place for an external cellar. i have excellent drainage,
> just no place to do it and it may even be against municipal ordinances.

yes, always have to look into the local requirements. for
the south perhaps "storm cellar" would be an alternative
name for it? :)

> doing it outside means in an out building with heat in the winter. i
> have some very well shaded areas where they wouldn't get scorched in the
> summer. heat wouldn't be a big deal it seems. even in a shed i could box
> off an area and use a small ceramic radiant heater. my basement is so
> cool when i start seeds at the end of this month i use one in my faux
> greenhouse else the heat pads are nearly contently on. i keep my living
> space at 63-64F, the basement is mid 50s during single digit cold snaps.

if you are able to get it in enough thermal mass (a big pile
of dirt would work) you should not have to worry as much about
heating or cooling. that is the whole idea of having a root
cellar is that it gets you below the frost line and provides a
consistent cool space. if you have to heat it or cool it then
you're building something else...

>> the other important considerations with worm keeping is
>> to not introduce invasive species to your area or gardens
>> and if you are a fisherperson to not introduce them to the
>> woods or streams just in case your area already has some
>> unique animals you don't want to mess things up.
>
> i was warned about invasive (jumping) worms when i contacted the local
> agri extension for sources of composted manure. when i got a load i
> checked it carefully. used it in my raised beds when i built them. had
> spring worms hitch a ride home in a few bags of coca shell mulch. within
> days of putting the mulch down we got a heavy rain and when i went in
> back to see if any of the flower plants got flattened i was greeted by
> zillions of them on top of the mulch. haven't seen them since though.
> kind of freaked me out lol.

:) worms are interesting creatures.

i find life facinating in all forms. microbiologyy really
is some wild stuff and they're still learning all the time,
like recently they found a bacteria that primarily feeds on
viruses. that's a wild thing to think about. how does it
know? chemistry, physics, etc. all interesting to me too
but i tend too work at the plant and worm level for most of
my gardening.

songbird

On 1/14/2023 5:41 PM, songbird wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 1/11/2023 9:49, songbird wrote:
> ...
>>> any plans there for this coming gardening
>>> season? it is mostly looking like the normal
>>> routine here and i'm quite ok with that!
>>
>> I had a rather small vegetable garden along the side of my hill the last
>> two years, right at the top, and it's always been difficult to tend
>> it... especially trying to get footing while I turn soil over with my
>> old belt-driven rototiller... plus the bricks to keep the dirt from
>> washing down. I live on a fairly steep city lot. I think I might plant
>> a few flowers (I have dahlia tubers, etc.) there this year, and move the
>> vegetables elsewhere.
>
> yes, slopes are always a challenge. i try to plant them
> with thymes and then leave them alone other than keeping
> them weeded. rocks and bricks can make some interesting
> contrasts and help break up any flows that might happen
> during heavier downpours.
>
>
>> There is a flat spot lower on my lot, about the same size (maybe 3 feet
>> wide by 18-20 feet long), where I can easily walk along a wide stone
>> retaining wall to tend the garden. I might take Sheldon's (RFC)
>> suggestion and make a raised bed out of it. Grandpap lived through the
>> depression, and they planted a lot... he strictly advised starting to
>> turn the soil over in late February, as soon as it isn't frozen... we're
>> gaining on that time fast (eastern Ohio). I do have a few tree limbs to
>> cut to take full advantage of the southern exposure.
>
> yeah, trees can become a challenge and they can happen
> gradually enough that you don't notice it until it becomes
> a bigger problem to deal with. i have some trees here that
> i wanted to take out years ago but could not (i'm not the
> owner). such is life...
>
> good luck! :)
>

> songbird

Something my dad used to say, It has been tough sledding this winter -
no snow.

Frank wrote:
....
> Something my dad used to say, It has been tough sledding this winter -
> no snow.

what snow we have now is melting plus a warm enough
forecast it will all be gone. hopefully we'll get
some more cold enough weather to keep the trees from
budding out too early. snow is fine with me. i don't
like what it looks like out there without snow this
time of the year.

in the meantime the deer have been having plenty of
fun out there...

<https://www.anthive.com/img/critters/thm/DSC_20230203_105947-0500_1846_Deer_Tracks_thm.jpg>

songbird