On Thursday, October 20, 2011 at 11:14:14 AM UTC-7, jeffery...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been trying to figure out the ancestry of Alice Bradshaigh, wife
> of Sir John St. John, K.B., son of Sir Oliver St. John and Margaret
> Beauchamp, and half-brother of Lady Margaret Beaufort, and am
> wondering in anyone else on the list has looked into this.
>
> There seems to be near universal agreement that Alice was the daughter
> of Thomas (sometimes referred to as Sir Thomas, but I have no proof,
> one way or the other, as to whether or not he was indeed a knight)
> Bradshaigh (or Bradshaw) of Haigh, but that's about the only thing I
> can find any consensus on.
>
> The VCH Lancaster (vol.4, pp. 115-118) provides what appears to be a
> fairly solid sketch of the family over many generations, so based
> upon that, it appears that the only Thomas who was heir to Haigh,
> would have to be the Thomas who was born ca. 1368 and died sometime
> after 1425. Chronologically that would seem to be an okay fit, as
> long as Alice was either born late in his life, or if she was a wee
> bit older than her husband. Many sources identify Alice' mother as
> being a Sherburne, but the VCH indicates that James Bradshaigh (d.
> 1442), Thomas Bradshaigh's son and heir, was the son of Margaret de
> Highfield. Has anyone been able to determine whether or not Thomas
> Bradshaigh was ever married to a member of the Sherburne family,
> and/or if Margaret de Highfield was a second wife? The VCH also seems
> to indicate that Thomas had at least two other sons, Christopher and
> Gilbert.
>
> Following the VCH, Thomas is identified as the son of William (d.
> 1380), who left a widow, Isabel, who was still alive as late as 1398
> (but no indication as to whether or not Thomas was Isabel's son or
> step-son). William is theorized to have been the son of an elder
> William, son of John Bradshaigh, who was one of the two nephews of Sir
> William Bradshaigh and his wife Mabel de Norreys, who were Sir
> William's heirs; William receiving Haigh and the other nephew, Roger
> son of Richard Bradshaigh, receiving Blackrod.
>
> And that's pretty much as far as I've been able to go. There's a
> great deal of additional information out there, but very little of it
> is sourced.
>
> If anyone can expand upon this, correct it, or even just confirm (or
> deny) that this matches their own research, I would appreciate hearing
> from you.
>
> Jeff Duvall
>
> jef...@iquest.net
> jdu...@iupui.edu
>
>
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Hi,

I know I am coming into this conversation late. Jeff, are you still there and searching for the Bradshaw (various spellings) ancestors of Alice Bradshaw who married John St. John? I am researching the same family and have run into the same trouble identifying the connection of Thomas Bradshaw (Alice's father) to the William Bradshaw who married Mabel Norris and brought the manor of Haigh (and Blackrod) into the Bradshaw family. I am wondering if you have made more progress than in your 2011 post. Of, if anybody else can contribute the the discussion, please do so.

Clearly, William Bradshaw who married Mabel is not in Alice's direct ancestral line as they apparently both died childless and Mabel ended up giving the two manors to her deceased husband's nephews, the manor of Haigh was given to William Bradshaw, son of John Bradshaw and the manor of Blackrod was given to Roger Bradshaw, son of Richard Bradshaw. Since three of the Visitations discussed by Douglas Richardson in his post to this conversation identify Thomas Bradshaw (Alice's father) as "of Haigh/Haw/Hawe" I presume that he descends from John Bradshaw through his son William Bradshaw who received Haigh from Mabel. John St. John, Alice's husband, was born circa 1426 so I presume Alice would not be older than her husband. Wikitree list Thomas Bradshaw (Alice's father) as born circa 1390. Geni list Thomas Bradshaw (Alice's father) as born circa 1405. Neither birth date is sourced. The date range of 1390-1405 seems to be a reasonable dates range for Thomas Bradshaw's birth, with a lean toward 1405. It seems to me that there should be 2-4 more generations between William Bradshaw (John's son; Mabel's assumed nephew) and Thomas Bradshaw (Alice's father).

Bob Allen