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interests / alt.language.latin / Re: Absolute construction

SubjectAuthor
* Absolute constructionhenh...@gmail.com
`* Re: Absolute constructionEd Cryer
 `* Re: Absolute constructionDesidarius
  `* Re: Absolute constructionEd Cryer
   +* Re: Absolute constructionhenh...@gmail.com
   |`- Re: Absolute constructionEd Cryer
   `* Re: Absolute constructionDesidarius
    `- Re: Absolute constructionEd Cryer

1
Absolute construction

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Subject: Absolute construction
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 20:51 UTC

re: the word [absolute],
i'm most familiar with the
notions of [absolute temperature], [absolute Zero], etc.

or [absolute value] in math

if i knew (more) Latin, the following sense would make more sense.

________________________________________

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_construction
The term absolute derives from Latin absolūtum, meaning "loosened from" or "separated".[5]

"absolute phrase"
"absolute clause"

------------- omg... Maybe i've heard this in High School,
but if i had, i've forgotten

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_construction

1. [Bored, I turned on the TV.] ---
2. [He opened the door, holding a book] --- what's the name of this
construction?

The construction you have provided is called an "absolute
phrase". It is a type of phrase that is not grammatically connected to
the rest of the sentence. Absolute phrases typically come at the
beginning or end of a sentence and provide additional information
about the subject of the sentence.

In your first example, the absolute phrase is "Bored."
The participle "bored" modifies the subject of the sentence, "I."
The absolute phrase tells us that the speaker was bored before they
turned on the TV.

In your second example, the absolute phrase is "holding a book."
The participle "holding" modifies the subject of the sentence, "he." The
absolute phrase tells us that the man was holding a book when he
opened the door.

Absolute phrases can be used to add variety and interest to your
writing. They can also be used to create suspense or surprise.

Here are some more examples of absolute phrases:

--- Tired from the long day, she fell asleep on the couch.

--- The cat, chasing a butterfly, ran into the wall.

--- The old man, with a twinkle in his eye, told us a story.

Re: Absolute construction

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 09:35:38 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Sat, 12 Aug 2023 08:35 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> re: the word [absolute],
> i'm most familiar with the
> notions of [absolute temperature], [absolute Zero], etc.
>
> or [absolute value] in math
>
>
> if i knew (more) Latin, the following sense would make more sense.
>
> ________________________________________
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_construction
> The term absolute derives from Latin absolūtum, meaning "loosened from" or "separated".[5]
>
>
> "absolute phrase"
> "absolute clause"
>
> ------------- omg... Maybe i've heard this in High School,
> but if i had, i've forgotten
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_construction
>
>
> 1. [Bored, I turned on the TV.] ---
> 2. [He opened the door, holding a book] --- what's the name of this
> construction?
>
>
> The construction you have provided is called an "absolute
> phrase". It is a type of phrase that is not grammatically connected to
> the rest of the sentence. Absolute phrases typically come at the
> beginning or end of a sentence and provide additional information
> about the subject of the sentence.
>
>
>
> In your first example, the absolute phrase is "Bored."
> The participle "bored" modifies the subject of the sentence, "I."
> The absolute phrase tells us that the speaker was bored before they
> turned on the TV.
>
>
> In your second example, the absolute phrase is "holding a book."
> The participle "holding" modifies the subject of the sentence, "he." The
> absolute phrase tells us that the man was holding a book when he
> opened the door.
>
> Absolute phrases can be used to add variety and interest to your
> writing. They can also be used to create suspense or surprise.
>
>
> Here are some more examples of absolute phrases:
>
> --- Tired from the long day, she fell asleep on the couch.
>
> --- The cat, chasing a butterfly, ran into the wall.
>
> --- The old man, with a twinkle in his eye, told us a story.
He opened the door, holding a book
Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
Ed

Re: Absolute construction

<ubapta$1s470$1@dont-email.me>

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From: desidar...@free.fr (Desidarius)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:42:13 +0200
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 by: Desidarius - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 14:42 UTC

Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]

> He opened the door, holding a book
> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
>
> Ed
>

Why did you add "manu"?
"To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?

Sincerely

Re: Absolute construction

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:00:26 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:00 UTC

Desidarius wrote:
> Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> [..]
>
>> He opened the door, holding a book
>> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> Why did you add "manu"?
> "To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?
>
> Sincerely
I really don't know. I asked myself the same question when I wrote it. I
had a feeling, I think, that without the "manu" then the "librum tenens"
sounds instrumental in the door-opening.
But I can see now that that's just misguided.
Try other sentences;
Librum tenebat cum ianuam aperuit.
Eodem tempore ianuam aperuit et librum tenuit.
Una manu ianuam aperuit, altera librum tenuit
Eadem manu ianuam aperuit qua librum tenebat.
No, I'm on some loony side-track here.
(:-

Ed

Re: Absolute construction

<c2bacde2-8632-47f0-a132-94060342564cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Absolute construction
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:21 UTC

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 9:01:17 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Desidarius wrote:
> > Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
> >> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > [..]
> >
> >> He opened the door, holding a book
> >> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.

i see... that's an i (as in ianuam, and not L)

as in janitor -- Latin ianitor (“doorkeeper”).

also related to Ianus

> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >
> > Why did you add "manu"?
> > "To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?

> I really don't know. I asked myself the same question when I wrote it. I
> had a feeling, I think, that without the "manu" then the "librum tenens"
> sounds instrumental in the door-opening.

He opened the door, holding a book.
He opened the door, using a ....
He opened the door, penetrating with a ....
He opened the door, adorned with a ....
He opened the door, decorated with a ....

He opened the door, holding a book. ------- i suppose it's possible to interpret this S as... [a door has a pocket-like compartment or component and it's holding a book].

Re: Absolute construction

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:18:58 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Sun, 13 Aug 2023 18:18 UTC

henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 9:01:17 AM UTC-7, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Desidarius wrote:
>>> Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>>>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> [..]
>>>
>>>> He opened the door, holding a book
>>>> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
>
>
> i see... that's an i (as in ianuam, and not L)
>
> as in janitor -- Latin ianitor (“doorkeeper”).
>
> also related to Ianus
>
>
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why did you add "manu"?
>>> "To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?
>
>> I really don't know. I asked myself the same question when I wrote it. I
>> had a feeling, I think, that without the "manu" then the "librum tenens"
>> sounds instrumental in the door-opening.
>
>
> He opened the door, holding a book.
> He opened the door, using a ....
> He opened the door, penetrating with a ....
> He opened the door, adorned with a ....
> He opened the door, decorated with a ....
>
> He opened the door, holding a book. ------- i suppose it's possible to interpret this S as... [a door has a pocket-like compartment or component and it's holding a book].
>
Notice how a little comma changes the meaning.
He opened the door, holding a book.
Ianuam aperuit, librum tenens
He opened the door holding a book.
Ianuam aperuit librum tenentem.
Ed

Re: Absolute construction

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From: desidar...@free.fr (Desidarius)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:02:43 +0200
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 by: Desidarius - Mon, 14 Aug 2023 04:02 UTC

Le 13/08/2023 à 18:00, Ed Cryer a écrit :
> Desidarius wrote:
>> Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>> [..]
>>
>>> He opened the door, holding a book
>>> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>
>> Why did you add "manu"?
>> "To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?
>>
>> Sincerely
>
> I really don't know. I asked myself the same question when I wrote it. I
> had a feeling, I think, that without the "manu" then the "librum tenens"
> sounds instrumental in the door-opening.
> But I can see now that that's just misguided.
>
> Try other sentences;
> Librum tenebat cum ianuam aperuit.
> Eodem tempore ianuam aperuit et librum tenuit.
> Una manu ianuam aperuit, altera librum tenuit
> Eadem manu ianuam aperuit qua librum tenebat.
>
> No, I'm on some loony side-track here.
> (:-
>
>
> Ed

As we live in time of automation:
Librum utraque manu tenebat, cum ianua se aperiebat.

Just a joke.

Re: Absolute construction

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.language.latin
Subject: Re: Absolute construction
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 09:00:26 +0100
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 by: Ed Cryer - Mon, 14 Aug 2023 08:00 UTC

Desidarius wrote:
> Le 13/08/2023 à 18:00, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>> Desidarius wrote:
>>> Le 12/08/2023 à 10:35, Ed Cryer a écrit :
>>>> henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> [..]
>>>
>>>> He opened the door, holding a book
>>>> Ianuam aperuit, librum manu tenens.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why did you add "manu"?
>>> "To hold" in english is more that "tenere"?
>>>
>>> Sincerely
>>
>> I really don't know. I asked myself the same question when I wrote it.
>> I had a feeling, I think, that without the "manu" then the "librum
>> tenens" sounds instrumental in the door-opening.
>> But I can see now that that's just misguided.
>>
>> Try other sentences;
>> Librum tenebat cum ianuam aperuit.
>> Eodem tempore ianuam aperuit et librum tenuit.
>> Una manu ianuam aperuit, altera librum tenuit
>> Eadem manu ianuam aperuit qua librum tenebat.
>>
>> No, I'm on some loony side-track here.
>> (:-
>>
>>
>> Ed
>
> As we live in time of automation:
> Librum utraque manu tenebat, cum ianua se aperiebat.
>
> Just a joke.
This thread, for all its waywardness, has turned into a pretty good
exploration of Latin word inflections. Instead of seeming antique and
quaint, they now look very useful means of avoiding ambiguity.
And now for that absolute so beloved of the Roman prose-writers,
ablative absolute.
Ianuam aperuit, libro tenente;
which can mean (I believe) "while the book was holding the door" or
"while the book prevailed".
Ed

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