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interests / alt.language.latin / Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

SubjectAuthor
* pas trop canonique --- 2 questionshenh...@gmail.com
`* Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionsEd Cryer
 `* Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionshenh...@gmail.com
  `* Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionsEd Cryer
   +* Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionshenh...@gmail.com
   |`- Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionsEd Cryer
   `* Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionsDesidarius
    `- Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questionsEd Cryer

1
pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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Subject: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Thu, 3 Aug 2023 19:46 UTC

( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )

i'm interested in 2 questions:
1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?

2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?

Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.

Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”

---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.

(my trans. uses TOO)
Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”

------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
use of the word [canonique]

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html

Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.

—J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.

Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:

—Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.

Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html

“I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”

The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.

“Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”

___________________________

---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
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 by: Ed Cryer - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:24 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> ( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )
>
>
> i'm interested in 2 questions:
> 1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?
>
> 2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>
> Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>
> ---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.
>
>
> (my trans. uses TOO)
> Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>
> ------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
> use of the word [canonique]
>
>
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html
>
> Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.
>
> —J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>
> Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:
>
> —Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.
>
> Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.
>
>
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html
>
> “I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>
> The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.
>
> “Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”
>
> ___________________________
>
>
> ---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.
>
I can't see any metaphorical usage, but I detect a slight difference in
the French use of "canonical" from English.
Noun - Canon; adjective canonical.
Example. This book isn't in the canon of great literature; it's not
canonical.
The French use "le canon" and "canonique" similarly, but one particular
French phrase will highlight a slightly different meaning;
d’âge canonique (of a venerable age). I've never heard English "of a
canonical age".
And so the Stendhal usage appears to mean something like "it's not the
greatest of gifts" or "it's not too venerable".
As for "unduly" I find that acceptable. Not too great; not unduly great;
not of the best; nothing to holler about; etc.
Ed

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 16:11 UTC

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 1:26:49 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > ( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )
> >
> >
> > i'm interested in 2 questions:
> > 1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?
> >
> > 2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
> >
> > Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus..”
> >
> > ---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.
> >
> >
> > (my trans. uses TOO)
> > Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
> >
> > ------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
> > use of the word [canonique]
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html
> >
> > Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.
> >
> > —J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
> >
> > Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:
> >
> > —Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.
> >
> > Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html
> >
> > “I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
> >
> > The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity.. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.
> >
> > “Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”
> >
> > ___________________________
> >
> >
> > ---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.
> >
> I can't see any metaphorical usage, but I detect a slight difference in
> the French use of "canonical" from English.
>
> Noun - Canon; adjective canonical.
> Example. This book isn't in the canon of great literature; it's not
> canonical.
>
> The French use "le canon" and "canonique" similarly, but one particular
> French phrase will highlight a slightly different meaning;
> d’âge canonique (of a venerable age). I've never heard English "of a
> canonical age".
>
> And so the Stendhal usage appears to mean something like "it's not the
> greatest of gifts" or "it's not too venerable".
>
> As for "unduly" I find that acceptable. Not too great; not unduly great;
> not of the best; nothing to holler about; etc.
>
> Ed

hello.... thank you

i think the term [canonical age] was more commonly used 50 years ago.

>>> This age was variously called the age of consent , aetas nubilis , canonical age, pubertas and perfecta aetas . On valid marriage in general , note that in the later medieval period the Lombard , or Parisian , theory of marriage ...

>>> As we have seen , the age for the reception of confirmation in the Roman Catholic dioceses of the United States today varies from age seven , the traditional " canonical " age , all the way to age eighteen , with the majority of ...

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

<uajji6$1d0nc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
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 by: Ed Cryer - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 19:28 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 1:26:49 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> ( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )
>>>
>>>
>>> i'm interested in 2 questions:
>>> 1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?
>>>
>>> 2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>>>
>>> Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>
>>> ---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.
>>>
>>>
>>> (my trans. uses TOO)
>>> Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>
>>> ------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
>>> use of the word [canonique]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html
>>>
>>> Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.
>>>
>>> —J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>>>
>>> Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:
>>>
>>> —Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.
>>>
>>> Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html
>>>
>>> “I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>
>>> The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.
>>>
>>> “Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”
>>>
>>> ___________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.
>>>
>> I can't see any metaphorical usage, but I detect a slight difference in
>> the French use of "canonical" from English.
>>
>> Noun - Canon; adjective canonical.
>> Example. This book isn't in the canon of great literature; it's not
>> canonical.
>>
>> The French use "le canon" and "canonique" similarly, but one particular
>> French phrase will highlight a slightly different meaning;
>> d’âge canonique (of a venerable age). I've never heard English "of a
>> canonical age".
>>
>> And so the Stendhal usage appears to mean something like "it's not the
>> greatest of gifts" or "it's not too venerable".
>>
>> As for "unduly" I find that acceptable. Not too great; not unduly great;
>> not of the best; nothing to holler about; etc.
>>
>> Ed
>
>
> hello.... thank you
>
> i think the term [canonical age] was more commonly used 50 years ago.
>
>
>>>> This age was variously called the age of consent , aetas nubilis , canonical age, pubertas and perfecta aetas . On valid marriage in general , note that in the later medieval period the Lombard , or Parisian , theory of marriage ...
>
>
>>>> As we have seen , the age for the reception of confirmation in the Roman Catholic dioceses of the United States today varies from age seven , the traditional " canonical " age , all the way to age eighteen , with the majority of ...
>
It's the gift here that's being called canonical, not Tacitus.
Since ancient days the works of Tacitus and Suetonius have been
canonical. They follow in the footsteps of Stoics, Cynics and even
Epicureans in condemning the world of men and their leaders. There's a
moral platform from which to look down on the world, like St Paul
preaching to the Gentiles.
And they weren't the first. The Greeks produced many before them, and
the Jewish histories are crammed with dissenting prophets.
Move across to China and you find lots more.
I grew up in the age of Western hippies. We fought for emancipation of
the body against the dictates of morality. At the time I thought we were
the first; subsequently I've discovered that every new generation has
fought for the same, like trees in a forest competing to get to the
canopy where the sun's rays will vitalise you.
In old age I feel to have reconciled these two warring factions; but I
doubt that younger people will grant acceptance.
Ed

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 19:44 UTC

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:29:13 PM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 1:26:49 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> >> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> ( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> i'm interested in 2 questions:
> >>> 1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?
> >>>
> >>> 2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
> >>>
> >>> Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
> >>>
> >>> ---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> (my trans. uses TOO)
> >>> Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
> >>>
> >>> ------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
> >>> use of the word [canonique]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html
> >>>
> >>> Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.
> >>>
> >>> —J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
> >>>
> >>> Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:
> >>>
> >>> —Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.
> >>>
> >>> Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html
> >>>
> >>> “I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
> >>>
> >>> The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.
> >>>
> >>> “Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”
> >>>
> >>> ___________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.
> >>>
> >> I can't see any metaphorical usage, but I detect a slight difference in
> >> the French use of "canonical" from English.
> >>
> >> Noun - Canon; adjective canonical.
> >> Example. This book isn't in the canon of great literature; it's not
> >> canonical.
> >>
> >> The French use "le canon" and "canonique" similarly, but one particular
> >> French phrase will highlight a slightly different meaning;
> >> d’âge canonique (of a venerable age). I've never heard English "of a
> >> canonical age".
> >>
> >> And so the Stendhal usage appears to mean something like "it's not the
> >> greatest of gifts" or "it's not too venerable".
> >>
> >> As for "unduly" I find that acceptable. Not too great; not unduly great;
> >> not of the best; nothing to holler about; etc.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >
> >
> > hello.... thank you
> >
> > i think the term [canonical age] was more commonly used 50 years ago.
> >
> >
> >>>> This age was variously called the age of consent , aetas nubilis , canonical age, pubertas and perfecta aetas . On valid marriage in general , note that in the later medieval period the Lombard , or Parisian , theory of marriage ...
> >
> >
> >>>> As we have seen , the age for the reception of confirmation in the Roman Catholic dioceses of the United States today varies from age seven , the traditional " canonical " age , all the way to age eighteen , with the majority of ...
> >
> It's the gift here that's being called canonical, not Tacitus.
>
> Since ancient days the works of Tacitus and Suetonius have been
> canonical.

maybe that's a "pun" and there may be another pun in :

Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.

> I grew up in the age of Western hippies. We fought for emancipation of
> the body against the dictates of morality.

(that sounds like Allan Bloom)

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 21:09:13 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Fri, 4 Aug 2023 20:09 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:29:13 PM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 1:26:49 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> ( Stendhal, Le Rouge et le Noir. )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm interested in 2 questions:
>>>>> 1. is the trans. [unduly] a bit off ?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. is the use of the word [canonique] here slightly metaphoric (non-literal) ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------- [unduly] seems wrong to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (my trans. uses TOO)
>>>>> Although the gift is not too canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------ here i'm sensing a metaphoric (non-literal)
>>>>> use of the word [canonique]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/798/pg798-images.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien répondit avec candeur, à l'étonnement de son évoque, que cet auteur ne se trouvait pas dans la bibliothèque du séminaire.
>>>>>
>>>>> —J'en suis vraiment bien aise, dit l'évêque gaiement. Vous me tirez d'embarras depuis dix minutes, je cherche le moyen de vous remercier de la soirée aimable que vous m'avez procurée, et certes de manière bien imprévue. Je ne m'attendais pas à trouver un docteur dans un élève de mon séminaire. Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le prélat se fit apporter huit volumes supérieurement reliés, et voulut écrire lui-même, sur le titre du premier un compliment latin pour Julien Sorel. L'évêque se piquait de belle latinité; il finit par lui dire, d'un ton sérieux, qui tranchait tout à fait avec celui du reste de la conversation:
>>>>>
>>>>> —Jeune homme, si vous êtes sage, vous aurez un jour la meilleure cure de mon diocèse, et pas à cent lieues de mon palais épiscopal; mais il faut être sage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien, chargé de ses volumes, sortit de l'évêché fort étonné, comme minuit sonnait.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/44747/pg44747-images.html
>>>>>
>>>>> “I am truly very glad,” said the Bishop gaily, “You relieve me of an embarrassment. I have been trying for the last five minutes to find a way of thanking you for the charming evening which you have given me in a way that I could certainly never have expected. I did not anticipate finding a teacher in a pupil in my seminary. Although the gift is not unduly canonical, I want to give you a Tacitus.”
>>>>>
>>>>> The prelate had eight volumes in a superior binding fetched for him, and insisted on writing himself on the title page of the first volume a Latin compliment to Julien Sorel. The Bishop plumed himself on his fine Latinity. He finished by saying to him in a serious tone, which completely clashed with the rest of the conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> “Young man, if you are good, you will have one day the best living in my diocese, and one not a hundred leagues from my episcopal palace, but you must be good.”
>>>>>
>>>>> ___________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- i also noticed that the paragraph breaks didn't match.
>>>>>
>>>> I can't see any metaphorical usage, but I detect a slight difference in
>>>> the French use of "canonical" from English.
>>>>
>>>> Noun - Canon; adjective canonical.
>>>> Example. This book isn't in the canon of great literature; it's not
>>>> canonical.
>>>>
>>>> The French use "le canon" and "canonique" similarly, but one particular
>>>> French phrase will highlight a slightly different meaning;
>>>> d’âge canonique (of a venerable age). I've never heard English "of a
>>>> canonical age".
>>>>
>>>> And so the Stendhal usage appears to mean something like "it's not the
>>>> greatest of gifts" or "it's not too venerable".
>>>>
>>>> As for "unduly" I find that acceptable. Not too great; not unduly great;
>>>> not of the best; nothing to holler about; etc.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>> hello.... thank you
>>>
>>> i think the term [canonical age] was more commonly used 50 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> This age was variously called the age of consent , aetas nubilis , canonical age, pubertas and perfecta aetas . On valid marriage in general , note that in the later medieval period the Lombard , or Parisian , theory of marriage ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> As we have seen , the age for the reception of confirmation in the Roman Catholic dioceses of the United States today varies from age seven , the traditional " canonical " age , all the way to age eighteen , with the majority of ...
>>>
>> It's the gift here that's being called canonical, not Tacitus.
>>
>> Since ancient days the works of Tacitus and Suetonius have been
>> canonical.
>
>
> maybe that's a "pun" and there may be another pun in :
>
> Quoique le don ne soit pas trop canonique, je veux vous donner un Tacite.
>
>
>
>> I grew up in the age of Western hippies. We fought for emancipation of
>> the body against the dictates of morality.
>
> (that sounds like Allan Bloom)
Let me give you an image to ponder on and rest a while.
St Paul on the steps of the Temple of Diana at Ephesus, preaching moral
rectitude and faithfulness to God.
Stay a while and look around him. Look into the temple, look into the
cult of Diana, look where Paul came from and the ethical code that ruled
there.
Is it ancient? Has it gone from our culture? Has it been superseded with
something else?
No! By no means. It's still with us.
Society at large needs individuals to suppress their basic instincts.
And why? So that children can be well cared for. So that our genes can
be successfully propagated. To put it into Freudian language it's the
ego versus the super-ego.
Ed
P.S. Who the devil is Allan Bloom?

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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From: desidar...@free.fr (Desidarius)
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Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 07:57:07 +0200
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 by: Desidarius - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 05:57 UTC

Le 04/08/2023 à 21:28, Ed Cryer a écrit :
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]

> I grew up in the age of Western hippies. We fought for emancipation of
> the body against the dictates of morality. At the time I thought we were
> the first; subsequently I've discovered that every new generation has
> fought for the same, like trees in a forest competing to get to the
> canopy where the sun's rays will vitalise you.
>
> In old age I feel to have reconciled these two warring factions; but I
> doubt that younger people will grant acceptance.
>
> Ed
>

:) ++

"N'oubliez jamais", Joe Cocker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeF0FnGu1o4

Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: pas trop canonique --- 2 questions
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 11:35:54 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Sat, 5 Aug 2023 10:35 UTC

Desidarius wrote:
> Le 04/08/2023 à 21:28, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> [..]
>
>> I grew up in the age of Western hippies. We fought for emancipation of
>> the body against the dictates of morality. At the time I thought we
>> were the first; subsequently I've discovered that every new generation
>> has fought for the same, like trees in a forest competing to get to
>> the canopy where the sun's rays will vitalise you.
>>
>> In old age I feel to have reconciled these two warring factions; but I
>> doubt that younger people will grant acceptance.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> :) ++
>
> "N'oubliez jamais", Joe Cocker:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeF0FnGu1o4
Nice one! That's new to me but it's got lots of style.
It immediately made me think of a Cat Stevens song (now Yusuf Islam);
https://youtu.be/P6zaCV4niKk
Ed

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