So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
that rally serves no purpose.

There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various
companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping
assembly.

My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle
but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you
still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why
the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool
simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other
type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these
type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have
teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
the joint.

For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things
in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight
stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
of work at a specific angle.

I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the
pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

Thoughts?

On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
> So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
> on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
> Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
> that rally serves no purpose.
I do a lot of picture frames and have made some boxes using this clamp'
veritas-4-way-speed-clamp
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/31162-veritas-4-way-speed-clamp
It is the quickest and easiest clamps I have found.
Since it is basically 1/4-20 threaded rod with the corner clamps, the
system can be expanded with a visit to the hardware store.
Similar systems area available in many places
I have used the system on some quite large frames up to 40" on a side.
As with any frame it is critical that the opposite sides be the exact
length.
I have also used the system to make boxes. I use one set near the
bottom of the sides and a second set near the top.
Once the corner are lined up exactly, the miter angle do the squaring up
the the frame. I always check using a simple square.
I would recommend the system to any one making any thing similar.
Initial cost is similar to other systems. (about $35/set) and since it
breaks down completely storage is simple.

On 2/9/2022 12:34 PM, knuttle wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>> So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's
>> thoughts on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
>> Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
>> that rally serves no purpose.
> I do a lot of picture frames and have made some boxes using this clamp'
> veritas-4-way-speed-clamp
>
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/31162-veritas-4-way-speed-clamp
>
>
> It is the quickest and easiest clamps I have found.
>
> Since it is basically  1/4-20 threaded rod with the corner clamps, the
> system can be expanded with a visit to the hardware store.
>
> Similar systems area available in many places
>
> I have used the system on some quite large frames up to 40" on a side.
> As with any frame it is critical that the opposite sides be the exact
> length.
>
> I have also used the system to make boxes.   I use one set near the
> bottom of the sides and a second set near the top.
>
> Once the corner are lined up exactly, the miter angle do the squaring up
> the the frame. I always check using a simple square.
>
> I would recommend the system to any one making any thing similar.
>
> Initial cost is similar to other systems. (about $35/set) and since it
> breaks down completely storage is simple.
>

Good to know.

Something I just now found, A Rockler tool. It seems to fill the bill
and runs up quite the bill if you get a full set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Snip
>
>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>> of work at a specific angle.
>
> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>

Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
> Snip
> >
> >> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >> of work at a specific angle.
> >
> > I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >
> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum,
the gear is plastic and breaks under use.

On 2/10/2022 1:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> Snip
>>>
>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>
>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>
>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>
> Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum,
> the gear is plastic and breaks under use.

I could not argue with that but it works as advertised. It does what
the vast majority of these type corner clamps don't do, squeeze the
joint together.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
> >On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >
> >Snip
> >>
> >>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>
> >> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> you!
>
> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> the opposite corner?

I had the same thought.

>
> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> going to fix it.

I had the same thought.

The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
in the outer corner. My question is this:

Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:30:02 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/10/2022 1:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Snip
> >>>
> >>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>>
> >>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>>
> >> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> >
> > Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum,
> > the gear is plastic and breaks under use.
> I could not argue with that but it works as advertised. It does what
> the vast majority of these type corner clamps don't do, squeeze the
> joint together.

Until the gear breaks because you are trying to squeeze the joint together. ;-)

On 2/10/2022 5:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> Snip
>>>
>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>
>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>
> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> you!
>
> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> the opposite corner?

Maybe just buy one clamp. LOL

>
> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> going to fix it.

Yup!

On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Snip
>>>>
>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>
>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>> you!
>>
>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>> the opposite corner?
>
> I had the same thought.
>
>>
>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>> going to fix it.
>
> I had the same thought.
>
> The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
> issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
> in the outer corner. My question is this:
>
> Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
> one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?
>
>

One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Snip
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>>>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>>>
> >>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> >> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> >> you!
> >>
> >> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> >> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> >> the opposite corner?
> >
> > I had the same thought.
> >
> >>
> >> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> >> going to fix it.
> >
> > I had the same thought.
> >
> > The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
> > issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
> > in the outer corner. My question is this:
> >
> > Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
> > one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?
> >
> >
> One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.

I don't think I've ever seen Norm use *one* brad. ;-)

On 2/11/2022 3:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>> you!
>>>>
>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>
>>> I had the same thought.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>> going to fix it.
>>>
>>> I had the same thought.
>>>
>>> The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
>>> issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
>>> in the outer corner. My question is this:
>>>
>>> Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
>>> one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?
>>>
>>>
>> One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen Norm use *one* brad. ;-)

He did not have this clamp.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
> >On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >
> >Snip
> >>
> >>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>
> >> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> you!
>
> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> the opposite corner?
>
> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> going to fix it.

Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.

On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Snip
>>>>
>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>
>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>> you!
>>
>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>> the opposite corner?
>>
>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>> going to fix it.
>
> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.

While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
length a perfect miter will not close properly.

On 2/12/2022 10:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Snip
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
>>>>>> angles.
>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>
>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>> you!
>>>
>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>> the opposite corner?
>>>
>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>> going to fix it.
>>
>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
>> wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with. I
>> have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you don't
>> cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>
>
> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
> be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

Even with the most costly equipment, or computer controlled saw cuts,
IF the opposite side are not the same length you will get bad miters.
If you have cut each of the sides to with in 1/32" of each other That
difference is going to make a least 1/16" that is going to appear in one
of the miters.
When making frame I always cut opposite side together. I make the sides
about a 1/4" proud, fasten them together use staples, I trim each end
until they are the proper length.

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Snip
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>>>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>>>
> >>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> >> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> >> you!
> >>
> >> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> >> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> >> the opposite corner?
> >>
> >> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> >> going to fix it.
> >
> > Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
actually made a perfect miter?

Go now and ponder.

On 2/12/2022 11:41 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 10:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
>>>>>>> angles.
>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.
>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
>>>>>>> fit the
>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>> you!
>>>>
>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>
>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>> going to fix it.
>>>
>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
>>> wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with.
>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you
>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>>
>>
>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>> be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>
>
> Even with the most costly equipment, or computer controlled saw cuts, IF
> the opposite side are not the same length you will get bad miters.
>
> If you have cut each of the sides to with in 1/32" of each other That
> difference is going to make a least 1/16" that is going to appear in one
> of the miters.
>
> When making frame I always cut opposite side together.  I make the sides
> about a 1/4" proud, fasten them together use staples, I trim each end
> until they are the proper length.
>
>
>
>
I tend to batch cut using some kind of stop to insure exact length.

On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>> you!
>>>>
>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>
>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>> going to fix it.
>>>
>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>
> Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
> actually made a perfect miter?
>
> Go now and ponder.

Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits
against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back
therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
fit perfectly to the front piece.

On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>> you!
>>>>
>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>
>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>> going to fix it.
>>>
>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>>
>>
>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>
> Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).

I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
painters to caulk and close the miters.

And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.

On 2/12/2022 12:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>>>> you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>>>> going to fix it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>>>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>>>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>>>
>>> Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
>>> actually made a perfect miter?
>>>
>>> Go now and ponder.
>>
>> Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
>> perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.
>>
>> I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits
>> against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back
>> therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
>> fit perfectly to the front piece.
>
> A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
> to be the same length. ;-)

Often used to stretch wood!

On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
>>>>>>>> angles.
>>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.
>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
>>>>>>>> fit the
>>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>>> you!
>>>>>
>>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>>> going to fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
>>>> wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with.
>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you
>>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with
>>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>>> be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>>
>> Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).
>
>
> I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
> painters to caulk and close the miters.
>
> And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.

And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
and Festool saw the problem.
The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.

And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
muding and sanding.

On 2/12/2022 12:51 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:33:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2022 12:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
>>>>>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
>>>>>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
>>>>>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
>>>>>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
>>>>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>>>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>>>>>> you!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>>>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>>>>>> going to fix it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
>>>>>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>>>>>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>>>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
>>>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
>>>>> actually made a perfect miter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Go now and ponder.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
>>>> perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.
>>>>
>>>> I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits
>>>> against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back
>>>> therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
>>>> fit perfectly to the front piece.
>>>
>>> A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
>>> to be the same length. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Often used to stretch wood!
>
> I was going to use those words but thought someone might object. ;-)

I said stretch, not stroke. ;~)

On 2/12/2022 12:59 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:40:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Snip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
>>>>>>>>>> angles.
>>>>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.
>>>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
>>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
>>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
>>>>>>>>>> fit the
>>>>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
>>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
>>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
>>>>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
>>>>>>> you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
>>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
>>>>>>> the opposite corner?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
>>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
>>>>>>> going to fix it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
>>>>>> wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with.
>>>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you
>>>>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
>>>>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
>>>>> be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
>>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
>>>>
>>>> Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).
>>>
>>>
>>> I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
>>> painters to caulk and close the miters.
>>>
>>> And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.
>>
>>
>> And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
>> and Festool saw the problem.
>> The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.
>>
>> When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
>> corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
>> on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
>> comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
>> to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.
>>
>> And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
>> muding and sanding.
>
> That may be a lost cause. It works for out of square corners but
> doesn't work so well if they aren't planar, at least towards the
> corner. A bump is going to screw everything up. Festool makes a tool
> for that, too. ;-)
>
> <https://www.festoolusa.com/products/illuminating/stl-450-inspection-light/201938---stl-450-usa#Overview>

I don't think you will ever see a drywall crew use one of those, they
depend on their texturing guy to hide their ills.

I have seen a lamp, like that one, used to show imperfections in sanding
wood.

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Snip
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
> >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
> >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
> >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
> >>>>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>>>
> >>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
> >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> >> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> >> you!
> >>
> >> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> >> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> >> the opposite corner?
> >>
> >> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> >> going to fix it.
> >
> > Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.
> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It's a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both sides.

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 12:41:10 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Snip
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
> >>>>>>>> angles.
> >>>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.
> >>>>>>>> These
> >>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
> >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
> >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
> >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
> >>>>>>>> fit the
> >>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
> >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
> >>>>>>>> pieces
> >>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think
> >>>>>> about
> >>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
> >>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
> >>>>> Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
> >>>>> you!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
> >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
> >>>>> the opposite corner?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
> >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
> >>>>> going to fix it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
> >>>> wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with.
> >>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you
> >>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with
> >>>> it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
> >>> equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
> >>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
> >>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.
> >>
> >> Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).
> >
> >
> > I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
> > painters to caulk and close the miters.
> >
> > And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.
> And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
> and Festool saw the problem.
> The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.
>
> When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
> corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
> on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
> comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
> to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.
>
> And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
> muding and sanding.

Pssst! Hey buddy, wanta buy some woodpecker steel angle clamps cheap?